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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
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CCP Tanis.

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Posted - 2008.11.19 14:44:00 -
[1]
Howdy folks,
Since the release of Quantum Rise on TQ there have been some issues with client latency and response times, particularly with fleet fights. We take this issue very seriously and as a result, our engineering team has been in high-gear working on fixing the problem and we think we are close, but we need your help.
We have a few potential changes that we think may fix the problem, but we want to put these changes through a few proper fleet fights to see which one works the best. To that end we will be running a series of fleet fights on our main test server, Singularity.
These test are already under way, but the more people who show up, the better. We need at least 50 pilots, preferably 200+.
Test schedule:
Wednesday @ 11:00 GMT Wednesday @ 15:00 GMT Thursday @ 11:00 GMT Thrusday @ 15:00 GMT (Pending results of other tests)
If you want to join in do the following:
- Make a copy of the current Tranquility (TQ) client
- Visit the Sisi patch page.
- Patch the copied client to the Singularity build
- Login to the singularity test server
- Join the in-game channel "TanisFleet"
- Fit yourself with a battleship, close range setup with drones and use weapon grouping
- Listen for instructions and ask questions in-channel
____________________________ I break things.
Tanis. Testing Lead - Engineering Services EVE Online CCP Games
"So let me get this straight; you want to fly on a magic carpet, to see the king of the potato people and plead with him for your freedom; and you're telling me you're completely sane?!" |
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sAyArrrr
Minmatar Omyst Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.19 15:11:00 -
[2]
Ill be there! \ / |

Umbriele
Gallente Insurgent New Eden Tribe Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2008.11.19 15:18:00 -
[3]
I have a better idea, reverse TQ to empyrean age, the very few new "features" of QR are useless anyway (i.e. the new reactions)
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Isaak
eXceed Inc. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.19 15:22:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Umbriele I have a better idea, reverse TQ to empyrean age, the very few new "features" of QR are useless anyway (i.e. the new reactions)
hush bad troll, let the men in charge fix it. [QR is cool, without client issues it'll be even better] |

DEATHCLAIMER27
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Posted - 2008.11.19 15:22:00 -
[5]
Im having problems just trying to run two clients without lagging out ive had too turn down all my setting i have a nvidia 8600 gt and normaly it runs great but not since the expansion for some reason. Its not a bit problem to turn down my setting but i thought i should let someone know. |

Anderson
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.19 15:23:00 -
[6]
I vote for RMR rollback personally. Pre-WTZ and then just let it be.
I'll try to be there today :) Did they mirror SiSi? |

Cyron Tout
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Posted - 2008.11.19 15:27:00 -
[7]
Just tried to jump into the TanisFleet channel. Uh oh, you crashed teh channel! "You cannot join the channel because it is overloaded. Due to scalability issues, at most 50 users are allowed at any given time on a channel that is configured with Immediate-mode memberlist management."
Might wanna fix that.
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Limbeck
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Posted - 2008.11.19 15:43:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Limbeck on 19/11/2008 15:44:02
Originally by: Cyron Tout Just tried to jump into the TanisFleet channel. Uh oh, you crashed teh channel! "You cannot join the channel because it is overloaded. Due to scalability issues, at most 50 users are allowed at any given time on a channel that is configured with Immediate-mode memberlist management."
Might wanna fix that.
That's a channel setting... an op needs to set the "member list" setting to Delayed mode. (it's under settings -> General) I believe that limitation has been around for a while...
Thanks for fixing the lag issues. |
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CCP Lingorm
C C P

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Posted - 2008.11.19 15:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cyron Tout Just tried to jump into the TanisFleet channel. Uh oh, you crashed teh channel! "You cannot join the channel because it is overloaded. Due to scalability issues, at most 50 users are allowed at any given time on a channel that is configured with Immediate-mode memberlist management."
Might wanna fix that.
Should be fixed now.
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Cyron Tout
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Posted - 2008.11.19 15:47:00 -
[10]
Hrm looks like i just missed the action. But it seemed like chaos. Did you want any testing data from our end? Run logserver or supply PC stats etc?
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.11.19 16:00:00 -
[11]
Not Found
The requested URL /test/evepremiumpatch69793-69855_test.exe was not found on this server. |
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CCP Tanis.

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Posted - 2008.11.19 16:12:00 -
[12]
Your best option is to copy the current TQ client and then use the TQ to Sisi patch.
Note that there will be a new client-patch tomorrow!
I will post a link tomorrow morning once we've finished building the new test client. |
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TOTALHELLDEATH
Caldari Stellar Convertors
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Posted - 2008.11.19 16:16:00 -
[13]
Originally by: CCP Tanis. Your best option is to copy the current TQ client and then use the TQ to Sisi patch.
Note that there will be a new client-patch tomorrow!
I will post a link tomorrow morning once we've finished building the new test client.
was your first test a success? did you get enough people together for a test? |
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GM Retrofire
Game Masters

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Posted - 2008.11.19 16:19:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cyron Tout Hrm looks like i just missed the action. But it seemed like chaos. Did you want any testing data from our end? Run logserver or supply PC stats etc?
Yes please use Logserver every time you file a bug report.
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StinGer ShoGuN
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Posted - 2008.11.19 16:21:00 -
[15]
Okay so for me, the test was quite laggy. During the first battle, I could not do anything, I had 1 frame each 2 or 3 seconds. I know my computer is not a high performance PC (XP3000+ + 1Go RAM + GeForceFX 5900 Ultra). And moreover, clicking took hours as well as damage counting (in both way done and received) : I didn't see any progression on my shield destruction. Once damages were applied, I had lost my shield and part of my armor. But I couldn't enable repairing and tanking modules : too laggy for me. And even when I suceeded in activating one, it took something like 2 sec before being in action. I really was totally unable to play. When there were less people in the next fights, everything was going a little better (more FPS, no modules lagging, no damages lagging).
That's all for me, I hope this will help you !
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.11.19 16:21:00 -
[16]
The logs show nothing, please go about your business.
Thank you.
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Mike Leidesdorff
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Posted - 2008.11.19 16:22:00 -
[17]
it be nice that you update the accont on test server i could cme test it 
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Sally Bestonge
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.19 16:23:00 -
[18]
Weapon grouping can cause crazy mysterious lag please look at this on sisi.
Also any un-reinforced node totally ****s itself when people use large amount of fighters on anything please look at this.
After the client has been running for ~ 1 hour or so in a fleet fight the client often times just stops working properly and requires a relog to fix it most likely a memory leak.
Your 2D Brackets systems is incredibly slow when there are many objects on gird ( outline boxes ).
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Doctor Penguin
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.19 16:59:00 -
[19]
It might just be that they were collating information for a standard fleet battle, before applying a fix. But it would be nice to know roughly what CCP are doing! |

Kateryne
Minmatar purple pot hogs
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Posted - 2008.11.19 17:02:00 -
[20]
From my end of things there wasn't too much lag, but then i have a beast of a machine and i wasn't running much in the background. That and what Tanis and Arotoxi discussed with us suggests its more of a visual thing, not an actual high ping lag. |

S3RGEANT
Gallente Final-Solution space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.11.19 17:17:00 -
[21]
why fleet fights?? this lag problem happens after about half an hour regardless of whether your near 1 ship or 100s...
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.11.19 17:22:00 -
[22]
Originally by: GM Retrofire
Originally by: Cyron Tout Hrm looks like i just missed the action. But it seemed like chaos. Did you want any testing data from our end? Run logserver or supply PC stats etc?
Yes please use Logserver every time you file a bug report.
I have never used logserver in any of my bug reports. Never will.
The moment bug reports require logserver is the day I never log into bug reporting area again. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. |

Rin Kaeda
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.11.19 17:24:00 -
[23]
At the official fight I had brackets showing in space and got lagged to hell and back.
Then afterwards I flew with brackets turned off = no lag to mention of.
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Volky
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Posted - 2008.11.19 17:48:00 -
[24]
well if you sincronise mine acc i will try to help alredy few days and i can't log in the test servers that need to be fixed to begin whith like if you reactivate acc you don't wait more that 36h i think syncro every 3 days is alredy long.
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Raneru
Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2008.11.19 18:00:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Sally Bestonge
Your 2D Brackets systems is incredibly slow when there are many objects on gird ( outline boxes ).
I've always wanted to know why displaying several hundred small 2d shapes seems to bring our client to its knees, but doing whizzy premium gfx ships it has no trouble with... |

Atharax
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Posted - 2008.11.19 18:00:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Atharax on 19/11/2008 18:02:16 Hello Tanis
I will try to join up tomorrow. Could be a bit of fun also, but most importantly is that we need to get the game on track. There are more issues than the ones you mentioned here afraid to say. But small bugs that seem to eat system resources are one concern of mine, be certain of that.
Edit: In response to S3RGEANT - yes that's what I see also, in about same time, and I am personally certain its a memoryleak.
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criminal69
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Posted - 2008.11.19 18:02:00 -
[27]
HI there!!!!! i've got a problem when i try to log in to singularity for mac, it's says that my username or password is incorrect....i check it and i don't understand..... plz help me.... |

Daoi Sith
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Posted - 2008.11.19 18:10:00 -
[28]
why fleet fights?? this lag problem happens after about half an hour regardless of whether your near 1 ship or 100s... - S3RGEANT
^^ this
a better test is to log in for 2 hours, then do the test
the client will be throwing up all over itself by then
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Tuttomenui II
Gallente kungfuhammers
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Posted - 2008.11.19 18:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: criminal69 HI there!!!!! i've got a problem when i try to log in to singularity for mac, it's says that my username or password is incorrect....i check it and i don't understand..... plz help me....
If you changed your passward recently after the server was mirrored you will need to use your old passward to login to SISI I had this problem the first time i tried using SISI a couple months ago. |

Nullshadow
Minmatar Blue Phoenix Productions
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Posted - 2008.11.19 18:28:00 -
[30]
Is there a standard system where tests are conducted? I would like to help out but these are slightly awkward times for me, so ideally I would like to get myself prepped in advance as much as possible (i.e. right place and setup on Sisi today, right place on live today in case of a re-mirroring before tomorrow). |

NightmareX
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.19 18:29:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Originally by: GM Retrofire
Originally by: Cyron Tout Hrm looks like i just missed the action. But it seemed like chaos. Did you want any testing data from our end? Run logserver or supply PC stats etc?
Yes please use Logserver every time you file a bug report.
I have never used logserver in any of my bug reports. Never will.
The moment bug reports require logserver is the day I never log into bug reporting area again.
Do you know how much info CCP can get from a Logserver file that is created while you find bugs?.
The Logserver tool is there for a good reason. Why have it if we don't use it for what it's good for, showing errors in the game. |

ISquishWorms
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Posted - 2008.11.19 18:39:00 -
[32]
Edited by: ISquishWorms on 19/11/2008 18:42:49 I am worried the lag is not only occuring during PvP fights it is a general issue that arises from even just sitting doing nothing in a station. Please I hope this patch will address this issue as well please tell me it does as the game in its current state is as good as unplayable for a lot of us. If if this can not be fixed quickly I also vote that we roll back to EA for now.
I am happy to help test on Thursday if still needed. |

Katana Seiko
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.19 18:44:00 -
[33]
Is there any plan that we're given back the little dropdown box that allows us to decide what server we want to use? The current system where we have to edit a link under windows seems rather simple, but when it comes to linux or mac, you see that the current login screen solution is rubbish, at best. |

criminal69
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Posted - 2008.11.19 19:24:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Tuttomenui II
Originally by: criminal69 HI there!!!!! i've got a problem when i try to log in to singularity for mac, it's says that my username or password is incorrect....i check it and i don't understand..... plz help me....
If you changed your passward recently after the server was mirrored you will need to use your old passward to login to SISI I had this problem the first time i tried using SISI a couple months ago.
the strange thing is that i haven't changed my password, so i dunno!!!!
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Nuitariy
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Posted - 2008.11.19 19:32:00 -
[35]
I've been having client freezing issues for a while now and one of the other threads I was reading (and seemed applicable) was just closed by CCP and they rolled it into this thread. I managed to find the problem with my issue and I wanted to share it with others. I figured here would be good since this is where CCP linked me.
The issue was that my client would lock up for 2-20 seconds at a time over a random amount of time (from seconds to hours). Sometimes the mouse would freeze, and sometimes it would just be the graphics. It took me a while but I found the problem to be related to the moving of the log files from the default location of <wherever_they_once_were> to %my documents%\eve\*.* Since I was using redirected %my documents% within my home network it was causing my client to completely lock up every time a change occurred to the 'local' zone while in game play. It's possible other factors gave me problems as well, but the local zone was the easiest for me to associate with the client freezing. If someone entered, left, or spoke (speaking was the worst) it would cause my client to lock up for a, what appeared to be random, amount of time as it tried to log\cache the information to a redirected path. Turning off the redirection of my documents (or roaming profile if anyone of you are using one) seemed to fix my problem. I can now open containers, drag items, talk to people without my client freezing up.
I'm sure this doesn't apply to most of the people in this thread (which seems fleet focused). But I thought I would share anyways since this is where I was sent. |

Lord Haur
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.19 19:56:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Nullshadow Is there a standard system where tests are conducted? I would like to help out but these are slightly awkward times for me, so ideally I would like to get myself prepped in advance as much as possible (i.e. right place and setup on Sisi today, right place on live today in case of a re-mirroring before tomorrow).
It will probably be in FD-MLJ, which is in syndicate and 2 jumps from nearest hisec in Orvolle. It is highly unlikely that there will be a mirror before tomorrow, and anyway it takes about a week to process the mirror (remove POS's, scramble moonmins etc.) before it is uploaded to SiSi. --- Sig Starts Here --- Lord Haur - Imperial Academy Logistical Support
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Shidowin
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Posted - 2008.11.19 20:16:00 -
[37]
Ill Pass gave up BETA testing long ago
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ISVRaDa
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Posted - 2008.11.19 20:29:00 -
[38]
Hello!
I will try help, but is my first time in test server :). I am a "noob", me second week in EVE.
Greetings! |

Phillip Davis
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Posted - 2008.11.19 21:02:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Umbriele I have a better idea, reverse TQ to empyrean age, the very few new "features" of QR are useless anyway (i.e. the new reactions)
People like you complain everytime something new is introduced. Stop complaining or stop playing, but either way, shut up.
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Phillip Davis
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Posted - 2008.11.19 21:04:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Shidowin Ill Pass gave up BETA testing long ago
If you're not helping no one cares if you're going to pass. Stop thinking you're so important that if you don't participate the world ends.
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Savage Roar
Storm Thesis
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Posted - 2008.11.19 21:22:00 -
[41]
tbh the coolest thing about qr is the new splash/login screen |

AthlonJedi
Gallente Trinity Council
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Posted - 2008.11.19 21:52:00 -
[42]
personaly I have yet to encounter any lag issues but im running on an AMD quadCore with 4 gb 800 mhz ddr2 and 4 (yes 4) radeon x1650 in crossfire in a 790 FX chipset. I have has the dissapearing ship and gate issue though but after a few jumps it seems to fix itself. |

Toria Prischa
Iron Anvil Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.19 22:22:00 -
[43]
Personally. the only problems during normal play (not beta testing etc) are as follows:
+ Disapearing ships + Increased strain on graphics card (Used Premium/Extreme Setting with HDR+Bloom on previous version. Can only use Premium/Normal with NO HDR and NO Bloom on Quantum Rise). When set to higher than Premium/Normal framerate drops to less than 1/sec making it unplayable. + Players appear to disapear from the Fleet Roster for myself, but not for others in fleet.
No problems so far from the Weapon Groupings, which I think is a great idea. Personally I think you should be able to have virtual groups, that allow you to fire different groups of weapons with one button. It would not affect the server load etc, but would be easier for players with bigger ships. :P (LAZY WOO!!!)
As a side note, would like to see a much cleaner/simpler bracket filtering system. |

Kateryne
Minmatar purple pot hogs
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Posted - 2008.11.19 22:25:00 -
[44]
It's precisely this kind of varied response from people that CCP want to hear, but coupled with stress testing on SiSi so they can try out different code to see which optimizations work best. |

General Xenophon
Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.11.20 00:03:00 -
[45]
Edited by: General Xenophon on 20/11/2008 00:04:08 Edited by: General Xenophon on 20/11/2008 00:03:53 First, thank you for taking a look at this issue. Secondly, there is lag just moving boxes around while inside a station, using the fittings page, browsing the market, and pretty much everything while inside a station. Not to mention lag when jumping into a system.
When I run two accounts, or even just one, sometimes after entering a system one of the characters will immediately, no lag, just right away warp to a safe-spot. While this is a nice idea, I don't see why it's happening because I am right on the next screen doing something, only having activated 'jump' on the second account just a few seconds ago. So the warp off seems unnecessary.
Again, thank you for looking into the client lag issues! The issue seems to start with just one client and one character, let alone a fleet of clients / players.
Edit: Spelling ftl. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men." - Boondock Saints |

Andraine
Coded Arms Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.20 00:36:00 -
[46]
Originally by: General Xenophon Edited by: General Xenophon on 20/11/2008 00:04:08 Edited by: General Xenophon on 20/11/2008 00:03:53 First, thank you for taking a look at this issue. Secondly, there is lag just moving boxes around while inside a station, using the fittings page, browsing the market, and pretty much everything while inside a station. Not to mention lag when jumping into a system.
When I run two accounts, or even just one, sometimes after entering a system one of the characters will immediately, no lag, just right away warp to a safe-spot. While this is a nice idea, I don't see why it's happening because I am right on the next screen doing something, only having activated 'jump' on the second account just a few seconds ago. So the warp off seems unnecessary.
Again, thank you for looking into the client lag issues! The issue seems to start with just one client and one character, let alone a fleet of clients / players.
Edit: Spelling ftl.
QFT |

Aeo IV
Amarr Xomic OmniCorporation
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Posted - 2008.11.20 00:46:00 -
[47]
We should be flying ravens, if this is a lag test then; missiles always seem to lag the hell out of me. |

Grarr Dexx
Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.20 00:57:00 -
[48]
You misspelled your second thursday.
I'll try to be there, although the timing is going to be rather iffy. |

Capt Jita
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Posted - 2008.11.20 01:07:00 -
[49]
Just moving around in space, making some jumps, looking at the market lags me. No problems here at all pre Quantum Rise.
Run two clients and after an hour or so I have to shut down as it has become a slideshow. I was originally a flight simmer, build my own computers and am playing eve on a rig with XP Pro, 2GB fast ram, an Intel e6850 dual core with a great after market cooler, an 8800 GTX with same and nothing overclocked. I can play Crysis MAXED Dx9 on this machine very smoothly.
Keep trying CCP, and possibly pass on to your folks handling petitions that, Yes, there is a problem. Because they don't think there is anything wrong!
A quote from the person I am dealing with:
Quote: We checked the server logs and it showed no lag in Jita!

Hearing from CCP Tanis, It is good to know some of you folks at CCP still play Eve. |

Cyron Tout
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Posted - 2008.11.20 01:33:00 -
[50]
For gods sake guys. They're just performing some tests here. Stop trying to tell them what the real bugs are or what they should really be working on. You are NOT the experts. Believe it. Stop spamming this thread with irrelevant babble. They want to know how the fleet fight went for you, not how laggy the station was. (which, by the way, you are playing on the test server - it's not designed for high performance.)
On another note, are we meant to bug report our findings or post them here? |

Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.11.20 02:43:00 -
[51]
Originally by: NightmareX
Do you know how much info CCP can get from a Logserver file that is created while you find bugs?.
The Logserver tool is there for a good reason. Why have it if we don't use it for what it's good for, showing errors in the game.
absolutely certain you are right.
But you have to run logserver before u run game. and yadda yadda yadda. So much bother. Especially when most bug reports get epic rolled.
Ill let the BH slaves do the hard work. |

Quicktime
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.20 04:01:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Umbriele I have a better idea, reverse TQ to empyrean age, the very few new "features" of QR are useless anyway (i.e. the new reactions)
Agreed and signed! I would be happy to test the old fun system before QR this is terrible crap. |

An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.20 04:31:00 -
[53]
I have an even better idea! Roll TQ back to Castor. LOLOLOLOL I AM SO COOL.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Pillihp
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Posted - 2008.11.20 05:23:00 -
[54]
I logged in ok but do you want us to risk our real characters and spend ISK for a batleship? I thought this would be a new character just for this test. Guess I am not sure what to do. My first try at this test on EVE though I have BETA tested a lot before.
Originally by: CCP Tanis. Howdy folks,
Since the release of Quantum Rise on TQ there have been some issues with client latency and response times, particularly with fleet fights. We take this issue very seriously and as a result, our engineering team has been in high-gear working on fixing the problem and we think we are close, but we need your help.
We have a few potential changes that we think may fix the problem, but we need to put these changes through a few proper fleet fights to see which one works the best. To that end we will be running a series of fleet fights on our main test server, Singularity.
These test are already under way, but the more people who show up, the better. We need at least 50 pilots, preferably 200+.
Test schedule:
Wednesday @ 11:00 GMT Wednesday @ 15:00 GMT Thursday @ 11:00 GMT Thrusday @ 15:00 GMT (Pending results of other tests)
If you want to join in do the following:
- Make a copy of the current Tranquility (TQ) client
- Visit the Sisi patch page.
- Patch the copied client to the Singularity build
- Login to the singularity test server
- Join the in-game channel "TanisFleet"
- Fit yourself with a battleship, close range setup with drones and use weapon grouping
- Listen for instructions and ask questions in-channel
After investigating the lag in fleet fights since Quantum Rise was released we've found that it is actually caused by several bugs, this makes a "fix" much more tricky as we have to fix each part in just the right way to make sure we can eliminate the lag without causing other problems. This is why these tests are so important. The quicker we find the right fix, the quicker we can deploy that fix to TQ.
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IlluminatedOne
Amarr Tycho Brahe Fan Club
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Posted - 2008.11.20 05:39:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Pillihp I logged in ok but do you want us to risk our real characters and spend ISK for a batleship? I thought this would be a new character just for this test. Guess I am not sure what to do. My first try at this test on EVE though I have BETA tested a lot before.
You aren't spending your isk and you aren't risking your character - the test fight will be on the test server (Singularity), not on the live server (Tranquility).
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2008.11.20 05:56:00 -
[56]
Originally by: IlluminatedOne
Originally by: Pillihp I logged in ok but do you want us to risk our real characters and spend ISK for a batleship? I thought this would be a new character just for this test. Guess I am not sure what to do. My first try at this test on EVE though I have BETA tested a lot before.
You aren't spending your isk and you aren't risking your character - the test fight will be on the test server (Singularity), not on the live server (Tranquility).
What he said. This ain't the live server, but the test server, so nothing will happen to your REAL character / ships.
On another note, I can't believe the attitude I'm seeing around this thread. How can you even THINK of trolling the devs in a thread where they are SPECIFICALLY asking for your help in fixing a problem you complain about? How THICK can you get? Grow up, damn kids, ffs. |

Johnnokks
Caldari Stormlord Battleforce Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.11.20 07:13:00 -
[57]
On another note, I can't believe the attitude I'm seeing around this thread. How can you even THINK of trolling the devs in a thread where they are SPECIFICALLY asking for your help in fixing a problem you complain about? How THICK can you get? Grow up, damn kids, ffs.
Signed.....
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Dave Boanerges
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Posted - 2008.11.20 08:20:00 -
[58]
Ive been seeing very little lag but when i do see it there would appear to be less going on around me than when it lagged pre-patch. I do enjoy the new higher definition models. The largest fleet battles ive been in since the patch are around 20 ships... it seems many are hesitant after the new changes. I think that on the whole i can understand the reason for the changes though. I cant wait to get into a 100 ship battle and actually see what is happening in real time instead of slow motion like before. There are definitely a couple of memory leaks. And I have been seeing a number of socket loss disconnects during peak time. Lukily not while im in the middle of a fight or mission. |

Desiree Mabuto
Caldari Jagdkommando RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 08:49:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Umbriele I have a better idea, reverse TQ to empyrean age, the very few new "features" of QR are useless anyway (i.e. the new reactions)
What you say there is a hit to the face of every developer and designer which has put hundreds of hours of work, enthusiasm and ideas into the developement of the new expansion. An issue with lag can be the result of one single line in code or architecture which worked perfectly in all tests - but you can never test under real environment conditions - where a not measurable amount of lag summarizes up to unexpected results. I'd say you also dont oversee the effects "useless" things like the new reactions have and are intended to have. I am a programmer by myself and I hate nothing else more than such stupid, useless statements.
|

Ancy Denaries
Caldari Solaris Operations
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 08:49:00 -
[60]
What sucks is that these tests are happening during my work hours, so I can't come along and help :(
Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change. |

Lauri Andromedae
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 09:06:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Shidowin Ill Pass gave up BETA testing long ago
Who cares what you think? These 12 year olds are so funny. They post emoragequit posts every week and they think CCP closes doors if they quit. The world is laughing at ppl like these 
|

Nexes Edelstahl
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 09:37:00 -
[62]
ya, problems seem to start after a hour or so, jumping gates and docking proceedures are choppy, taking over a minute to load. Salvage has become painfull opening wreaks. "Select item" window box displays duplicate icons. Opening any window is a lag and selling loot at market is a total drag! Just to name a few ... Game has become painfull to play.
|

Valhala King
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 10:11:00 -
[63]
will be there and have to say that you all are lucky, indeed we have so much lag here on our island in the middle of the indian ocean it the first time we seen we could help evaluate or do anything to give back for all the painfull but fun we have here thanks eve
keep UP THE GREAT experince 
|

krakshar
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 10:21:00 -
[64]
good idea but not good time for european.....work time...too bad
|

fulin1
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 11:17:00 -
[65]
I would like to help out but these are slightly awkward times for me, so ideally I would like to get myself prepped in advance as much as possible (i.e. right place and setup on Sisi today,
|

Vint Rotach
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 11:29:00 -
[66]
Tried to patch MacOS Client.
Got download eveclassicpatch69477-69941_test-mac Patched ok, but I get an error launching the eve client that says its damaged or corrupt. Sorry cant be there to help... Got to go download all over again now.

|

Cyron Tout
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:04:00 -
[67]
Thursday 11:00GMT test: 1680x1050 WINDOWED All options turned on, shadows on normal. In fleet averaged about 0-5 FPS. Managed to turn off most options and got 5-10 FPS. Noticed the module lag. Gun activation appeared to turn on after about 30 secs, but out of the entire fleet fight i shot only 20 rounds of rails (7 turrets grouped).
|

fab24
Gallente House of Tempers
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:07:00 -
[68]
i'd like to help you CCP, but unbann me of sisi first... |

Skallebank
Minmatar Mentis Fidelis Un-Natural Selection
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:08:00 -
[69]
i cant beleive they closed the server in the middle of the test. plus it was a pretty awesome battle. |

Kavin Alavandar
Gallente Extropy Dianoetics
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:09:00 -
[70]
I got in 15 minutes before Singularity shut down, and it took me those 15 minutes to fit the battleship. I got the last module in as it shut down. Blast it.
Is this reboot the end of the test until 15:00? |

Bimjo
Caldari Domination. Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:09:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Bimjo on 20/11/2008 12:09:37
Originally by: Skallebank i cant beleive they closed the server in the middle of the test. plus it was a pretty awesome battle.
qft ! (first part) the battle itself was too laggy |

RaTTuS
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:10:00 -
[72]
yes - come back then - well get in early |

La Zitella
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:10:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Skallebank i cant beleive they closed the server in the middle of the test. plus it was a pretty awesome battle.
me too  |

Eina Shadowlancer
Society of the Crimson Flame
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:11:00 -
[74]
Well... it lagged alright, 0.1 fps... during the good times, but it was a good fight.
I hope it helped, and it was quite fun to watch the slideshow.
Ps. That Minmatar dread who was shooting me before DT... close but no cigar... |

Ravenja
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:11:00 -
[75]
Originally by: S3RGEANT why fleet fights?? this lag problem happens after about half an hour regardless of whether your near 1 ship or 100s...
Exactly. After 4h+ of gameplay all GUI reactions are really slow, doing stuff on the market screen like modifying orders freezes everything for 10+ seconds. After I re-logon everything is back to normal, i.e. GUI response is fast and market screen only freezes for ~1 second. |

place1
Amarr New Eden Research Organisation StarFleet Federation
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:13:00 -
[76]
Definity was fun wish they would not have shut down server though.
lag was bad 20-30 sec mod activation and stayed active 30-40 sec after target died. 10mg banwith net 9800GT 1g core 2 quade core 3.2ghz 2g memory
all game seting set to high.
all in all good fun not as bad of lag as expected. |

Bratwurst0r
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:15:00 -
[77]
11:00GMT test:
- E8400 / HD4870 / 3GB (WinXP, dual Monitor 22" and 19" TFT) - Premium Client (windowed 1440x900) / all options turned on / shadow:normal / HDR:high / cache:extreme
Fleet-Battle FPS: 7-12fps, some 5-10sec freezes Module Lag: 15-20sec
CPU never went above 47% GPU never went above 45%
My conclusion is that the premium client doesnt fully use the resources on my rig. I will try classic-client for the next test at 15:00GMT |

Murk Loar
Polytope
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:16:00 -
[78]
Thursday 1100 Test.
All effects on,sound on,Premium Graphics. FPS ranged from 0.8 (especially when ships exploded,ships warping in etc) to 14,but sat at an average of 4-5. View was not too choppy,mostly smooth,however the module lag was bad,and trying to target was a joke in itself. Reloading took a while. |

Sheryl Nome
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:17:00 -
[79]
Vista Home Premium 32 Bit Intel Core2 Duo T7300 2.0GHz 2 GB Ram Nvidia GeForce 8400M GS
Average FPS: 0.1 - 1.5
Hope this helps
|

Bimjo
Caldari Domination. Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:21:00 -
[80]
seeing as lag is server side and not my PC I see no point in giving my specs. I also had 0.1 fps if I was lucky,boring test but always glad to help ====================
|
|

CCP Tanis.

|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:21:00 -
[81]
Thanks to everyone who has participated in these tests thus far, we've been getting a lot of really good data!
I apologize for the abrupt stop to take down the servers at teh end of this last test, we have a very short window to do all the updates we need to do, so it was unavoidable.
The next test will be at 15:00 GMT today with a new client, so be ready to patch up the client you used earlier if you are participating in this next test. ____________________________ I break things.
Tanis. Testing Lead - Engineering Services EVE Online CCP Games
"So let me get this straight; you want to fly on a magic carpet, to see the king of the potato people and plead with him for your freedom; and you're telling me you're completely sane?!" |
|

Kenpachi Zakirai
Mindstar Technology
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:22:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Kenpachi Zakirai on 20/11/2008 12:23:32 I sat at 0.1 FPS when I was actually able to move but generally sat at less than that. Definitely more laggy than any fleet battle I've been in, but it's to be expected. Also, my computer is crap as is the connection I'm currently using, so that all factors into it as well.
Oh, and good timing on the server shut down. I was at half way armor and couldn't turn on my reppers. :D
|

Rethie
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:22:00 -
[83]
Adveraged about 1fps, just a slide show, modules lagged about 30secs, targeting was a joke, I just waiting until someone locked me finally and then hit them with all, sorry, was best I could supply in support, drones were slackers and off doing their own thing, took a heap of fighters damage but survived until shutdown, thanks for whoever got a rep into me for that little bit until I could rep myself.
|

Leod Athas
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:23:00 -
[84]
Thursday 11:00 GMT test:
It was basically frozen for me. I was getting 0.0-0.1 fps the whole time. Completely unplayable. Logged out and came back. It was still the same.
System is Linux w/ wine. (which I guess is not supported, but I don't know if there are other Linux people testing this stuff.)
My system regularly runs in 20-30fps. System is Pentium4. 3Ghz, 1GB Ram, with nvidia GeForce PCX 5300.
|

Crellion
Art of War Exalted.
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:25:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Anderson I vote for RMR rollback personally. Pre-WTZ and then just let it be.
I'll try to be there today :) Did they mirror SiSi?
This
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |

Lord Haur
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:26:00 -
[86]
Thurs 11am:
Windows XP Pro SP3 Core 2 duo E6750 (2.66GHz) 3GB RAM Geforce 8800GT (512MB)
running premium with all effects off, shadows on normal @ 1680x1050
averaged around 8-10 FPS, with occaisional drop, and 30s-1m module lag. --- Sig Starts Here --- Lord Haur - Imperial Academy Logistical Support
|

Blue Scorpian
B A C K B O N E Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:28:00 -
[87]
no info as i didnt make it into fight will test server be back up again before 1500? and How soon till we can get the patch? please
Thanks,
Blue Scorpian .,;'"BACKBONE"';,.
|

Cadela Fria
Amarr x13 X13 Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:29:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Originally by: GM Retrofire
Originally by: Cyron Tout Hrm looks like i just missed the action. But it seemed like chaos. Did you want any testing data from our end? Run logserver or supply PC stats etc?
Yes please use Logserver every time you file a bug report.
I have never used logserver in any of my bug reports. Never will.
The moment bug reports require logserver is the day I never log into bug reporting area again.
Then please do us all a favor and never file a bug report, you probably aren't contributing anything, except taking up time that could be spent on a useful bugreport. |

Valhala King
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:30:00 -
[89]
Tanis, i am a noob to testing here dont know were to go so will post here, after logging in of course the system new, I had to set everything up from scratch, dropping intro movie to tutorials windows, puting 12font (old man here ) but once in station i was able to operate, i had to locate the place to get my ship everything worked fine, surprise for me as even with EVE (my old computer) i have delays on a good normal day, once i located the station to get the ship and fit it out again everything went very smooth, i was able to use all services in station effectivly and quite quickly, i also found a fellow star traveller who helped(thanks MikeD) direct me in the right direction, however i ran out of time after setting up my ship side note (LOVE THE PRICES)up so i wa only able to chse some drones down...it about my speed anyway... so that is it all went fairly well although no fleet action sorry thanks for letting us help VK out |

ZiggyMeister
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:47:00 -
[90]
Originally by: CCP Tanis. Thanks to everyone who has participated in these tests thus far, we've been getting a lot of really good data!
I apologize for the abrupt stop to take down the servers at teh end of this last test, we have a very short window to do all the updates we need to do, so it was unavoidable.
The next test will be at 15:00 GMT today with a new client, so be ready to patch up the client you used earlier if you are participating in this next test.
Damn, that was really a life changing experience. I was able to be killed and then POD killed without having any chance of give 1 single order to my ship! I recon I was using a Thrasher, cause my char isn't updated on the Test server so my Hurricane seems to never had existed there and my char isn't even able to fly a Cruiser, much less a BattleCruiser. But common I had 67 fps while docked and around 0 fps in space during the battle!
Although my first log into the test server was frustrating, maybe I'll see you guys later at 15:00, as long as I have my Hurricane available and it's fittings ready to rock and roll 
So CCP, please try to update the char sheet and assets before the new scheduled test!
Thanks!
Best Regards, ZiggyMeister
|

Gilbert T
Gallente Entropians on Vacation
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:59:00 -
[91]
Running linux client, and unable to patch at all. I've tried recopying, reinstalling and recopying, recopying and repatching from EA to QR, etc, etc. Every time the same results:
First the patch fails with a message (sorry I don't have the exact message) about my EVE installation being corrupt. After that is complete, running the client gives me a "Verification Failure" ... "C:\Program Files\CCP\EVE\bin\blue.dll" ... crc (mismatch)
So...I can't get on SISI to do any testing with THAT patch. :(
|
|

CCP Tanis.

|
Posted - 2008.11.20 13:14:00 -
[92]
Sisi Mirror:
Unfortunately a mirror takes quite a while to prepare (several days), so it is not possible to have a new one done before the next test.
Linux patches:
I've spoken to our build-masters and we'll be sure to verify the linux TQ->Sisi patch for the next test. ____________________________ I break things.
Tanis. Testing Lead - Engineering Services EVE Online CCP Games
"So let me get this straight; you want to fly on a magic carpet, to see the king of the potato people and plead with him for your freedom; and you're telling me you're completely sane?!" |
|

Rad Cobalt
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 13:14:00 -
[93]
Although the fleet fight was noticably flipping between slideshow-laggy and lagged-out as the combat went on, I suspect my rokh was doing ok amid the chaos flying around on an afterburner. Finally, after a long time into the combat, it appeared that things perhaps were out of sync somehow. Or I was perhaps hit by that Moros I was buzzing around.
Guess I should have had my combat log closed and effects turned off, I just wanted to try it out as I have a more powerful computer than the last time I was in a big fleet fight.
My logserver crashed btw, and I've sent a bug report. The eve client crashed as well some minutes after.
I noticed that when I logged back in 3 min before server was taken down, my lossmail was not to be seen in my character sheet. Only the single killmail on the other fleet was registered.
|

PJRiddick
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 13:41:00 -
[94]
Tanis, Thank you and all of th eCCP team for atleast trying to fix the problems that we all are having. I see that you all are now aware of the problems that we all are having. I for one have had the problems that everyone have complaned about and i am glad to see tha tyou and the CCP team are doing something about it. Yes LAG is a problem with the new build of EVE >QR< but FLEET mode i dont think is the problem here. It seems to be more of a time and game play issue, not having anything to do with FLEET. I know for myself, as the night goes on, i will experience lag that increases as time goes on, wether in fleet or not. Im a mission runner and miner,...and there have been times that i wont even undock only because of the lag. Thats my input,.... See you on the test server,... Clatu Verada Nicto Fly safe and Eat your vegatables. |

Elicetian
ICE is Coming to EVE Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 13:50:00 -
[95]
Originally by: PJRid**** Yes LAG is a problem with the new build of EVE >QR< but FLEET mode i dont think is the problem here. It seems to be more of a time and game play issue, not having anything to do with FLEET.
I think Fleet mode is only a way to reproduce the issue faster. Yep you will have the issue by playing alone after 1 or 2 hours. But you will experience it after few minute in a big fleet. That's why they are testing fleet battle in order to reproduce the issue faster and, I hope, to fix it faster :)
|

ISquishWorms
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 13:54:00 -
[96]
Originally by: CCP Tanis. Thanks to everyone who has participated in these tests thus far, we've been getting a lot of really good data!
I apologize for the abrupt stop to take down the servers at teh end of this last test, we have a very short window to do all the updates we need to do, so it was unavoidable.
The next test will be at 15:00 GMT today with a new client, so be ready to patch up the client you used earlier if you are participating in this next test.
Could you let us know when that patch is available thanks. I will be there to help test.
|

Lord Haur
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 13:55:00 -
[97]
Originally by: ISquishWorms
Originally by: CCP Tanis. Thanks to everyone who has participated in these tests thus far, we've been getting a lot of really good data!
I apologize for the abrupt stop to take down the servers at teh end of this last test, we have a very short window to do all the updates we need to do, so it was unavoidable.
The next test will be at 15:00 GMT today with a new client, so be ready to patch up the client you used earlier if you are participating in this next test.
Could you let us know when that patch is available thanks. I will be there to help test.
SiSi has just gone down for an emergency reboot, I suspect to apply the new patch. --- Sig Starts Here --- Lord Haur - Imperial Academy Logistical Support
|

Fergus Runkle
Minmatar Truth and Reconciliation Council
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 13:56:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Elicetian
Originally by: PJRid**** Yes LAG is a problem with the new build of EVE >QR< but FLEET mode i dont think is the problem here. It seems to be more of a time and game play issue, not having anything to do with FLEET.
I think Fleet mode is only a way to reproduce the issue faster. Yep you will have the issue by playing alone after 1 or 2 hours. But you will experience it after few minute in a big fleet. That's why they are testing fleet battle in order to reproduce the issue faster and, I hope, to fix it faster :)
I hope you are right. Personally my experience of this problem is that it is MORE likely to occur if you are docked and using various windows (market, science and industry etc) than if you are in space and in combat. So I hope that these tests are looking in the right places.
|

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 13:57:00 -
[99]
Originally by: CCP Tanis. text
Sounds good, I will try and log on as well :) |

Rethie
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 14:06:00 -
[100]
I am siding with the perception on my machine that it's a GPU issue, not cache memleak etc, or srver side lag, my GPU temp is off the board and fan goes to flat out at about 10 mins, though the cpu and mem usage is adverage, rebooting the client fixes it for another ten minutes, that's my play style atm, cycles of dock and reboot and start again. |
|

CCP Tanis.

|
Posted - 2008.11.20 14:25:00 -
[101]
After reviewing the results from the last test we've created a new change which we think will help considerably so we will be pushing out an emergency patch to Singularity as soon as the new patch is available.
This will likely delay the test from 15:00 to 15:30 or 16:00. |
|

PiehO
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 14:34:00 -
[102]
Perfect, gives me time to patch the client :).
Only just saw the news. |

S3RGEANT
Gallente Final-Solution space weaponry and trade
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 14:52:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Fergus Runkle
Originally by: Elicetian
Originally by: PJRid**** Yes LAG is a problem with the new build of EVE >QR< but FLEET mode i dont think is the problem here. It seems to be more of a time and game play issue, not having anything to do with FLEET.
I think Fleet mode is only a way to reproduce the issue faster. Yep you will have the issue by playing alone after 1 or 2 hours. But you will experience it after few minute in a big fleet. That's why they are testing fleet battle in order to reproduce the issue faster and, I hope, to fix it faster :)
I hope you are right. Personally my experience of this problem is that it is MORE likely to occur if you are docked and using various windows (market, science and industry etc) than if you are in space and in combat. So I hope that these tests are looking in the right places.
yea i agree fergus. I can be mission running for hours no worries at all, but when i come to sell up all the stuff ive looted it just lags to hell. fleet battles defo arent the problem..
|

Elicetian
ICE is Coming to EVE Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 14:57:00 -
[104]
Originally by: S3RGEANT
yea i agree fergus. I can be mission running for hours no worries at all, but when i come to sell up all the stuff ive looted it just lags to hell. fleet battles defo arent the problem..
Do not forget that:
Originally by: CCP Tanis This does NOT apply to the following:
* General "lag" * Opening market causes the client to lag (this is separate issue)
|

ISquishWorms
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 15:18:00 -
[105]
I am on the test server where are you all? 
|

Talminius
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 15:40:00 -
[106]
So i've been trying to get onto sisi, just got patched and its telling me my account has expired and wont allow me to log in. My account is open and I can log in and play on TQ just fine... Ideas? |

TheSarge1975
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 15:43:00 -
[107]
Can'nt get in either
|

TheSarge1975
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 15:45:00 -
[108]
Is there enough pilots already in maybe????? |

TheSarge1975
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 15:46:00 -
[109]
281 pilots in already, guess thats enough?
 |

ISquishWorms
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 15:47:00 -
[110]
Originally by: TheSarge1975 281 pilots in already, guess thats enough?

I seem to be all by myself at the moment. |

TheSarge1975
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 15:48:00 -
[111]
As long as it fixes the lag, not just in fleet battles but everywhere, all the time, after a while!! |

TheSarge1975
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 15:49:00 -
[112]
??, can'nt get in, invalid user and password?????
 |

TheSarge1975
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 15:50:00 -
[113]
Incorect log in name or password?? |

Captain Politics
JotunHeim Hird X13 Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 15:51:00 -
[114]
Originally by: TheSarge1975 ??, can'nt get in, invalid user and password?????

How old are your account ? Last mirror was in August afaik... If your account was not active at that time, you can not get in... |

TheSarge1975
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 15:51:00 -
[115]
Thats what it say's to me, guess it's one way to say that their is no problems, don't have anyone in there !!!!! lol |

TheSarge1975
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 15:52:00 -
[116]
aaahhh, only 1 month old |

Rethie
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 16:45:00 -
[117]
Well the second fight was worse for me than the first, I never was able to lock, and finally when someone locked me I couldn't engage modules, emergency warped restarted client, warped back into the fight, by the time I finally had a lock after about ten minutes, I was in my pod. Maybe even killed, I dont know, just closed the client no point hanging about in a bad thing.
|

Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO
Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 16:49:00 -
[118]
How 'bout some us primetime tests. I do actually have a job and sleep at night.
|

Elicetian
ICE is Coming to EVE Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 17:00:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO How 'bout some us primetime tests. I do actually have a job and sleep at night.
Maybe because like you do, people from CCP work during day and sleep at night :) |

TheSarge1975
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 17:10:00 -
[120]
LOL
|

Asmodean Reborn
Kurtz's Kommandos
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 17:13:00 -
[121]
Lag was reduced a lot by the removal of all brackets. Made the fleet battle playable. Also, reducing the amount of columns in the overview seemed to reduce lag. |

Ridickulo
Minmatar Tiger-Shrimp
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 17:19:00 -
[122]
where are we suposed to send the logs from the logserver? |

TheSarge1975
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 17:21:00 -
[123]
Takes bloody ages to dock and undock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |

Lord Haur
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 17:23:00 -
[124]
fight was frikkin awesome, Fleet 1 (W's) had 4+ guardians on the field which only got popped right at the end when the enemy aeon lobbed his fighters at us. |

C4w3
Minmatar Corp 1 Allstars
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 17:23:00 -
[125]
Lag issues for me:
Brackets on: 2-7 fps 1-3 min module lag.
Brackets off: 40-120 fps no module lag at all.
Fleet fight at it¦s worst 10-20 fps 30 sec to 1 min module lag.
Quad core 4 GB ram dual SLI 512 mb Nvidia GPU.
Gj AH ARA¦s fleet we took it home and WON ;0)
Seems less module lag whatever CCP done GJ.... fun afternoono thanks.
 |

TheSarge1975
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 17:26:00 -
[126]
Running classic graphics and everything turned down and still hammering my 2.1Ghz dual core!!!, spiking up off the graph on both cores when lagging!! 326,980k of memory on one Evefile.exe and 294,696k on the other!!!!
Abit worried about cpu Temp!!
Anyone geting the same??? Should i watch the temps??? |

TatooHead
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 17:28:00 -
[127]
Edited by: TatooHead on 20/11/2008 17:29:39 Edited by: TatooHead on 20/11/2008 17:29:16 Testing was great! We kicked their asses the first W fleet that is. Got back there and we cleared the field
On the report part:
-removing brackets worked great(forgot to check my fps but i noticed a huge increase in playability) -also removing almost everything exept ships that are not in fleet with you helped ALOT -i dropped from the server in the highest numbers time so i guess you found another bottle-neck there. Max player number in fight(dont ask me what it was) -had a huge lag spike on warp-in to the bf3, thats quite normal but hey still an anoyance
thats it from my part all i have to say is give us t2 large guns+t2 ammo skills next time so we can enjoy the dmg
|

Doctor Penguin
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 17:30:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Doctor Penguin on 20/11/2008 17:31:26 I hope somebody videoed it! 
How was the lag? I'll send CCP a cake made out of beer if it's better!
Just one step on the long, long road to 1000-man PVP. ________________________________________________
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Rivqua
Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 17:31:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Lord Haur fight was frikkin awesome, Fleet 1 (W's) had 4+ guardians on the field which only got popped right at the end when the enemy aeon lobbed his fighters at us.
*Rivqua* HighFives *Lord Haur*
Our reppers owned :)
/Riv
|

Blue Scorpian
B A C K B O N E Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 17:37:00 -
[130]
laggy and fun But when i died (happens sometimes on normal server as well) i got a wierd crazy sounds and then screen goes black sounds return to normal could here the fighting still happening and suddenly crashed out with Microsoft error report showing which i clicked send report please fix this :) as i dont like leaving my pod on stall while my games crashed and server has to log me before i get podded :( anyways was great and see ya next time for sure Blue Scorpian .,;'"BACKBONE"';,. |

Rivqua
Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 17:38:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Rivqua on 20/11/2008 17:39:22 Status on Repper: He had no brackets _or_ overview at all, everything was off, targeting was done through the broadcast & fleet windows, audio & eve-voice was checked off, cache was set to extreme, all effects were unchecked, premium client.
Lag was non-existent, 50+ fps, mods turned on / off within 2 sec of the cycle timer.
Status on Combat char: Non-fleeted ships were viewable on the overview, drones/beacons/stations/gates were all off, so where fleet ships. Audio was on, eve-voice was on & joined, all effects off, extreme cache, premium client.
Lag was definately there, especially if one turned the camera to render both fleets. FPS was stable around 23 FPS. Client was using around 1.3GB of RAM. Edit: Lag was there as in lower fps, and some jerkyness when ships arrived, so the overview had to be redraw, but have to point out, it was still very playable. just not as silky smooth as the repper char.
Each client was run on a separate machine, both had 3GHZ Dualcores, 8GB Vistax64, Combat char had ATI 3850 256MB, Repper char had nv 8800 GTX 768MB.
All in all, fully playable, all around awesome.
/Riv
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TheSarge1975
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 17:59:00 -
[132]
Silly question, but for all the guys who get lag from doing everyday tasks ... mining and basic missions.... will this "fleet battle" test make any difference???
 |

vonRackham
Gallente Murky Inc. Power Of 3
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 18:12:00 -
[133]
Would've been nice to be able to actually disable the brackets when the instruction came. Total freeze 9/10 of the time and a slideshow for the majority of the last 1/10...
Maybe it's me computer....
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TatooHead
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 18:23:00 -
[134]
Originally by: vonRackham Would've been nice to be able to actually disable the brackets when the instruction came. Total freeze 9/10 of the time and a slideshow for the majority of the last 1/10...
Maybe it's me computer....
I don't know if you were able or not but alt+z was the command that you should use. A friend of mine didn't know what brackets are so he ignored the directions and he got so ****ed that he left the server because he had as you say slideshows
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Atharax
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 18:32:00 -
[135]
Originally by: TatooHead
I don't know if you were able or not but alt+z was the command that you should use. A friend of mine didn't know what brackets are so he ignored the directions and he got so ****ed that he left the server because he had as you say slideshows
It was slideshow even with brackets off. That after the client locked completely for up to 30 seconds at a time.
In addition I can add that I did see the slower and slower loading of menus and screens when I bought items to fit a new ship. First died without seeing any other ship or even being attacked, client only recovered when I was resurrected in a station.
All this with one computer that in more than one way is quite overkill even for playing Eve on premium. :P
So my verdicts is mission accomplished, but the patient isn't well yet. And yes, logserver crached out somewhere on the way also. No info to give for me. I hope some of you others can send in yours though. |

DaDutchDude
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 18:52:00 -
[136]
Edited by: DaDutchDude on 20/11/2008 18:54:01 Perhaps usefull to know that the feedback thread for the tests can be found --> HERE <-- |

Renox
Gallente Celestial Apocalypse Resurgency
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 19:05:00 -
[137]
Originally by: DaDutchDude Edited by: DaDutchDude on 20/11/2008 18:56:17 Perhaps usefull to know that the feedback thread for the tests can be found --> HERE <--
And what are those brackets I hear people talking about? I didn't understand it at all. I pressed Alt-Z (as instructed) but nothing seemed to change, not in UI or in lag. Can somebody explain what I did wrong?
Brackets are the squares you see around ships, the circles for planets etc. Not those in your overview but those you see in space. That's brackets and they can be changed just as the overview settings can and using the same mechanism. Look in overview settings, last tab you can set different overview + bracket combinations, very handy!
"what are you gonna do with your pixels in your wallet when the server goes down is up to you." - Lilan |

Mr Goldfish
Ceptacemia
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 20:35:00 -
[138]
Will there be another test tomorrow at 12? I tested some today before servers were taken down quickly for emergency stop and it seemed ok at the time.
Goldie |

Pnandor
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 20:39:00 -
[139]
Well I haven't test any big fleet fight yet, but I have heard that some big fleet use
tons of number of player and drones who is causing a big laaaag as a weapon.
Is that true 
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Shinzu Takigawa
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 20:56:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Shinzu Takigawa on 20/11/2008 20:59:09 Its not lag its a memory leak issue where eve doesnt tell your computer properly how much ram to use up while playing so it slowly but surely keeps on sucking it until the game becomes unplayable, crashes or your computer locks ups and in some rare cases could overheat your cpu and your graphics card.
Next time you get this open up Windows Task Manager and go to processes, select eve.exe or hit the memory tab so highest memory use is at top. You will see eve.exe sucking the most memory and it just keeps on rising and rising until its in the hundreds of thousands and eve locks up or doesnt respond every 2 mins.
Different things trigger it for different clients, for me it seems to only happen when I join a fleet of over 20 and usually straight after iv just joined the fleet. Once I re log it seems to sort itself out.
This issue happend before a few batches back, the memory leak issue has happend many time in eve, always seems to come back and I think a problem with the main game code.
If it happens and everything becomes jumpy your comp is being sucked dry and struggling ( not because of your specs ) so best thing you can do is re log and pray it does not happen two or three times. Until they fix it.........again.
|

ISIAM
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 21:01:00 -
[141]
Is the test server going to come back up? And if so were do I get the most curent version? 
|
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CCP Tanis.

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Posted - 2008.11.20 21:09:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Ri****ulo where are we suposed to send the logs from the logserver?
You should submit them with a bug report, include some details about any specific problems you had during these tests and label you bug report something like "Fleet testing - For Tanis." |
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Moss Keetow
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 21:44:00 -
[143]
i downloaded the latest test patch (5.20.70001) which appears to be incompatible with the current release of Singularity ?!?!  What should I do ?
|

nakKEDK
Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 22:24:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Anderson I vote for RMR rollback personally. Pre-WTZ and then just let it be.
I'll try to be there today :) Did they mirror SiSi?
a rollback should'nt be difficult, happens all the time in fleet battles
k
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 23:15:00 -
[145]
Copied Eve to a new folder (named SISI) ---Check
Downloaded SISI patch ---Check
Applied patch to fresh copy of Eve ---Check
My original copy works fine, my new copy won't log into anything. I get to the login screen, see incompatable, and no mention of Sisi, and no option to change servers.
|

Aussie Vengeance
VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 23:56:00 -
[146]
I participated in the Wed 11:00 battle, and repeated an action that caused me serious problems in a real fleet fight last weekend. Same behaviour was displayed on Sisi, so thought I'd share;
At station - 60+fps Warp to fleet fight - initial 10 second delay while synching to grid, then fleet fps run around 5-10fps Warp back to station - fps around 15-20 fps Warp back to fleet fight - initial delay synching to grid closer to 1 minute, once graphics kick off fps around 0.1 --> 1 fps
Memory use jumped to 1.2Gb on the second warp-in.
System stats; P4 dual core 2Gb ram 9600GT 256mb video
brackets off turrets off full screen 1280x1024
Hope this helps - will be on again tonight, will do the same maneuver, and will turn on logging and send the bugreport thru if I get the same results.
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Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 01:14:00 -
[147]
CCP you got a problem, put more info on KD because most of your testers dont even know what brackets are |

Marcus Levidicus
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 02:43:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Sergeant Spot Copied Eve to a new folder (named SISI) ---Check
Downloaded SISI patch ---Check
Applied patch to fresh copy of Eve ---Check
My original copy works fine, my new copy won't log into anything. I get to the login screen, see incompatable, and no mention of Sisi, and no option to change servers.
Yeah I am having the same issue. I am getting a Protocol error ? It worked earlier today |

Akira117
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 02:52:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Akira117 on 21/11/2008 02:56:02
Quote: Since the release of Quantum Rise on TQ there have been some issues with client latency and response times, particularly with fleet fights.
Since I started eve more than a year ago there has been a problem with latency in fleet fight, but I think you mean small fleet fight, like with noobs in low sec. |

Cat Molina
Minmatar Psychotic Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 03:49:00 -
[150]
Great going CCP. Because testing lag in fleet battles will certainly explain why my CPU usage sits at 100% while sitting in a ****ing station.
No problems running two clients before patch. Now can't even run one... with everything set to the lowest quality.
But have fun with your battles.
|

Ishamial Demandred
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 04:42:00 -
[151]
Copied Eve to a new folder (named SISI) ---Check
Downloaded SISI patch ---Check
Applied patch to fresh copy of Eve ---Check
My original copy works fine, my new copy won't log into anything. I get to the login screen, see incompatable, and no mention of Sisi, and no option to change servers --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i am also having this problem
|

Tuttomenui II
Gallente Tsunami Pheniox
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 05:55:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Ishamial Demandred Copied Eve to a new folder (named SISI) ---Check
Downloaded SISI patch ---Check
Applied patch to fresh copy of Eve ---Check
My original copy works fine, my new copy won't log into anything. I get to the login screen, see incompatable, and no mention of Sisi, and no option to change servers --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i am also having this problem
Login to the singularity test server <-- This might be the step your all having trouble with. If you are having trouble.
You need to make a short cut to the copied eve folders eve.exe and edit the target line to add this > /server:87.237.38.50 < should look like this: "C:\Program Files\CCP\EVE Test Server\eve.exe" /server:87.237.38.50
This tells the client to connect to the SISI server. |

John Hollow
Minmatar Afterisk
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 06:45:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Cat Molina Great going CCP. Because testing lag in fleet battles will certainly explain why my CPU usage sits at 100% while sitting in a ****ing station.
No problems running two clients before patch. Now can't even run one... with everything set to the lowest quality.
But have fun with your battles.
There is lag all over in the game currently. Perhaps the best way to test something is to try the most extreme circumstances first and work your way down. If you can make it smooth running with a lot going on, it stands to reason it could be made smooth with nothing going on? |

S3RGEANT
Gallente Final-Solution space weaponry and trade
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 07:35:00 -
[154]
Originally by: John Hollow
Originally by: Cat Molina Great going CCP. Because testing lag in fleet battles will certainly explain why my CPU usage sits at 100% while sitting in a ****ing station.
No problems running two clients before patch. Now can't even run one... with everything set to the lowest quality.
But have fun with your battles.
There is lag all over in the game currently. Perhaps the best way to test something is to try the most extreme circumstances first and work your way down. If you can make it smooth running with a lot going on, it stands to reason it could be made smooth with nothing going on?
wat the **** are you chatting? i dont know what their reasons are for staging fleet battles but that clearly isnt related to the all round lag we are experiencing everywhere since the release of QR. If they are trying to improve the performance of fleet battles then thats great and good luck to em. but i wish one of them would at least acknowledge the god damn lag problem that they have created!
|

Black Jumper
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 07:37:00 -
[155]
A good feature would be to be able to enable / disable explosions effects (white blue flashes).
These effects usually cause quite some freeezes during fleet fights and should be optional. --- 22:31:49 Notify Archon belonging to Galavet self-destructs. |

antientity
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 07:58:00 -
[156]
Is there a fight planned for Friday @ 11?
After already being in the test server today client performance seems better. |

trdo
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 10:22:00 -
[157]
I will join it, just if i am free at the time.
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Lord Haur
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 11:03:00 -
[158]
Originally by: CCP Tanis. Test schedule:
Wednesday @ 11:00 GMT Wednesday @ 15:00 GMT Thursday @ 11:00 GMT Thursday @ 15:00 GMT (CONFIRMED : Delayed till 15:30 or 16:00) Friday @ 16:00 GMT (Moved to a new time )
From updated OP |

M1ke Lowrey
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 11:06:00 -
[159]
Hi guys :)
I am getting: Server: Tranquility Status: Incompatible (protocol)
I have the latest patch (5.20.70034) and I can't seem to change the eve.exe. Can anyone help or should I wait? |

Tomcsicsaj
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 11:11:00 -
[160]
hyperion,blaster,ab and all going to die :P i be there
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Rannis Ironfist
Haven NetWorks
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 11:19:00 -
[161]
Mike: you're still trying to connect to tranquility! make sure your shortcut has the "target" box showing the following "C:\Program Files\CCP\EVE Test Server\eve.exe" /server:87.237.38.50 and your problem should be sorted
|

Athelas Loraiel
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Celestial Industrial Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 11:19:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Tuttomenui II
Originally by: Ishamial Demandred Copied Eve to a new folder (named SISI) ---Check
Downloaded SISI patch ---Check
Applied patch to fresh copy of Eve ---Check
My original copy works fine, my new copy won't log into anything. I get to the login screen, see incompatable, and no mention of Sisi, and no option to change servers --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i am also having this problem
Login to the singularity test server <-- This might be the step your all having trouble with. If you are having trouble.
You need to make a short cut to the copied eve folders eve.exe and edit the target line to add this > /server:87.237.38.50 < should look like this: "C:\Program Files\CCP\EVE Test Server\eve.exe" /server:87.237.38.50
This tells the client to connect to the SISI server.
It should really be made easier for folks who are new to sissi. Why dont you make it user friendly? That pat ch ne has to use for sissy can easily make a test server shortcut cant it???
|

Lord Haur
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 11:23:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Athelas Loraiel
It should really be made easier for folks who are new to sissi. Why dont you make it user friendly? That pat ch ne has to use for sissy can easily make a test server shortcut cant it???
Yeah, it normally does (did under last build), however they broke it in the latest patch. --- Sig Starts Here --- Lord Haur - Imperial Academy Logistical Support
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Skallebank
Minmatar Mentis Fidelis Un-Natural Selection
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 11:29:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Rannis Ironfist Mike: you're still trying to connect to tranquility! make sure your shortcut has the "target" box showing the following "C:\Program Files\CCP\EVE Test Server\eve.exe" /server:87.237.38.50 and your problem should be sorted
Thank you heaps , fixed my problem 
FREEDOM OF SPEECH WHATS THAT ? |

ISVRaDa
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 11:31:00 -
[165]
I am still with the trial but already buy the game. Im not going to be able to help in Test Server? :(
I have the updated client but I can't logging.
Greetings! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= What can change the nature of a man? |

Lord Haur
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 11:35:00 -
[166]
Originally by: ISVRaDa I am still with the trial but already buy the game. Im not going to be able to help in Test Server? :(
I have the updated client but I can't logging.
Greetings!
The last mirror was a couple months back, so you will need to wait until the next mirror to access it. --- Sig Starts Here --- Lord Haur - Imperial Academy Logistical Support
|

ISVRaDa
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 11:41:00 -
[167]
Thanks Lord Haur!
I want test, but I will wait patiently :) |

PJRiddick
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 12:04:00 -
[168]
Hay CCP i dont knwo if this is of an issue o concern or not but,... i wake up every morning and check my skills and change them out accordingly. I needed to start another skill but the skill that i wanted to start was in another station in the same system. The timer said i had a little over 5 minutes to get to the station and start the skill. I undocked,...and the timer went to 10 seconds,...freaking not wanting to leave my ship out in space for the day i tryed to redock,..... Is that normal? showing 5 minutes inside and 10 seconds outside? Hay i lost a day at work due to this.........I stayed home just to start my skill and tomake sure my ship docked,.....

|

Ruv Kaulovesh
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 12:08:00 -
[169]
Originally by: S3RGEANT
Originally by: John Hollow
Originally by: Cat Molina Great going CCP. Because testing lag in fleet battles will certainly explain why my CPU usage sits at 100% while sitting in a ****ing station.
No problems running two clients before patch. Now can't even run one... with everything set to the lowest quality.
But have fun with your battles.
if you realy think it has nothing to do with it make a file log while you play and send it to them. everyone complains that the game laggs at about an hour or so, whats the easier test.. stage a fleet battle to strain the system or have 500 people sit around for an hour or two and then sort through 500 50 page logs to try to see where the problem is. im a programmer, stress testing usually gives more results alot faster. their trying to fix it, either help or leave em alone so they can do it.sounds like its a memory leak, easyest way to test to see where it is is to have alot happening so its easier to spot cause if its at an hour or 2 that people have problems its probly only a fiew bytes at a time..
There is lag all over in the game currently. Perhaps the best way to test something is to try the most extreme circumstances first and work your way down. If you can make it smooth running with a lot going on, it stands to reason it could be made smooth with nothing going on?
wat the **** are you chatting? i dont know what their reasons are for staging fleet battles but that clearly isnt related to the all round lag we are experiencing everywhere since the release of QR. If they are trying to improve the performance of fleet battles then thats great and good luck to em. but i wish one of them would at least acknowledge the god damn lag problem that they have created!
|

Ruv Kaulovesh
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 12:17:00 -
[170]
Edited by: Ruv Kaulovesh on 21/11/2008 12:19:23
|

S3RGEANT
Gallente Final-Solution space weaponry and trade
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 15:37:00 -
[171]
Edited by: S3RGEANT on 21/11/2008 15:38:45
Originally by: Ruv Kaulovesh Edited by: Ruv Kaulovesh on 21/11/2008 12:20:45
Originally by: S3RGEANT
Originally by: John Hollow
Originally by: Cat Molina Great going CCP. Because testing lag in fleet battles will certainly explain why my CPU usage sits at 100% while sitting in a ****ing station.
No problems running two clients before patch. Now can't even run one... with everything set to the lowest quality.
But have fun with your battles.
There is lag all over in the game currently. Perhaps the best way to test something is to try the most extreme circumstances first and work your way down. If you can make it smooth running with a lot going on, it stands to reason it could be made smooth with nothing going on?
wat the **** are you chatting? i dont know what their reasons are for staging fleet battles but that clearly isnt related to the all round lag we are experiencing everywhere since the release of QR. If they are trying to improve the performance of fleet battles then thats great and good luck to em. but i wish one of them would at least acknowledge the god damn lag problem that they have created!
if you realy think it has nothing to do with it make a file log while you play and send it to them. everyone complains that the game laggs at about an hour or so, whats the easier test.. stage a fleet battle to strain the system or have 500 people sit around for an hour or two and then sort through 500 50 page logs to try to see where the problem is. im a programmer, stress testing usually gives more results alot faster. their trying to fix it, either help or leave em alone so they can do it.sounds like its a memory leak, easyest way to test to see where it is is to have alot happening so its easier to spot cause if its at an hour or 2 that people have problems its probly only a fiew bytes at a time..
You've made a valid argument. and im not saying your right or wrong. my point is that i want CCP to say it.
|

Tuttomenui II
Gallente Tsunami Pheniox
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 15:47:00 -
[172]
Originally by: ISVRaDa I am still with the trial but already buy the game. Im not going to be able to help in Test Server? :(
I have the updated client but I can't logging.
Greetings!
Only those who had an active acount before the last mirror will be able to participate. I think trials still could in theory get onto SISI but the mirror is older than 14 days so thats where the problem lies. |

DeadHeat
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 15:49:00 -
[173]
how do I make a copy of my TQ client?? I want to join the fight |

NightmareX
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 17:19:00 -
[174]
Edited by: NightmareX on 21/11/2008 17:23:46
Originally by: DeadHeat how do I make a copy of my TQ client?? I want to join the fight
You start the Diablo game, and put the the EVE folder into the inventory in Diablo and then you dupe the EVE Online folder, and then you have 2 of it .
Nah, j/k. Maybe you can copy the main EVE folder and put the content in the main eve folder into the new test server folder :)?.
Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike' |

Toren Todeath
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 19:01:00 -
[175]
I copied the folder, put the lastest test patch in the folder, and its still says tranquility incompatable protocol, worked fine until today, so i rinsed and repeated and still no luck
|

Covered Enemy
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 22:44:00 -
[176]
Edited by: Covered Enemy on 21/11/2008 22:44:46 EDIT: nvr mind
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