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Vyl Vit
Cambio Enterprises
9
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Posted - 2011.09.12 10:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
...don't say anything at all. This forum is already groaning under the weight of rampant and acerbic criticism. To read along one might get the idea this game sucks so badly it's amazing all the critics have played it at all, let alone as long as they have. Yet, we have, and there must be some reason why. Mea culpa. I've been in there tossing my BS-filled wit around with everyone else, but now I'd like to try to retrieve the baby before it goes out the window with the bathwater.
This is the best game, hands down, the best and you can deny it all you want you know it's true. CCP has designed something here, the artists, computer whizzes down to the stock clerk, that will stand in digital history regardless of how much the high and mighty "I can do better than this" screamers claim it's full of junk. The plain fact is, it isn't. It's a game with good integrity, unsurpassed graphics, thought provoking content, and artwork that is head and shoulders above the vast majority of other digital offerings.
After all the uproar on this forum about Incarna I began feeling like I was logging onto this horrendous waste of my hard earned dollar. I was looking for rapscallion ripoffs over both my shoulders and not really looking at what I was doing at all. So, I took another look with a fresh set of eyes. And, it's still there; the EVE that's grabbed my imagination since '07. It's beautiful. It's responsive. It's challenging. It's demanding, and rewarding, and as someone said just yesterday, "It's the game I hate to love."
Regardless of all the spiteful, hateful and downright ill-considered verbiage that has passed the past few months, in the main CCP you've done a stellar job, and I have every confidence you'll continue to do the best you can with our baby EVE. Yes, most of us whether we'll admit it or not, have adopted your creation as our own. It's our child. May its future be bright and expansive. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
205
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Posted - 2011.09.12 10:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:This is the best game, hands down, the best and you can deny it all you want you know it's true. I agree.
/c
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Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
26
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Posted - 2011.09.12 11:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
yes, lets never critisize anything in the game that we dislike and hope that they get magically fixed
...grow up |
Vyl Vit
Cambio Enterprises
9
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Posted - 2011.09.12 11:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:yes, lets never critisize anything in the game that we dislike and hope that they get magically fixed
...grow up
Well, "Skipper." If you don't think there's enough criticism on this forum already...and you're saying I should grow up...sonny boy, you got a long way to go.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
138
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Posted - 2011.09.12 11:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:...don't say anything at all. Lolno.
Without criticism, there is no moving forward.
If you haven't got anything good to say, say it GÇö it needs to be said.
GÇöGÇöGÇö
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
26
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Posted - 2011.09.12 11:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:Skippermonkey wrote:yes, lets never critisize anything in the game that we dislike and hope that they get magically fixed
...grow up Well, "Skipper." If you don't think there's enough criticism on this forum already...and you're saying I should grow up...sonny boy, you got a long way to go.
somebody does something that you dont like, you let them know.
somebody messes up something you liked and you were paying for, you bloody well make a loud noise about it
yes, i love EVE, but im not going to sit back and allow CCP to make changes that ruin it go unchallenged |
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
100
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Posted - 2011.09.12 11:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
You know, I experimented earlier.
I opened up a new account just for the hell of it. Spent an hour or so creating a character and then jumped in as if I was just starting the game. The feeling wasn't entirely there, but I just about recaptured what it was like for me the first time I ever logged in. (even considering the recent changes)
This is why I keep telling people that the game is still here. And yet, the whining continues. Although, it does seem to be tapering off a bit.
Fly Safe, Die Hard |
J Kunjeh
58
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Posted - 2011.09.12 11:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'm not sure the OP was suggesting we should never CONSTRUCTIVELY complain on the forums. I think what he's saying is that there's far too much wasteful WHINING going on here that isn't helpful in any way. I agree.
"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)"
(The Gospel of Philip, 1-5)-á |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
62
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Posted - 2011.09.12 11:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
You do realize a lot of the "whining" is coming from those who feel the same way you do? However most of us aren't just going to sit idle and see the game we love be neglected and wither away, The thing people don't seem to understand is that while the vocal minority might sound like people who don't give a **** and just whine, its actually the opposite we care enough to voice our opinions in hopes CCP "gets the hint". Sadly CCP seems determined to "stay the course" so the rage continues.. |
Cyzlaki
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
101
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Posted - 2011.09.12 11:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
I wouldn't go as far to say it's the best game ever, but it's certainly one of the only games I'm still playing after several years. |
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Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi
7
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Posted - 2011.09.12 11:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
If we dont critisize or complain about issues then the game wouldn't have evolved in the way it has. Eve would be a Dev's paradise and we would have lost everything that makes the game fun.
If CCP didn't want us point out flaws, problems etc then why set up the CSM, why have devs that actively talk to you in the forums?
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction." - Albert Einstein
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Gibbeous Moon
Perkone
0
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Posted - 2011.09.12 11:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
I we don't point out errors in the game, strategic mangement decisions then how is CCP going to know the weight of the issue or that there is an issue at all.
It may be the best game out there. But, I can tell you that if these problems aren't addressed then it won't be for long.
it is because that this is the best game that we're so vocal. If we weren't vocal then we wouldn't care. |
Thorn Galen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2011.09.12 11:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
"This is the best game, hands down, the best and you can deny it all you want you know it's true. CCP has designed something here, the artists, computer whizzes down to the stock clerk, that will stand in digital history regardless of how much the high and mighty "I can do better than this" screamers claim it's full of junk. The plain fact is, it isn't. It's a game with good integrity, unsurpassed graphics, thought provoking content, and artwork that is head and shoulders above the vast majority of other digital offerings."
Amen to that. even with its bugs, nothing else like it around. Way too much politics by some. If one tires of a game - leave gracefully, no need to try make it miserable for other players.
Well said, Vyl Vit. +10
(This space for rent) |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.09.12 11:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Quote:Without criticism, there is no moving forward.
There is a heap of difference between criticism and the emorage bullshit that goes on on these forums.
U NOT GONNA DO WUT I SAY THEN I QUIT MY 10 ACCOUNTS (fine print: when their subscription expires in 2 years. in the mean time i reserve the right to ***** and whine on how ccp aint doin wut i say)
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CCP Fallout
C C P
C C P Alliance
47
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Posted - 2011.09.12 11:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
While I understand your sentiment, I don't necessarily agree with your method. A thread like this one will usually, if not always, come away with a lot of trolling :D
One of the best things any user can do, if they have issue or concerns with a particular thread, is to use the report button and provide a detailed reason as to why the thread should be reviewed and/or moderated. This will help us on the Community team spot problematic threads much more quickly. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
138
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Posted - 2011.09.12 11:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
J Kunjeh wrote:I think what he's saying is that there's far too much wasteful WHINING going on here that isn't helpful in any way. Well, if the whiner-whiners stopped whining quite so much, we'd see a whole lot less of thatGǪ
GÇöGÇöGÇö
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Gibbeous Moon
Perkone
0
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Posted - 2011.09.12 11:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Quote:Without criticism, there is no moving forward. There is a heap of difference between criticism and the emorage bullshit that goes on on these forums. U NOT GONNA DO WUT I SAY THEN I QUIT MY 10 ACCOUNTS (fine print: when their subscription expires in 2 years. in the mean time i reserve the right to ***** and whine on how ccp aint doin wut i say)
Yes, good point Mind you in my RL forums in a non-Eve universe, far, faw away, the first accounts to get banned are those who write like four year olds with Caps Lock failure issues.
In these cases I think that CCP could do the community a huge benefit as well as increasing the intellectual average age of the New Eden denizen by helping them with their intent to quit by hastening thei exit.
edit. Due to appalling espresso deprivation induced spelling errors |
Barricade Dark
23
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Posted - 2011.09.12 11:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
GÇ£The people to fear are not those who disagree with you, but those who disagree with you and are too cowardly to let you knowGÇ¥
-Napoleon Bonaparte
CCP needs disagreements far more than it needs sheep who follow them blindly. Our disagreements and our vocal confrontation is what drives this endevour like any other to positive change. If we simply accepted everything CCP offered without oppossition Eve Online would be nothing more than a credit card donation handling service.
As a hobbyiest I love this game, really for me its not so much a game as it is my favorite pass time. By no means does it make my voice the voice of expertise, but sure as **** isn't nothing. If CCP didn't want our opinions they wouldn't have a public forum where the data is captured (see games workshop).
I agree with the OP that their is lack of constructive criticism of the game on the forums, but than again you can't deny the passion of the community. As such CCP should simply say thank you for every insult and troll as its a representation of the communities affection for the game. If the forums where silent and we didn't have our trolls.... well that would be the day Eve died.
soo... bye bye miss American Pie, drove my chevy to the levy but the levy was dry... so on and so forth. |
Di Mulle
4
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Posted - 2011.09.12 12:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:...don't say anything at all.
If you feel so bad about critics in forums - perhaps leave forums, leave the game, do it silently ?
I don't like my own tone in a previous sentence, but your categorical wish to dictate others what they should think and do kind of justifies it.
Actually, both approaches are equally bad.
Don't tell me what to do and I will not tell you where to get lost.
CCP is unable to implement simpliest things. Like settting to hide signatures. So they sweep it under a rug . Children do that in their pre-shool years, CCP does it being adults. Probably because it is fearless enough. |
RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
100
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Posted - 2011.09.12 12:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
only posting to keep posting count up ....
http://eveboard.com/ub/419190933-134.png
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Xavier Quo
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2011.09.12 12:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
There is no other vaguely modern game where you can fly around part of a galaxy, before it looked like that was because eve was unbeatable as it was always one step ahead.
Now those steps ahead haven't been taken for a while & it looks like they are taking its uniqueness for granted, relying on it more and more. Huge mistake.
Plus it's even more irritating as it's likely that most of CCP probably feels similar to us, yet the 3-5 people at the top are determined to go through with their own blinkered vision at the total and utter expense of their admirable legacy. That the cracks have started to show now maybe too late or not, maybe no-one at the top of CCP is prepared to accept that some decisions they've made in the past were mistakes, never mind big ones, who knows. Winter is coming.
Even as a general optimist, it is VERY hard to be optimistic right now. Maybe dust will be amazing with some kind of genius mechanic like paying dust players in ISK to enable them to buy better equipment etc (we have lots of isk spare, best people are not necessarily the most well off, capsuleers can cherry pick the best & fund them, keeps f2p dust model going <- I like)
But even just a turret missing a ship or a frigate strafing a planet outpost would have put a stupid childish grin on my face, instead we get a catwalk animation. Even the music was awfully made.  |
Theodemir
Do No Action
1
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Posted - 2011.09.12 12:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
The only criticism needed for EvE is that it lacks any form of competitor. If EvE had that, the higher echelons of CCP management may for once get off sitting on their thumbs and sweep up the bugs plaguing EvE that some say have been around for years. I've only been playing for one and a half years so relatively new to them. I feel for those that have been playing for a lot longer.
Also whine is good. Especially with cheese and when one wants a Khanid Abaddon varient. WHINE!!!! |
VaMei
Meafi Corp
8
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Posted - 2011.09.12 12:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:...and as someone said just yesterday, "It's the game I hate to love."
It's definitely a love/hate relationship. No doubt there.
This is a sandbox game, the Devs provide us with the toys, and we make what we will with them. The problem is that no two players want to make exactly the same thing in the sandbox, so getting a consensus on what should be changed, fixed, or added is like herding cats. Some players want more theme park activities. Some players want avatars. Some players want more world shaping activities. Some players want bigger battles and some want smaller ones. Some want Eve to become a broader game, others want CCP to refine what made Eve great. For most players, Eve would be so much better if CCP would just do [this].
In the end, when anyone sees that CCP is spending development funding on something that doesn't improve their gameplay, they feel they have something to comment on, or outright ***** about (myself included). When enough players have enough things they want to ***** about, you have **** storms on the forums just like we've been seeing.
It's not because we hate the game. If we hated the game, we'd simply walk away. It's because we love the game, but for each of us it could be so much better if only CCP would change/fix/implement [this] instead of working on [that]. |
Written Word
Written Word's Tax Haven
3
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Posted - 2011.09.12 12:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
I'm pretty sure EVE General exists for trolls, rants, rage and whines |
Vyl Vit
Cambio Enterprises
14
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Posted - 2011.09.12 12:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
I was merely repeating something my mom (and a lot of your moms) told me so I'd know why she boxed my ears...now and again. The point isn't "don't criticize." That was said nowhere in the post. But, a bit of perspective and proportion is in order, as always. I had something nice to say. It isn't a stab in the back. There is already plenty of text laying out what legitimate criticism there is.
However, I do recall reading in another "warrior" post, that an objective of this minority of wannabee activists is to step on everyone's post to redirect them to the avenue of discontent...should the post say something nice. Well. There you go. The names are listed here. Thanks for responding. But, of course, by now, we all know who you are. |
Tuggboat
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.09.12 12:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
What gets me is how adamant people are that their criticism is need, valued, pertinent or useful. Criticism just hurts people, it does not change them. Look around at your own lives, how many people that you have criticized have evolved into people you now think are perfect? How many of them keep hanging around at all? The real source of the problem is the person criticizing. Old saying goes when you got one finger pointing at someone else, look at your hand and you'll see three pointing back at you.
Anything you don't like can be an obstacle to overcome. The answer isn't to make the game different, its to play it different. As long as you look to other people to fix your problems, they have power to run your life. Used to be another saying around here. Adapt or die. What I hear are a bunch of poor losers looking to blame some one else. Try Try again, set some goals, make some plans, execute and measure your results.
What are all you whiners trying to accomplish that you can't accomplish? What part of yourself can you change to accomplish that? Use the game to find your own weaknesses and overcome them. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
169
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Posted - 2011.09.12 13:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:...don't say anything at all. This forum is already groaning under the weight of rampant and acerbic criticism. To read along one might get the idea this game sucks so badly it's amazing all the critics have played it at all, let alone as long as they have. Yet, we have, and there must be some reason why. Mea culpa. I've been in there tossing my BS-filled wit around with everyone else, but now I'd like to try to retrieve the baby before it goes out the window with the bathwater.
The situation has gotten pretty grim with Eve Online is why the mood is like this. When people start seeing abandonment and neglect of the core game damaging the communities of players they have built and enjoyed here then of course they get verbal and angry. In New Eden what you have is no more than what you fight for and that goes double for the game we enjoy that now needs rescuing from evil suits and corrupt money-men trying to nickle and dime this universe to oblivion while catering to the next butterfly infatuation with MT profiteering.
Quote:This is the best game, hands down, the best and you can deny it all you want you know it's true. CCP has designed something here, the artists, computer whizzes down to the stock clerk, that will stand in digital history regardless of how much the high and mighty "I can do better than this" screamers claim it's full of junk. The plain fact is, it isn't. It's a game with good integrity, unsurpassed graphics, thought provoking content, and artwork that is head and shoulders above the vast majority of other digital offerings.
If the game wasn't worth it there'd be no outcry of passion from those interested in saving it. You can bet the Age of Conan / Warhammer Online devs WISHED they had a community that cared as much about those products as the Eve community care about this one.
Quote:After all the uproar on this forum about Incarna I began feeling like I was logging onto this horrendous waste of my hard earned dollar. I was looking for rapscallion ripoffs over both my shoulders and not really looking at what I was doing at all. So, I took another look with a fresh set of eyes. And, it's still there; the EVE that's grabbed my imagination since '07. It's beautiful. It's responsive. It's challenging. It's demanding, and rewarding, and as someone said just yesterday, "It's the game I hate to love." Regardless of all the spiteful, hateful and downright ill-considered verbiage that has passed the past few months, in the main CCP you've done a stellar job, and I have every confidence you'll continue to do the best you can with our baby EVE. Yes, most of us whether we'll admit it or not, have adopted your creation as our own. It's our child. May its future be bright and expansive.
Yep Eve is our child. So its right to get angry when some gold-monocle-sporting human-traffic-profiteer tries to sell our child to an eastern european vice ring for 3600 aurum notes.
CCP "did" a stellar job in producing this game and delivering the epic early expansions. But for the last few years its been poor and they have made some spectacularly bad decisions about how to spend the money they raised from our continuing support through subscriptions. CCP have been a holdout in the industry by inviting a partnership with the player community to help guide this game universe and prevent them making horrible mistakes. All this outcry and passion is about preventing those mistakes and getting the universe of Eve Online back on track to greatness.
I wouldn't be so passionate myself if I didn't think that Eve Online could be saved. I would like to think that the many many comrades and fellow players I've known who have quit this game in despair at the neglect could still be won back if CCP commit to a sequence of full expansions and return their focus to this game front and centre.
I want that community to live again. I want CCP to end the neglect and start developing Eve again. I'd like them to acknowledge that diverting so much resource to Dust/Incarna/WOD was a mistake and to correct that - but even if pride doesn't allow that recourse then just making the correction and starting to plan future Exodus scale expansions again would be enough to restore my faith in the game developers and start feeling good about the game once again.
So to the op. While I can understand your sentiments please understand mine. I care about this game and community and if I didn't I'd have walked away long ago. But if you care about a friend of yours truly you don't let them sit in a basement smoking rock for 3 years and letting their health slip away till they are shadow of their former self as a living dead remnant. You do something while its still soon enough to make a difference.
Eve forums right now are fully of people trying to do something to make that difference.
And I for one applaud them.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. |
Ifly Uwalk
Concentrated Evil
1
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Posted - 2011.09.12 13:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
A few days ago a bought a new car. The very next day one of the wheels fell off.
Now, I could have immediately called Volkswagen to complain and fix it, but I didn't because, well, it's a Bugatti Veyron!
I mean, sure, it's a bumpy ride but - you know...
Uh...
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Cipher Jones
37
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Posted - 2011.09.12 13:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
You can't even be serious? They put the ignore feature on the new forums...
If someone is constantly bitching ignore them.
Its not like there's nothing wrong with the game. Many of the points made are valid.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Trolls Troll
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2011.09.12 13:29:00 -
[30] - Quote
I love when people make whine threads about people whining. Warms me cockles
Op, for every person that you think is whining there are 2 that think you are too.
EVERYONE ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN SAY, THAT'S WHY SEESEEPEE GAVE YOU IGNORE BUTTON.
fake edit: caps |
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