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Reverse Engineering char_*.dat

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Stevil Knevil	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:42:00 - [1] Has anyone had a go at trying to reverse engineer the char_*.dat files? It would be nice to have a user friendly out of game tool for setting up (and copying) overview settings.
Ix Forres Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.11.23 19:43:00 - [2] Originally by: Stevil Knevil Has anyone had a go at trying to reverse engineer the char_.dat files? It would be nice to have a user friendly out of game tool for setting up (and copying) overview settings. AFAIK would violate EULA. -- Ix Forres* EVE Application Developer ISKsense \| RLS-EVE \| EVE Metrics (NEW)
Stevil Knevil	Posted - 2008.11.23 19:51:00 - [3] Originally by: Ix Forres AFAIK would violate EULA. You're probably right, but if it was achievable technically it may convince CCP to give us an API for it.
postal dude Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.23 20:16:00 - [4] Originally by: Stevil Knevil Has anyone had a go at trying to reverse engineer the char_*.dat files? It would be nice to have a user friendly out of game tool for setting up (and copying) overview settings. Yes, I know some people have the knowledge to unpickle the files - maybe you get someone to answer. Its the same as with cache-files. ---
Amida Ta German Mining and Manufacture Corp.	Posted - 2008.11.23 23:40:00 - [5] Originally by: Stevil Knevil Originally by: Ix Forres AFAIK would violate EULA. You're probably right, but if it was achievable technically it may convince CCP to give us an API for it. It is archievable technically (same structure as the cache-files). However CCP already said that writing to any of these files should not be done (ist not allowed), and read only is pretty much no use for you for this scenario.
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2008.11.24 00:12:00 - [6] So, changing game settings would violate EULA? Does that means we shouldn't touch key binding settings, window locations? How far we gonna go that way, may I ask? Think what you're writing next time, ok? To overview settings, they are in user_XXX.dat I believe. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Mutabae	Posted - 2008.11.24 03:23:00 - [7] Originally by: Tonto Auri So, changing game settings would violate EULA? Does that means we shouldn't touch key binding settings, window locations? How far we gonna go that way, may I ask? Think what you're writing next time, ok? To overview settings, they are in user_XXX.dat I believe. Read the EULA before you flame people. Data-mining game files is against the EULA. That you compare using a CCP supplied interface to change in-game settings with using non CCP programs to open locked files is disingenuous at best. By all means, reverse engineer files and post your findings. I'll enjoy watching you get banned.
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2008.11.24 05:46:00 - [8] Edited by: Tonto Auri on 24/11/2008 05:51:47 Originally by: Mutabae Originally by: Tonto Auri So, changing game settings would violate EULA? Does that means we shouldn't touch key binding settings, window locations? How far we gonna go that way, may I ask? Think what you're writing next time, ok? To overview settings, they are in user_XXX.dat I believe. Read the EULA before you flame people. Data-mining game files is against the EULA. That you compare using a CCP supplied interface to change in-game settings with using non CCP programs to open locked files is disingenuous at best. By all means, reverse engineer files and post your findings. I'll enjoy watching you get banned. I do not "datamine" nor change anything that supplied by CCP. I only adjust settings that could be adjusted. If it is ever possible to gain any unintended advantage simply by changing client settings, that should.. must be bugreported and fixed. Find another point to start your attack from. This one you got is flawed. P.S. Enjoy... http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=499057&page=1#4 -- Thanks CCP for cu
GLotsapot Amarr UNAS Corp	Posted - 2008.11.24 08:11:00 - [9] Personally I don't see this violating the EULA as it wouldn't be doing anything that changing the settings in-game wouldn't do. Essentially, it's just like a config file. I was actually thinking about looking into doing something like this the other day, so thought I'd check the forums first.
Amida Ta German Mining and Manufacture Corp.	Posted - 2008.11.24 08:40:00 - [10] Originally by: GLotsapot Personally I don't see this violating the EULA as it wouldn't be doing anything that changing the settings in-game wouldn't do. Essentially, it's just like a config file. I was actually thinking about looking into doing something like this the other day, so thought I'd check the forums first. Unfortunatelly you are completely wrong: They are NOT config files. These files are serialized game objects. And modifying them MIGHT lead to everything from Client crashes over exploit possibilities up to server crashes. And while it obviously would be a bug if some changes there lead to a server crash it still is quite possible and has a huge potential annoyance-factor for CCP.

CCP Lingorm C C P	Posted - 2008.11.24 09:36:00 - [11] Edited by: CCP Lingorm on 24/11/2008 09:40:33 Amida is correct here. Reverse Engineering the format of the Cache files (this includes the setting .dat files) for the purpose of modifying them, is a breach of the EULA. Specifically sections 10 and 11. The Format of those files is specific to CCP and is considered to be propriatory technology and is protected by the EULA. CCP Lingorm CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Team Leader Originally by: Lord Fitz Eve is to WoW as Wow is to an 8 player game of Unreal Tournament.

Kilmatar Minmatar Aeria Gloris Inc Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.11.24 12:18:00 - [12] Originally by: CCP Lingorm Edited by: CCP Lingorm on 24/11/2008 09:40:33 Amida is correct here. Reverse Engineering the format of the Cache files (this includes the setting .dat files) for the purpose of modifying them, is a breach of the EULA. Specifically sections 10 and 11. The Format of those files is specific to CCP and is considered to be propriatory technology and is protected by the EULA. OK! How about an offline config creator "made by CCP"? For example you lost your overview setting with patch! You need to be out of station for a 10-15 minutes to reconfigure. Making this in hostile space is not a good idea! Also such a tool theoretically can extract/merge overview settings for cloning this setting to everyone in fleet before battle. ============= Matari Rullz!
postal dude Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.24 14:23:00 - [13] Edited by: postal dude on 24/11/2008 14:25:51 Originally by: CCP Lingorm Edited by: CCP Lingorm on 24/11/2008 09:40:33 Amida is correct here. Reverse Engineering the format of the Cache files (this includes the setting .dat files) for the purpose of modifying them, is a breach of the EULA. Specifically sections 10 and 11. The Format of those files is specific to CCP and is considered to be propriatory technology and is protected by the EULA. Sadly, that is. Setting a custom resolution for windowed-mode would be really nice. ---
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.11.24 15:44:00 - [14] Originally by: Kilmatar OK! How about an offline config creator "made by CCP"? For example you lost your overview setting with patch! You need to be out of station for a 10-15 minutes to reconfigure. Making this in hostile space is not a good idea! Also such a tool theoretically can extract/merge overview settings for cloning this setting to everyone in fleet before battle. It has been on the requested feature list for a while. CCP has said that they want to do this, but don't have a timeline for it yet.
Jack Gilligan Dragon's Rage KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.25 16:57:00 - [15] EULA violation or not, I backed all mine up (overview and UI settings) and figured out manually how to copy my overview settings to my other accounts. It's not that hard, and I have contemplated writing a DOS batch file to automate that in the future. Didn't actually ALTER any of them however, just copied the ones I wanted copied over the files of the other accounts so I don't see how that could violate anything, just moved some 1's and 0's around on my hard drive... Why CCP doesn't have a simple "back up UI and Overview settings" and "restore UI and overview settings" function is beyond me. It's extremely annoying to re-do all those settings for EACH account after EACH patch. My opinions are my own and do not necessarily represent those of my corp or alliance.
Chia Teng	Posted - 2008.11.26 08:41:00 - [16] Originally by: CCP Lingorm Reverse Engineering the format of the Cache files (this includes the setting .dat files) for the purpose of modifying them, is a breach of the EULA. Specifically sections 10 and 11. The Format of those files is specific to CCP and is considered to be propriatory technology and is protected by the EULA. Correct me if I am wrong, but reverse engineering them for the purpose of interoperability is considered fair use and allowed in the EU by law, whether the EULA allows it or not.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.26 10:35:00 - [17] Edited by: Andrue on 26/11/2008 10:35:46 Originally by: Chia Teng Originally by: CCP Lingorm Reverse Engineering the format of the Cache files (this includes the setting .dat files) for the purpose of modifying them, is a breach of the EULA. Specifically sections 10 and 11. The Format of those files is specific to CCP and is considered to be propriatory technology and is protected by the EULA. Correct me if I am wrong, but reverse engineering them for the purpose of interoperability is considered fair use and allowed in the EU by law, whether the EULA allows it or not. Correct. Unfortunately (for those who try it) all your quote does is state that CCP can't take you to court if you do it. CCP also have the legal right to deny anyone access to their service for whatever reason they want. If you violate their EULA you can expect an account ban independant and separate from the legality of your actions. This is why CCP can restrict and control what you post on these forums without violating your right to free speech. It's private 'property' and they have the legal right to control whether or not you have access to it and what you do with it while accessing it. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Stevil Knevil	Posted - 2008.11.26 11:44:00 - [18] Bah - it's a little annoying because CCP are really keen on customer generated content; I'm sure they'd love an out of game overview settings tool! However, at the same time I understand why they can't accept people reverse engineering their tech. 'All' it needs is to split the overview settings into a separate file and give free reign on it and everyone would be happy :-) Alas I think things like fixing lag may be higher up the list...
Entity X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence	Posted - 2008.11.26 18:35:00 - [19] Originally by: Stevil Knevil However, at the same time I understand why they can't accept people reverse engineering their tech. Actually you're free to reverse engineer it all you want. just not for the purpose of modifying files. (Both settings and cache have the same data format) _ Got Item? \| EVE API?
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2008.11.26 23:22:00 - [20] My local law allow me to fix program that not behave correctly. whatever the author, rights holder or distribytor think about it. I only can't resell my discovery. The fact that EVE does not read resolutions list correctly is a bug. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Ralf Smith	Posted - 2008.11.27 19:59:00 - [21] Originally by: Tonto Auri My local law allow me to fix program that not behave correctly. whatever the author, rights holder or distribytor think about it. I only can't resell my discovery. The fact that EVE does not read resolutions list correctly is a bug. It doesnt matter what your local laws are. When you agree to the EULA, you are signing over some of your rights/freedoms/whatever for the program
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.28 13:59:00 - [22] Edited by: Andrue on 28/11/2008 14:00:53 Originally by: Tonto Auri My local law allow me to fix program that not behave correctly. whatever the author, rights holder or distribytor think about it. I only can't resell my discovery. The fact that EVE does not read resolutions list correctly is a bug. You're still not understanding my point. You're talking there about whether or not you can do something without fear of being taken to court. That is not the point. Regardless of whether you are committing a criminal act or not CCP own the rights to this game and own the server. They choose who they will allow to log on and who they won't. They have made it quite clear in their EULA that they won't let you use their service if you do certain things. It doesn't matter whether those things are legal or not. They could say that no-one is allowed to play the game while wearing sandals. The fact that your local laws permit you to wear sandals is unimportant. If CCP find out that you're wearing sandals while playing the game they can kick you off and ban you. You're going to have real problems in your life if you can't understand the difference between 'the law' and a EULA. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
postal dude Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.28 14:58:00 - [23] Originally by: Andrue They could say that no-one is allowed to play the game while wearing sandals. The fact that your local laws permit you to wear sandals is unimportant. If CCP find out that you're wearing sandals while playing the game they can kick you off and ban you. You're going to have real problems in your life if you can't understand the difference between 'the law' and a EULA. Is it just me or is anybody else also thinking that a software company does not stand above my government? ---
21 Salvager Minmatar Moons of Pluto Space Exploration and Logistic Services	Posted - 2008.11.28 18:17:00 - [24] Originally by: postal dude Originally by: Andrue They could say that no-one is allowed to play the game while wearing sandals. The fact that your local laws permit you to wear sandals is unimportant. If CCP find out that you're wearing sandals while playing the game they can kick you off and ban you. You're going to have real problems in your life if you can't understand the difference between 'the law' and a EULA. Is it just me or is anybody else also thinking that a software company does not stand above my government? Hopefully just you. I don't want any government dictating that a private company HAS to allow someone onto their game. ----- I'm a collector! Want to trade? See my Collection List and contact me.

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