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Signature Petition - Login traps need to be made an Exploit

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Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.11.23 07:12:00 - [31] Originally by: Woodwraith Originally by: Akita T * No dissapearing ships after logoff - you can ALWAYS be probed and killed if you left your ship in space (and you had no cloak fited) So how the hell are you supposed to safely EVER log off in space? You're supposed to NEVER safely logoff in space... unless you have a (covops) cloak on. You can dock at a station if you want 100% safety. Or use a regular cloak for some half-decent protection (if nobody's actively looking for you hard enough, you might get away with it). _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.11.23 07:16:00 - [32] Originally by: Dantes Revenge So you're saying that if I have a legitimate DC, I would undoubtedly come back to a pod instead of my ship. Since my ship was unoccupied, it is there for the taking and anyone can just board it and fly off, leaving me without insurance payout either. If you have a legitimate DC, pray you're not in hostile territory, or that you have a cloak on your ship... or that you can reconnect soon (before hostiles get to you). If you are found, your ship IS occupied, so all they can do is blow it up... and you WOULD get the insurance. Your pod would then make an emergency warp-off, and be killed if they persist in searching for you. Does it make it harsh ? Yes. Does it make it interesting ? Sure does... talk about policing your own alliance's space, or hunting for sweatshop 0.0 NPCers... _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.11.23 07:21:00 - [33] Originally by: Cat Molina My god... that is the most unintelligent thing I've heard here. And that's saying a lot. You need to wake the **** up and realize that real life is supposed to be more important than Eve. Your suggestion is just unbelievable. So... on those sleepless nights when I used Eve (amid an Empire war) to stay awake, I should lose my ship if I have to log off? Yes. Logging off, disconnecting or going AFK should be treated almost the same. The only "advantage" you get is the cloak auto-turn-on (if you have one) and the "emergency warp". If you can't be bothered to fit a cloak, suffer the consequences. If you want disconnect/AFK insurance, get a cloak, and suffer the penalties a cloak gives you. Sounds like a freakig fair trade-off. _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.11.23 07:21:00 - [34] Edited by: Tiirae on 23/11/2008 07:23:28 Two things: - As mentioned earlier in the thread, when local is nerfed nobody is going to need to do logon traps anyway. And if they do, you won't be able to tell. AFAYK they were just elsewhere in system and suddenly warped to you. - In actual fact logon traps happen far less often than people think. I've lost count of the number of times I've been accused of logonski when my gang has just jumped through a gate and warped to a cloaked covops who was scouting the target for us. If you really want people to scream 'logonski' hysterically at you, just use a covert cyno and a blackops. How does the OP know that he's been logonski'd? In short, it's not really much of a problem, and within the next expansion or two it won't be a problem at all.
Gentle Wind	Posted - 2008.11.23 08:58:00 - [35] Edited by: Gentle Wind on 23/11/2008 08:59:29 Edited by: Gentle Wind on 23/11/2008 08:59:01 Sorry if I miss the point of this thread but I'm just a noob. It seems there are 2 problems. Log in position and log out position. CCP could make it so that when you log off your ship stays in that location for 60 seconds. After 60 seconds your ship is ported to the nearest station and docked. If you want to log off safely then you must dock first. This eliminates the logging off while in battle ploy. When logging in you start at either the station you logged off in or if you logged off in space you start at the station where your ship was ported to after the 60 second timer. This eliminates the login trap.
Saraah Leeown	Posted - 2008.11.23 09:26:00 - [36] Originally by: Tiirae Edited by: Tiirae on 23/11/2008 07:23:28 Two things: - As mentioned earlier in the thread, when local is nerfed nobody is going to need to do logon traps anyway. And if they do, you won't be able to tell. AFAYK they were just elsewhere in system and suddenly warped to you. - In actual fact logon traps happen far less often than people think. I've lost count of the number of times I've been accused of logonski when my gang has just jumped through a gate and warped to a cloaked covops who was scouting the target for us. If you really want people to scream 'logonski' hysterically at you, just use a covert cyno and a blackops. How does the OP know that he's been logonski'd? In short, it's not really much of a problem, and within the next expansion or two it won't be a problem at all. Pretty much this Until you can actually set an ambush without local giving away your presence and numbers, I believe a logon trap is perfectly legitimate way around a broken game mechanic.
TheEndofTheWorld Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.11.23 09:58:00 - [37] I know that all those 0.0 small roaming are still so overpowered, even after all those nerfs (webs, gates, nanos, local, hp, rigs etc), so it is obviously needed to nerf them even further by removing the ability to log in space. :/ Seriously, those who are suggesting to nerf 0.0 roaming... have you ever roamed yourself? (with gangs smaller than 5-10)
Karanth Gallente Independent Fleet Space Exploration and Logistic Services	Posted - 2008.11.23 10:04:00 - [38] tl;dr version: I suck at empire wars, please CCP prohibit my enemies from logging on since it's not fair and I can't win if they do. --- Wheel of Whineage
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2008.11.23 10:11:00 - [39] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Khemul Zula CCP should not dictate when you can and cannot log-in. All they need to do is to warp you to a random spot within 1M KM of the log-off spot. There, you can still log in, and logon traps took a big hit with the nerfbat. Pretty much this. I'm surprised the OP was suggesting to force-warp people to celestials at zero, makes no sense at all and as others pointed out.. will create alot more problem than login traps ever would. Makes alot more sense to e-warp people 1k (or 1mil or whatever) km from where they logged off.
Wyn Pharoh Gallente Crystalline INC The Black Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.23 10:12:00 - [40] Have you considered the option of not walking into the trap? Suppose you fight a corp known for doing this in the same system repeatedly...Do you really expect me to wipe your tears for you going there in the first place? If you are in a belt and 'minding your own business' when a hostile appears...if he is mysteriously not there when you return, am I supposed to say, jeesh, he logged back right on top of you, and now I'm supposed to care because 'Local' said you where safe 5 seconds ago? Its a know mechanic and only your own lack of willingness to adapt to survive makes this a problem. If your war targets are all logged off, waiting for you to take their bait, then they are not shooting you, not farming isk, not accomplishing ANYTHING more than a TS/Vent circlejerk. Problem solved. Get back to mining, running missions or whatever you were doing before your annoying STATIONARY war targets wasted their isk to Dec you. And if you and your mates are trapped in your HQ, and you don't have a warp-to safespot directly in front of that station, then maybe you won't make that mistake again. Maybe if Custer hadn't been arrogant, ill prepared and had given his opponent any credit what-so-ever, he may not have led his troops to their massacre either. Up to you of course. Remember, Its A TRAP! Smash the State...and Have A Nice Day!!!
Kerfira	Posted - 2008.11.23 11:46:00 - [41] IF CCP wanted to fix login traps, all they had to do was disable weapons/scramblers/etc. for 30 seconds after login... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
mirel yirrin Gallente Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.11.23 11:47:00 - [42] I agree with whoever in the thread has the same opinions as I do. ---------------------------------
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises	Posted - 2008.11.23 11:51:00 - [43] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Khemul Zula CCP should not dictate when you can and cannot log-in. All they need to do is to warp you to a random spot within 1M KM of the log-off spot. There, you can still log in, and logon traps took a big hit with the nerfbat. cannot be that far. Or just log in log out log in log out becomes the perfect " I am unkillable, and can wait hours like that till my friends are here" button. Just make log in put you at random 50 km from where you were. Its enough. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Bald Rikk The Legendary Fleet	Posted - 2008.11.23 12:34:00 - [44] Originally by: Kerfira IF CCP wanted to fix login traps, all they had to do was disable weapons/scramblers/etc. for 30 seconds after login... I can see how this would be an effective method. ---------------------------------------------- Baldrikk CCP Navigator : - "Can I have your stuff", "stuff, can I haz it?" or any variation of these sayings is considered spam.
Woodwraith Total Mayhem.	Posted - 2008.11.23 15:15:00 - [45] Originally by: Akita T You're supposed to NEVER safely logoff in space... unless you have a (covops) cloak on. You can dock at a station if you want 100% safety. Or use a regular cloak for some half-decent protection (if nobody's actively looking for you hard enough, you might get away with it). 1. Not everyone is in a rapier or a falcon, i know it seems like it sometimes, but they're not. 2. Most systems in game dont have a station, if i'm really up to shenanigans, there may not be a dockable station for thirty jumps, depending on how much coffee ive had and how far ive been roaming. If I go roaming out into the middle of branch, how do you suppose i stop playing? Fly the thirty jumps back to Venal/PureBlind?? You keep making posts about PvP mechanics from a High-sec oriented pov, and your an inadvertent troll in all of them.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.11.23 19:24:00 - [46] Originally by: Woodwraith Most systems in game dont have a station, if i'm really up to shenanigans, there may not be a dockable station for thirty jumps, depending on how much coffee ive had and how far ive been roaming. If I go roaming out into the middle of branch, how do you suppose i stop playing? Fly the thirty jumps back to Venal/PureBlind?? Fly the 30 jumps OR gamble with the fact you have a regular cloak on, hoping nobody would manage to locate you in time OR half-consider your ship dead when you logout. _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Khemul Zula Amarr Black Plague.	Posted - 2008.11.23 19:43:00 - [47] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Woodwraith Most systems in game dont have a station, if i'm really up to shenanigans, there may not be a dockable station for thirty jumps, depending on how much coffee ive had and how far ive been roaming. If I go roaming out into the middle of branch, how do you suppose i stop playing? Fly the thirty jumps back to Venal/PureBlind?? Fly the 30 jumps OR gamble with the fact you have a regular cloak on, hoping nobody would manage to locate you in time OR half-consider your ship dead when you logout. I do believe the petition queue is now living in fear of a day when this becomes a reality. I hear it's waking up in the middle of the night screaming something about no more reimbursement petitions. Luckily for the queue CCP is extremely unlikely to implement this idea. Just imagine the forum whines they'd get if the game really worked this way. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Did I really need certificates to tell me I lack Basic Core Competency?
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.11.23 20:02:00 - [48] Originally by: Khemul Zula no more reimbursement petitions I totally agree with that idea too _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2008.11.23 20:12:00 - [49] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Woodwraith Most systems in game dont have a station, if i'm really up to shenanigans, there may not be a dockable station for thirty jumps, depending on how much coffee ive had and how far ive been roaming. If I go roaming out into the middle of branch, how do you suppose i stop playing? Fly the thirty jumps back to Venal/PureBlind?? Fly the 30 jumps OR gamble with the fact you have a regular cloak on, hoping nobody would manage to locate you in time OR half-consider your ship dead when you logout. Your time on Sisi is starting to show. On Tranq, ships do take a long time to earn. If this change was put through Eve would no longer seem fun to me, because it would shift completely from casual/hardcore to hardcore in an instant.
Khemul Zula Amarr Black Plague.	Posted - 2008.11.23 20:24:00 - [50] Edited by: Khemul Zula on 23/11/2008 20:25:11 Originally by: Gnomes Rock Originally by: Akita T Fly the 30 jumps OR gamble with the fact you have a regular cloak on, hoping nobody would manage to locate you in time OR half-consider your ship dead when you logout. Your time on Sisi is starting to show. On Tranq, ships do take a long time to earn. If this change was put through Eve would no longer seem fun to me, because it would shift completely from casual/hardcore to hardcore in an instant. I have to agree. Earning ships takes a long time. My buy orders take days to get filled. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Did I really need certificates to tell me I lack Basic Core Competency?
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.11.23 20:26:00 - [51] Edited by: Akita T on 23/11/2008 20:35:09 Well, they COULD introduce a new highslot mod for that "The parking module" When activated, it "shuts down" your ship and covops-cloak grade hides it vs probe/scan search attempts BUT it keeps the ship visually visible on overview if you're in the same grid. You can also eject from and board an empty "parked" ship. Module auto-activates (if fited and online) after any emergency warp (post disconnect/quit) or whenever you eject from your ship... and stays active always until manually disabled (or auto-disabled whenever you log in while in a parked ship as an option on the module). The drawback would be the long "power-up" sequence afterwards, say 1 minute or more (starting from the character selection and system loading start in case of auto-disable option selected), during which your ship would be fully visible/scannable but completely unresponsive to any commands (with the complementary 30 seconds of session change invulnerability). _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.11.23 20:40:00 - [52] Originally by: Crumplecorn A per-system login queue. Someone else tries to log in at the same time in the same system, you are put in a queue, one person admitted every ten second. Session changes are not affected. Nobody login @ jita. @op Im sorry but this sounds more like a clever tactic then anything else. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe.
Silver Wizard	Posted - 2008.11.23 20:46:00 - [53] Why not put a delay on locking of say 3 minutes when you log back in if you have been off more than 10 minutes? That would eliminate some of the suprise of this tactic. If you are tackled by a single ship..and stay tackled for 3 minutes...you are dead anyway.
Justice Starcatcher H A V O C	Posted - 2008.11.23 21:56:00 - [54] What I want is a "I was here" sign that shows up on the scanner for one hour after logging off. You can't scan it out, and it won't say who or what was there, it would only say a player logged off within scan range of your ship within the last hour. What the...
SoC Darkord	Posted - 2008.11.23 22:29:00 - [55] Originally by: Justice Starcatcher What I want is a "I was here" sign that shows up on the scanner for one hour after logging off. You can't scan it out, and it won't say who or what was there, it would only say a player logged off within scan range of your ship within the last hour. That, is a damn good idea. would add to the issue of scanner lag tho, with the current scanner anyway
Gonada Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.23 22:54:00 - [56] noobs rampage, news at 11! seriously, like a few smarter have said allready, the actual amount of logon traps are very few, and are usually in the domain of carebear. also , when local gets nerfed its a moot point thirdly learn to play the frikin game allready. i will not sign a petition at all that is so badly thought out and seems to be driven by tears. and in your first paragraph, you see your fallicy: search agents can and do tell you the local area that others are logged of, or are at within a certain time period. this game isnt noob friendly. so dont be a noob :) Please, jump into traffic
nahtoh Caldari StrikerCorp Dark Trinity Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.23 23:00:00 - [57] Originally by: Tiirae Edited by: Tiirae on 23/11/2008 07:23:28 Two things: - As mentioned earlier in the thread, when local is nerfed nobody is going to need to do logon traps anyway. And if they do, you won't be able to tell. AFAYK they were just elsewhere in system and suddenly warped to you. - In actual fact logon traps happen far less often than people think. I've lost count of the number of times I've been accused of logonski when my gang has just jumped through a gate and warped to a cloaked covops who was scouting the target for us. If you really want people to scream 'logonski' hysterically at you, just use a covert cyno and a blackops. How does the OP know that he's been logonski'd? In short, it's not really much of a problem, and within the next expansion or two it won't be a problem at all. wham all war targets going green at bottom right of screen...at lest for empire wars. Which the OP seemed to be refering to... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Wyn Pharoh Gallente Crystalline INC The Black Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.24 00:07:00 - [58] TBH, a login trap is not much different than a gate camp. Gate camps work because the opposition lurks on another local than your own. Should we declare their cloaked scout on your side of the gate an expoliter because he has access to your field of vision, and is informing his mates on the otherside of the gate that you are about to make yourself their next gank? I certainly hated my first login trap experience, but I quickly realized that its an avoidable experience for the most part, and also had to admit that someone elses teamwork and preparation cost me a ship. So now that we know your war targets would rather be logged than actually in game, get back to ignoring the pests and profiting while they exchange p.orn on Vent... Smash the State...and Have A Nice Day!!!
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.11.24 00:10:00 - [59] you guy have completely forgotten about the massive fleet battles which have been taking place, where 1200 people suddendly get kicked from the server and trying to get back on, they arnt intentionally leaving the game but under all your mechanics when they start to log in in a steady stream they will be slaughtered from the other side who has already logged in yes they are annoying but it isnt a exploit atm so just counter it by doing it yourself if that was adapting is for eve, either bring blobs with you , make a trap , just stop moaning about it you might be causing good things to those who use this mechanic but what about the people who get disconnected, some of these awnsers seem very one sided The EvE LifeÖ Blog bringing you the blogs that really matter working in conjunction with EVE Network NewsÖ
Alty MacAlterson Alt Corporation	Posted - 2008.11.24 01:00:00 - [60] Military experts are calling this a troll.

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