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Used computer games hurt the industry! says Atari

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Demeterus Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.07 02:03:00 - [1] Considering that Atari will be the corporation that will sell Eve-in-a-box in a while, this article was very interesting - and maybe even revealing - about the company's hopes and plans. Linkage What do you think? Is this a good attitude for a partner for CCP? --- Why are you reading my sig? Did you expect something of sigs?
Demeterus Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.07 02:06:00 - [2] More on this from CNet Linkage --- Why are you reading my sig? Did you expect something of sigs?
Neth'Rae Gallente Decorum Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.07 02:11:00 - [3] It's true though.. But it doesn't concern EVE at all or any other MMOs, since you're not allowed to sell your account, and even if you did, the person buying it would still keep on paying for the subscription.. I do Sigs, Banners and other Graphics for ISK. Click Here!
Khemul Zula Amarr Black Plague.	Posted - 2008.12.07 02:11:00 - [4] Did you read the article? ------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.12.07 02:15:00 - [5] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 07/12/2008 02:17:08 What is just as bad as used games, or possibly even worse, is successful games. If somebody has a few games they really like, they feel less need to buy new games. So the industry needs to make more games that have a flashy appearance so that people buy them and boring game play such that people get tired of them quickly. That way people are always buying the latest and greatest. It no good if they just keep playing the same games that they have enjoyed for years. Its a good thing that most of my favorite games don't work very well on newer hardware and operating systems. Because if they did I wouldn't buy any new games.
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2008.12.07 02:16:00 - [6] Every publisher sings that whiny song. They are using it as leverage against brick-n-mortar stores when negotiating deals that include both online and retail distribution. ... and with CCPs actions the last 6-12 months, don't you think they're actually a match made in heaven?
Neth'Rae Gallente Decorum Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.07 02:25:00 - [7] Edited by: Neth''Rae on 07/12/2008 02:25:43 Used games can almost be compared to piracy but on a smaller scale.. One person buys a game full price, sells it for half price, then the next person sells it for half price to the next person who sells it to the next person and then to the next person.. So one person payed 60$ for a game which 10 people have been playing, so the publisher only get money from the first person paying for the game.. Piracy would be one person buying the game and ripping it, then sharing it to millions of people :D Actually that's a pretty nice idea.. Let's say the game sells for 60$, someone buys it and sells it back to the store for like 30$ and the store sells it to YOU for 40$, and then you sell it back to the store for 30$ which means you've only payed 10$ for a game. I do Sigs, Banners and other Graphics for ISK. Click Here!
Snasty Caldari The Hippies House of Mercury	Posted - 2008.12.07 02:26:00 - [8] Does the same (feeble) argument not apply to everything, books, furniture, cars etc...
Neth'Rae Gallente Decorum Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.07 02:28:00 - [9] Originally by: Snasty Does the same (feeble) argument not apply to everything, books, furniture, cars etc... It does indeed. But usually when you sell your sofa you have to buy a new one, same with cars :P I do Sigs, Banners and other Graphics for ISK. Click Here!
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2008.12.07 02:29:00 - [10] Originally by: Neth'Rae Edited by: Neth''Rae on 07/12/2008 02:25:43 Used games can almost be compared to piracy but on a smaller scale... Just like selling used cars is a crime, yes?

Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.12.07 02:31:00 - [11] Next on the agenda: Outlawing all second hand sales and trades. Throw moar stuff away for the wellbeing of the economy! You didn't want that worn out second hand crap anyways. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Demeterus Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.07 02:35:00 - [12] Well, to be, capitalism is wasted on some corporations. They don't really get the point of it. :) And the problems are most starkly light up in the entertainment business where the customer is seen as a crook that needs to be controlled with DRM and stuff. If a second hand card salesman demanded that your used car be fitted with a transmitter that sent back data about where your car was used, where the car went, and about the contents of the trunk.... --- Why are you reading my sig? Did you expect something of sigs?
Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.12.07 02:37:00 - [13] A used CD loses no value though, the software on the disk is just as good 10 years later. Used software sales is 100% profit to the retailer, and every cent is out of the software developer's pocket. ___________________ Yes I'm bitter. (the taste you can see!)
Demeterus Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.07 02:37:00 - [14] Addition... The interesting part about those two articles weren't really the whines about used sales, but that Atari because they think used sales are so bad want to get into the online gaming biz. And with the news about the CCP deal... /insert tinfoil articles of clothing here --- Why are you reading my sig? Did you expect something of sigs?
Cierejai Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.07 02:39:00 - [15] Maybe developers should try making more good games rather then rehashing the same thing over and over again.
5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.12.07 02:57:00 - [16] Near Involuntary patches + Draconian DRM + The obsession with churnning out the most graphically intense and hardware demanding buggy piles of ****e. I couldn't give a stuff about developers. You're just a number that has money to them. The only developer I can really feel any pride in is Valve. The crap they churn out and abandon these days is what drove me to MMORPG's really and to ignore the mainstream games market almost entirely.
ZinderX500 Caldari Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.07 03:03:00 - [17] Edited by: ZinderX500 on 07/12/2008 03:04:14 Then, make something that most of the companies seem to have forgotten. Good games. That, will make people collect them and never sell. Originally by: 5pinDizzy Near Involuntary patches + Draconian DRM + The obsession with churnning out the most graphically intense and hardware demanding buggy piles of ****e. I couldn't give a stuff about developers. You're just a number that has money to them. The only developer I can really feel any pride in is Valve. The crap they churn out and abandon these days is what drove me to MMORPG's really and to ignore the mainstream games market almost entirely. Oh yeah. +1
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.12.07 03:13:00 - [18] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 07/12/2008 03:14:14 Originally by: Neth'Rae Originally by: Snasty Does the same (feeble) argument not apply to everything, books, furniture, cars etc... It does indeed. But usually when you sell your sofa you have to buy a new one, same with cars :P People who sells games are people who buy them. Usually they sell theirs games to buy new ones. Same as cars. Fetchez la vache !
Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.12.07 03:26:00 - [19] Yeah valve is so much better than EA about reusing old technology and making sequels. EA just made SPORE and Warhammer and C&C and Mirror's Edge which is practically all the same game. Valve made all sorts of revolutionary new mods for theirs source engine and all new half-life 2 expansions which really pushed them to the limits of the human's ability to adapt and grow. ___________________ Yes I'm bitter. (the taste you can see!)
Wadaya Caldari Trailerpark Industries	Posted - 2008.12.07 03:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Neth'Rae Edited by: Neth''Rae on 07/12/2008 02:25:43 Used games can almost be compared to piracy but on a smaller scale.. One person buys a game full price, sells it for half price, then the next person sells it for half price to the next person who sells it to the next person and then to the next person.. So one person payed 60$ for a game which 10 people have been playing, so the publisher only get money from the first person paying for the game.. Piracy would be one person buying the game and ripping it, then sharing it to millions of people :D Actually that's a pretty nice idea.. Let's say the game sells for 60$, someone buys it and sells it back to the store for like 30$ and the store sells it to YOU for 40$, and then you sell it back to the store for 30$ which means you've only payed 10$ for a game. So you're saying used cars are the real reason GM and Ford need a bailout?

Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.12.07 03:42:00 - [21] Personally the industry can only blame itself for this. Back in the day (waves a walking cane around) the physical game was fantastic. You'd pay your $50-$100 and get a nice big A4 size cardboard box with cool artwork, mockup shots, and inside was a gorgeous manual. The 'Dark Reign' manual was fantastic imo, Starcraft had 100s of pages of backstory, and games back in the day such as "The Settlers" and K240 on Amiga gained just as much value from reading the manuals as you did from actually playing the game. Now my fellow gamers surround me with a "Clock the game, push it on" mentality. Nobody wants to 'experience' games anymore, they just want to finish it and shelve it, knowing it'll never go anywhere else again. And the marketing employed this day and age matches this attitude. I was incredibly disappointed when I bought Dune 2000 and found the manual came only in PDF form on a CD. Looking at the pages the manual would've looked great in a bound printed version. Instead they went cheap and nasty (while still keeping a $50-100 pricetag like games of old). Yeah I had it in PDF, but there's a big difference having something electronic vs something you can hold in your hands and turn the pages of. Games these days come in a tiny DVD case with a 10 page manual telling you the controls, a couple hard-to-see black and white screenshots and, well,, that's about it. It's pretty bloody pathetic, and it fuels the "Clock it, ditch it for some cash back" mentality. The packaging of the games doesn't make any attempt to endear you to the games. I look to my XBox/Xbox 360 games and just see a stack of green cases tucked away under the TV unit. I look to my old PC games of Dark Reign/Starcraft displayed proudly on my bookshelf like someone would display an expensive set of books. Back in the day people would keep the boxes and manuals intact, because you knew your $80+ purchase would only get you about $5 if you didn't have a nice box and manual to go with it. Now I see second hand games with nothing more than, for example, an empty Xbox case with the DVD and a white piece of paper with the games name scribbled on it being flogged off for only a fraction less than it's new, boxed up with manual counterpart. Gaming isn't a niche anymore, the domain of only the biggest nerds. It's mainstream. And the result of it becoming mainstream is poor quality merchandise nobody wants to keep and more often than not, poor quality games with no content or depth, just shiny graphics and noises, with the now-mandatory "multiplayer function" touted as a "feature". It's quite pathetic really. --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
Kessiaan Minmatar Army of One	Posted - 2008.12.07 03:47:00 - [22] You know, I don't have any issues with developers that take either of these stances: 1) You bought our game. You can do whatever the hell the want with it, but when you sell it on you can't play it anymore. Most console games work like this. - or - 2) You bought our game. Actually, you bought a lifetime license to our game and you can't transfer it, but you can play our game on anything it'll run on. STEAM works like this, and it's why I love it so much. What I won't deal with is companies like EA who says you 'bought' their game but you can only install it on X computers and then you need to 'buy' it again. That sounds more like an extended rental to me and I don't like to rent. Also rootkit = instant fail. I don't care what your excuse is.
Tellenta Gallente Invicta. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.12.07 05:16:00 - [23] alright this wasn't a long article but I'll cut and paste the most importantpart, it wasnt a whine article "But as games change and they become more and more network centric, the disc in the box becomes only one part of the experience. As that experience grows then it becomes not such a problem," commented Gardner. While for the next twelve months Atari is very much behind boxed product, its long-term goals are to incorporate more online content into the business, as it pursues new opportunities with connected services. "There's no doubt that second hand games sales has a macro-economic impact on the industry and a lot of people get miserable about it," offered Phil Harrison, president of Atari. "But it's no coincidence that the most valuable games, the one's that have the most lifetime as a game experience, are the one's that don't get resold, that don't get traded. "The games that have the embedded community, the embedded commerce, the extended, expandable experiences, are the one's that you would never want to trade, the one's you want to keep ho
Tellenta Gallente Invicta. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.12.07 05:18:00 - [24] Ie. hey good on-line game seem to be a stable income as opposed to the play it win it sell it games
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.12.07 05:48:00 - [25] Maybe if Atari stopped making **ty games, people wouldn't play it for a week, go wtf and try to sell it like it is going to explode. Atari/Infrograms ruined Master of Orion, them, ** them to hell. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.12.07 06:40:00 - [26] Originally by: Abrazzar Next on the agenda: Outlawing all second hand sales and trades. Throw moar stuff away for the wellbeing of the economy! You didn't want that worn out second hand crap anyways. Wow, my jeans are 6 years old but my suits are replaced yearly (donated for a nice tax deduction). Why is it ok for me to dress like a scrub on weekends but weekdays I have to be in a three piece suit. Life isn't fair.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.12.07 08:12:00 - [27] Edited by: Gnulpie on 07/12/2008 08:16:23 Second hand car sales has economically been extremly painful for the industry. It is no wonder that the car manufacturing industry is almost ruined! I suggest that second hand car selling will be forbidden! Additionally the car manufacturing industry should release new engines which will need completely new fuel so that you cannot use your old cars after a few years without unreasonable amout of trouble. Everyone will profit. Really ... Edit: Oh I forgot the topic, hehe. Well, CCP is also in such a good financial position because they made the right choices in the past. NOT selling the game itself but instead the sell the service of playing the game on a unsharded server. This was really a clever idea - sure, it costs a lot more in the beginning but the profits in the long runs will be better and more stable. For example CCP cannot be hurt by second hand game selling, hey, Eve is free to download anyway! Also CCP cannot be hurt by pirate servers where they would run Eve and where you could connect to for free. That is just not working with such a huge world. Eve is not only a piece of software and a piece of hardware. It is the whole experience of 300.000 people in a single world interacting with each other. And THAT you cannot copy.
Decidivus Jones	Posted - 2008.12.07 09:26:00 - [28] Originally by: Jmanis Catharg Personally the industry can only blame itself for this. Back in the day (waves a walking cane around) the physical game was fantastic. You'd pay your $50-$100 and get a nice big A4 size cardboard box with cool artwork, mockup shots, and inside was a gorgeous manual. The 'Dark Reign' manual was fantastic imo, Starcraft had 100s of pages of backstory, and games back in the day such as "The Settlers" and K240 on Amiga gained just as much value from reading the manuals as you did from actually playing the game. Now my fellow gamers surround me with a "Clock the game, push it on" mentality. Nobody wants to 'experience' games anymore, they just want to finish it and shelve it, knowing it'll never go anywhere else again. And the marketing employed this day and age matches this attitude. I was incredibly disappointed when I bought Dune 2000 and found the manual came only in PDF form on a CD. Looking at the pages the manual would've looked great in a bound printed version. Instead they went cheap and nasty (while still keeping a $50-100 pricetag like games of old). Yeah I had it in PDF, but there's a big difference having something electronic vs something you can hold in your hands and turn the pages of. Games these days come in a tiny DVD case with a 10 page manual telling you the controls, a couple hard-to-see black and white screenshots and, well,, that's about it. It's pretty bloody pathetic, and it fuels the "Clock it, ditch it for some cash back" mentality. The packaging of the games doesn't make any attempt to endear you to the games. I look to my XBox/Xbox 360 games and just see a stack of green cases tucked away under the TV unit. I look to my old PC games of Dark Reign/Starcraft displayed proudly on my bookshelf like someone would display an expensive set of books. Back in the day people would keep the boxes and manuals intact, because you knew your $80+ purchase would only get you about $5 if you didn't have a nice box and manual to go with it. Now I see second hand games with nothing more than, for example, an empty Xbox case with the DVD and a white piece of paper with the games name scribbled on it being flogged off for only a fraction less than it's new, boxed up with manual counterpart. Gaming isn't a niche anymore, the domain of only the biggest nerds. It's mainstream. And the result of it becoming mainstream is poor quality merchandise nobody wants to keep and more often than not, poor quality games with no content or depth, just shiny graphics and noises, with the now-mandatory "multiplayer function" touted as a "feature". It's quite pathetic really. Amen!
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.07 09:34:00 - [29] Originally by: Pohbis ... and with CCPs actions the last 6-12 months, don't you think they're actually a match made in heaven?
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2008.12.07 10:05:00 - [30] bleh if they made their back catalogue avaiable on digitial download sites like gamersgate and steam then it would be ok im still trying to find the old strategy game alpha centauri



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