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doctorstupid2
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.11.27 17:43:00 -
[1]
Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 27/11/2008 18:03:04
Isn't it about time commandships got the hitpoint bonus they were shafted on in Revelations?
To refresh everyone's memory, in Revelations all T1 ships saw a 50% hitpoint boost, destroyers got 100%; T2 ships got approximately 25% more HP. The result is that commandships actually have fewer static hitpoints than their T1 counterparts, both fleet and field versions. This has been largely ignored by most (much like drones never getting a HP boost),
Commandhsips have about 2-5% less HP on structure, armor and shield. I'm not saying we need a 25% boost, however bringing their static HP inline with HACs (compared to their T1 counterparts) would be nice: about 10% (HACs vary from 8 to about 24%)
SUMMARY:
Commandships have less HP than the T1 version
Commandships need 10% more HP
And just for fun since I'm here, drones were given no HP boost either, even with current T2 prices having your drones shot down can be a rather significant isk-sink, and they border on ineffective under sentries when solo or even with a small gang. Personally I've been of the opinion that that current hitpoints would be acceptable if they were given T2 racial resistances (lesser than the standard 75/50% bonuses, maybe more like 50%/33%). Failing that, at least 25% hitpoints would be well-deserved.
EDIT: I was browsing an archived version of eve-o from early 06 and made corrections to my orignally claimed HP figures from pre-rev.
Abusive | Deadspace | Deadspace2 |
TheNewEclipse
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Posted - 2008.11.27 17:58:00 -
[2]
being a commandship pilot myself and some one who uses drones quiet often i agree with doctorstupid2 completely
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wert668
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Posted - 2008.11.27 18:01:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: doctorstupid2
Isn't it about time commandships got the hitpoint bonus they were denied in Revelations?
To refresh everyone's memory, in Revelations all T1 ships saw a 50% hitpoint boost, destroyers got 100%; T2 ships got approximately 25% more HP except for commandships. This has been largely ignored by most (much like drones never getting a HP boost), but the result is that commandships actually have fewer static hitpoints than their T1 counterparts, both fleet and field versions.
Commandhsips have about 2-5% less HP on structure, armor and shield. I'm not saying we need a 25% boost, however bringing their static HP inline with HACs (compared to their T1 counterparts) would be nice: about 10% (HACs vary from 8 to about 24%)
SUMMARY:
Commandships have less HP than the T1 version
Commandships need 10% more HP
And just for fun since I'm here, drones were given no HP boost either, even with current T2 prices having your drones shot down can be a rather significant isk-sink, and they border on ineffective under sentries when solo or even with a small gang. Personally I've been of the opinion that that current hitpoints would be acceptable if they were given T2 racial resistances (lesser than the standard 75/50% bonuses, maybe more like 50%/33%). Failing that, at least 25% hitpoints would be well-deserved.
/signed
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.11.27 20:16:00 -
[4]
OMG, someone making sense! They must be stopped!
Anyway, /signed.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Onys Cissalc
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Posted - 2008.11.28 03:58:00 -
[5]
I'm reasonably sure most of this is wrong...
http://www.eve-online.com/features/redmoonrising/detail.asp#tech2ships
The changes to HP were done with Red Moon Rising, not Revelations. This was done at the same time that Command Ships were introduced, to begin with. Their concept was, and still is, to forgo certain aspects of the ship in order to gain other aspects. This is in part due to the fact that they are able to achieve speeds similar to cruisers with microwarpdrives, have a signature radius smaller than a battleship but have a destructive power against cruiser sized targets that battleships in general don't.
They are not designed and were not designed to be iWin buttons or godmobiles, they were designed as gang support platforms.
They are to cruisers what destroyers are to frigates, only with extra bonuses, in comparison.
Nothing wrong with command ships.
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WillageGirl
Advanced Tactics and Maneuvers
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Posted - 2008.11.28 05:35:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Onys Cissalc
They are to cruisers what destroyers are to frigates, only with extra bonuses, in comparison.
...That being big juicy targets with no survivability at all? (since that's what destroyers are)
As it is, Astarte for example has trouble geting in firing distance of a BS while staying alive and is too slow to lock down cruisers. So what is it supposed to do exactly?
Anyways, /Signed on op.s idea |
Kittamaru
Gallente
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
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Posted - 2008.11.28 05:36:00 -
[7]
What they should do, then, is reduce their possible damage output and greatly enhance their tank (like, 5x). Right now, any field command ship silly enough to come on the field of battle is quickly primaried and has thousands of DPS vollied against it. |
Odessima
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.11.28 05:48:00 -
[8]
Everyone I know that have command ships have never complained about their tank, maybe your doing it wrong.
/not signed |
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.11.28 07:03:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 28/11/2008 07:06:36
Give them a 20% bonus to either shield or armor HP.
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"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Hercules Soban
Captain Soban Fleet
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Posted - 2008.11.28 09:29:00 -
[10]
doctor you are totally right!!!Command-ships are weaken as far as the hp are concerned! plus they are much more expensive and need more training to get them. Those ships should be much more stronger.you are totally riight!
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Typhado3
Minmatar
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.28 09:38:00 -
[11]
/signed
don't think this will solve the problems of command ships hugging poses rather than being on the field but it makes sense.
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls |
Andreya
Direct Intent
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Posted - 2008.11.28 10:53:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hercules Soban
doctor you are totally right!!!Command-ships are weaken as far as the hp are concerned! plus they are much more expensive and need more training to get them. Those ships should be much more stronger.you are totally riight!
recons are hard to train for too.. should they be much more stronger too? no. they have a specific role in eve. support
coomands ships are the exect same.. but are even more helpful in large scale circumstances. doesnt mean they should have more health.
hell. to me it would even made sense if they stripped off most the guns. hurting things isnt its job.
... but anyways. in all honesty, they should o what the guy above me said. remove the offense. and massively improved their defense
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Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected]) |
Cairn Metalhand
Swedish Aerospace Inc
G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.11.28 10:56:00 -
[13]
I think commandships are fine as is, not really any need to make them more of a pwnmobile then they are.
oh and btw, i collect badgers... |
Onys Cissalc
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Posted - 2008.11.28 16:04:00 -
[14]
Actually, a Claymore with a rack of arts and a hell of a tank (no tackle OMG) is REALLY useful at picking off not only cruisers, but even frigs.
Again, command ships were not and are not designed to be solo godmobiles, they are designed to be support ships and as such support the fleet they are in.
A command ship set up with only long ranged weaponry, support modules and a tank, is in general pretty damned strong and tends to have offensive capabilities against cruiser sized targets that battleships don't have.
You cry about command ships not being able to catch and lock down smaller targets - what about battlecruisers? What about battleships? Nobody ever thinks of the poor battleships/battlecruisers. We should get a massive speed boost to all three these ship classes so that they can catch mwd'ing cruisers and frigates!
It's just not right that people aren't able to pwn everything in sight solo!!! Not right I tell you!
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2008.11.28 17:23:00 -
[15]
Edited by: The Djego on 28/11/2008 17:24:42
Originally by: Cairn Metalhand
I think commandships are fine as is, not really any need to make them more of a pwnmobile then they are.
We are talking about some HP here. Actualy I still laugh about the pawn Mobile, it is this funny, realy. I bet even that guy in his Astarte that I ganked while he had RR of a Archon next to him would laught about it. 
But I would agree to revisit the NH passive Recharge if it happens, this things take a bit longer.
If anything Field commands need a helping hand, still question myself why people spend this much on them, seriously they are shiny smaller and more expensive BS in reality that lack Gank and Tank compared to real BS.
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Rosalina Sarinna
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.11.28 18:46:00 -
[16]
I've never bothered looking at a Command Ship's stats due to the high SP cost (I'm an Industry/Trader char). However, assuming the info here is accurate (and I'm sure it is), I see little reason for Command ships to be less HP than their T1 counterparts. Without a doubt:
/signed
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doctorstupid2
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.11.28 18:50:00 -
[17]
Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 28/11/2008 18:50:16
Originally by: Onys Cissalc
I'm reasonably sure most of this is wrong...
http://www.eve-online.com/features/redmoonrising/detail.asp#tech2ships
The changes to HP were done with Red Moon Rising, not Revelations. This was done at the same time that Command Ships were introduced, to begin with. Their concept was, and still is, to forgo certain aspects of the ship in order to gain other aspects. This is in part due to the fact that they are able to achieve speeds similar to cruisers with microwarpdrives, have a signature radius smaller than a battleship but have a destructive power against cruiser sized targets that battleships in general don't.
They are not designed and were not designed to be iWin buttons or godmobiles, they were designed as gang support platforms.
They are to cruisers what destroyers are to frigates, only with extra bonuses, in comparison.
Nothing wrong with command ships.
Incorrect, while RMR did have hitpoint changes, commandships were introduced at the same time with 20% more hitpoints than the T1 version. In Rev1 we saw the tier 2 BCs, tier 3 BSs, warp to 0km, T2 ammo nerf, rigs, grossly over-powered inertia stabilizers and propellant injection vents, and of course hitpoint changes ranging from ~25% (T2 ships) to 100% (capitals and destroyers) and subsequent changes to the volume of cap boosters and ammunition. Speaking of cap boosters, ammo was halved in volume while cap boosters were reduced only 20%. Fail.
Anyway I digress, have a look for yourself. As we can see here, Revelations was deployed Nov 2006, Linkage
Pre-Revelations 1: Ferox Vulture
Today: Ferox Vulture Drake
Tier 1 BCs have 2% more hitpoints than their T2 counterparts, and tier 2 BCs have on the order of 14% more than even the fleet commands which focus more on defense and assist than killing power.
At no point did I ask for an I-Win button nor a solo-pwnmobile. I asked for 10% more hitpoints. I think it's only logical to increase shield recharge time by the same to keep passive regen unchanged.
As for the gang-support platform claim, that's true of fleet commands, though reading the description of any Field Command contradicts this:
"Command ships are engineered specifically to wreak havoc on a battlefield of many. Sporting advanced command module interfaces, these vessels are more than capable of turning the tide in large engagements. Field command ships are geared more towards out-and-out combat than their fleet command counterparts, though both ships can hold their own in battle."
10% hitpoints is not asking for much, it still doesn't put their HP above tier2 BCs, it only makes the ships a little more survivable which given their role seems perfectly appropriate.
Abusive | Deadspace | Deadspace2 |
Onys Cissalc
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Posted - 2008.11.29 09:54:00 -
[18]
As it is, if you put a single HP expander and only resist modifiers onto any given command ship, and use logistics to repair it occasionally, they are extremely powerful.
To the person that said command ships don't get used in PVP, you have no idea how wrong you are...
Honestly I couldn't care whichever way it goes, as 10% isn't a significant increase, if only to get their HP above their Tech1 counterparts. My argument is still that nothing is wrong with them as they are at the moment, in terms of how well they are able to fill their roles.
With some of the thoughts I'm sure are going through the minds of some of the people that have posted on this thread, or that have WANTED to post, I'm sure they're busy thinking along the lines of "damn CCP for nerfing nanos, making it impossible for us to engage in PVP and hope to survive" etc etc.
1.4km/s and up-to twice the DPS and at least four times the tanking capacity of a single cruiser. That is what you are getting out of the average command ship. Now imagine you're putting cruiser guns with double the dps from said command ship against T1 cruisers... That is why I said command ships are to cruisers what destroyers are to frigates.
(except that destroyers have felt broken since their inception - I have yet to see ANYONE argue that that's not true)
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doctorstupid2
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.11.29 15:28:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Onys Cissalc
As it is, if you put a single HP expander and only resist modifiers onto any given command ship, and use logistics to repair it occasionally, they are extremely powerful.
lol? Not everyone follows themselves around with a logistics.
Abusive | Deadspace | Deadspace2 |
Onys Cissalc
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Posted - 2008.11.29 20:03:00 -
[20]
Not everyone thinks EVE's actual name is Alt-PVP-Online.
Well organised fleets usually field at least two logistics for when their members get cap neuted.
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doctorstupid2
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.11.29 21:15:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Onys Cissalc
Not everyone thinks EVE's actual name is Alt-PVP-Online.
Well organised fleets usually field at least two logistics for when their members get cap neuted.
So just to be clear, commandships SHOULD have less hitpoints than their counterparts because... blobs are teh funz0r?
Abusive | Deadspace | Deadspace2 |
doctorstupid2
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.12.02 02:40:00 -
[22]
Please?
Abusive | Deadspace | Deadspace2 |
Crossbowman
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Posted - 2008.12.04 09:02:00 -
[23]
/signed
Fleet CS have lower hp and lower dps then a BC. And it's hard to survive with, and hard to keep up with roaming gangs.
The 10% boost wont change the CS using stiles but will make sense.
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