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To CCP developers - Training all characters on an account, why not?

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Plan 7	Posted - 2008.11.19 20:50:00 - [1] Edited by: Plan 7 on 19/11/2008 20:50:41 Greetings all, I suppose I may be beating a dead horse but as a paying player I want to know why we cannot train all 3 of our characters in our account at the same time. I personally do not understand what major issues there is in doing so. I have asked around to see if doing such would have some major effect on the eve economy, the gameplay, or whatnot and no answer seems to point that there would be any adverse problem in this. So I ask CCP, why not? Why can a player not be able to train one character as a pilot, another as a miner, and another as a research person all at the same time? How does this ruin the game experience? I pay and will continue to pay but I believe I should get my moneys worth out of the game and so far no-one seems to know why this cannot be done. I ask all players to please seriously consider this and it is my intention to bring this all the way up the CCP ladder. But if there are serious complications in this, I want to know before I step upon the galactic soapbox and speak for all the Eve-Online players. So I open this up now and hope people answer this with seriousness. Thank you, Fly safe. Seeker Logos
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2008.11.19 21:15:00 - [2] Originally by: Plan 7 speak for all the Eve-Online players. First: I hereby deny you the right to speak for me. Second: Name one other MMO where you can log in, play and develop 2 characters on the same account at the same time. Third: Orginally, an account had only one character. People wanted more than one. The compromise was three characters but only one could actively train. Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Dechmeister	Posted - 2008.11.19 21:19:00 - [3] Edited by: Dechmeister on 19/11/2008 21:20:04 That would be the exact same as skilling up while the account is deactivated... makes no sense. If this was a free MMO, then sure, why not, would be fun & wouldn't hurt anyone really, but that's far from the case. Asking for this would be the equivalent of getting a free level on your alts in WoW (or any other MMO) if your main gained a level, or a skill up in a profession. It's a company, a company needs money to survive/upgrade/whatever. If you can't see the logic in that, you have a problem. We're already lucky to have an MMO that actually does things while not actually playing, imagine if you actually had to run 1000s of missions just to "skill up" your gunnery/missile/tanking... holy ****.
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.19 22:00:00 - [4] Edited by: Estel Arador on 19/11/2008 22:00:11 You definitely won't be speaking for all EVE players and if you couldn't find any problems with it you haven't thought very long on it. One problem would be that character sales/transfers would run rampant as anyone could use one character to play and train two other characters. Once the two extra characters have reached some skill goal, they can be transferred to new accounts or they can be sold to new players. CCP would lose a lot of income over this. Another problem would be that high specialisation would no longer mean anything. I could have a jack-of-all-trades character for casual playing while skilling up a dedicated Titan alt and perhaps a super Industry alt. On that note, the entire industry side of EVE might collapse since it would be no problem at all for PVP-oriented players (or any other player) to have two extra characters with maximum trade, research, and production skills.
Rosalina Sarinna Aliastra	Posted - 2008.11.20 01:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Washell Olivaw Second: Name one other MMO where you can log in, play and develop 2 characters on the same account at the same time. I'm just answering this one because you asked Sword of the New World: Grandado Espada - You train 3 chars concurrently, all the time. It's actually quite a decent game, but nothing like as much depth as EVE
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance	Posted - 2008.11.20 03:16:00 - [6] 2 Words: Character Farming. **** I would do it.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.20 05:40:00 - [7] I would find it acceptable if SP/hour was divided by the number of characters. Train 3 characters at once? Fine, but they all get 1/3 the SP/hour. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Culzarn	Posted - 2008.11.20 09:08:00 - [8] Originally by: Kahega Amielden I would find it acceptable if SP/hour was divided by the number of characters. Train 3 characters at once? Fine, but they all get 1/3 the SP/hour. Yeah that's not so bad, and 1/2 for 2 chars training.
steave435 Caldari SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.11.20 15:41:00 - [9] Originally by: Culzarn Originally by: Kahega Amielden I would find it acceptable if SP/hour was divided by the number of characters. Train 3 characters at once? Fine, but they all get 1/3 the SP/hour. Yeah that's not so bad, and 1/2 for 2 chars training. Yeah, can do that anyway atm by just swapping what character you are training with at the time, and it would even be a bit better since if you're f.e. training racial frigate 5 on each of them, it would take about a month if you trained all 3 at once, but if you trained it at one account at a time, you could use racial frigate 5 on char 1 for 10 days while it's training on char 2 and then use racial frig 5 on char 1 and 2 while it's training on char 3, and still have all of them done in the same amount of time that it would take if they all trained at once at 1 3rd of the normal speed. If you're training several short skills that you don't care much about when they complete, it would be more convenient though since you wouldn't have to switch character to change skills all the time.
highonpop Gallente Tri-Mining Corp Ethereal Spawn	Posted - 2008.11.20 19:47:00 - [10] Originally by: TimMc 2 Words: Character Farming. **** I would do it. ^^this yep, i would too...

jbob2000 Gallente Degenerate...	Posted - 2008.11.20 19:48:00 - [11] WoW lets you have as many characters per account as you want, and you can all level them up at the same time, from what i understand. They also have 11mil subscribers. If everyone dropped their alt accounts, CCP would lose all their income.
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.20 20:55:00 - [12] Originally by: jbob2000 WoW lets you have as many characters per account as you want, and you can all level them up at the same time, from what i understand. That's incorrect. In WOW you can only be logged in to one character at the time (per account) so you can only level one character at the same time (per account). It's exactly like EVE.
Lady Aja Caldari Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.11.20 21:15:00 - [13] it used to be able to be done in eve. so was logging into the same account and using more than one chr.. this was nerfed real fast once ccp realised the potentual abuse... i could see ccp doing it IF they did lvls of subsciptions. each one allowing you to train up a chr. It could be cheaper than having 2 or 3 accounts but at the end of the day you can only play one char at a time. I how ever would not mind if they did it.. would like a minnie cs pilot.
Yelan Zhou Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.20 21:32:00 - [14] You are right, you are beating a dead horse. Leave it as it is please.
Dechmeister	Posted - 2008.11.21 15:16:00 - [15] Originally by: jbob2000 WoW lets you have as many characters per account as you want, and you can all level them up at the same time, from what i understand. They also have 11mil subscribers. If everyone dropped their alt accounts, CCP would lose all their income. Take it from a guy that had no life while playing WoW (8 LVL70s between 2 accounts); what you describe CANNOT BE DONE in WoW
Paladineguru Gallente Guru Clan	Posted - 2008.11.22 04:23:00 - [16] Originally by: Washell Olivaw Third: Orginally, an account had only one character. People wanted more than one. The compromise was three characters but only one could actively train. Actually this is incorrect in beta all three characters were able to be trained on the same account ccp ended this practice at the end of beta because they want to make you pay to train per character ie they are greedy buisnessmen * please adjust the size of your signature image to no more than 400x120 - CCP Fallout
Hellinthose	Posted - 2008.11.22 04:56:00 - [17] only way to do this effectively is to have one character continue training after another has finished or divide the training time and add a penalty :/
Hellinthose	Posted - 2008.11.22 04:57:00 - [18] Edited by: Hellinthose on 22/11/2008 04:57:02 Originally by: Kahega Amielden I would find it acceptable if SP/hour was divided by the number of characters. Train 3 characters at once? Fine, but they all get 1/3 the SP/hour. + a 25% penalty for each character trained... I would despise someone who ran an account training 3 characters at the same time and getting the same virtual skillpoints as me and only haveing to check his account once per week.
JafoPBCFR One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.11.22 19:06:00 - [19] Originally by: Washell Olivaw Originally by: Plan 7 speak for all the Eve-Online players. First: I hereby deny you the right to speak for me. Second: Name one other MMO where you can log in, play and develop 2 characters on the same account at the same time. Third: Orginally, an account had only one character. People wanted more than one. The compromise was three characters but only one could actively train. question on point 2. Is there another MMO that takes aslong as it does in EVE to train Characters?
abrasive soap HOMELESS.	Posted - 2008.11.22 21:59:00 - [20] Originally by: JafoPBCFR Originally by: Washell Olivaw Originally by: Plan 7 speak for all the Eve-Online players. First: I hereby deny you the right to speak for me. Second: Name one other MMO where you can log in, play and develop 2 characters on the same account at the same time. Third: Orginally, an account had only one character. People wanted more than one. The compromise was three characters but only one could actively train. question on point 2. Is there another MMO that takes aslong as it does in EVE to train Characters? This tbh. Also, in the short term ccp would be making quite a bit of money from all the character transfers and possibly the reactivation and transfer of accounts that quit after ghost training was disabled. Win-win situation; ccp gets a surge of money during an economic crisis, players get to train multiple characters. I would be happy even if multiple character training was only temporary for say 6 months to a year.

Psychotic Penguin Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.11.23 05:16:00 - [21] Originally by: abrasive soap Originally by: JafoPBCFR Originally by: Washell Olivaw Originally by: Plan 7 speak for all the Eve-Online players. First: I hereby deny you the right to speak for me. Second: Name one other MMO where you can log in, play and develop 2 characters on the same account at the same time. Third: Orginally, an account had only one character. People wanted more than one. The compromise was three characters but only one could actively train. question on point 2. Is there another MMO that takes aslong as it does in EVE to train Characters? This tbh. Also, in the short term ccp would be making quite a bit of money from all the character transfers and possibly the reactivation and transfer of accounts that quit after ghost training was disabled. Win-win situation; ccp gets a surge of money during an economic crisis, players get to train multiple characters. I would be happy even if multiple character training was only temporary for say 6 months to a year. yea and in the long term they would only get my money for 1 acc instead of the 3 I have now. ____________________________________________________ Reality is for those who have no imagination.
Mickey Simon Noir.	Posted - 2008.11.23 07:37:00 - [22] Originally by: Dechmeister Originally by: jbob2000 WoW lets you have as many characters per account as you want, and you can all level them up at the same time, from what i understand. They also have 11mil subscribers. If everyone dropped their alt accounts, CCP would lose all their income. Take it from a guy that had no life while playing WoW (8 LVL70s between 2 accounts); what you describe CANNOT BE DONE in WoW That's correct, but you do get the rested bonus on your alts on your accounts, can create effectively as many alts as you want (albeit, not on the same server), and therefore do get bonuses which allow you to quickly level multiple characters on the one account. The same is not possible in EVE. Whether that's a good thing or not, I'm undecided. Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . .
Tac Ginaz Gallente Coalition of Nations	Posted - 2008.11.23 22:21:00 - [23] How about a different system then? Rather than training an alt, how about increasing the training rate of your character via clone-training? For example, a system could be set where you would need to : -Make a clone in a University station (you need to gain high standing with that university first). Each University in EVE could provide remote training for a certain set of skills (not all). Example: Caille University teaches Industrial Skills. Different Caille Universities around the universe teach different skills under the Industrial skill set. -Fit that clone with a Remote Learning implant. Remote learning implants are not loot drops but sold at the universities and work only AT the branches of that university (example: Caille University Remote Learning Implant). This implant comes in in 5 types just like the attribute implants. 2%, 5%, 8%, 12%, 18% The % is the % of skillpoints that clone would learn compared to your base character's stats after learning skills are applied. The implants go in the same slots as the attribute implants so a clone cannot be boosted this way. With this, if your base character attributed + learning skills has you learning 100 skillpoints an hour, the clone with the 2% implant will give you 2 skillpoints per hour towards that skill. You get the idea. And so, with this system, rather than having an alt, you could simply have a couple of remote learning clones giving you skillpoints in other skillsets (clones cannot be set to learn the same skill your active clone is learning). This system will never allow a player to out-skill a player who is having his main char skill on that same skillset as 18% is the best remote training will allow per skill. But at least it does help out players to learn non-critical, yet important skills to have without interrupting their main line of specialization... and better yet, could be used to get that annoying box 5 skill that takes 31 days with your main clone ... all the while your main clone is skilling up on the supporting skills for that damn box 5. All in all happy players, no harm done, little potential as a character farming tool. ------------------------------------------------- Re-Design Stealth Bomber Weapons!
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.23 22:37:00 - [24] Originally by: Tac Ginaz How about a different system then? Quite a complicated system; why not just give a flat SP/hour boost - it's simpler and has about the same effect (training stuff and something else 1/5th the speed on the side vs training stuff 20% faster - in both systems you'll have the same amount of SP at any time, only in the simple system you'll have more useful SP at any time)
abrasive soap HOMELESS.	Posted - 2008.11.23 23:39:00 - [25] Originally by: Psychotic Penguin yea and in the long term they would only get my money for 1 acc instead of the 3 I have now. But then you wouldn't be able to double box or triple box or whatever you do. I would like to be able to train an alt on the same account just to be able to skill it for a single race. People that use the other accounts as scouts, falcons alts, or as their own mining op would still need to have multiple active accounts.
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.11.24 03:30:00 - [26] Problems with multiple character training: 1) Characters should be played and not grown in a vat. That's part of the reason ghost training was removed. 2) Skill limited professions (R & D agents, Manufacturing Slots, Research Slots, Market Order Slots) would be trivially circumvented by adding in extra characters without sacrificing anything on your main. Instead of having to take about 5 months to get a pair of alts up to Research Project Management 5 and running 6 R & D agents...the whole time of which, your main isn't training ANYTHING, you just get get a whole bunch for basically free. 3) It would remove the sacrifice of choice. Example: If you want to spend a few weeks bulking up on Refining and Refinery Operations 5 in order to get waste-free refines/reprocessing, you could just throw that onto an alt while your main continues to train combat skills or whatever...you get all the benefits of maxxed out refining skills, without having to lose anything in the process. There's lots of other areas where this could be equally exploited. 4) As mentioned, character sales. 5) Need a freighter alt? No problem! Instead of your main losing 2 months or more getting <race> industrial 5 and the other pre-reqs, you just set to train, and away you go. Multiple character training is just a generally very bad idea, unless doing so inflicted substantial penalties on total training time (ie, if it would take an hour for two characters to train a skill each seperately, it should take 3 hours for them to do it simultaneously). A big penalty makes it impractical to abuse the system growing alts, but still allowing the possibility of doing it if you really want to....like if you're going on vacation for a month and don't have a single skill on one character that will take long enough (and that you actually WANT to train), you could split between 2 chars to use up all the time, and get some benefit out of it.
Lady Aja Caldari Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.11.24 04:24:00 - [27] no matter how many times i see this thread all that i can think of is... 1 main chr. 2 alts uber specced. be it invention, pvp, industrial or what ever! if ccp did allow it. and i think it would prolly draw more players i would be abusing the system... 5 alts in total. one uber hauler. one uber miner. one minnie char, one gal chr and one amarr chr ontop of what i already have. only draw back... one character to finance all 6 chars. i sure as hell would not be buying gtcs to sell for isk. anyway my point. possible abuse. upto ccp altho would make for a great selling point as you can only use ONE char at a time per account.
Ghoest	Posted - 2008.11.24 04:25:00 - [28] "whu not?" Real life money - duh. If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.


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