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Cade Morrigan
Caldari
The Terrible Secret
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Posted - 2008.11.24 15:54:00 -
[1]
I'm looking to move up to L4 missions and have been trying to decide between an 8x350mm II Rokh and a HML II Nighthawk. Training time for the two are pretty much the same considering the peripheral skills I'd need, the main difference being this:
-- I need about 12 days to get Large Rails IV and a couple other skills up to IV and V so I can properly fly the Rokh with t1 guns. However I'd need to tack on another 45 days or so to get tech 2 large rails, and to get my Drone skills up to handle the small stuff.
-- The situation with the Nighthawk is reversed. I need about 40 days to get into the ship at command IV, but only a week or so to polish off some peripheral skills.
So... that's 2 questions really:
1) which ship is going to solo L4 missions with less hassle?
2) if the Rokh is better, do you think it needs the t2 guns or will t1 do?
Thanks for relating your experiences with these ships!
-= Don't you DARE call her ugly! =-
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Xano Heroma
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.11.24 16:03:00 -
[2]
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Cade Morrigan
Caldari
The Terrible Secret
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Posted - 2008.11.24 16:26:00 -
[3]
Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify, when I asked if t2 guns were necessary I didn't mean as a prereq to getting a Rokh; i meant more like are they a really good thing for improving L4 mission performance, or is the difference b/t t1+antimatter and t2 minimal. Thanks!
-= Don't you DARE call her ugly! =-
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Revelation Space
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Posted - 2008.11.24 16:59:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Rashmika Clavain on 24/11/2008 16:59:07
Well with t2 there's an easy extra 8% damage mod increase available over t1 guns, so yes, always worth it for me.
Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator |
Xano Heroma
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.11.24 17:00:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Cade Morrigan
Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify, when I asked if t2 guns were necessary I didn't mean as a prereq to getting a Rokh; i meant more like are they a really good thing for improving L4 mission performance, or is the difference b/t t1+antimatter and t2 minimal. Thanks!
depends mostly on your future plans !... t2 large guns are a big training investment, soo it depends on how much you plan on using large hybrids !
at the moment theirs not a large hybrid gun ship that is focused on dps only range...... when you have been doing L4s for some time,, most peaplo will start focusing on kill time !
for kill time you will want the torpedos ships raven/navy raven/golem. (asuming you fly caldari and do mission for caldari faction) |
Contralto
Gallente
Federal Data Research Labs
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Posted - 2008.11.24 17:04:00 -
[6]
If you are in Hi sec and have the Isk, take a look at Dread guristas 350's and 425's they have longer optimal than T2, use substantially less Pg (but more Cpu) T2 will give 10% more Dps at specialization lvl V.
I think the Dreads are a good compromise while you max all your auxiliary gunnery support skills.
Total cost of 8 Dreads may be a big deciding factor! I fly a Kronos with just 4 so not such an issue.
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Dracthera
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Posted - 2008.11.24 17:16:00 -
[7]
Why the fascination in using a Rokh to run missions? Why not some sort of a Raven?
In any event, I'd say the NH will solo L4s with less hassle and faster than the Rokh.
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Akuma Tsukai
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.11.24 18:00:00 -
[8]
Rokh all the way, and use named/gallente rails till u get T2. They are worth training, unlike arty  NH is just so damn sloooooooooooow on lvl 4, it does them fine but s l o w
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Drones eat everything. Trust me. |
Orion GUardian
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.24 19:37:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Orion GUardian on 24/11/2008 19:38:11
Nighthawk is slow you say......*shrug* I find its fast enough. I think it does them even better if you use Fury HMs....Frigs are Dronefodder and BS die fast....plus using a TP you melt cruisers like ice in the sunshine without having to worry about your tank in 90% of the missions although TP is not necessary at all as its Heavys anway. Its the new relaxed missioning. I dont know but I prefer the Nighthawk but thats more a thing of taste.
Rokh: Never tested it, might be fun but *shrug*
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Cade Morrigan
Caldari
The Terrible Secret
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Posted - 2008.11.24 20:47:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Cade Morrigan on 24/11/2008 20:48:12
I'll never put much $$ into a mission ship, tech 2 stuff is as expensive as I'll go unless I'm building a gisti SB harpy or something since those are reasonable in price.
So, about half of you say the NH is slow, the other half say it is fine, kind of leaves me where i started :D
Regarding why I'd rather have a Rokh than a Raven... I just don't like the Raven, don't like torps, don't like cruise missiles, don't want to train that stuff beyond the low level I have them at. I don't pvp much but I like to keep my eye cast that direction, and I don't really see myself ever PvPing in a Raven or using Torps/Cruise.
-= Don't you DARE call her ugly! =-
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FT Diomedes
Gallente
Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.11.24 21:01:00 -
[11]
I think the NH is probably better. Anyone who thinks it is too slow for missions, probably isn't fitting it properly. My NH is almost as fast as my CNR on some missions - and is almost certainly faster than a Rokh setup.
The Rokh is an excellent fleet sniper ship, and T2 rails are a must for that, so I highly recommend training for it, if you want to do large scale 0.0 warfare. Training for it will also open up the Eagle, which is a good anti-support sniper.
You cannot go wrong either way - it just depends on what peripheral use you want.
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Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. |
Dracthera
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Posted - 2008.11.24 21:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cade Morrigan
So, about half of you say the NH is slow, the other half say it is fine, kind of leaves me where i started :D
It's a matter of skills. Mission runners have reported that the NH can run missions as fast as a comparably-equipped CNR, and not a whole lot slower than a Golem. I'd say the NH is your best choice for running missions if you want to get away from Ravenkind ships.
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Cade Morrigan
Caldari
The Terrible Secret
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Posted - 2008.11.24 21:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: FT Diomedes
I think the NH is probably better. Anyone who thinks it is too slow for missions, probably isn't fitting it properly. My NH is almost as fast as my CNR on some missions - and is almost certainly faster than a Rokh setup.
The Rokh is an excellent fleet sniper ship, and T2 rails are a must for that, so I highly recommend training for it, if you want to do large scale 0.0 warfare. Training for it will also open up the Eagle, which is a good anti-support sniper.
I have an Eagle and love it. I've used t2 blasters (blasphemy!) and long range t2 rail setups, it is fun either way. I also have a Cerb and love that ship too, i'm all skilled up with t2 Heavies for that bird... I'm interested in a Rook or Falcon at some point as well. I guess that sort of points me at the Nighthawk since my skills are already highly developed for HMLs.
I'll probably change my mind a half dozen times before I buy ;)
-= Don't you DARE call her ugly! =-
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Murkon Salesgirl
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.11.25 01:24:00 -
[14]
Rails?
Think about the Navy Mega, its great as a rail platform. You'd only need Rail IV and Gallente BS IV. Armor tank using sansha t1 hardeners if you dont have hull upgrades V.
Much more dps, especially w/ 4 Warden + 5 light drone combo. |
nether void
Caldari
Shrapnel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.25 18:05:00 -
[15]
Edited by: nether void on 25/11/2008 18:08:59
Edited by: nether void on 25/11/2008 18:07:36
Edited by: nether void on 25/11/2008 18:06:33
Edited by: nether void on 25/11/2008 18:05:54
Edited by: nether void on 25/11/2008 18:05:13
I fly a Rokh as my lv 4 mission ship. I've usually got 4 meta4 425s and 4 meta4 350s on it. If a mission is heavy on enemy BSs, I'll fit 6 425s and 2 350s. It gives me a lot of variability with range. I can engage the 425s at 100km with thorium. Take out the frigs on the way in. I can also do max dps with antimatter and all guns blazing at about 30 to 40km.
I too didn't want to fly a Raven, because first of all they're extremely ugly and second missiles are boring.
One thing to remember though is the Rokh needs to move around a lot. The point of it is to stay out of range of the other ships. Well it's a slow mother, for sure (top speed for me is 106m/s bleck), so sometimes you'll need an AB. The kicker is there seems to be web frigs in every friggin mission! Makes missions a PITA.
Anyway, I didn't know T2 guns got the extra DPS from the advanced hybrids skill. I'll have to train for that, because even though the Rokh is a pretty powerful platform, sometimes when I'm sitting there webbed all to hell and the enemy's transversal is cutting my DPS something fierce, I wish I had some cruise missiles.
Reminds me, some missions it's best to fit 4 guns and 4 cruise launchers. Good to have options.
Oh one last thing, if the mission asks for EM damage, you're effed. Hybrids only get 2 damage types, which I think is a load of crap. If you need a lot of EM, fit the 4 cruise launchers mentioned above.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente
Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.11.25 18:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: nether void
Oh one last thing, if the mission asks for EM damage, you're effed. Hybrids only get 2 damage types, which I think is a load of crap. If you need a lot of EM, fit the 4 cruise launchers mentioned above.
I haven't had many problems using hybrid weapons, but if you really need EM damage, you are better off with bonused missiles from a Raven.
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Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. |
Hellinthose
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Posted - 2008.11.25 19:23:00 -
[17]
Ive seen estimates for the DSP nighthawks for 550. ROKH migth be able to do double that but cannot hit frigs and cruisers... So you migth as well cut that in half.
Not to mention that the smaller ships in Level IV's and V's are frequently the most difficult to deal with and as such a ROKH is difficult as you would have to warp out and in.
T2 anything i think is worth it as it provides you much more ease when dealing with optinos of ammo, dmg, and ROF.
Overall, i have never piloted the ROKH because i believe in following one clear path than dividing them, but if you already have serious skillpoints in the Turrets i would go with it.
Sounds like a fun ship ;).
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Illectroculus Defined
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Posted - 2008.11.25 19:28:00 -
[18]
I've found Rokhs in missions can either be incredibly easy or horribly grindy, it pretty much comes down to whether the mission location lets you get some range between you and the targets. Once the rokh is swarmed it takes forever to take down small cruisers and frigates.
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Cade Morrigan
Caldari
The Terrible Secret
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Posted - 2008.11.25 20:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hellinthose
Ive seen estimates for the DSP nighthawks for 550. ROKH migth be able to do double that but cannot hit frigs and cruisers... So you migth as well cut that in half.
My excursions into EFT haven't shown me that the Rokh's dps is any better than the NH in a setup that can actually solo/tank. Maybe I'm doing it wrong though.
-= Don't you DARE call her ugly! =-
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nether void
Caldari
Shrapnel Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.25 21:37:00 -
[20]
Maelstrom looks kinda fun. Gunnery and shield skills. All you have to add are projectile turrets and Minmatar battleship.
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Boddin
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Posted - 2008.11.25 23:07:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Boddin on 25/11/2008 23:07:23
Originally by: Cade Morrigan
So... that's 2 questions really:
1) which ship is going to solo L4 missions with less hassle?
2) if the Rokh is better, do you think it needs the t2 guns or will t1 do?
1) Less hassle NH semi afk boat
2) T2 IMO I always have some short range T2 in case some like to come up close, 27km optimal if memory serves (skills at lvl 5)
Haven't flown NH but Drake had too little dps for my taste doing lvl 4's.
Rokh its ok not super but ok. Has problems with tracking so 350's is a must (compared to 425's the dps diffrence isn't much).
My Rokh fit.
High:
8x 350 T2
Mid:
SB, SB amp, 3x hardners, optinal (cap boost, cap recharger, AB, 2nd SB amp or Tracking comp with tracking script (my fav.))
Low:
3x Mag, DC, optional (Signal amp, 4th Mag, PDU/RCU if you want 425?)
Rigs:
3x ccc
After I've tried Gallente boats there is pretty much no return, gotta have that tracking. |
Karl Luckner
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Posted - 2008.11.26 02:37:00 -
[22]
The Rokh is a really fun ship to fly, versus kin weak rats.
Instant damage and around 112km targeting range is wonderful. It really lacks a bit cap in my opinion, and the 50m¦ dronebay plain sucks. Unflexible damagetype isn't that great either. And last but not least: it's a dead end in the caldari lineup. There is nothing you could upgrade to.
The Nighthawk is in my opinion the best ship for cruiser heavy missions. The faster locktime is nice, and even actively tanked it is nearly carefree. Downside is the lower targetting range, and a bit less damage versus battleships.
Truth is, both are outperformed by CNR and Golem in most missions. Only exception is this angel mission, where they swarm you with hundreds of small ships.
With a Rokh you can move in a favourable distance, and instapopp most targets as soon as you have locked them. 
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Cade Morrigan
Caldari
The Terrible Secret
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Posted - 2008.11.26 02:52:00 -
[23]
Originally by: nether void
Maelstrom looks kinda fun. Gunnery and shield skills. All you have to add are projectile turrets and Minmatar battleship.
Wow that is a beautiful model, and I already have Minmatar Frigates and Cruisers at IV... *schemes*
-= Don't you DARE call her ugly! =-
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