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vostok Minmatar Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.01 10:28:00 - [1] Bored so... Real battleship Eve battleship Yea, BS class guns look like they're meant for picking off frigates and drones tbh, I would like a graphical change. And yes I realise what a large task that would be but it would certainly make BS a lot more awesome. - Adaptation is not* an excuse for lack of ballance!* -
Xori Ruscuv	Posted - 2008.12.01 10:30:00 - [2] /signed. Always thought frig guns on a frig looked more badass than bs guns on a bs.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.12.01 10:33:00 - [3] Do we need to find the EVE BS vs. Real BS ship size comparison to show how the guns atually look fitting I mean... isn't a cruiser the size of the Eiffel tower? ------------ Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
vostok Minmatar Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.01 10:48:00 - [4] Originally by: techzer0 Do we need to find the EVE BS vs. Real BS ship size comparison to show how the guns atually look fitting I mean... isn't a cruiser the size of the Eiffel tower? Right Eiffel tower is 324m tall and the Bismarck class BB was 251m long so I would call that comparable. Bismarck Vexor The point is the ships are capable of fitting much larger guns than they do. The main guns on the Bismarck were 400mm, but the minmatar med guns go up to 720mm, they should be frikkin huge. - Adaptation is not* an excuse for lack of ballance!* -
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.12.01 10:52:00 - [5] Originally by: vostok Originally by: techzer0 Do we need to find the EVE BS vs. Real BS ship size comparison to show how the guns atually look fitting I mean... isn't a cruiser the size of the Eiffel tower? Right Eiffel tower is 324m tall and the Bismarck class BB was 251m long so I would call that comparable. Bismarck Vexor The point is the ships are capable of fitting much larger guns than they do. The main guns on the Bismarck were 400mm, but the minmatar med guns go up to 720mm, they should be frikkin huge. Projectile weapons like auto cannons and arties fre very slow moving projectiles relativly speaking (sub speed of sound) but in eve they hit instantly even at 249km away.......... I think its cos even is a game and not real tbh....but that is just a theory........
Terraform Gallente Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.12.01 10:52:00 - [6] agreed, the only ships i find the guns have a good size on is frigates. even destroyers look ridiculous.
Planktal Gallente Kenshao Industries The Star League	Posted - 2008.12.01 11:02:00 - [7] Before i started playing EVE, I had an image in my mind of what battleship guns looked like compared to the ship and it's about what modern guns look like on a modern battleship, proportionally speaking of course. I just feel that cruiser and especially battleship guns just look too small on the ships. capital guns on a dread look more like the proportions I was thinking. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Warscythe Prime Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.01 11:08:00 - [8] Gun turrets like this Linkage 01 IMO and like this Linkage 02 But yeah Guns have always bothered me about EVE. a War ship should look Bad Ass Lets hope that the next graphical update gives the weaponry some lovin'
vostok Minmatar Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.01 11:10:00 - [9] Originally by: maralt Projectile weapons like auto cannons and arties fre very slow moving projectiles relativly speaking (sub speed of sound) but in eve they hit instantly even at 249km away.......... I think its cos even is a game and not real tbh....but that is just a theory........ The bismarck's main guns shot at 840m/s and that's in atmosphere, though it is true, is a weapon like that was to shoot a weapon at a ship 250km away its going to take 4 minutes to get there, and with the agility achieved in eve, it would be impossible to make contact. Lasers obvious would always be instant, and in theory a railgun could reach those kinds of velocity. But yea that's just a game simplification, lol I just want to see big guns on my battleship, something in line with XL guns on a dread.
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.12.01 11:25:00 - [10] Edited by: maralt on 01/12/2008 11:31:00 Originally by: vostok Originally by: maralt Projectile weapons like auto cannons and arties fre very slow moving projectiles relativly speaking (sub speed of sound) but in eve they hit instantly even at 249km away.......... I think its cos even is a game and not real tbh....but that is just a theory........ The bismarck's main guns shot at 840m/s and that's in atmosphere, though it is true, is a weapon like that was to shoot a weapon at a ship 250km away its going to take 4 minutes to get there, and with the agility achieved in eve, it would be impossible to make contact. Lasers obvious would always be instant, and in theory a railgun could reach those kinds of velocity. But yea that's just a game simplification, lol I just want to see big guns on my battleship, something in line with XL guns on a dread. I dunno if it still works but you could at one time fit dread guns on a frig at a pos array, you obviously could not online them but it looked as funky as heck as the guns totally swamped the frig. PS: lasers travel fast through normal space at light speed but light can be slowed quite considerably depending what its traveling through. The slowest recorded "speed of light" is recorded as 38 mph it was achieved by firing a laser through sodium frozen to almost absolute zero.
ThoughtWrong Red White and Screwed	Posted - 2008.12.01 11:31:00 - [11] In a RP perspective there is no friction in space so theoretically a projectile shell could "instantly" hit a target 249km away. Also in space the only brakes would be reverse thrusters, since they aren't "visible" on ships cutting the engine wouldn't stop a BS in about 10 seconds ;p
Kazuma Saruwatari Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.01 11:33:00 - [12] a potential update to BS turrets so that they'll fit the size of the ship as well as frigate guns on a frigate?! FRACKKIN' /SIGNED -
Walker Bulldog VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2008.12.01 11:37:00 - [13] I believe CCP stated that a Rifter is about as big as a real-life 747. Looking at this chart, Rifter is something like 7-8 pixels long, which makes one pixel equivalent to ten meters (747 is about 75 meters long). Apocalypse, on the same chart, is approximately 190 pixels long - that makes it almost two kilometers long, making it about seven times longer than the Iowa-class BB that you posted. Going by the same scale, the 1200/1400mm caliber guns that a Tempest fits seem to be about 50 meters long - plenty good enough for the caliber. It's not that the guns are small, it's the ships that are ridiculously huge.
vostok Minmatar Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.01 11:53:00 - [14] Originally by: ThoughtWrong In a RP perspective there is no friction in space so theoretically a projectile shell could "instantly" hit a target 249km away. Also in space the only brakes would be reverse thrusters, since they aren't "visible" on ships cutting the engine wouldn't stop a BS in about 10 seconds ;p Because projectile weapons are based on explosions the theoretical maximum achievable speed is limited due to the explosion velocity and the required thickness of the chamber walls as well as recoil. Railguns however have none of these problems, with a theoretical max speed of the speed of light. So it is much easier to achieve higher velocities with them. With current theory the US navy have expected 5.8km/s projectile velocities accurate enough to hit a 5m target from 370km away at 10 shots per minute! The disadvantage of railguns being that they generate massive amounts of heat, which, in a vacuum is fairly hard to get rid of. And lasers have the issue of being useless if you put up a smokescreen, which can adsorb the wavelength. About the ''brakes''... Well you don't need to stop, you only need to change your trajectory slightly for a shell to miss you and moving several hundred m/s with the projectile taking up to 4 minutes to reach you just isn't going to be that much of an issue. Not that any of this matters because eve is a game and all I want is a graphical change : / - Adaptation is not* an excuse for lack of ballance!* -
vostok Minmatar Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.01 12:07:00 - [15] Edited by: vostok on 01/12/2008 12:08:15 Originally by: Walker Bulldog I believe CCP stated that a Rifter is about as big as a real-life 747. Looking at this chart, Rifter is something like 7-8 pixels long, which makes one pixel equivalent to ten meters (747 is about 75 meters long). Apocalypse, on the same chart, is approximately 190 pixels long - that makes it almost two kilometers long, making it about seven times longer than the Iowa-class BB that you posted. Going by the same scale, the 1200/1400mm caliber guns that a Tempest fits seem to be about 50 meters long - plenty good enough for the caliber. It's not that the guns are small, it's the ships that are ridiculously huge. To quote myself: Originally by: vostok The point is the ships are capable of fitting much larger guns than they do. Considering that an 800mm gun already exists, a ship around 1.5km long (I measures with Eiffel towers) should be fitting much bigger guns imo. Edit: Mistake - Adaptation is not* an excuse for lack of ballance!* -
Walker Bulldog VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2008.12.01 12:19:00 - [16] Originally by: vostok Considering that an 800mm gun already exists, a ship around 1.5km long (I measures with Eiffel towers) should be fitting much bigger guns imo. They need to fit a lot more stuff than the guns though - normal-, warp- and jump-drive systems, life support, shield emitters, etc, etc. If you want to fit guns larger than 1200/1400mm - pick up 2500/3500mm guns and stick them on a dreadnought; Naglfar is what - seven kilometers tall, give or take? :)
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Shadow Company Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.12.01 12:21:00 - [17] Edited by: Nomakai Delateriel on 01/12/2008 12:23:08 Originally by: vostok Considering that an 800mm gun already exists, a ship around 1.5km long (I measures with Eiffel towers) should be fitting much bigger guns imo. I dare you to find an 800mm artillery piece today that is not only capable of firing over 10 rounds per minutes, but 10 salvos (it's an autocannon salvo after all) per minute. Besides, unlike regular battleship artillery the artillery used by minmatar battleships has to have full tracking capability in 3 dimensions. That puts extra limits on the gunmount. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.
Ruciza Minmatar The Feminists	Posted - 2008.12.01 12:51:00 - [18] Edited by: Ruciza on 01/12/2008 12:55:54 Artillery projectiles = low speed = low accuracy = low optimal.
vostok Minmatar Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.01 13:05:00 - [19] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Edited by: Nomakai Delateriel on 01/12/2008 12:23:08 Originally by: vostok Considering that an 800mm gun already exists, a ship around 1.5km long (I measures with Eiffel towers) should be fitting much bigger guns imo. I dare you to find an 800mm artillery piece today that is not only capable of firing over 10 rounds per minutes, but 10 salvos (it's an autocannon salvo after all) per minute. Besides, unlike regular battleship artillery the artillery used by minmatar battleships has to have full tracking capability in 3 dimensions. That puts extra limits on the gunmount. Well firstly an EVE Battleship is about 6 times bigger than the largest battleship earth has seen: Here's a size comparison of the apoc against the Mushashi, a Yamato class battleship. Sorry about the low quality, it's due to the low resolution of the size comparison picture but I think it gets the point across that the guns are only about twice as big while the ship is well over 6 times as long and much wider and deeper. The fact is the apoc is 10's of times bigger than that battleship, which used 460mm turrets and if an apoc were to fit 1400mm guns, for comparative purposes they would be at most 4 times larger, which makes sense in terms of the guns, but are you seriously saying that that ship couldn't fit turrets much much larger? - Adaptation is not* an excuse for lack of ballance!* -
The Tzar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2008.12.01 13:10:00 - [20] Originally by: maralt Projectile weapons like auto cannons and arties fire very slow moving projectiles relatively speaking (sub speed of sound) but in eve they hit instantly even at 249km away.......... I think its cos even is a game and not real tbh....but that is just a theory........ Interesting point. How to model projectile weapons in a 3D environment. Usually one of the benefits of projectiles irl is that they have an arcing flight path... Maybe they hit instantly as the shortest distance between two points in space is actually a curve? __________________________________________ 'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________
DubanFP Caldari R.U.S.T.	Posted - 2008.12.01 13:26:00 - [21] Edited by: DubanFP on 01/12/2008 13:27:03 In EVE the power of weaponry is based on the energy they consume, NOT their physical size. Why make a larger turret if you can have a smaller, better, turret that does just as much damage but because the round is smaller the same amount of energy can make for a higher velocity "improved accuracy". It's not about the size of your guns, it's about the size of your bang. Looks are highly overrated. _______________ Newbie> Eve is a GRIEFING game. rofflesausage> You mean you didn't check the rules for the game, spent money on it, lost your stuff and it's not your fault?
vostok Minmatar Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.01 13:30:00 - [22] Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 01/12/2008 13:27:03 In EVE the power of weaponry is based on the energy they consume, NOT their physical size. Why make a larger turret if you can have a smaller, better, turret that does just as much damage but because the round is smaller the same amount of energy can make for a higher velocity "improved accuracy". It's not about the size of your guns, it's about the size of your bang. Looks are highly overrated. Because the longer a railgun is the higher the theoretical speeds it can reach? For one example. - Adaptation is not* an excuse for lack of ballance!* -
Mishallia Venari Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.01 13:31:00 - [23] I dont care about size, proportion, physics, curved flight paths or Eifal Towers. i want the side of my strom to disappear in a fire ball like THIS every time i fire! Mish Got Sig?
vostok Minmatar Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.01 13:35:00 - [24] Originally by: Mishallia Venari I dont care about size, proportion, physics, curved flight paths or Eifal Towers. i want the side of my strom to disappear in a fire ball like THIS every time i fire! Mish Exactly :D - Adaptation is not* an excuse for lack of ballance!* -
DubanFP Caldari R.U.S.T.	Posted - 2008.12.01 13:37:00 - [25] Edited by: DubanFP on 01/12/2008 13:38:05 Originally by: vostok Because the longer a railgun is the higher the theoretical speeds it can reach? For one example. And to get that increased speed would require a proportional increase in power usage to accomplish, would it not? Why extend that barrel when you could impart the same amount of energy in a shorter time? You'd just wind up with a large ungainly weapon that tracks more slowly while doing no more damage. Again it all comes back to the energy imparted on the round rather then the physical size of the shell. _______________ Newbie> Eve is a GRIEFING game. rofflesausage> You mean you didn't check the rules for the game, spent money on it, lost your stuff and it's not your fault?
InsanlyEvlPerson Gallente Night-Stalkers	Posted - 2008.12.01 13:56:00 - [26] If you stop and think about it, you dont need big guns to kill a spaceship, all you have to do is breech enough decks of the ship and the crew dies =P --------------------------------------------- I may be a bit over Zealot, but i cant help myself, its the best investment i ever made!
Ruciza Minmatar The Feminists	Posted - 2008.12.01 13:58:00 - [27] Edited by: Ruciza on 01/12/2008 13:59:07 Originally by: DubanFP Why extend that barrel when you could impart the same amount of energy in a shorter time? Because your materials have physical limits. So either find a new material/way to use the old (aka better technology) or add coils.
vostok Minmatar Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.01 14:06:00 - [28] Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 01/12/2008 13:38:05 Originally by: vostok Because the longer a railgun is the higher the theoretical speeds it can reach? For one example. And to get that increased speed would require a proportional increase in power usage to accomplish, would it not? Why extend that barrel when you could impart the same amount of energy in a shorter time? You'd just wind up with a large ungainly weapon that tracks more slowly while doing no more damage. Again it all comes back to the energy imparted on the round rather then the physical size of the shell. Imparting the same amount of energy in a shorter time forms lots of problems, primarily discharging that energy. To discharge energy faster you will need better capacitors. Also I'm fairly sure the rails will have to get hotter and degrade faster as well as being less energy efficient. Anyway, if my guns have to be that small they should at least be able to hit frigates and just for the aesthetics, which lets face it, was what my whole post was about before it got derailed, I want my battleship to look like a battleship, not a ship with some peashooters dotted around. - Adaptation is not* an excuse for lack of ballance!* -
Kain Garion	Posted - 2008.12.01 14:08:00 - [29] the point is if we go and make EVE real the rail gun would be the best weapon hands down. a 425MM round traveling at speeds just under th speed of light would shatter on impact. the impact hole would be a meter perhaps but the exit one dozens of meters or more depending on the ship. the insane amount of energy the round has with its speed would make a single 425mm rail gun hit destroy a captital with ease. a auto cannon with its speed of perhaps a ocuple time the speed of sound would need to lauch a projectile of insane sice to do the same amount of damge. A blaster fires plasma as insane high speeds but it lacks thew weight to do much but to damge shields and cauze minor hull damge. missles are dangerous but only in alrge quanteties. a missle barrage to speak would do great damge to a fleet. (drop missles in space and than activate them. it lacks the speed bunos of luanching them but the sheer amount of them well....) a Laser works with heat verry effective for both shielding and armour. but as said put some smoke or a minor infront of it and you can smile at it. The point is EVE is a game based on a universe imagined by people. just like star trek star wars lord of the rings you name it. these universes are made this way to make them interesting for thier purpose for EVE to make a fun game. and that is what it does. Reality and fantasy are dangerous to mix just enjoy both on sepperate lines in most cases.
vostok Minmatar Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.01 14:10:00 - [30] Originally by: InsanlyEvlPerson If you stop and think about it, you dont need big guns to kill a spaceship, all you have to do is breech enough decks of the ship and the crew dies =P Lets not start the discussion about whether battleships have crews or not. Also, you still need something to punch through a few 1600mm plates of tungsten with energized fields holding them together before you get to the juicy bits of the ship. - Adaptation is not* an excuse for lack of ballance!* -

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