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Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:47:00 -
[1]
Intersting exploit and noted as the ops text will surely be zapped by a mod. 
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.01 20:56:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: Zeba
Intersting exploit and noted as the ops text will surely be zapped by a mod.
not a exploit.
infact this have been done for years, just not with orcas
I'm sorry let me expand on that. Exploits are only ever banned as exploits when it becomes moar of a common use for them instead of a few crafty iterations. As in when a couple of people exploit CCP ignores it but when it becomes mainstream the nerfbat follows closely. And with Orcas about to become mainstream as the only high sec ship with a maintainance bay you can place at will near your intended targets you can bet it will take off like wildfire.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.01 21:10:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Artemis Rose
It doesn't sound like an exploit, just a suicide gank op that has to be more frantic because you facing NPC police (for being an outlaw) and CONCORD for actually firing on people.
1. Outlaws CAN be in high sec, they just get shot by all players and they will trigger NPC faction police spawns (that web,neut and do some pretty big DPS). Its not an exploit for an outlaw player to be in high sec, to fly around in high sec, to aggress other players in high sec.
2. The result would have been the same if they were non flashy. In fact, it'd be much easier to organize simply because you would not have to be evading NPC faction police anytime an outlaw was in a ship.
You are correct toa certain point. Outlaws are by the game mechanics still let into highsec but, and this is a big but, they are not supposed to be able to easily organise and execute any military operations in high sec. Before the Orca it was a total hassle to run an op like the op described but now it will simply be lulz park an orca just off the grid to your targets and pew pew all day long with no meaningful mechanics to stop it. 
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.01 21:19:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Dyaven
Originally by: Zeba
with no meaningful mechanics to stop it.
Kill the orca?
You mean the orca with the alt pilot in the npc corp? Yup that will go over well.
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: Zeba
Before the Orca it was a total hassle to run an op like the op described but now it will simply be lulz park an orca just off the grid to your targets and pew pew all day long with no meaningful mechanics to stop it.
Shoot them?
Yes and how is a mining op in high sec supposed to shoot at the incoming suicide gank from off the grid? Clairvoyance? "Hey faeifhu12388 my spidey senses are tingling! What you mean flower4455? I have a feeling we are about to get ganked so quick to the station for our combat ships stat!"
Don't get me wrong as I adore this new tactic I'm just saying you better get your jollies in now before CCP wakes up and applies the nerfbat is all.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.01 21:52:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
As for "omg they come out of nowhere I can't sees them before". How about you learn2overview, ****ing noob. They appear in local in bright colors.
I think the argument here is that it makes it too easy for -10 who should be pwnd as soon as they enter empire and not that suicide ganking is 'wrong' or too easy or hard.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.01 22:02:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dantes Revenge
The big question here is: How can the Orca get combat ships into the ship maint bay while the Rorqual can't? Isn't the Orca supposed to be 'little bro' to the Rorqual? The Rrorqual gives and error that only industrial ships can dock in the maint bay. CCP's oversight maybe?
Nope orca is a jack of all trade sub-capital industrial command ship. Its maint bay will accept all ships so that annoying little glitch about transporting rigged ships in high-sec got fixed. Methinks CPP may have already thought of this specific situation though as they did exclude battleships from the orcas bay and never really explained in detail why they did it.
Originally by: Dantes Revenge
Also, I have to admit that what is the point of a sec status restriction in certain sec systems if a pod can still enter? You get a warning that you're entering lowsec when you try to jump through a gate, the same system should be in place to prevent those with -5 or lower entering highsec. Sorry if this sounds too restrictive to those with a low sec rating but you earned that rating for illegal actions and it should be enforced, pod as well.
If you were in the outback and preyed on innocent passers-by, you would be branded an outlaw. since the police would probably be unable to catch you there, you would be free to roam. However, if you entered a town either in a car or on foot, you would be arrested and put in jail. Therefore your action creates a virtual boundary into the civilised world that you can't cross. Since Concord don't pod, it should be a physical boundary.
Nothing wrong with outlaw mechanics in general so no need to 'fix' it.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.01 22:24:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Minsc
It seems to me that as soon as the -10 pilot boards a ship the faction police should be warping in to blow the ship up and not when they have had time to enter the belt and suicide someone. Also I agree that any pilot who lets an outlaw access their ship maintenance bay in high-sec should get flagged as an accomplice in the act. It's like saying that the getaway driver in a bank robbery isn't guilty if the robbers never make it out of the bank.
Its not really the faction police who are the problem its the sentry guns. The orca trick takes sentrys out of the equation. And yeah the way CCP will probably fix it if they even feel it needs to be quickly fixed is flagging the orca pilot for letting a flashy red use the maint bay.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.01 22:32:00 -
[8]
True, forgot about that. Well it looks like CCP will have some thinking to do. As it stands I've been looking for a reason to pick up an orca and I just happen to know some flashy reds in a few systems near the highsec carebear concentrations. 
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.02 00:03:00 -
[9]
What she said^
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.02 21:46:00 -
[10]
Tbh with the upcoming insurance payoff nerf for suicide ganking I don't really see CCP even attempting to plug this particular hole in hampering a -10s ability to pirate in high sec. Profitability issues will then by thier very nature keep pirates to moastly cruisers and dessys which a smartly tanked hulk or even retriever can shrug off with ease. Untanked indys and other assorted max cargo/yield ships however will still fall prey to them as they should.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.02 22:00:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg
This is nothing more than a typical suicide gank with the exception they are doing it under fire from Navy Police. It's *not* an exploit to avoid the Faction navies provided you're under fire from them. It *is* an exploit to avoid being killed by CONCORD. Neither are happening here.
Would it make you more comfortable if they loaded up into their ships from a station instead? Because you could do exactly the same thing from a station.
It is however an exploit for a -10 to easily bypass all the game mechnics set up to make this sort of suicide gank very difficult under normal curcumstances. Before: -10 had to have access to a friendly high sec pos with a maint bay in the same system as the target or at least some alts/friends with the proper ship skills to drop off fitted ships at a chosen safespot. Now: -10 warps to a point just off the grid from his target and hops into a ship already jetted from a completely mobile base of operations that can setup a new safe next to a new set of targets in the relative wink of an eye compared to the old way of doing this. Btw the orca as used in this fashion is immune to all aggro past a counter suicide op. Would you not say that is greatly easing the burden of a pirate looking to hunt in systems he should have to sweat balls to hunt in normally?
Again I'm just being the devils advocate and heartily approve of this use of the orca. 
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.02 23:40:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Zeba on 02/12/2008 23:40:20
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg
Being in Factional Warfare makes you KOS to opposing navies, low security status means your KOS to all faction navies, with the added caveat that all highsec pilots can kill you, versus just those in the opposing NPC corporation.
Because there's two fundamental mechanics at work here.
1) Avoiding (you're under fire, you're just not engaging them) the Navy NPCs (Not an exploit)
2) Having a neutral-sec PC ferrying ships to highsec (Not an exploit either).
(edit: made it less confrontational after reading your full post  )
An eloquent argument that only fails on the red part. By having a cloaked orca uncloak to spit out a ship for the pirate to gank in bypasses any realistic chance at a normal eve pilot getting a crack at them even using a top skilled cov ops especially in a system that has lots of people in space. Yes technically you can kill the pod at a gate or station but really that would be the shearest of luck at best due to wtz and pods instawarping. All the other options save the tedious one of having an alt ferry the ships one by one to a prearranged safespot or a friendly pos requires the ship with said pirate to be vulneralbe to any pilot with a warp scrambler. Faction police warp in and bye bye pirate ship and maybe the pod too. An orca lets you just whip around from safespot to safespot in your pod until the orca spits out all the needed ships then you warp to the ships and have at it. And after the gank you can wait out the gcc as your orca moves to the next safespot and target with a fresh set of ships waiting for you as soon as your gcc expires.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.03 00:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sun Zoo
We both know CCP is likely to turn the ship maintence bay into a Roq clone. It's easy to do and "addresses the issue".
Well first its not really an issue until the petitions come flooding in from upset carebears with cancelled account following and with the scarcity and priciness of orcas atm I don't really see it becoming an issue until after the insurance nerf hits. But once that hits then casual suicide ganking will pretty much disappear and will become the realm of dedicated pirates and privateers who scout out thier target for the iskies potential and not just the lulz I blew up ur ship mentality. Basically I don't see CCP doing anything at all about it just think of it as a stealth pirate boost.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.03 06:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ris Dnalor
-10 player jumps quickly into hi sec space, shoots a ship, then dies to concord.
no game mechanic being exploited here.
move on.
Hi sec is not meant to be safe. Get over it. Hi sec means someone that attacks you will be destroyed. That happened. If you don't want to lose a ship then bring some guards, or better yet, fly something you can afford to lose.
better yet, watch local and if you see people with -10 status jumping in, dock.
You didn't even make it past the title of the thread eh?
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
|
Posted - 2008.12.04 23:40:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Angel Lightbringer
Originally by: Karille
Originally by: Angel Lightbringer
In other words: fit a ship, if you can jump in and warp to a belt to jump on someone without being shot while being able to have a kill, it's all good. Otherwise, it's exploiting a mechanic. Something else I supposedly got wrong?
Not only is it possible to do this in a plated smartbombing megathron, but the navy helps because they web you and you warp instantly.
What? They lack a scrambler?
I though it was only a matter of speed, not badly fit Navy ships...
To me Navy==CONCORD, but for other reasons.
I never had to deal with Navy, I sadly assumed they were as geared as their CONCORD counterpart.
The lack of scram is to let any intersted passerby with a warp scrambler to get in on the action. That plated smartie equiped mega will go down fast enough with a player point on it at a gate. Matter of fact one of the funner things my fw alt does is hang out at gates in a raptor waiting for the enemy that tries that very trick to make a run though hostile faction space and fitting a sensor booster with res script means even the pods don't get away.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
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