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Solo and Small Gang PVP: What it was, and What it has become

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Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.23 17:50:00 - [1] So I saw this in another thread, and decided to pull it out for the trolls to all fight over. Originally by: needrandomnamegenerator Originally by: VillagePeople sensor booster + dual web + 2 pt scram enemy down whether he's got afterburner, MWD or cloak, besides 3 BS is hardly a gatecamp you need a heavy tackler in there like a HAC or a specially kitted out BC to just hold him there while the BS get into range, web and lock. So basically you agree that CCP lied when they said they meant to keep small gang and SOLO pvp alive after this farce of a patch? Sure does sound like everybody in this thread is in agreement: To fight now, you need- 1)One regular point, to keep them from warping off 2) One scram to shut down MWD's and stop them from re-approaching the gate 3) 3-5 Webs to actually stop the ship 4) 1+ Target Painters, depending on the number of enemies you face 5) DPS to pop a ship in under 15-25 seconds (assuming all your webs, scrams, and points got on in time) before it returns to the gate 6) Tank, to avoid instapopping by gate guns, or god forbid your prey. YES, they did it, that totally sounds doable by a single ship.. Now, this is pretty interesting, because pre nerf, you needed specially fitted ships to catch the nanno boats,, now, you need specially fitted ships to catch ANYTHING. You MUST have certain fittings now to have a hope of actually scoring a kill. In the Dev blogs, and everything else leading up to QR's deployment, it was stated again and again that small gang, and SOLO COMBAT was to be kept viable, that it wouldn't be blob or nothing, and yet, here we are, seeing that solo PVP really isn't that viable anymore. Note I didn't say impossible, but its pretty damn difficulty. I'm also not talking about multi boxing clients, so you can have your lowsec mission prober guy, and your combat ship too, I'm speaking of true, 100% lone solo combat, where its just you and your ship, in low sec, 0.0, or what have you, trying to score kills. So my basic question I guess is, what happened to the claims of viable lowsec and 0.0 solo combat, and whats going on where small gangs of battleship pirates in low sec can't stop people from getting back to gates? What happened to small gang and solo pvp in the process of the change to a non nanno EVE?
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.23 17:52:00 - [2] Nanos killed solo pvp unless you were in a nanoship yourself too. The requirements in that list are ridiculous, and pvp is more than camping gates and ganking every industrial that comes through. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Quixis	Posted - 2008.11.23 17:54:00 - [3] The funny thing is, that QR made nearly every ship nano, that's why it's killed solo pvp.
Skira Ranos	Posted - 2008.11.23 17:55:00 - [4] Edited by: Skira Ranos on 23/11/2008 17:55:11 Edited by: Skira Ranos on 23/11/2008 17:54:50 Originally by: Furb Killer Nanos killed solo pvp unless you were in a nanoship yourself too. The requirements in that list are ridiculous, and pvp is more than camping gates and ganking every industrial that comes through. What he said, with emphasis added.
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.23 17:55:00 - [5] Edited by: Sebea on 23/11/2008 17:56:28 Originally by: Furb Killer Nanos killed solo pvp unless you were in a nanoship yourself too. The requirements in that list are ridiculous, and pvp is more than camping gates and ganking every industrial that comes through. I understand that what your saying, but that list is currently fairly accurate. Right now, as a solo roamer, in lowsec, roaming in say, a battleship, most of your targets are going to be found on gates. Your a liar if you say you'll catch them in belts. So, on a gate, a solo battleship has virtually NO chance of scoring a kill anymore, before the target drops aggro and jumps back through. Edit: also, nobody said anything about killing haulers, if you looked up my sec status, you'd notice its a bit high, not indicative of a hauler killer
Skira Ranos	Posted - 2008.11.23 17:56:00 - [6] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Furb Killer Nanos killed solo pvp unless you were in a nanoship yourself too. The requirements in that list are ridiculous, and pvp is more than camping gates and ganking every industrial that comes through. I understand that what your saying, but that list is currently fairly accurate. Right now, as a solo roamer, in lowsec, roaming in say, A BATTLESHIP most of your targets are going to be found on gates. Your a liar if you say you'll catch them in belts. So, on a gate, a SOLO BATTLESHIP has virtually NO chance of scoring a kill anymore, before the target drops aggro and jumps back through. Bolded and capitalized the OP's mistake.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.11.23 17:56:00 - [7] Solo pvp != gatecamp pvp. Solo pvp is traditionaly belt or station oriented and is still just as viable today as it ever was. You only hear about solo pvp as nerfed when a particular ship that was very good at soloing all ship classes gets the eventual and needed re-balance like the Curse. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.23 17:58:00 - [8] There are still enough pirates who hunt in belts, and in belts people cant dock or jump through a gate. Little known facts: one warp scrambler + one webber is more effective against mwd'ing ships as one web was before QR. Sure it is one slot extra, but not really that big a deal. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.23 17:58:00 - [9] Originally by: Zeba Solo pvp != gatecamp pvp. Solo pvp is traditionaly belt or station oriented First, lowsec combat doesn't happen in belts anymore, what year do you live in? Second, what station combat do you get to have that actually results in kills with out one of the participants docking up?
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.23 17:59:00 - [10] Originally by: Skira Ranos Bolded and capitalized the OP's mistake. So your saying I'm right, and that a solo player has no chance in EVE anymore?
Skira Ranos	Posted - 2008.11.23 17:59:00 - [11] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Zeba Solo pvp != gatecamp pvp. Solo pvp is traditionaly belt or station oriented First, lowsec combat doesn't happen in belts anymore, what year do you live in? Second, what station combat do you get to have that actually results in kills with out one of the participants docking up? I don't know where they live, but I live in Innia and I've been fighting in belts since 2005 (on various characters) till this day. ____ Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:01:00 - [12] Originally by: Furb Killer There are still enough pirates who hunt in belts, and in belts people cant dock or jump through a gate. Little known facts: one warp scrambler + one webber is more effective against mwd'ing ships as one web was before QR. Sure it is one slot extra, but not really that big a deal. Yea, i know, its on the list The problem is getting in range to activate a scram before you target warps off. I like to hunt pirates, its something fun to do, that doesn't hurt your sec status that much. Its just gotten to a point that I see them, and if they don't feel like fighting, they warp off, or deagro and jump, or dock up, and where as before, I had a good chance of killing another battleship in low sec, now, its just a matter of when he decides he doesn't want to die.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:01:00 - [13] Edited by: Furb Killer on 23/11/2008 18:02:07 While i havent pvp'ed since QR, because sadly i have wasted so much isk on carebear stuff that i needed to get back isk, i have done it enough before QR. Basicly all my pvp happens in belts, and i got plenty of kills/being killed there. Also check tusker corp for example, i dont like them that much, but they arent gatecamping whirates, they only do belt pvp and they find enough pvp. scram range is barely shorter than web range. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
ArmyOfMe 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:01:00 - [14] Originally by: Skira Ranos Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Zeba Solo pvp != gatecamp pvp. Solo pvp is traditionaly belt or station oriented First, lowsec combat doesn't happen in belts anymore, what year do you live in? Second, what station combat do you get to have that actually results in kills with out one of the participants docking up? I don't know where they live, but I live in Innia and I've been fighting in belts since 2005 (on various characters) till this day. npc's dont count Originally by: deadmaus Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:02:00 - [15] Originally by: Skira Ranos Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Zeba Solo pvp != gatecamp pvp. Solo pvp is traditionaly belt or station oriented First, lowsec combat doesn't happen in belts anymore, what year do you live in? Second, what station combat do you get to have that actually results in kills with out one of the participants docking up? I don't know where they live, but I live in Innia and I've been fighting in belts since 2005 (on various characters) till this day. Ok, your obviously waiting for it, so I'm calling you a liar. Your NOT getting any kills of note in belts in low sec. You may be catching the random newbie who's just finding out that low sec ratting is a joke, but you aren't catching any pirates, or players in battleships in belts in lowsec.
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:05:00 - [16] Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 23/11/2008 18:02:07 While i havent pvp'ed since QR Ok, so you have no idea what I'm talking about then
Karille Gallente Lordless	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:07:00 - [17] i just want to pop in and say i had a great unscheduled 1v1 just now in my ishkur vs a vagabond. it was a delightfully close fight and in the end the vagabond ran away. i let him because i was nearly dead myself. solo play is not dead.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:07:00 - [18] Edited by: Furb Killer on 23/11/2008 18:08:39 Since you are now calling people liars, i am going to link to kills i got in low sec belts. Too bad after that i lost 2 ships on a station, which showed me i shouldnt be stupid and just stick to belts. Too bad he had friends, but he went down http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=Furb+Killer&id=5144050&page=1&filter=kills#mail Had one friend, he went down and his pod went down. After that me and his friend fired on each other for quite a while, untill a random vaga showed up and we decided both to GTFO since the vaga wanted to kill us both. http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=Furb+Killer&id=5137397&page=1&filter=kills#mail That should teach him not to attack poor ratters http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=Furb+Killer&id=5136564&page=1&filter=kills#mail Me kinda disrupting a party of 3 pirate ganking 1 pirate in a belt. Too bad one of the 4 escaped http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=Furb+Killer&id=5134558&page=1&filter=kills#mail http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=Furb+Killer&id=5134559&page=1&filter=kills#mail Destroyer pwnage http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=Furb+Killer&id=5132072&page=1&filter=kills#mail More destroyer pwnage http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=Furb+Killer&id=5126494&page=1&filter=kills#mail But i suppose i am a liar too and belt pvp doesnt exist. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Skira Ranos	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:08:00 - [19] Edited by: Skira Ranos on 23/11/2008 18:08:32 Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Skira Ranos Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Zeba Solo pvp != gatecamp pvp. Solo pvp is traditionaly belt or station oriented First, lowsec combat doesn't happen in belts anymore, what year do you live in? Second, what station combat do you get to have that actually results in kills with out one of the participants docking up? I don't know where they live, but I live in Innia and I've been fighting in belts since 2005 (on various characters) till this day. Ok, your obviously waiting for it, so I'm calling you a liar. Your NOT getting any kills of note in belts in low sec. You may be catching the random newbie who's just finding out that low sec ratting is a joke, but you aren't catching any pirates, or players in battleships in belts in lowsec. Yes I am, and I have been since 2005 (also its good to look in beacons and deadspace). This character has yet to net any battleship kills or ransoms, as its only 7 days old, but nonetheless. Now, see, your list of criteria are much more narrow than mine because you are a bounty hunter of sorts, which makes your list of potential targets much smaller. Yeah, as a bounty hunter/anti-pi type you're going to have a much harder time of things, always. And yes, in a way, QR nerfed your profession a bit, or rather it nerfed YOUR WAY of doing it. Two things of note: 1: ADAPTATION is the law of EVE. Don't complain, change. 2: Nerfing YOUR way of solo/small gang PVP != solo/gang PVP in EVE at large. In fact, i would say overall and especially in 0.0 and high sec wars, solo and small gang PVP has been greatly boosted in QR, as you can actually escape some of the uberblobs and such now if you're smart and quick. ____ Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Karille i just want to pop in and say i had a great unscheduled 1v1 just now in my ishkur vs a vagabond. it was a delightfully close fight and in the end the vagabond ran away. i let him because i was nearly dead myself. solo play is not dead. I call shenanigans. You LET him get away?
Crazy Tasty Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:10:00 - [21] Originally by: Furb Killer Nanos killed solo pvp unless you were in a nanoship yourself too. The requirements in that list are ridiculous, and pvp is more than camping gates and ganking every industrial that comes through. The funny thing is, since the web nerf and the fact that 2 point scrams are still hardly used, nano's are still viable. However, its stupid to think that the requirements quoted above are just for gate camps. It doesn't matter where you are, 0.0, low sec, or high, gates are where a majority of your combat will take place just because that is a choke point. That, along with the nerfs to tackling, changes to agility, and nerfs to larger ships mean you need specialized tacklers unless you are only fighting noobs. That fact of the matter is this: to come close, note I said close as you can't match, to your pre-nerf tackling ability you need a dedicated Minnie recon, a dedicated Gal recon, then you can start thinking about how to get DPS on it to actually kill it and hope its initial MWD cycle did get it to the gate. So solo and small gang PvP has been nerfed without question, without even mentioning the other changes. It is still viable however, just nerfed, so maybe thats what CCP was getting at. ------ // This is by design. When a ship jumps through a gate, it clears all aggression. // - BH ******** Pew on gate, if it gets hot, jump through and Ctrl-Q. Game mechanic endorsed by CCP.
Karille Gallente Lordless	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Karille i just want to pop in and say i had a great unscheduled 1v1 just now in my ishkur vs a vagabond. it was a delightfully close fight and in the end the vagabond ran away. i let him because i was nearly dead myself. solo play is not dead. I call shenanigans. You LET him get away? for sufficiently small values of let. i pulled my drones back and then warped out.
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:12:00 - [23] Why blame CCP for the state of solo/small gang PvP when 99% of the playerbase won't engage without overwhelming advantage?
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:14:00 - [24] Originally by: Furb Killer Lots of kills Ok, so it happens, but in lowsec, it is the rarest form of combat. Also, nice destroyer work, i would love to have seen the tears from that.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:15:00 - [25] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Skira Ranos Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Zeba Solo pvp != gatecamp pvp. Solo pvp is traditionaly belt or station oriented First, lowsec combat doesn't happen in belts anymore, what year do you live in? Second, what station combat do you get to have that actually results in kills with out one of the participants docking up? I don't know where they live, but I live in Innia and I've been fighting in belts since 2005 (on various characters) till this day. Ok, your obviously waiting for it, so I'm calling you a liar. Your NOT getting any kills of note in belts in low sec. You may be catching the random newbie who's just finding out that low sec ratting is a joke, but you aren't catching any pirates, or players in battleships in belts in lowsec. First. Target selection in low sec has nothing to do with your ability to solo a player and everything to do with how crappy the rewards are for a carebear to risk his ship and implants to a solo pvper. Second. I hear a Moros is hella fun for solo station camping in low sec. Third. Solo pvp will be getting a huge boost in 0.0 whenever CCP gets around to changing local to not show you unless you type. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:17:00 - [26] Originally by: Zeba Third. Solo pvp will be getting a huge boost in 0.0 whenever CCP gets around to changing local to not show you unless you type. TBH, a long time ago I stoped believing the "Soon" remarks from CCP
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:20:00 - [27] Originally by: Malcanis Why blame CCP for the state of solo/small gang PvP when 99% of the playerbase won't engage without overwhelming advantage? Quoted For Most Excellent Truth The players are the root cause of pretty much every problem in this game. And CCP, being the masochists they are, try to fix it without just giving up and tying people down into arena-based warfare. - DesuSigs
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:21:00 - [28] Edited by: Sebea on 23/11/2008 18:25:16 Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Malcanis Why blame CCP for the state of solo/small gang PvP when 99% of the playerbase won't engage without overwhelming advantage? Quoted For Most Excellent Truth The players are the root cause of pretty much every problem in this game. And CCP, being the masochists they are, try to fix it without just giving up and tying people down into arena-based warfare. Malcanis has his moments, though im a bit sad to see him back in a newie corp Edit: While were at it, one poster has sighted that I'm wrong for doing it in a battleship. I'm wondering, why was it needed to kill solo bounty hunting battleship players when the nano's were murdered.
Gonada Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:25:00 - [29] you know, theres nothing worse than whiners with no skill. learn to play Please, jump into traffic
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:27:00 - [30] Originally by: Gonada you know, theres nothing worse than whiners with no skill. learn to play MY FIRST TRUE TROLL! coming from a guy in the alliance your in, lets just say my feelings will survive. WE ARE ATLAS....god that never gets old.

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