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Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2012.04.09 00:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why have the market prices for ships gone up by such an extreme amount in the past month? Ships are becoming unaffordable for combat pilots who do missions to make isk. The payouts or bounties don't increase with inflation. Now I hear that a few sources of minerals in the game are going away which will cause the prices of ships to increase even more? Missions will become pointless, soon. Can you imagine the chaos in real life if the prices of cars and trucks increase by 40-50% in just one month like the cost of many ships have in Eve? CCP wins with inflation, however, since combat pilots will buy plexes to get isk instead of doing missions. |
Dersk
EXPCS Corp SpaceMonkey's Alliance
52
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Posted - 2012.04.09 00:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mineral prices are affecting the prices of the things they make. Maelstroms didn't just rise to 200 million on their own.
An incomplete and possibly inaccurate list of reasons minerals are more expensive includes: Demand for thousands of new ships (tier 3 battlecruisers for example) in a short period of time. 8 thousand character alliance booted from drone regions, and aren't looting drone hordes much lately. Speculation of marketeers wanting to buy minerals before their price rises to compensate for the reduction in supply due to drone changes. Scares of veldspar fighting back has whittled away at the number of active miners. |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
61
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Posted - 2012.04.09 01:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote:Why have the market prices for ships gone up by such an extreme amount in the past month?
Because ships are built using minerals. If mineral prices go up, then ship prices must go up. Otherwise, if ships are on the market below mineral cost, I buy them, reprocess them, and then sell the minerals.
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Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
131
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Posted - 2012.04.09 01:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
prices for products are high you say? damn, sounds like an excellent time to, you know, produce and sell the products. The Order of the Falcon or Hin +ˇslenska f+ílkaor+¦a is a national Order of Iceland |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2012.04.09 01:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ottersmacker wrote:prices for products are high you say? damn, sounds like an excellent time to, you know, produce and sell the products. I'm a combat pilot, not an industrial pilot. I want to do combat, not mine and make ships. Isn't this supposed to be a "sandbox" as people like to call it? |
Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
131
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Posted - 2012.04.09 01:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Of course it is a sandbox, and herein lies the answer to your problem as well I believe. At this time you seem to have chosen the way of the minimum wage job (because nobody is unemployed in EVE thanks to missions and bounties functioning as a job guarantee.. which is great!) as your income. You could re-evaluate your options and aim for a higher income, even in the framework of 'combat pilot' as you prefer.
Or what solution would you propose? Should speculators stop driving up prices, or is it their right in the sandbox? Should industrialists sell wares without profit to accommodate everyone's choices of cheap scrub-tier spacecraft? The Order of the Falcon or Hin +ˇslenska f+ílkaor+¦a is a national Order of Iceland |
Barakach
R-ISK Shadow Operations.
35
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Posted - 2012.04.09 01:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote:Ottersmacker wrote:prices for products are high you say? damn, sounds like an excellent time to, you know, produce and sell the products. I'm a combat pilot, not an industrial pilot. I want to do combat, not mine and make ships. Isn't this supposed to be a "sandbox" as people like to call it?
"sandbox" as in mostly unregulated.
This should be a temporary transition. As minerals prices go up, more miners will show up to take advantage of the high value of minerals. As more and more minerals pack into the market, prices will go down. As prices of minerals go down from the growing supply, more people will start manufacturing.
It's a free market, the people set the prices, not CCP. |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2012.04.09 01:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
I don't know enough about economics to offer solutions to rising prices for minerals, and therefore ships. I also don't have a solution to inflation. I'm just very concerned that this trend could continue without increasing the rewards from combat missions and bounties. I sold my old character so I have a buffer of isk. However, these prices will put ships out of range for new pilots. I have played prior to 2010 and missions alone were adequate to pay for all my PvP ships, even some faction/deadspace fits. I didn't even have to loot or salvage. But, prices have increased a lot since then. |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
61
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Posted - 2012.04.09 02:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote:I don't know enough about economics to offer solutions to rising prices for minerals, and therefore ships.
We saw this comming and offered MRDs as a solution to rising prices.
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Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2012.04.09 02:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Block Ukx wrote:Perihelion Olenard wrote:I don't know enough about economics to offer solutions to rising prices for minerals, and therefore ships. We saw this comming and offered MRDs as a solution to rising prices. MRD? |
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Xaqa
Cryptic Arch
3
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Posted - 2012.04.09 02:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
I would stop now.
Keep in mind: if things can go up, they can go down. The Cryptic Arch - Always Building |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2012.04.09 02:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Xaqa wrote:I would stop now.
Keep in mind: if things can go up, they can go down. Stop what, exactly? Asking questions and being concerned? And what is a MRD? |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
61
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Posted - 2012.04.09 02:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote: MRD?
Mineral Reserve Dollar
Prospectus
Stock Exchange
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Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
106
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Posted - 2012.04.09 03:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
PvP in eve is ending. We needed a special combination of secure neutral zone (high sec) and sec resource inputs (mission loot) to make it workable. CCP nerfed those. Unfortunately the price at which enough people will mine to meet demand is higher than the price people are willing to pay for PvP ships.
Either CCP does something or market forces are going to make PvP unaffordable for the mass of players. I don't think CCP has fully grasped this yet. I expect they will do so after another price doubling. |
Brock Nelson
551
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Posted - 2012.04.09 03:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Good lord Jas...we're being overly dramatic aren't we?
Buy a time machine and go back to 2007 and let me know how much everything is Signature removed, CCP Phantom |
Moto Akimoto
Tengu and Cash
5
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Posted - 2012.04.09 03:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
This market is awesome!
I wish market prices would swing like this all year long. |
Nohb Oddy
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.04.09 03:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
You're a PvP pilot who is having a hard time dealing with the market price changes?
Here's what you do: Pick up a hauler, and go out looting cans from people jet can mining.
Or, fit up a Destroyer and go out seeking mining ships with weak tanks and see if you can take them out before CONCORD gets you.
Or, Get into a BS and stick miners on it (Rohk works well I've heard) and join them until the market settles. Nohb Oddy likes you. |
Comy 1
Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
99
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Posted - 2012.04.09 03:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote:I don't know enough about economics to offer solutions to rising prices for minerals, and therefore ships. I also don't have a solution to inflation. I'm just very concerned that this trend could continue without increasing the rewards from combat missions and bounties. I sold my old character so I have a buffer of isk. However, these prices will put ships out of range for new pilots. I have played prior to 2010 and missions alone were adequate to pay for all my PvP ships, even some faction/deadspace fits. I didn't even have to loot or salvage. But, prices have increased a lot since then.
Actually, I would say that the reason to why the prices of ships are increasing is BECAUSE combat missions, incursions etc pay too much. Which sane person would cut his income in half to mine or manufacture when all you can do is join one of the "elite" incursion fleets and print isk like if there was no tomorrow.
When everyone gets rich by doing this, combined with the drone region change mineral prices are bound to go up, since not enough people will mine enough minerals to keep the prices on the same level as before.
So if you really want cheaper ships. Ask CCP to LOWER all income from combat related PvE to make more people spend their time PvEing by mining and manufacturing. |
Nohb Oddy
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.04.09 04:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Comy 1 wrote:Perihelion Olenard wrote:I don't know enough about economics to offer solutions to rising prices for minerals, and therefore ships. I also don't have a solution to inflation. I'm just very concerned that this trend could continue without increasing the rewards from combat missions and bounties. I sold my old character so I have a buffer of isk. However, these prices will put ships out of range for new pilots. I have played prior to 2010 and missions alone were adequate to pay for all my PvP ships, even some faction/deadspace fits. I didn't even have to loot or salvage. But, prices have increased a lot since then. Actually, I would say that the reason to why the prices of ships are increasing is BECAUSE combat missions, incursions etc pay too much. Which sane person would cut his income in half to mine or manufacture when all you can do is join one of the "elite" incursion fleets and print isk like if there was no tomorrow. When everyone gets rich by doing this, combined with the drone region change mineral prices are bound to go up, since not enough people will mine enough minerals to keep the prices on the same level as before. So if you really want cheaper ships. Ask CCP to LOWER all income from combat related PvE to make more people spend their time PvEing by mining and manufacturing. Coming from the man with a Monocle. Nohb Oddy likes you. |
Comy 1
Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
99
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Posted - 2012.04.09 04:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nohb Oddy wrote:Coming from the man with a Monocle.
The fact that I'm beautiful doesn't make it less true. |
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Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
413
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Posted - 2012.04.09 04:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Comy 1 wrote:Nohb Oddy wrote:Coming from the man with a Monocle. The fact that I'm beautiful doesn't make it less true.
Quite right my dear friend. Personally I can afford many monocles, but I chose not to because my glasses are awesome.
Prices go up, people need to suck it up. PVP fleets fitting t2 battleships 24/7 is not fun. It'll be good when battleships are too costly to just throw away. Being forced from a financial pov to do smaller ship fleets will make pvp a bit more fun, especially for newer people. Large volumes of highly researched Ammo, drones, charges and ship bpo's. Biggest BPO store in EVE! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524 |
Nohb Oddy
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.04.09 04:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Riley Moore wrote:Comy 1 wrote:Nohb Oddy wrote:Coming from the man with a Monocle. The fact that I'm beautiful doesn't make it less true. Quite right my dear friend. Personally I can afford many monocles, but I chose not to because my glasses are awesome. So we've got two isk mongers sitting on their high horses telling everyone else just to 'suck it up.' Why not just follow this up with "Let them eat cake" just for good measure. Nohb Oddy likes you. |
Comy 1
Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
99
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Posted - 2012.04.09 04:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Nohb Oddy wrote:Riley Moore wrote:Comy 1 wrote:Nohb Oddy wrote:Coming from the man with a Monocle. The fact that I'm beautiful doesn't make it less true. Quite right my dear friend. Personally I can afford many monocles, but I chose not to because my glasses are awesome. So we've got two isk mongers sitting on their high horses telling everyone else just to 'suck it up.' Why not just follow this up with "Let them eat cake" just for good measure.
So basically what you want, is for everyone to get more isk, while prices stay the same? There will always be rich and poor people in EVE, the only thing that can change is that the average Joe has either a big or small number in his wallet. If the average guy suddenly has double the ammount of liquid isk than he had 1 year ago, I will be damned if the price of ships will not be the double aswell.
People get rich in EVE because they go (atleast) 1 step further than the average guy, put in the extra hour, do the research or perfect his gameplay. No fine tuning to mission payouts, bounties or incursion rewards are gonna change that.
Knowledge is power in EVE.
Know how to get isk, and you shall get it. |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
106
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Posted - 2012.04.09 04:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Brock Nelson wrote:Good lord Jas...we're being overly dramatic aren't we?
Buy a time machine and go back to 2007 and let me know how much everything is
Brock Nelson wrote:Good lord Jas...we're being overly dramatic aren't we?
Buy a time machine and go back to 2007 and let me know how much everything is
Excluding T2 goods these prices are high even for 2007 (for one thing Trit was around 2.5/unit back then). Drake is at 53m now. I expect it'll top 60m by the end of the week.
Lets say a hulk is going to pull 1600m/3 minute (about what you would expect from a hulk that is near maxed out according to EFT). =50000000/60/( (1600/71.17) *1000)
If the miner is mining veld and wants to make 50m/hours that gives us a price for trit of around 37. For 20m/hour it gives us 14.82.
Unless CCP caps mineral prices, things are going to get interesting. It isn't just a matter of nerfing incursions. CCP would need to nerf level 4 missions blow the 20m / hour point to make mining worth it.
Conclusion: most miners were bots and CCP just opened up a can of consequences in banning them. |
Nohb Oddy
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.04.09 05:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Oh, don't get me wrong. I feel that those without isk are without isk for a reason. And if they want isk they should do something about it instead of complaining. I just find it funny that it is the person with a monocle talking down to others.
CCP should not step in and do any price setting or adjusting. Sure, these prices may be the result of bot banning, and RMT asset removal. It is just a change. Those who are unable to adapt will suffer, those who can will prosper. That IS the nature of EvE, and the foundation of a good Sandbox game. Nohb Oddy likes you. |
Comy 1
Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
101
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Posted - 2012.04.09 07:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nohb Oddy wrote:Oh, don't get me wrong. I feel that those without isk are without isk for a reason. And if they want isk they should do something about it instead of complaining. I just find it funny that it is the person with a monocle talking down to others.
CCP should not step in and do any price setting or adjusting. Sure, these prices may be the result of bot banning, and RMT asset removal. It is just a change. Those who are unable to adapt will suffer, those who can will prosper. That IS the nature of EvE, and the foundation of a good Sandbox game.
So because my internet spaceship avatar is wearing a monocle, my attempt to explain what is happening is considered looking down at people?
Geez hypocrite. |
Nateddog
Ghost Ravens Reborn Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.04.09 08:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
One of the things that makes EVE so unique is its dog eat dog world feel. Whether talking about free market forces, pvp mechanics or anything else. I think that the less CCP does the better, when it comes to the economic side of the game. I welcome the market shakeup and the fact that when the dust settles prices will probably be more reflective of actual market clearing prices. This can only make a market more efficient. To suggest that rising prices of goods will prevent a virtual world of players who all have the desire to blow up internet spaceships from doing so, is simply wrong. All of us will still be here wanting to blow stuff up, ships will still take the same amount of minerals to build, and rocks will still be floating in belts just waiting for the chance to become your next drake :) |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
129
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Posted - 2012.04.09 08:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
Not sure why there are so many flames for such an easy answer.
Prices are going up because mineral prices are going up. Minerals are going up because:
-Mining bots are being banned 24/7, not in waves -Speculation due to drones lands giving bounties instead of alloys come Inferno -Speculation due to missions not dropping meta 0 loot come Inferno -Nocxium price ceiling removed, allowing it to go as high as it wants to go -People not building/mining in fear of Burn Jita and Hulkageddon operations -People holding onto minerals for the Inferno patch to see how high prices will go
In my really awful and most likely wrong opinion I don't think prices will increase that much more due to Inferno, maybe plus 20%-30% or even drop down a bit who knows. Some mineral prices are close to what they were pre-drone lands and a lot of mission refined minerals come from meta 1-3 mods so I feel like we've seen the worst of it. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
515
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Posted - 2012.04.09 08:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
PvP happens.
Usually with pew pew ships, this time with pew pew markets.
For once it's the pew pew ships who have to harden up, reroll an indy character and go mine. Waiting for yer tears when you'll get popped though. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Ank Parkor
WildSpace Otters
16
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Posted - 2012.04.09 08:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
So you thought that only pvpers can grief us? Ice interdiction? Hulk interdiction? Now it's ship interdiction. Have fun with pvp in your rookie ship
Traders/Indy/Miners unite!
... Let me dream.
Short time trader, short term missioner, long term ambitions. |
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