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Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 00:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why have the market prices for ships gone up by such an extreme amount in the past month? Ships are becoming unaffordable for combat pilots who do missions to make isk. The payouts or bounties don't increase with inflation. Now I hear that a few sources of minerals in the game are going away which will cause the prices of ships to increase even more? Missions will become pointless, soon. Can you imagine the chaos in real life if the prices of cars and trucks increase by 40-50% in just one month like the cost of many ships have in Eve? CCP wins with inflation, however, since combat pilots will buy plexes to get isk instead of doing missions. |
Dersk
EXPCS Corp SpaceMonkey's Alliance
52
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 00:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mineral prices are affecting the prices of the things they make. Maelstroms didn't just rise to 200 million on their own.
An incomplete and possibly inaccurate list of reasons minerals are more expensive includes: Demand for thousands of new ships (tier 3 battlecruisers for example) in a short period of time. 8 thousand character alliance booted from drone regions, and aren't looting drone hordes much lately. Speculation of marketeers wanting to buy minerals before their price rises to compensate for the reduction in supply due to drone changes. Scares of veldspar fighting back has whittled away at the number of active miners. |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
61
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 01:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote:Why have the market prices for ships gone up by such an extreme amount in the past month?
Because ships are built using minerals. If mineral prices go up, then ship prices must go up. Otherwise, if ships are on the market below mineral cost, I buy them, reprocess them, and then sell the minerals.
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Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
131
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 01:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
prices for products are high you say? damn, sounds like an excellent time to, you know, produce and sell the products. The Order of the Falcon or Hin +ˇslenska f+ílkaor+¦a is a national Order of Iceland |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 01:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ottersmacker wrote:prices for products are high you say? damn, sounds like an excellent time to, you know, produce and sell the products. I'm a combat pilot, not an industrial pilot. I want to do combat, not mine and make ships. Isn't this supposed to be a "sandbox" as people like to call it? |
Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
131
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 01:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Of course it is a sandbox, and herein lies the answer to your problem as well I believe. At this time you seem to have chosen the way of the minimum wage job (because nobody is unemployed in EVE thanks to missions and bounties functioning as a job guarantee.. which is great!) as your income. You could re-evaluate your options and aim for a higher income, even in the framework of 'combat pilot' as you prefer.
Or what solution would you propose? Should speculators stop driving up prices, or is it their right in the sandbox? Should industrialists sell wares without profit to accommodate everyone's choices of cheap scrub-tier spacecraft? The Order of the Falcon or Hin +ˇslenska f+ílkaor+¦a is a national Order of Iceland |
Barakach
R-ISK Shadow Operations.
35
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 01:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote:Ottersmacker wrote:prices for products are high you say? damn, sounds like an excellent time to, you know, produce and sell the products. I'm a combat pilot, not an industrial pilot. I want to do combat, not mine and make ships. Isn't this supposed to be a "sandbox" as people like to call it?
"sandbox" as in mostly unregulated.
This should be a temporary transition. As minerals prices go up, more miners will show up to take advantage of the high value of minerals. As more and more minerals pack into the market, prices will go down. As prices of minerals go down from the growing supply, more people will start manufacturing.
It's a free market, the people set the prices, not CCP. |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 01:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
I don't know enough about economics to offer solutions to rising prices for minerals, and therefore ships. I also don't have a solution to inflation. I'm just very concerned that this trend could continue without increasing the rewards from combat missions and bounties. I sold my old character so I have a buffer of isk. However, these prices will put ships out of range for new pilots. I have played prior to 2010 and missions alone were adequate to pay for all my PvP ships, even some faction/deadspace fits. I didn't even have to loot or salvage. But, prices have increased a lot since then. |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
61
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 02:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote:I don't know enough about economics to offer solutions to rising prices for minerals, and therefore ships.
We saw this comming and offered MRDs as a solution to rising prices.
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Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 02:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Block Ukx wrote:Perihelion Olenard wrote:I don't know enough about economics to offer solutions to rising prices for minerals, and therefore ships. We saw this comming and offered MRDs as a solution to rising prices. MRD? |
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Xaqa
Cryptic Arch
3
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Posted - 2012.04.09 02:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
I would stop now.
Keep in mind: if things can go up, they can go down. The Cryptic Arch - Always Building |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 02:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Xaqa wrote:I would stop now.
Keep in mind: if things can go up, they can go down. Stop what, exactly? Asking questions and being concerned? And what is a MRD? |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
61
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 02:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote: MRD?
Mineral Reserve Dollar
Prospectus
Stock Exchange
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Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
106
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 03:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
PvP in eve is ending. We needed a special combination of secure neutral zone (high sec) and sec resource inputs (mission loot) to make it workable. CCP nerfed those. Unfortunately the price at which enough people will mine to meet demand is higher than the price people are willing to pay for PvP ships.
Either CCP does something or market forces are going to make PvP unaffordable for the mass of players. I don't think CCP has fully grasped this yet. I expect they will do so after another price doubling. |
Brock Nelson
551
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 03:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Good lord Jas...we're being overly dramatic aren't we?
Buy a time machine and go back to 2007 and let me know how much everything is Signature removed, CCP Phantom |
Moto Akimoto
Tengu and Cash
5
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 03:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
This market is awesome!
I wish market prices would swing like this all year long. |
Nohb Oddy
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 03:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
You're a PvP pilot who is having a hard time dealing with the market price changes?
Here's what you do: Pick up a hauler, and go out looting cans from people jet can mining.
Or, fit up a Destroyer and go out seeking mining ships with weak tanks and see if you can take them out before CONCORD gets you.
Or, Get into a BS and stick miners on it (Rohk works well I've heard) and join them until the market settles. Nohb Oddy likes you. |
Comy 1
Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 03:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote:I don't know enough about economics to offer solutions to rising prices for minerals, and therefore ships. I also don't have a solution to inflation. I'm just very concerned that this trend could continue without increasing the rewards from combat missions and bounties. I sold my old character so I have a buffer of isk. However, these prices will put ships out of range for new pilots. I have played prior to 2010 and missions alone were adequate to pay for all my PvP ships, even some faction/deadspace fits. I didn't even have to loot or salvage. But, prices have increased a lot since then.
Actually, I would say that the reason to why the prices of ships are increasing is BECAUSE combat missions, incursions etc pay too much. Which sane person would cut his income in half to mine or manufacture when all you can do is join one of the "elite" incursion fleets and print isk like if there was no tomorrow.
When everyone gets rich by doing this, combined with the drone region change mineral prices are bound to go up, since not enough people will mine enough minerals to keep the prices on the same level as before.
So if you really want cheaper ships. Ask CCP to LOWER all income from combat related PvE to make more people spend their time PvEing by mining and manufacturing. |
Nohb Oddy
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 04:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Comy 1 wrote:Perihelion Olenard wrote:I don't know enough about economics to offer solutions to rising prices for minerals, and therefore ships. I also don't have a solution to inflation. I'm just very concerned that this trend could continue without increasing the rewards from combat missions and bounties. I sold my old character so I have a buffer of isk. However, these prices will put ships out of range for new pilots. I have played prior to 2010 and missions alone were adequate to pay for all my PvP ships, even some faction/deadspace fits. I didn't even have to loot or salvage. But, prices have increased a lot since then. Actually, I would say that the reason to why the prices of ships are increasing is BECAUSE combat missions, incursions etc pay too much. Which sane person would cut his income in half to mine or manufacture when all you can do is join one of the "elite" incursion fleets and print isk like if there was no tomorrow. When everyone gets rich by doing this, combined with the drone region change mineral prices are bound to go up, since not enough people will mine enough minerals to keep the prices on the same level as before. So if you really want cheaper ships. Ask CCP to LOWER all income from combat related PvE to make more people spend their time PvEing by mining and manufacturing. Coming from the man with a Monocle. Nohb Oddy likes you. |
Comy 1
Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 04:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nohb Oddy wrote:Coming from the man with a Monocle.
The fact that I'm beautiful doesn't make it less true. |
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Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
413
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 04:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Comy 1 wrote:Nohb Oddy wrote:Coming from the man with a Monocle. The fact that I'm beautiful doesn't make it less true.
Quite right my dear friend. Personally I can afford many monocles, but I chose not to because my glasses are awesome.
Prices go up, people need to suck it up. PVP fleets fitting t2 battleships 24/7 is not fun. It'll be good when battleships are too costly to just throw away. Being forced from a financial pov to do smaller ship fleets will make pvp a bit more fun, especially for newer people. Large volumes of highly researched Ammo, drones, charges and ship bpo's. Biggest BPO store in EVE! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524 |
Nohb Oddy
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 04:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Riley Moore wrote:Comy 1 wrote:Nohb Oddy wrote:Coming from the man with a Monocle. The fact that I'm beautiful doesn't make it less true. Quite right my dear friend. Personally I can afford many monocles, but I chose not to because my glasses are awesome. So we've got two isk mongers sitting on their high horses telling everyone else just to 'suck it up.' Why not just follow this up with "Let them eat cake" just for good measure. Nohb Oddy likes you. |
Comy 1
Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 04:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Nohb Oddy wrote:Riley Moore wrote:Comy 1 wrote:Nohb Oddy wrote:Coming from the man with a Monocle. The fact that I'm beautiful doesn't make it less true. Quite right my dear friend. Personally I can afford many monocles, but I chose not to because my glasses are awesome. So we've got two isk mongers sitting on their high horses telling everyone else just to 'suck it up.' Why not just follow this up with "Let them eat cake" just for good measure.
So basically what you want, is for everyone to get more isk, while prices stay the same? There will always be rich and poor people in EVE, the only thing that can change is that the average Joe has either a big or small number in his wallet. If the average guy suddenly has double the ammount of liquid isk than he had 1 year ago, I will be damned if the price of ships will not be the double aswell.
People get rich in EVE because they go (atleast) 1 step further than the average guy, put in the extra hour, do the research or perfect his gameplay. No fine tuning to mission payouts, bounties or incursion rewards are gonna change that.
Knowledge is power in EVE.
Know how to get isk, and you shall get it. |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
106
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 04:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Brock Nelson wrote:Good lord Jas...we're being overly dramatic aren't we?
Buy a time machine and go back to 2007 and let me know how much everything is
Brock Nelson wrote:Good lord Jas...we're being overly dramatic aren't we?
Buy a time machine and go back to 2007 and let me know how much everything is
Excluding T2 goods these prices are high even for 2007 (for one thing Trit was around 2.5/unit back then). Drake is at 53m now. I expect it'll top 60m by the end of the week.
Lets say a hulk is going to pull 1600m/3 minute (about what you would expect from a hulk that is near maxed out according to EFT). =50000000/60/( (1600/71.17) *1000)
If the miner is mining veld and wants to make 50m/hours that gives us a price for trit of around 37. For 20m/hour it gives us 14.82.
Unless CCP caps mineral prices, things are going to get interesting. It isn't just a matter of nerfing incursions. CCP would need to nerf level 4 missions blow the 20m / hour point to make mining worth it.
Conclusion: most miners were bots and CCP just opened up a can of consequences in banning them. |
Nohb Oddy
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 05:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Oh, don't get me wrong. I feel that those without isk are without isk for a reason. And if they want isk they should do something about it instead of complaining. I just find it funny that it is the person with a monocle talking down to others.
CCP should not step in and do any price setting or adjusting. Sure, these prices may be the result of bot banning, and RMT asset removal. It is just a change. Those who are unable to adapt will suffer, those who can will prosper. That IS the nature of EvE, and the foundation of a good Sandbox game. Nohb Oddy likes you. |
Comy 1
Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
101
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 07:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nohb Oddy wrote:Oh, don't get me wrong. I feel that those without isk are without isk for a reason. And if they want isk they should do something about it instead of complaining. I just find it funny that it is the person with a monocle talking down to others.
CCP should not step in and do any price setting or adjusting. Sure, these prices may be the result of bot banning, and RMT asset removal. It is just a change. Those who are unable to adapt will suffer, those who can will prosper. That IS the nature of EvE, and the foundation of a good Sandbox game.
So because my internet spaceship avatar is wearing a monocle, my attempt to explain what is happening is considered looking down at people?
Geez hypocrite. |
Nateddog
Ghost Ravens Reborn Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 08:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
One of the things that makes EVE so unique is its dog eat dog world feel. Whether talking about free market forces, pvp mechanics or anything else. I think that the less CCP does the better, when it comes to the economic side of the game. I welcome the market shakeup and the fact that when the dust settles prices will probably be more reflective of actual market clearing prices. This can only make a market more efficient. To suggest that rising prices of goods will prevent a virtual world of players who all have the desire to blow up internet spaceships from doing so, is simply wrong. All of us will still be here wanting to blow stuff up, ships will still take the same amount of minerals to build, and rocks will still be floating in belts just waiting for the chance to become your next drake :) |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
129
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 08:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
Not sure why there are so many flames for such an easy answer.
Prices are going up because mineral prices are going up. Minerals are going up because:
-Mining bots are being banned 24/7, not in waves -Speculation due to drones lands giving bounties instead of alloys come Inferno -Speculation due to missions not dropping meta 0 loot come Inferno -Nocxium price ceiling removed, allowing it to go as high as it wants to go -People not building/mining in fear of Burn Jita and Hulkageddon operations -People holding onto minerals for the Inferno patch to see how high prices will go
In my really awful and most likely wrong opinion I don't think prices will increase that much more due to Inferno, maybe plus 20%-30% or even drop down a bit who knows. Some mineral prices are close to what they were pre-drone lands and a lot of mission refined minerals come from meta 1-3 mods so I feel like we've seen the worst of it. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
515
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 08:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
PvP happens.
Usually with pew pew ships, this time with pew pew markets.
For once it's the pew pew ships who have to harden up, reroll an indy character and go mine. Waiting for yer tears when you'll get popped though. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Ank Parkor
WildSpace Otters
16
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 08:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
So you thought that only pvpers can grief us? Ice interdiction? Hulk interdiction? Now it's ship interdiction. Have fun with pvp in your rookie ship
Traders/Indy/Miners unite!
... Let me dream.
Short time trader, short term missioner, long term ambitions. |
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Nohb Oddy
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 09:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
Comy 1 wrote:So because my internet spaceship avatar is wearing a monocle, my attempt to explain what is happening is considered looking down at people? Yes. Nohb Oddy likes you. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
565
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 11:16:00 -
[32] - Quote
Nohb Oddy wrote:Comy 1 wrote:So because my internet spaceship avatar is wearing a monocle, my attempt to explain what is happening is considered looking down at people? Yes.
I'm not wearing a monocle. Comy 1 is right. |
Itis Zhellin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 11:30:00 -
[33] - Quote
Vaal Erit wrote:... -People not building/mining in fear of Burn Jita and Hulkageddon operations ... Being new to the game, wanna ask why should I care about this? In fact, why should I care about Jita as long I can sell my stuff in Dodixie at the same price and rate. Dodixie is much closer to my base and have less gankers. Just trying to understand the basics.. |
Unholy Reindeer
Bladereach
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 12:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
Itis Zhellin wrote:Vaal Erit wrote:... -People not building/mining in fear of Burn Jita and Hulkageddon operations ... Being new to the game, wanna ask why should I care about this? In fact, why should I care about Jita as long I can sell my stuff in Dodixie at the same price and rate. Dodixie is much closer to my base and have less gankers. Just trying to understand the basics..
Because Jita is bigger :D It's much often regarded as the trading capital. Dodixie is the second largest. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
565
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 12:44:00 -
[35] - Quote
Unholy Reindeer wrote:It's much often regarded as the trading capital. Dodixie is the second largest.
Sure about that? Going to bet on Amarr. |
March rabbit
Aliastra Gallente Federation
151
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 12:50:00 -
[36] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote:Ottersmacker wrote:prices for products are high you say? damn, sounds like an excellent time to, you know, produce and sell the products. I'm a combat pilot, not an industrial pilot. I want to do combat, not mine and make ships. Isn't this supposed to be a "sandbox" as people like to call it?
isn't it the same what are saying so called "carebears": we don't want to pvp, isn't Eve a sandbox?
|
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
843
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 14:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote: Excluding T2 goods these prices are high even for 2007 (for one thing Trit was around 2.5/unit back then). Drake is at 53m now. I expect it'll top 60m by the end of the week.
Lets say a hulk is going to pull 1600m/3 minute (about what you would expect from a hulk that is near maxed out according to EFT). =50000000/60/( (1600/71.17) *1000)
If the miner is mining veld and wants to make 50m/hours that gives us a price for trit of around 37. For 20m/hour it gives us 14.82.
Unless CCP caps mineral prices, things are going to get interesting. It isn't just a matter of nerfing incursions. CCP would need to nerf level 4 missions blow the 20m / hour point to make mining worth it.
Conclusion: most miners were bots and CCP just opened up a can of consequences in banning them.
Your numbers are off by a factor of about 4 (or more).
Solo hulk in hi-sec, maxed out with T2 strips, T2 crystals and level V skills (no implants) will mine about 95k m3/hr, including dock/unload time. If Tritanium is selling for 6.67, that makes regular Veld worth 200 ISK/m3. Therefore 200 * 95k m3/hr = 19M ISK/hr.
As for the original poster, I present to you the EVE Mineral Price Index. As it goes up, so do T1 product prices.
http://www.evemarketeer.com/trade/mineralindex |
Itis Zhellin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 15:23:00 -
[38] - Quote
Unholy Reindeer wrote:Itis Zhellin wrote:Vaal Erit wrote:... -People not building/mining in fear of Burn Jita and Hulkageddon operations ... Being new to the game, wanna ask why should I care about this? In fact, why should I care about Jita as long I can sell my stuff in Dodixie at the same price and rate. Dodixie is much closer to my base and have less gankers. Just trying to understand the basics.. Because Jita is bigger :D It's much often regarded as the trading capital. Dodixie is the second largest. Bigger it's not always better (that's what she said) :D As a trader I tend haul my stuff where is less drama, so for me Dodixie is the best place to trade. Maybe in Jita I can sell stuff faster, but also I will live shorter.
Anyway, I'm happy to hear that Dodixie is not only a minor trading hub. So I will keep trading here and let Jita burn or whatever they wanna do with it. |
Barakach
R-ISK Shadow Operations.
36
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 15:54:00 -
[39] - Quote
Unholy Reindeer wrote:Itis Zhellin wrote:Vaal Erit wrote:... -People not building/mining in fear of Burn Jita and Hulkageddon operations ... Being new to the game, wanna ask why should I care about this? In fact, why should I care about Jita as long I can sell my stuff in Dodixie at the same price and rate. Dodixie is much closer to my base and have less gankers. Just trying to understand the basics.. Because Jita is bigger :D It's much often regarded as the trading capital. Dodixie is the second largest.
I do a lot of trade in minerals/ammo/ships, and I find Rens has tighter margins and better movement than Dodixie. I'm not sure about other parts of the market, but I find Rens a better hub but is less central. |
Radelix Cisko
The Adjustment Team
61
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 16:01:00 -
[40] - Quote
Nohb Oddy wrote:You're a PvP pilot who is having a hard time dealing with the market price changes?
Here's what you do: Pick up a hauler, and go out looting cans from people jet can mining.
Or, fit up a Destroyer and go out seeking mining ships with weak tanks and see if you can take them out before CONCORD gets you.
Or, Get into a BS and stick miners on it (Rohk works well I've heard) and join them until the market settles.
+1 on the Rokh Miner. I get bored waiting for corpies so I jetcan mine to pass time until pew pew happens. Nice little supplementary income but wont do it full time.
|
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Aina Sasaki
Red Core Paradigm Shift Alliance
3
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Posted - 2012.04.09 16:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
Unholy Reindeer wrote:Itis Zhellin wrote:Vaal Erit wrote:... -People not building/mining in fear of Burn Jita and Hulkageddon operations ... Being new to the game, wanna ask why should I care about this? In fact, why should I care about Jita as long I can sell my stuff in Dodixie at the same price and rate. Dodixie is much closer to my base and have less gankers. Just trying to understand the basics.. Because Jita is bigger :D It's much often regarded as the trading capital. Dodixie is the second largest.
Nah... I'm pretty sure Amarr is much bigger than Dodixie, and Rens may be as well. :o - Rei |
Brutus B
Carl Sagan's Planetary Development Foundation
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 16:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
A lot of people have said what is causing the prices to go up, and are dead on about it. It's a pefect storm of lots of things that are shooting up prices, but like all storms they come and go, but how long this one will last is completely uncertian because of one little truth: MINING SUCKS. IT REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY SUCKS. Same time I can spend in a hulk in highsec and mine a million or so isk of minerials is the same time it takes me to make 10 or 20 or 30 million isk in a mach or a phantasim. And that's why you don't really see miners in hisec belts anymore. Oh that and it's so easy to suicide gank them, (which I have done on several occassions myself, often enough to know mining is dangerous, and that a different fit than then the optimal mining configuration is required for longterm survival. So, right now the mining equation = high risk + low reward. Part of the low reward is that it is simply not fun to mine. IT's so not fun that now that there is a long war against bots doing the mining, that it will take more a lot more isk to bilk the miners into unloading their minerals into the market. Once it becomes profitable enough to endure the insane boredom of mining, than the markets will level out. If their ever becomes a significant oversupply of mins again in the future, than the market will crash, or at the very least slump. As always there will be some overspeculation that ends up costing somebody a small fortune. The peaks and valleys are never as high or low as the most greedy imagines them to be.
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Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
107
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 18:02:00 -
[43] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:Jas Dor wrote: Excluding T2 goods these prices are high even for 2007 (for one thing Trit was around 2.5/unit back then). Drake is at 53m now. I expect it'll top 60m by the end of the week.
Lets say a hulk is going to pull 1600m/3 minute (about what you would expect from a hulk that is near maxed out according to EFT). =50000000/60/( (1600/71.17) *1000)
If the miner is mining veld and wants to make 50m/hours that gives us a price for trit of around 37. For 20m/hour it gives us 14.82.
Unless CCP caps mineral prices, things are going to get interesting. It isn't just a matter of nerfing incursions. CCP would need to nerf level 4 missions blow the 20m / hour point to make mining worth it.
Conclusion: most miners were bots and CCP just opened up a can of consequences in banning them.
Your numbers are off by a factor of about 4 (or more). Solo hulk in hi-sec, maxed out with T2 strips, T2 crystals and level V skills (no implants) will mine about 95k m3/hr, including dock/unload time. If Tritanium is selling for 6.67, that makes regular Veld worth 200 ISK/m3. Therefore 200 * 95k m3/hr = 19M ISK/hr. As for the original poster, I present to you the EVE Mineral Price Index. As it goes up, so do T1 product prices. http://www.evemarketeer.com/trade/mineralindex
You are correct. I misread the ore chart found here http://eve.grismar.net/ore/ as giving 333 veld a m3 of 71.74. In actuality it has a m3 of .1 unit or 33.3. The proper spreadsheet formula is: =19000000/60/((1600/33.3)*1000)
This gives a cap price of around 17 for 50m/hour. |
Zahhadune
Virtual Warriors IMPERIAL LEGI0N
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 18:52:00 -
[44] - Quote
Brutus B wrote:A lot of people have said what is causing the prices to go up, and are dead on about it. It's a pefect storm of lots of things that are shooting up prices, but like all storms they come and go, but how long this one will last is completely uncertian because of one little truth: MINING SUCKS. IT REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY SUCKS. Same time I can spend in a hulk in highsec and mine a million or so isk of minerials is the same time it takes me to make 10 or 20 or 30 million isk in a mach or a phantasim. And that's why you don't really see miners in hisec belts anymore. Oh that and it's so easy to suicide gank them, (which I have done on several occassions myself, often enough to know mining is dangerous, and that a different fit than then the optimal mining configuration is required for longterm survival. So, right now the mining equation = high risk + low reward. Part of the low reward is that it is simply not fun to mine. IT's so not fun that now that there is a long war against bots doing the mining, that it will take more a lot more isk to bilk the miners into unloading their minerals into the market. Once it becomes profitable enough to endure the insane boredom of mining, than the markets will level out. If their ever becomes a significant oversupply of mins again in the future, than the market will crash, or at the very least slump. As always there will be some overspeculation that ends up costing somebody a small fortune. The peaks and valleys are never as high or low as the most greedy imagines them to be.
Visit just about any system before downtime and you will find just dust left in the belts... They all get cleaned out. |
Javajunky
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 19:02:00 -
[45] - Quote
Mining doesn't suck, it's just out of balance but more importantly - it's working as intended.
I have been a miner for a couple of years and I've always enjoyed it. The mechanics are not broken you just need to take in context.
....It's great to do if you're hanging out, shooting the breeze on comms with friends.
....It's great to do if you're standing around with you main pilot in a fleet stuck somehwere grinding sov against a no show enemy.
....it's great to do if you want something low key no stress and maybe grab a movie
What's funny people find it boring and others find it relaxing.. personally I find grinding havens, sanctums or LVL 4's tedious as hell. So to each his own. |
marie claude
arcane machine shop
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 19:29:00 -
[46] - Quote
good lord none of you get it. if you complain that incursion fleets make too much isk (by the way there is no such thing as making too much isk) you should shut up and form a fleet and make some isk. when you try this and realize that it takes lots of skill and capital to do incs you will see why incs should pay better. for gods sake well trained and well fitted pilots should be able to make money like its free. thats what a real economy is about. the prices are going up simply because ccp let it be known drones wont poop soon and the bot miners are all gone. tbh the bot miners were a boon to the economy i miss them already. and you do too even if you dont admit it. elite pilots deserve elite income. ppl who coast along and mine and whine they dont make isk need to hush o train better skills. donr spend another mans money go get your own. in the end only ccp can destroy eve....sometimes it looks like that has been the goal all along.
edit: and rally mining is like havein a target on your head new hi sec mining pilots need a safe place to mine (oh yes there will be tears about carebearing ect pi$$ off all mmo need a place to grind shooting unarmed ships for fun makes you a punk nothing more)
in space only CCP can hear you scream. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
516
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 19:47:00 -
[47] - Quote
@Above. Obvious trolling?
- defends incursions
- thinks anyone here is against prices rising (we are all making mad money on it thank you)
- tells bots are a good thing.
Expecially the bots, they are BAD, they should all burn in digital hell. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Mookie Quantico
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 19:48:00 -
[48] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote:Why have the market prices for ships gone up by such an extreme amount in the past month? Ships are becoming unaffordable for combat pilots who do missions to make isk. ... deletia....
Honey, you ain't seen *nothing* yet ...
Mook
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Ticarus Hellbrandt
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 20:06:00 -
[49] - Quote
Prices on items have been cheap for a long time and now they have sharply caught up. not to mention the various conflicts around eve and the rise in mineral prices have all contributed.
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Nub Sauce
State War Academy Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 20:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
There are two sides to prices going up. One is the speculation, bot bans, ect... The other side is that prices will only go as high as the ISK faucets allow. If loads of people are making fat ISK from incursions and missions then prices go up. Especially if the ISK is good enough to draw miners away from mining and over to an ISK faucet.
If the faucets don't get nerfed then the only solution is inflation. Prices of minerals will inflate until it is deemed 'worth it' to mine by enough people. We'll then have a balanced economy. It's been heavily unbalanced due to bots for years. The game isn't breaking, it's recovering. The mining profession is becoming viable again; as a human rather than a bot army. This is intended. |
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ComradeEngineer
Australian Ratting and Mining Division The Cool Kids Club
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 20:49:00 -
[51] - Quote
Prices could be increasing based on an anticipation that prices will rise in the future due to market externalities ie. goonswarm is going to attempt to burn jita, hulkageddon, drone loot being nerfed. In such circumstances that these market externalities become manifest, and increase in prices ensures that there is not shortages in the market for various commodities. An increase in prices is going to provide incentive to people to produce in order to take advantage of the greater returns.
General price level increases can be caused by an expansion of the monetary (isk) supply. I encourage people to watch the following clip where Milton Friedman is talking about inflation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgSqZKx0mNI&list=UU51_awyLXl2nxCduuzzmw4w&index=2&feature=plcp |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
39
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 01:01:00 -
[52] - Quote
Who played eve when a battleship was something to behold and not a common every grid site. Well here comes those days. |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 01:23:00 -
[53] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Who played eve when a battleship was something to behold and not a common every grid site. Well here comes those days. The same was true for pirate battleships. Now they are common as well. I saw a vindicator at a gate and say oh nice, a vindicator. Then I saw another one the next jump. Then another. |
Korsiri
Mousetrap Building Inc.
27
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 01:27:00 -
[54] - Quote
Thing is people have to get in this game, is that your traditional pew pew isn't the only style of PVP. |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 01:30:00 -
[55] - Quote
Years back years, I went over to a friends house, 2005-2006 and I remember watching him play this eve online.
I told him how much his game sucked and why he should play the one im playing, and vice versa.
Somewhere along the lines as I watched some ship seemingly warp off some where, he was explaining that he wanted some minerals and he was warping to where there are less people destroying the belts.
then he finished mining docked up and showed me some crazy stockpile of different minerals and items a few BPC's and what he seemed to really fancy was a BPC of some Caldari ship, which he said he bought really cheep and couldn't wait to finally gather enough minerals to build.
I asked him , how long have you bin mining to get enough minerals, He said 2 and a half weeks.
The point is, that's how it should be, people should anticipate such events as BIG, Building your first Battleship, getting into your first cruiser, people have lost sight of small joys of eve.
Never the less, when the prices EVEN out, the mining profession stands a very good chance of actually becoming a profession, even thought 97% of people simply hate mining, the other 3-6% just cant wait to get rich doing what they love!.
as mineral prices go up, people will be more careful with their ships, they will think 3 times before gonking some newbie, or declaring war on some infantile new corporation, these changes are welcome.
The prices thought, are indeed growing a bit to fast for most people to adapt to, and mission rewards appear to have bin left in the dust, interesting how this is going to play out, I have a feeling CCP has some kind of a big plan in the making.
As for the people who are complaining, well, perhaps now is an excellent time to get a foot in the manufacturing buisness you always had in the back of your mind. |
Bremmenn
Shrike Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 02:13:00 -
[56] - Quote
Scrapyard is dead on- and others.
These are some numbers from ohh, late 2007 to early 2008.
Trit 2.4 Pye 9.25 Mex 21.10 Iso 103 Nox 400 Zyd 2000 Meg 3800
Abaddon build cost then 153,900,000 Rokh 143,700,000 Hyperion 153,000,000
Build cost today at Jita prices Abaddon 243,000,000 Rokh 219,000,000 Hyperion 238,000,000
Depending on the current hour of manipulation of course lol,
be well |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
848
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 03:28:00 -
[57] - Quote
And, from what I recall - shuttles were still sold by NPCs back in '07, which capped Tritanium price at around 2.2 ISK or so (shuttles sold for 6500 ISK? reprocessed into 3000 trit?). Maybe the cap was 2.5 ISK/u (7500 ISK shuttles).
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Beckie DeLey
Brigade of Guards SpaceMonkey's Alliance
39
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 05:00:00 -
[58] - Quote
Ships are still too cheap. Losses need to hurt even more than now.
Makes for a more interesting game.
I keep hearing about "old times" when losing a battleship or even a cruiser was a big deal that couldn't be offset by running two missions. Sounds awesome. It's The Legendary Extraordinary Me |
Kreeia Dgore
EntroPrelatial Industria EntroPraetorian Aegis
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 06:46:00 -
[59] - Quote
I don't have an accurate idea about the ideal price of ships as most of you do, the only idea i have is that ships shouldn't be so cheap one could simply break dozens of them with no real pain felt. Current state seems too close for me to that, so i am up for things getting more expensive. Also, right now a serious percentage of reasonably populated high sec belts are stripped in 10 hours after the servers are up. Most systems are out of ore long before the restart, so no mineral income boost is going to happen simply because the ammount of ore is not infinite. The more distant highsec systems, on the other hand, are quite rich with asteroids, but noone mines them because of hauling issues and because you will be far too simple target for gankers. So, unless more asteroids are added into highsec or exhumers will be made more endurant so that ship with one fifth of their price can't kill them, there is no more ore comming from safe space. I don't know about lowsec or nullsec, i won't express myself about those. |
Raven Ether
Republic University Minmatar Republic
143
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 08:11:00 -
[60] - Quote
Kreeia Dgore wrote:I don't have an accurate idea about the ideal price of ships as most of you do, the only idea i have is that ships shouldn't be so cheap one could simply break dozens of them with no real pain felt. Current state seems too close for me to that, so i am up for things getting more expensive. Also, right now a serious percentage of reasonably populated high sec belts are stripped in 10 hours after the servers are up. Most systems are out of ore long before the restart, so no mineral income boost is going to happen simply because the ammount of ore is not infinite. The more distant highsec systems, on the other hand, are quite rich with asteroids, but noone mines them because of hauling issues and because you will be far too simple target for gankers. So, unless more asteroids are added into highsec or exhumers will be made more endurant so that ship with one fifth of their price can't kill them, there is no more ore comming from safe space. I don't know about lowsec or nullsec, i won't express myself about those.
Not to be evil, but that is a ******** perspective. |
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