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Market Buy/Sell order bots?

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Salacir Khan Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.11.21 14:22:00 - [31] Edited by: Salacir Khan on 21/11/2008 14:31:35 Edited by: Salacir Khan on 21/11/2008 14:24:40 Originally by: Mjolnor Originally by: Victor Valka If we have demand, there is profit to be made in providing supply and ,for potential suppliers, there are no moral obstructions. So why is there no supply? I'll go with "not feasible within the current system", therefor, there are no market bots. Or maybe there is? It's on the internetz[/url] And yes, I've reported the site where I found that to CCP. If this aint some kind of scam, I think we would all be better off if the "Export XML Data" Query would be limited to once per day... Stilb bad though...
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.21 14:27:00 - [32] Originally by: Salacir Khan Edited by: Salacir Khan on 21/11/2008 14:14:15 Originally by: DrAtomic How can everyone be so sure there are no market bots? There are mining bots, hauling bots, npc bots, local monitoring bots, autopilot to zero bots, skill changing bots... And thats just what I found whilst using google for 5 minutes... makes me sad really... Even with my rather limited Programing Skills, I think i should be able to write something. I think what prevents Market Bots to exist is the fact that its (probably) rather easy for CCP to become aware off. All they would need to do is to check if someoneis spamming hits Hits the "Download XML Data". This would have to be done very frequently, all day long to make it work. Meh, humans can't time it accuratly so you build in access randomization timers in order for it to have an irrational patern. Irrational patern matches humans normally.
Mjolnor	Posted - 2008.11.21 14:29:00 - [33] Originally by: Salacir Khan If this aint some kind of scam, I think we would all be better off if the "Export XML Data" Query would be limited to once per day... Stilb bad though... Could you edit out the link Salacir? Don't want CCP to throw a tantrum ;)
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.21 14:30:00 - [34] Edited by: DrAtomic on 21/11/2008 14:30:54 Originally by: Mjolnor Originally by: Salacir Khan If this aint some kind of scam, I think we would all be better off if the "Export XML Data" Query would be limited to once per day... Stilb bad though... Could you edit out the link Salacir? Don't want CCP to throw a tantrum ;) Why would they? It's a screenshot posted on eve-files, he took out the references to the programsname and/or download location.
Mjolnor	Posted - 2008.11.21 14:34:00 - [35] Originally by: DrAtomic Edited by: DrAtomic on 21/11/2008 14:30:54 Originally by: Mjolnor Originally by: Salacir Khan If this aint some kind of scam, I think we would all be better off if the "Export XML Data" Query would be limited to once per day... Stilb bad though... Could you edit out the link Salacir? Don't want CCP to throw a tantrum ;) Why would they? It's a screenshot posted on eve-files, he took out the references to the programsname and/or download location. I cropped the screenshot I found so the name of the program wasn't in it, but looking over the ToS it states that; #23. You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players. You may not communicate the existence of any exploitable bug to others directly or through a public forum. Bugs should be reported through the bug reporting tool on our website. A screenshot is kinda communicating the existence, but then again, there a tons of threads talking about the other bots out there on eBay and stuff, so meh.
Salacir Khan Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.11.21 14:38:00 - [36] Originally by: DrAtomic Originally by: Salacir Khan Edited by: Salacir Khan on 21/11/2008 14:14:15 Originally by: DrAtomic How can everyone be so sure there are no market bots? There are mining bots, hauling bots, npc bots, local monitoring bots, autopilot to zero bots, skill changing bots... And thats just what I found whilst using google for 5 minutes... makes me sad really... Even with my rather limited Programing Skills, I think i should be able to write something. I think what prevents Market Bots to exist is the fact that its (probably) rather easy for CCP to become aware off. All they would need to do is to check if someoneis spamming hits Hits the "Download XML Data". This would have to be done very frequently, all day long to make it work. Meh, humans can't time it accuratly so you build in access randomization timers in order for it to have an irrational patern. Irrational patern matches humans normally. You are absolutly right. I edited the part out where i was mentioning that because of the possible EULA Violation (giving Hints)... Maybe too cautious, cause this isnt really Rocket Science, but anyways. There are other ways even to stealth this kind of actions... but im better keeping that off this board also...
dr doooo	Posted - 2008.11.21 14:41:00 - [37] Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: dr doooo Originally by: Victor Valka Whatever argument you have for existence of market bots, eBay refutes them all. I don't think that is really a valid argument. A bot could make a farmer a tidy little real life income. With the limited skills needed for trading, they could be back in action with a new char straight away if they were caught. If they sold it on ebay though, the whole market would be broken pretty quick, and the system changed, making their bot redundant. It really is a valid argument. Consider these points: 1) There is no shortage in variety of mining bots for sale on eBay or elsewhere on the Internet. 2) From (1), it is clear that there are many competing developers working on bots for EVE Online. 3) Aforementioned developers are motivated by real money and care little for what happens with our Internet spaces-ships. 4) There is, obviously, interest in market bots. As shown by various threads on these forums. I.e. there is demand for the product. If we have demand, there is profit to be made in providing supply and ,for potential suppliers, there are no moral obstructions. So why is there no supply? I'll go with "not feasible within the current system", therefor, there are no market bots. I think you may be right with the 'not feasible within the current system' bit, not sure about the rest though. With mining bots, there is a limit to how much you can mine per hour, and you are not really in direct competition with other miners. Limited mining income, together with the fact that you can sell thousands of them without busting the game, makes it reasonable to sell them. With a trading bot, you could run a few of them fairly discretely yourself, and make 10's of billions of isk a week to sell on, and easily set up on new accounts if caught. Trading is direct competition with other players. If you sold hundreds of these things, let alone thousands, the markets would be obviously broken pretty quick, with all the legit traders up in arms, demanding some kind of action. Things would change and your bot would pretty soon be redundant. It's nothing to do with morals about internet spaceships. It would just be common sense, and the best way of maximising real life $ from your bot.
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.11.21 14:46:00 - [38] Edited by: Shintai on 21/11/2008 14:47:15 Plenty of tradebots unfortunately. Usually you could earn good money using their weak sides. But that seems mostly fixed. And yes, the export botton is the key for this abuse. -------------------------------------- Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Saladin Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.11.21 15:04:00 - [39] I can't tell if its a person or not, but I am happy people are remaining vigilant. The macro'ers are working hard to innovate new ways to screw us over, so we need more Blade Runners like the OP
Julian Lynq	Posted - 2008.11.21 15:24:00 - [40] http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0811/wineve.jpg
Salacir Khan Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.11.21 15:39:00 - [41] Originally by: Julian Lynq http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0811/wineve.jpg This one is not working anymore since the Quantum Rise Patch. The Remove BoB Function is broken and remove Goons wokrs at fisrt, but they reapear after Downtime :( (just tested it on SiSi)
Emi Raaf Emi Raaf's Corporation	Posted - 2008.11.21 16:10:00 - [42] Also for some people: You cannot check the the name of a seller by buying from them. If you buy from someone, the log will say "market transaction authorized by <your character name>". However it's possible to check people behind buy orders, since the log will say "<their character name> bought stuff from <your character name>"
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core	Posted - 2008.11.21 16:28:00 - [43] petitioning has not much use either.. just like the macro ratters they dont do anything about them. even tough you give 100% proof.. the awnser you will get is thanks.. well look in to it.. and then close your petition not even being able to add more proof to your petition.. i would almoste say if you cant beat them join em.. but hey its just not my thing..
Cassius Longinus Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2008.11.21 16:50:00 - [44] Originally by: Emi Raaf Also for some people: You cannot check the the name of a seller by buying from them. Check the API transaction log. Here is an example (with names removed) of a purchase I made: <row transactionDateTime="2008-11-07 02:07:00" transactionID="791234585" // Munged quantity="3" typeName="Light Neutron Blaster II" typeID="3178" price="500000.00" clientID="271234145" //Munged clientName="Wxxxxxxxxxxxxk" //Munged stationID="60003760" stationName="Jita IV - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant" transactionType="buy" transactionFor="personal"/> I probably didn't need to munge up the client name and ID, but it doesn't matter- if you look at your own API output, you'll see the transaction you care about.
Cristl	Posted - 2008.11.21 17:20:00 - [45] Originally by: Cassius Longinus Check the API transaction log. How do you do that?
Cassius Longinus Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2008.11.21 17:25:00 - [46] Edited by: Cassius Longinus on 21/11/2008 17:25:13 Originally by: Cristl Originally by: Cassius Longinus Check the API transaction log. How do you do that? Well, api information is documented here : http://wiki.eve-id.net/Main_Page Under the "Other Projects" section, you can see a number of tools which use the API. I'm sure any of them related to the market allow you to see your transaction/journal logs. I can't personally recommend any particular tool over another as I don't use them. You'll just have to do a bit of research. Look for forum threads relating to the tools of interest. Most of them have been announced and discussed somewhere on these forums.
Kao Lei	Posted - 2008.11.21 20:41:00 - [47] Edited by: Kao Lei on 21/11/2008 20:44:06 Eh? your transaction log clearly shows who you bought stuff from. The other party is listed there as the 'client'.... why would you need the API for this? There's no difference in the transaction log if it's from a sell order or for a buy order.... only the color is different.... I surely prefer the transactions log above the Journal. Transactions log tells you a) Item traded b) Price it was traded for c) Quantity d) Total transaction sum e) Client f) location g) time it took place the journal tells you... you got/spend some money at this time and it was related to something with the market

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