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China = screwed

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Verx Interis Amarr Modicus Dementis	Posted - 2008.12.03 04:52:00 - [31] China screwed? No more cheap T-shirts? On the more serious side.. If there's a revolt in China, could be interesting.. Someone should just fly a plan over China dropping phamphlets to let people know what their government is really doing. At the very least, it'll give them more to worry about and the Economy there will get worse. Then the CPC can die and we can have one less country in Asia with "People's" in its name. Seriously every country in Asia with an oppressive, controlling government has "People's" in it's name. People's Republic of China, Democratic People's Republic of Korea.. How to have an oppressive government: 1. Make a name with as many non-oppressive words as possible: The Free People's Democratic Republican Union of Liberated [wherever] 2. Propaganda 3. Tanks 4. ????? 5. PROFIT!!! -- Your bad loan management perfectly strikes the stock market, wrecking for -777.68 points.
Cikulisuy Amarr Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.03 05:03:00 - [32] good, the "people's" republic of china is such a joke. its repressionist regime should die, immediately. and i sincerely hope this does happen, however from what has happened in the past it will likely just be replaced with another regime of equal or greater evil, the real problem with china is that there is an absurd unemployed labor force, so that when random factory man gets maimed because of unsafe machinery, there are immediately thousands of starving men just like him to take his place. unionizing is illegal etc. so yes, i hate china, in its current incarnation it should just die horribly in a fire. nub> you cant mine so you kill.
Lithalnas Amarr Headcrabs	Posted - 2008.12.03 05:21:00 - [33] Having your economy be 100% dependent on the economy of another nation is not particularly bright. Tied in with the lesson that no one seems to learn, there are good years and there are bad years and after several good years there will be bad years. This economic downturn was not wholly unexpected, the problem becomes exactly how deep will it go. Best case scenario, a cool down of growth and some downsizing. Possibly a change in economic regulations in china, a reduction in the level of bureaucratic corruption. Worst case scenario, a nuclear country in civil war. Bad times. ------------- fixed for greater eve content
Dong Ninja	Posted - 2008.12.03 06:22:00 - [34] Just in case anyone forgets.
annoing Fallen Angel's	Posted - 2008.12.03 08:50:00 - [35] Originally by: Shanzem Someone one please think of the Asian girls! they need homes! please come to england.. i am begging TBH, about the only time i'm ever likely to agree with you about anything Where I live has the largest chinese community outside of London. The local university specializes in foreign students so every summer we have an influx of gorgeous chinese girls (unfortunately we get the chinese men too) coming into the town. This is offset by loads of gorgeous European girls arriving in October. Damn I wish I was young again
Liranan M'8'S Frontal Impact	Posted - 2008.12.03 09:57:00 - [36] Edited by: Liranan on 03/12/2008 10:00:53 Nice piece of propaganda there. Well done to the Telegraph. There is no panic in China and there is no wide spread unrest. The only widespread unrest is the propaganda and lies spread by Western media. China is a very complicated country in which the people have no idea what democracy is and wouldn't know what to do with it. The majority of the people are very content as long as they get paid and have food to eat. There are hundreds of millions of people working in the provinces mentioned and all the Telegraph have to mention are 500 people rioting. The article mentions that 7% is needed to ensure jobs for the millions of graduates but it is a given fact that more than 30% of those won't be able to find jobs anyway. Not because there are no jobs but because of the Chinese education system in which nobody fails and everyone graduates with a dregree. There are serious social problems, that is undeniable but they are no smaller or larger than any other country. The country is ran by corruption and if that were to be removed from Chinese society the country would totally collapse. Environmental problems are out of control and the country is beyond dirty, but that is not just because of industry but also because the people just don't understand and are not educated as to the concequences of uncontrolled pollution. If we take the real world and compare it with EVE China and the US would be the Caldari State where the corporations get government bailouts rather than those who need it the most, i.e. the people. I could go on and on about how wrong you people are but I am not. I just don't care to spend hours explaining the intricate details of Chinese, or even East Asian, society. If you want to know what China is really like you need to leave your own countries and experience it. Then you can say that you really know what you are talking about, rather than just mimicking what you are told by your own governments. Farjung is my God You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link.
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.12.03 12:03:00 - [37] Originally by: Irulan S'Dijana lol @ china becoming a democracy. Not a chance in hell. There is simply no cultural or historical precedent, and bar the last 100 years there hasn't even been any desire for it. Sorry to be blunt - but this is plain ignorant. Before a nation goes democratic for the first time it has no historical precedent. But if that were any prove its people don't want or can't handle a democracy then there would not be any. Obviously every democratic nation had to start at some point. Looking at historical trends it looks like becoming a democracy is a natural progression after feudal and dictatorial stages. With regard to money trading being the problem and creating poverty - BS. The problem is mainly crappy governments. A financial crisis may hit hard once in a while - crappy government abuses and mismanages every day. It's powerhungry dicatators, crazy ideologues and corrupt regimes that create and prolong poverty on this planet. All other problems (weather, trade patterns, natural catastrophes, etc...) come in second and way behind. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
jason hill Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.03 15:02:00 - [38] just had a thought. it china goes **** up they will take north korea with them destroy everything you touch
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction The Firm.	Posted - 2008.12.03 19:22:00 - [39] Originally by: Liranan If there ever was to be another 'revolution' it would be because of three factors: - the insane devide between those who have billions of Euro's and those who live just above the poverty line (uncontrolled Capitalism) snip That is my base case expectation, within a generation. The adjustment may not necessarily take the form of a revolution in the classical sense; a gradual slide into disorder (more broadly than civil) is as likely, culminating in depopulation beyond the UN's ability to catalogue, and collapse in societal complexity. Any political discontinuity in this context would be a sensational aspect and not the main story. The problem at its most basic is size of population and access to calories: food and chemical. China cannot feed itself and decades of accumulated damage to its environment are in competition with all the achievements of the green revolution. The majority of its economic activity is either directly export oriented or facilitates the export economy, and this is responsible for funding the calorie difference and fueling growth and expectations of growth of living standards. China's chief competitive advantage is low cost labour whilst achieving acceptable manufacturing quality. This specialisation would in ordinary circumstances accelerate development and eventually give rise to an internal market large enough to make the economy more self-financing, a well-trodden path followed by other countries before it. However, on the eve of a deflationary credit collapse, more commonly known as a depression, the means by which this specialisation is achieved - global wage arbitrage - turns out to possess exposure to grave losses. The developed world will in years to come find itself in difficult times, another depression in the style of those which began in 1873 and 1929 with the added inconvenience of a less appropriate skill base. On the basis of my expectation that quite large numbers of people in the developed world will be grudgingly willing to relocate and work for food, demand for discretionary Chinese exports will be destroyed, and the need to procure essentials from that quarter will be greatly diminished. Overall then, a colossal destruction of demand which will make a large proportion of the Chinese economy redundant considerably faster than its ability to adapt. Depressed wages and living standards and stark changes to specialisation of labour in the developed world would then arbitrage the export hubs of the developing world into starvation. China makes for a high profile case study, but would be neither unique nor perhaps even the most interesting. As an aside, I am more inclined to view corruption as an adaptation than an existential threat.
Arianhod	Posted - 2008.12.03 19:44:00 - [40] So Sy, continuing that line of thought could that lead to the IMF having to bail out China so as to finance food for its population a few years down the line? Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. Haruhiists - Supporting Linkification since 2008
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction The Firm.	Posted - 2008.12.03 20:02:00 - [41] Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 03/12/2008 20:07:43 Originally by: Arianhod So Sy, continuing that line of thought could that lead to the IMF having to bail out China so as to finance food for its population a few years down the line? Possibly, but the IMF only has a quarter trillion dollars to play with and a sizable chunk has already been disbursed to Iceland, a number of East European countries and Pakistan. The rest will be vouched for before long. No-one could prop up China without printing, and the inflationary effects could be devastating, especially coming after its liquidation of US and other foreign Treasuries, which it would do first if it desperately needed cash. China is the Bailout at the End of the Universe, put it that way. I can see how it might get to the point of needing one, but I do not see how in the circumstances necessary, there would be anything to be gained from doing it. The country and its challenges are just too big for anyone to deal with, its people are a fifth of the world, so the fall of the Soviet Union is no guide except to demonstrate that when it goes, its experience will be far worse.
brakespear Minmatar Heaven Up Here	Posted - 2008.12.03 22:05:00 - [42] hmmmm...well it is the torygraph after all, so maybe just a little pinch of salt with it :) -------------------------------------------------- 'people will always be tempted to wipe their feet on anything with 'welcome' written on it.'
Creiger Rykov	Posted - 2008.12.03 22:10:00 - [43] Originally by: Shanzem Edited by: Shanzem on 26/11/2008 20:38:15 Originally by: Tzar'rim Everytime some country is going half bankrupt and has massive inflation someone is getting filthy rich off of it. Quote: The Chinese government has also announced a ú373bn bailout to stimulate domestic growth by investing in infrastructure. However, only a fifth of the money is likely to come from central government coffers, with the rest coming from a mix of private enterprise and local government funds And there it is. \o/whos buying china i bet its some American banks Actually the US was borrowing heavily from China until they cut us off.
Liranan M'8'S Frontal Impact	Posted - 2008.12.04 02:20:00 - [44] Originally by: Cmdr Sy That is my base case expectation, within a generation. The adjustment may not necessarily take the form of a revolution in the classical sense; a gradual slide into disorder (more broadly than civil) is as likely, culminating in depopulation beyond the UN's ability to catalogue, and collapse in societal complexity. Any political discontinuity in this context would be a sensational aspect and not the main story. A few months ago there was a riot revolving around the death of a 16 year old girl who had, supposedly, jumped off a bridge but had been seen with a relative of a high ranking party official before being found dead. Then there was a riot in Sichuan where around a hundred thousand people took to the streets and rioted because reconstruction funds had gone missing (stolen of course). The devide between the wealthy and the poor masks the massive destruction of the environment in China. Because it is the wealthy who are laying waste to everything they come across. There're many thick green canals feeding crops, which in turn will die because the land turn into pure poison. I am heavily concentrating on the environment because it has been predicted that any new revolution would come from the countryside where the 'War on the environment' is still heavily underway (started by Mao during his disasterous Cultural Revolution). There're over seventy thousand riots and demonstrations which go unreported in China. Corruption is a very large problem but the central government is unable to deal with it because it's an inherent part of the culture. It is a very complex problem that needs strong leadership to solve but Beijing has very little control over the provinces and local officials who bribe other officials to have investigations, into their misconduct, suppressed. The people in China aren't unhappy with the non-democratic nature of the system but with the corruption within it. We will see how this developes but I can see the situation turning very bad, very quickly. Right now the people are being kept quiet because there're enough jobs to feed the masses. Once those jobs are gone then we will see discontent rising to the surface. The saying used to be "Mao did 70% right and 30%" wrong, now the saying is "Find something Mao did right". Farjung is my God You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link.
Qel Hoth Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.12.04 04:14:00 - [45] Originally by: Cikulisuy good, the "people's" republic of china is such a joke. its repressionist regime should die, immediately. and i sincerely hope this does happen, however from what has happened in the past it will likely just be replaced with another regime of equal or greater evil, the real problem with china is that there is an absurd unemployed labor force, so that when random factory man gets maimed because of unsafe machinery, there are immediately thousands of starving men just like him to take his place. unionizing is illegal etc. so yes, i hate china, in its current incarnation it should just die horribly in a fire. TBH, China's labor laws are about as strict as the USs or UKs during the same period of their respective industrialization, so China isn't doing anything that hasn't been done before. Not to say that the government isn't oppressive. Given time China will fix itself and have worker's rights laws. ----- The above does not represent the opinions of my corp or alliance.
Liranan M'8'S Frontal Impact	Posted - 2008.12.04 06:59:00 - [46] Originally by: Qel Hoth TBH, China's labor laws are about as strict as the USs or UKs during the same period of their respective industrialization, so China isn't doing anything that hasn't been done before. Not to say that the government isn't oppressive. Given time China will fix itself and have worker's rights laws. No more oppressive than the UK. The people have certain freedoms people in Europe do not, and the people in Europe have freedoms the Chinese do not. Farjung is my God You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link.
Souvera Corvus Gallente SPORADIC MOVEMENT FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.12.04 07:26:00 - [47] Edited by: Souvera Corvus on 04/12/2008 07:30:39 China isn't 'screwed' but it has a host of problems that its current regime is ill-equpped to deal with. In this its shares its struggles with many countries around the world but in China's case the population ensures a proportionately higher scale. If you spend any time in China at all and I'm fortunate enough to live there then one of the things that srikes you is that the lack of any kind of 'real' democratic process means that there is an enforced remoteness bewteen the Chinese people and their government. On a very simple level this means that the ill-feeling that the Chinese government tends to engender through its appalling foreign policy, illiberal use of the death penalty, rampant consumption of natural resources and invation and occupation of Tibet is quite often completely dissolved by the outstanding warmth and generosity of its people. The contrast is breathtaking and gives hope for the future. They're also far more informed than people would have you believe and underneath their unabashed love of their country which no-one is to begrudge there is a genuine desire to co-exist as equals. The tension that this distance between the government and governed engenders is exacerbated by the 'Robber Baron' capitalism that has mushroomed in places such as the southern special economic region that centres on Shenzhen. Unfettered development has disenfranchised as many as its made rich and consolidated the corruption that is endemic in China and has been for centuries. Not a pretty picture and Lirana lays out the background to some of it well. Its here that the real pressure lies because economic and political freedom have historically held each others hand in terms of a nation states development. The communist party continues to hold sway and will continue to do so for the forseeable future but recognises the need for change. As far as the pace of change holds matches the expectations of the people then all is not lost in terms of a peaceful outcome. One has to look at Russia to see the cost of unregulated loosening of state control to realise just how bad it might get and in this sense China is doing an admirable job. Its not going to be enough in the long run I'd suggest and that in our life-time we'll see very real change in China. How that arrives however is anyone's guess. It could be very bad but for all our sakes I sincerely hope its not. The Chinese people deserve far more then they've experienced for the last two hundred years and I hope they get it. I ramble but you get the idea. Don't fear China, have sympathy for it.
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Celestial Industrial Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.04 08:18:00 - [48] The problem China faces is that its people have never been anywhere near free. They've been either playthings of their emperors or communists, with a few years in between when they all said, "Wait, what?" This means that they can't easily transition into a democratic society. Even if there were some miracle that made the country democratic overnight, most of the population would be completely lost, without a clue what to do. I think of Pratchett's "Lords and Ladies" in which King Verence tried to introduce democracy to Lancre, and the population rejected it because kings shouldn't be lazy by letting the populace do the ruling. The Chinese have been indoctrinated over a couple thousand years to be sheep. They're told what to do and do it. The vast majority wouldn't know what to do if they were given options and choices (those who do know have become China's most powerful politicians and businessmen). Thus democracy needs to be slowly introduced to China, as it is -- as my earlier comment bout Chairman Mao indicates -- and eventually they'll become a democracy, though not for a long time. Here in the States we were lucky. We came from an England that had a relatively non-centralized leadership, and as colonies we were even more free since we were removed from the central control of the King. There were few official laws that anyone followed unless anyone wanted to. Thus when we revolted we had a good idea what we were getting into. It wasn't really smooth, but a lot smoother than going from strong central ruler/bureaucracy to near-total-freedom (comparatively) almost overnight that so many outsiders want to do today. Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said Originally by: Chribba Go F'nog! You're a hero! Not a Zero! /me bows
Liranan M'8'S Frontal Impact	Posted - 2008.12.04 09:25:00 - [49] Edited by: Liranan on 04/12/2008 09:34:17 Originally by: F'nog communists China was never a Communist state, as such a thing doesn't exist. The only real Marxist (as close to Communist as is possible) state that exists is the Federation in Star Trek. Originally by: F'nog The Chinese have been indoctrinated over a couple thousand years to be sheep. They're told what to do and do it. The vast majority wouldn't know what to do if they were given options and choices (those who do know have become China's most powerful politicians and businessmen). Thus democracy needs to be slowly introduced to China, as it is -- as my earlier comment bout Chairman Mao indicates -- and eventually they'll become a democracy, though not for a long time. This also applies to many Western 'democracies' which have turned into (corporate) autocracies for many reasons, complacency not being the least of them. Farjung is my God You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link.

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