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Drago Wolfson
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Posted - 2008.11.22 22:39:00 -
[1]
As a Caldari Missile Wh*re I have suffered as a result of the Quantum Rise expansion missile damage nerf. Needed but went too far IMO. So.....knowing this ain't gonna change anytime soon, how do I improve my chances of killing NPC frigates in missions quicker (sometimes a necessity when you have 4/5/6 scrammers on you)? Drones work good but not as quick as I would like....and my cruises now suck, I cannot actually kill a Merc Wingman with 6 Arby Cruise Launchers and standard missiles when they shield boost.......
Please don't say skills as I have 2 mill SP in missiles......yes they could be better but not by much....all L4 or 5.....
So I thought...Target Painter......duly trained and fitted....tried in a L4 mission. So a group volley of 3 Cataclysm Cruises are fired at two identical Merc Wingman at very similar ranges. One is painted the other isn't......the non-painted target takes 615 damage per group on shields, the painted target takes 150....
Experiment repeated a good number of times.....and on EVERY occasion I am doing less damage to the frig when painted than when not.....
Can someone please explain why?
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Trellish
Ten Ton Hammer Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2008.11.22 22:51:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Trellish on 22/11/2008 22:51:39
Originally by: Drago Wolfson
As a Caldari Missile Wh*re I have suffered as a result of the Quantum Rise expansion missile damage nerf. Needed but went too far IMO. So.....knowing this ain't gonna change anytime soon, how do I improve my chances of killing NPC frigates in missions quicker (sometimes a necessity when you have 4/5/6 scrammers on you)? Drones work good but not as quick as I would like....and my cruises now suck, I cannot actually kill a Merc Wingman with 6 Arby Cruise Launchers and standard missiles when they shield boost.......
Please don't say skills as I have 2 mill SP in missiles......yes they could be better but not by much....all L4 or 5.....
So I thought...Target Painter......duly trained and fitted....tried in a L4 mission. So a group volley of 3 Cataclysm Cruises are fired at two identical Merc Wingman at very similar ranges. One is painted the other isn't......the non-painted target takes 615 damage per group on shields, the painted target takes 150....
Experiment repeated a good number of times.....and on EVERY occasion I am doing less damage to the frig when painted than when not.....
Can someone please explain why?
Stop firing the grouped weapons at one target and the nongrouped at the other :P
All kidding aside... dunno what's up. Corpmate and I tested and found the painted smaller target had more dmg on it. My best guess is that while you had similar ranges you did not have similar speeds/transversals.
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Drago Wolfson
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Posted - 2008.11.22 23:17:00 -
[3]
Well target orientation etc. was my thought but without being certain, it seemed as tthough the two target geometries were broadly similar based on closure rate.....damn odd. Maybe I need to shoot a few at one of my corpmates and perhaps do a more rigorous test. But I DID repeat this half a dozen times and was getting the same kind of results against Moa Merc Commanders too.. ??????
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Daergaar
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.11.22 23:50:00 -
[4]
To make your test more consistent, try shooting ONE (1) missile at the painted target, see how much damage it does, then shoot ONE (1) missile at the unpainted target of the same type and see how much damage it does.
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Ki Tarra
Caldari Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.23 00:04:00 -
[5]
So your shooting yor cruise missiles at a target that is 10x smaller than the ships those missiles were meant to be used on and are suprised that it doesn't work well?
Your using a module that is designed to increase signature radius by ~30% and are suprised that it doesn't make up for the 900% difference in size?
If you want to kill frigates with missiles, fit assualt launchers.
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Shandelzare
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Posted - 2008.11.23 01:00:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ki Tarra So your shooting yor cruise missiles at a target that is 10x smaller than the ships those missiles were meant to be used on and are suprised that it doesn't work well?
Your using a module that is designed to increase signature radius by ~30% and are suprised that it doesn't make up for the 900% difference in size?
If you want to kill frigates with missiles, fit assualt launchers.
He wasn't really complaining that cruises do crap damage against frigates, but he's wondering why the painted target (with that 30% larger sig radius) takes less damage from his missiles than the identical unpainted target, with smaller sig radius.
1 possibility might be that your unpainted target was mwd:ing while the other was not, I also noticed (pre-patch) that shooting at identical rats closing in at the same speeds, the one further away from me would take much more damage, the same type of frig rat (same name, same bounty) could pop from 1 volley from like 80km away, but would take only like 50% shield damage when it was closer than 20km
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.23 01:13:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ki Tarra So your shooting yor cruise missiles at a target that is 10x smaller than the ships those missiles were meant to be used on and are suprised that it doesn't work well?
Your using a module that is designed to increase signature radius by ~30% and are suprised that it doesn't make up for the 900% difference in size?
If you want to kill frigates with missiles, fit assualt launchers.
Fail @ reading comprehension.
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NetkoTheDarkMaster
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Posted - 2008.11.23 01:51:00 -
[8]
I just tried the thingyes today with a caracal. On first target with no painters i did 150dmg and on the other painted with 3 650dmg really no idea how painters could decrease ur dmg.
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Hellinthose
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Posted - 2008.11.23 04:32:00 -
[9]
Originally by: NetkoTheDarkMaster I just tried the thingyes today with a caracal. On first target with no painters i did 150dmg and on the other painted with 3 650dmg really no idea how painters could decrease ur dmg.
Umm they dont.
Perhaps your other targets were doing a faster rate of speed?
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.11.23 07:54:00 -
[10]
I have 2 mil SP in missiles, and that's not saying much... most are lvl 3 or lvl 2.
You will now have to look at velocity of your target and transversal velocity (or radial, whichever is easier for you to work with)
Target painters do work, best way for you to test it would probably be to go into a lvl 1 or 2 mission and let the ships you aggro get to a stable orbit around you before testing damage on each with the TP and without it.
btw I'm telling you TPs work because they help out my 10mil SP in gunnery amazingly ------------
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
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Posted - 2008.11.23 11:01:00 -
[11]
The new missile damage formula now takes into account signature radius and target's speed.
A lot of missile damage is lost if your target is traveling above your explosion velocity. Increasing your explosion velocity with skills/ship bonuses/rigs/implants and your missiles will damage moving targets better.
However, painters increase a target's signature size. If you are shooting an oversized missile at an undersized target, the target painter will boost your damage because your target will be effectively bigger. This also boosts your missile damage output on moving targets since that target has a bigger signature radius.
*** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Eka Lawrencia
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.23 11:08:00 -
[12]
I'm one shotting merc wingmen (6 cruises). No target painter needed. Wasn't that much different from before patch.
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Jeramon Castro
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Posted - 2008.11.23 11:16:00 -
[13]
Javelin Torpedoes on this bad boy Golem, no issues with anything tbh.
I still: Two-shot Frigates One-shot Destroyers 4-shot Cruisers 2-shot Battlecruisers wtfpwn Battleships Use med T2 drones against Assault Frigates, inties etc. or HACs if i need the extra firepower.
Cruise missiles never had the punch I was after.
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Furb Killer
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.23 11:20:00 -
[14]
I am pretty sure a target painter will increase the dps of your missiles on small target by roughly 30%. But too lazy to do the math now.
Having said that, use drones. ---------------------------------------------
Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
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Drago Wolfson
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Posted - 2008.11.24 23:22:00 -
[15]
Thank you all for your replies....looks like I need to perform some controlled testing to check this out.
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Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2008.11.25 14:48:00 -
[16]
If you're using a raven, try fitting 2 frigate sized guns in your 2 utility highslots. (electron blasters, 200mm ac's, whatever really) -------------------------- NOTR How to Fail at Eve
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Mikael Mechka
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Posted - 2008.11.25 14:59:00 -
[17]
Hmmm... you said you don't want people to tell you to put more SP in missiles, fair enough. Target painting should certainly help you with the reduced damage vs smaller targets but...
You said you where using drones too? Glad to hear it. Personally, I'd suggest train more drone skills, especially DRONE INTERFACING. 20% more drone damage per level. If drones are taking a while to kill the frigs, remember you light drones work best against them, and a few levels of drone interfacing will help your drones chew through those frigs.
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KhaniKirai
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Posted - 2008.11.25 17:05:00 -
[18]
Turn column: velocity, ON in your overview, so you can see the speed of the target. Its most likely, that the speed difference is causing the problem.
And yes missiles are overnerved and there are not many skills, that helps for example targetpainting. With signature focusing IV, you get like 36 percent sig bonus on a t2 painter. Problem is often, the ship signatures are already split up between certain boundaries, that target painters barely help to overcome these boundaries.
I just want a missile platform launcher, that is BS sized and gets bonus from raven and such, but just fires standard missiles :D
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2008.11.25 19:24:00 -
[19]
I think I know what's happening.
You TP the first frig, this aggresses it, and it starts moving toward you. You fire on both at the same time. However, the TP'd frig is at max velocity headed at you, while the other one is just running around at cruising speed, which won't reduce DPS much.
Time to train up your drone skills, methinks though. -------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn
I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.11.25 19:28:00 -
[20]
TP's ftw
Not only that... gang benefits from it as well.
^_^
They make great boosters for 1400 mm's cannons.
MWHAHAHA
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Wardeneo
DEADLY RENEGADE ELITE ASSASSIN MERC SQUAD Rogue Intentions
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Posted - 2008.11.25 22:31:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Drago Wolfson
As a Caldari Missile Wh*re
ur right u are...
Originally by: Drago Wolfson I have suffered as a result of the Quantum Rise expansion missile damage nerf.
and ur a whiner!!!! missles didnt get damage nerfed it just means ur navy issue raven/golem cant wtfpwn cruisers n small ships in general with torps n cruise!!
wardeneo
ps FLAME ME!!!!
*SIG*
Real Pro's Fly Minmitar!
Y? - Coz We Look Awsome! |
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