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EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.03 11:48:00 - [1] Pretty sure we were promised something along the lines of T2 veldspar quite a long time ago in 0.0 to make it actually realistic to supply ourselves with low ends. As it stands its still cheaper to mine high ends in 0.0, move the high ends to empire, then spend numerous trips running a very large quantity of trit back to 0.0 in a jump freighter via XL Torps(The best trit compression rate) I know it's crazy, but you could just give us a veldspar that has 4-8x the yield in trit. Beyond pvp, sov benefits, and moon mining there is almost no reason to stay in 0.0. Certainly none of it stacks risk vs reward ------------------------------------------------- Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.03 13:32:00 - [2] Originally by: Chribba Tier 2 =! T2 and I'll have a Veldspar BPO please. Thanks. Yes I am completely aware of this. But they refered to it as a Tier 2 veldspar and in my mind it would be more of a tech2(Except you couldn't really have a high tech asteroid) Rorquals are neat except it makes time spent moving the trit from highsec to lowsec to compressing it to moving it out to 0.0 just unrealistic. Mining it straight in low sec isn't even remotely worth the risk and CCP seems to be doing everything they can to make it as hard on 0.0 logistics teams as possible. ------------------------------------------------- Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.03 13:33:00 - [3] Sorry I am not a very organized thinker, I can't make an awesomely formatted post with bullets and all that(Lawl Goon). Just an idea and some blocks of words. ------------------------------------------------- Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.03 14:00:00 - [4] Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 03/12/2008 14:01:30 Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo I've read some ideas forwarded to me by Nyphur that spoke of integrating 'veins' of better ore in larger asteroids. Some other ideas I've been thinking about Ore: Following on from Nyphur's idea, addressing the fact that ores all seem neatly separated I think it would be interesting if the ores were mixed together in asteroids, and that there would be minable and non-minable components. The miner would need to target 'sections' of the asteroid. The clever miner would know which areas had the best ratio of ores and mine them preferentially. This system would make it more difficult for miners to selectively remove the entire supply of one kind of ore, and also make optimising mining income more of a specialist, engaging pursuit. For this to work asteroids would need to be: - Bigger, much bigger - Contain different targetable sections - Become heterogenous, with some sections that cannot be mined The compound asteroids would work to the effect of creating more varieties of ore, in which can be integrated what Ed mentioned - whereby there could be veins (as Nyphur suggested) of much higher quality ore. What stops y ou from using 8 mining lasers on anything, canceling the cycle 2 seconds in and seeing what ore you get from each part of the rock? (Taking all skill out of it just simply making it so you cant mine by labels) Edit: In effect the only thing you would accomplish is make mining more time consuming with almost no real benefit(Unless you gave a higher yield than you currently do) ------------------------------------------------- Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.03 14:11:00 - [5] A very interesting idea but you would probably have to change the way things registered in your overview so you were unable to see the things inside from the get go. If they could do this that would be fantastic but in reality I think simply asking for a better yield low end mineral as the limits to what ccp can do on the short term ------------------------------------------------- Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.03 14:14:00 - [6] Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 03/12/2008 14:14:51 Yes but to make these objects remain off your overview they would either need a way to temporarily hide them or make them spawn as the layer was stripped. Somehow I think that would be more of a long term goal and not something to fix just one of the many woes of 0.0 logistics Also it would require a very expansive change to every belt in the game. ------------------------------------------------- Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.03 14:19:00 - [7] Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Originally by: EdFromHumanResources A very interesting idea but you would probably have to change the way things registered in your overview so you were unable to see the things inside from the get go. If they could do this that would be fantastic but in reality I think simply asking for a better yield low end mineral as the limits to what ccp can do on the short term Naturally, there is only so much that can be done. If this idea is formally written up and gets adequate support it could happen sooner than soon(tm). Unfortunately I think it's less of what you suggest or how you suggest it but who endorses it at this point. If CCP sees enough of the community behind one idea they tend to put it in eventually. But we have to be vocal and constant. You can find dozens of well thought out, well formatted ideas that have died quiet deaths in this forum. The changes we have seen involved mass public outcry. ------------------------------------------------- Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.03 14:48:00 - [8] Awesome someone did a fancy bulleted list with good points for what i was suggesting :) Also other avenues to make this more feasible is giving 0.0 stations and pos an innate reduction to the amount of low ends BPO's require simply because of where they are(How you justify this in an RP sense I don't really care) ------------------------------------------------- Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.03 14:59:00 - [9] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo That's true. Hopefully our elected CSM will pick up on this issue and do their best to give it the publicity it needs As an alt, you can raise issues too. At least we allowed for that during CSM1. So get busy I'd personally love to raise the issue, I am attempting to find someone to help me raise it because unorganized blobs of text are unlikely to get pushed through ------------------------------------------------- Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.03 15:16:00 - [10] Originally by: Morrigan Shaikorth Originally by: EdFromHumanResources I'd personally love to raise the issue, I am attempting to find someone to help me raise it because unorganized blobs of text are unlikely to get pushed through I'll Manifesto it complete with skills and numbers in a few days. Finals are eating my ass alive right now though. I'd really appreciate that. ------------------------------------------------- Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.05 19:22:00 - [11] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Morrigan Shaikorth Some of your assumptions don't make much sense, given my personal experience with deep 0.0 logistics and mining. The 0.0 regions would export low-ends and screw up the market. Well that's really only one assumption but you're quite correct that it's not proven. However, I've lived in a little corner of 0.0 before where the hauler spawns dropped 45-90m of trit a time and the demand for trit there was not outstripped by the supply. We actually DID have people exporting it through mineral compression. So that assumption was based on personal experience even if that experience proves to be the minority in 0.0 (which I'm well aware that it is). I'm willing to concede that tritanium and pyerite are currently not easy enough to export to be significantly worth it. But are you specifically suggesting we only only super tritanium or don't you want high quality kernite, isogen etc? At what point would the other minerals be feasible to export? Quote: If miners can locally produce everything needed to build a BS and not take a huge profit hit doing so, most people will happily mine away at whatever they feel has the most value, bit it personal profit, or corp level industrial projects. I know I would personally take my hulk out and mine up enough minerals to produce a batch of cruisers and frigates for the new players in my group. It's a hell of a lot easier to take the profit hit than it is to go all the way from southern Esoteria to lowsec, compress a bunch of minerals, cart them back home, and refine them than it is to just haul it back to the station and pres butan. When I lived in 0.0, I had the most irritating experience. I wanted to mine the ore to build things but losing out on 20-30m/hour by mining veldspar just made it completely infeasible. It's currently not feasible to mine minerals locally and while making as much isk/hour from every ore in 0.0 would solve that problem, I think that's overkill. You also have to consider that mineral prices are not static, so there really is no way to balance it so that you make as much isk on each ore. All we need is for it to be made significantly more feasible to mine lowends. If I could make about half as much isk per hour mining jaspet or veldspar in 0.0 as I could mining the ABC's, I'd definitely do it for the sake of local production. So the small scale operations would export it whereas the larger ones(The ones this would really be for) would finally be making even on things. I don't see this as destroying the economy especially with the massive increase in trit prices. ------------------------------------------------- Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar

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