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The problem in Eve-Online with Ship Agility

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Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.20 19:47:00 - [1] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Ok this is real simple. If you need more and more specialized ships and most important MORE tackle and dps to kill a target before it gets away it will force people to blob MORE. It may force people to "blob more", but there will be less of it going on. Whether or not that is a good thing, i don't know. Just wanted to point out that you two were arguing opposite points. Lets get this a bit more formalized: What effort should you be expected to expend to catch a ship that uses 1 module dedicated to avoid you? 2 modules dedicated to avoid you? 3 modules dedicated to avoid you? 4 modules dedicate to avoid you? 5 modules dedicated to avoid you? of a the various classes? And yes, the high-sec MWD/Cloak/warp trick that works on every hull is probably a bit over the top. But that is not really a problem with agility mods, its a problem with cloaks.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.05 19:49:00 - [2] Originally by: James Lyrus Here, have some numbers as fuel for this discussion: Crow - locks an Crow in 2s, warps in 1.8s Kestrel - locks a kestrel in 3.3s, warps in 3s. Thrasher - locks in 2.3s, warps in 3.5s. Caracal - locks a in 4.7s, warps in 3.7s Drake - locks in 4.1s warps in 7.5s (brutix is similar) Raven - locks in 8.3s, warps in 10.5s With the exception of battlecruisers, a ship is marginal on locking a mirror of itself before it can warp. When doing things like locking, especially if you're in pursuit of someone, 'loading lag' is what controls whether you can do this or not. I don't know about you, but I'd rather that wasn't the case. That is indeed pretty rough. They should probably cut lock times down by as much as they chopped agility.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.24 07:14:00 - [3] Originally by: James Lyrus Anyone drafted an 'issue' for the CSM yet? No, but i've been thinking about it. I'll probably get something done after Christmas.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.01.06 16:16:00 - [4] Let me know if you think anything else should be added or removed. Text of Issue to be submitted: [Title][Issue]Lock Times/Align Times[/Title] Eve is a game that goes through many balancing changes for many different reasons. Recently there was a large change in the mechanics of speed. In order to balance out this change the agility of ships across the entire spectrum was increased significantly. This change has had some unintended consequences. Not since the original implementation of signature radius and scan resolution has there been a such a shakeup in the ability of ships to target and force another ship into combat. The nature of the shakeup is that it is now much more difficult to force targets into combat because they enter warp much faster than they did previously. Especially if they are smaller than your ship. This ability is at the heart of what makes Eve a PvP game. Without it low-sec and empire presence is unable to seriously hamper enemy movements. Empire and low-sec gate camps lose their strategic and tactical purpose. And belt production becomes even easier than it was before. This can be show by some numbers produced by James Lyrus relating to the new warp times against current lock times. Originally by: James Lyrus Here, have some numbers as fuel for this discussion: Crow - locks an Crow in 2s, warps in 1.8s Kestrel - locks a kestrel in 3.3s, warps in 3s. Thrasher - locks in 2.3s, warps in 3.5s. Caracal - locks a in 4.7s, warps in 3.7s Drake - locks in 4.1s warps in 7.5s (brutix is similar) Raven - locks in 8.3s, warps in 10.5s With the exception of battlecruisers, a ship is marginal on locking a mirror of itself before it can warp. When doing things like locking, especially if you're in pursuit of someone, 'loading lag' is what controls whether you can do this or not. I don't know about you, but I'd rather that wasn't the case. The supporters of this issue are not asking for a massive change or revert of any particular change, but simply that one thing happens. That the ability to lock a target before it leaves the grid be restored to its previous values. As i see it this can happen in one of two ways without impacting the recent speed or agility changes: Either, lock times can be reduced to correspond to the agility changes. Or the speed at which a ship is required to be traveling before entering warp can be increased such that general "in space" maneuverability is unchanged, but the time it takes to warp out is increased to previous levels. Thank you for taking the time to consider this as important enough to raise to the developers.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.01.06 16:56:00 - [5] I'll put it up tomorrow so everyone has a chance to comment. But if i don't get to it or forget, someone should steal that post and put it up there tomorrow.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.01.06 18:08:00 - [6] James didn't include module and loading lag because he (at least i assume, and rightly) that the closeness of the times said enough. And i agree that the lock time solution isn't the best. I'll make a note that this has problems with smaller ships.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.01.06 19:30:00 - [7] Originally by: SecHaul Originally by: Goumindong This change has had some unintended consequences. I support your wording and initiative in this. I quoted the above because have we confirmed that this was unintended? I would guess that it was an oversight (and I do think it's something that should be looked at), but has there been any formal communication? No, but i doubt they would roll these changes together and CCP has a history of doing things like that. E.G. Istabs original change: "Whoops, we totally didn't mean to make it so that battleships could fly as fast as interceptors"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.01.08 02:49:00 - [8] Post made as promised.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.01.10 22:54:00 - [9] Originally by: abbagabba 1) Not all ships have had their agility changed Can you tell me what ships these were? I don't really want to have to dig through everything and all the ships that I looked at (new info on page 2 of the Assembly Hall thread) did have a significant reduction in align times

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