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Dmian Gallente Gallenterrorisme	Posted - 2008.12.10 10:46:00 - [1] Let's get this matter straight: PvP (from the PVP entry in Wikipedia) Originally by: Wikipedia Player vs player, PvP, or 'Player Killing' is competitive interaction within a game between two or more live participants. This is in contrast to games where players compete against computer controlled opponents, which is similarly referred to as player versus environment (PvE) or player versus monster (PvM). PvP is a type of combat in MMORPGs, MUDs and other computer role-playing games (CRPGs), putting one player's 'skill' against another's. So PvP is any competitive interaction between player. That includes the market or even competing for mining asteroids. Dueling Originally by: Wikipedia Dueling is both consensual and competitive. Both parties agree to a certain set of rules before combat, which can include a specified area and restrictions on items and combat type. Dueling is consensual combat PvP. Player Killing (Pking) Originally by: Wikipedia Player killer killing, PKK, or PK Killing, is a form of revenge or vigilante killing. Players specifically target and kill those who are PKing or griefing others. Pking is non consensual combat PvP. This is what pirats do often. I'm also inclined to call this PvV (Players vs. Victim) or simply PvM (Player vs. Meat) because the victim is usually defenseless (miners) or without a proper fitting for dueling (mission runners.) It's a win-win situation for the attacker and the victim will always lose something (but of course, it can retaliate in any way after the attack.) Carebear or Care Bear I had to look in my beloved Urban Dictionary for this. (From the Care Bear definition) Originally by: Urban Dictionary Lightly derogatory term for an MMO player who avoids PVP combat, heavily preferring cooperative or solo PVE combat, chatting, or developing tradeskills/running quests. Needless to say that everybody is free to use the terms as they wish. But this seems to be the general consensus about this terms. Regards. ---- Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance OWN Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.10 10:48:00 - [2] I don't see the point of this public service announcement.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.12.10 11:04:00 - [3] ITT... OP who is a true carebear. ------------ Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
Dmian Gallente Gallenterrorisme	Posted - 2008.12.10 11:13:00 - [4] Originally by: techzer0 ITT... OP who is a true carebear. Yes. I've stated that in other threads. I'm an industrialist operating in Empire. Yes, that makes me a carebear. So? And you are a pirate that operates in The Forge and do suicide ganks using an Orca (I think, but I'm not sure.) Who cares? As long as we all have fun with the game... ---- Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.12.10 11:15:00 - [5] Originally by: Dmian Originally by: techzer0 ITT... OP who is a true carebear. And you are a pirate that operates in The Forge and do suicide ganks using an Orca (I think, but I'm not sure.) Who cares? As long as we all have fun with the game... Close! But we prefer to just jump into highsec and warp to the nearest belt with miners in it... The macro ice miners hate us I went back to carebearing about 5 months ago... not gonna happen again! ------------ Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.12.10 11:15:00 - [6] Your definition of Player Killing is in fact the definition of Player Killing Killing, and according to the wikipedia definition PvP is interchangable with Player Killing, so competing on the market kills players ITT. - DesuSigs
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2008.12.10 11:16:00 - [7] Originally by: Dmian So PvP is any competitive interaction between player. That includes the market or even competing for mining asteroids. I disagree, playing the market or mining is not PvP. But cause I know how important it is to you that can describe yourself, wrongly, as a PvPer I have adapted and now call true PvP, pew pew.
Karille Gallente Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.12.10 11:19:00 - [8] Originally by: Crumplecorn Your definition of Player Killing is in fact the definition of Player Killing Killing, and according to the wikipedia definition PvP is interchangable with Player Killing, so competing on the market kills players ITT. It kills their hopes and dreams, so it's pretty close.
Major Deviant	Posted - 2008.12.10 11:20:00 - [9] Originally by: Banana Torres Originally by: Dmian So PvP is any competitive interaction between player. That includes the market or even competing for mining asteroids. I disagree, playing the market or mining is not PvP. But cause I know how important it is to you that can describe yourself, wrongly, as a PvPer I have adapted and now call true PvP, pew pew. The market is the most brutal pvp of all. In the press of few buttons you are against one/many and risk the same thing: isk. In both fields if you do not know what you are doing you risk losing a lot. Nothing compares to an onslaught of a market blob.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.12.10 11:21:00 - [10] Originally by: Banana Torres Originally by: Dmian So PvP is any competitive interaction between player. That includes the market or even competing for mining asteroids. I disagree, playing the market or mining is not PvP. But cause I know how important it is to you that can describe yourself, wrongly, as a PvPer I have adapted and now call true PvP, pew pew. Playing on the market and mining are *griefing* get it right. Buying all T2 mods at a low price and then artificially raising the price = griefing, simple. Damn griefers. ------------ Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
Dmian Gallente Gallenterrorisme	Posted - 2008.12.10 11:22:00 - [11] Edited by: Dmian on 10/12/2008 11:23:03 Originally by: Banana Torres Originally by: Dmian So PvP is any competitive interaction between player. That includes the market or even competing for mining asteroids. I disagree, playing the market or mining is not PvP. But cause I know how important it is to you that can describe yourself, wrongly, as a PvPer I have adapted and now call true PvP, pew pew. I never describe myself as a PvPer. If I have to describe my gameplay I'd say I'm an Industrialist or a "pure carebear", as the smart pirate above said. Originally by: Crumplecorn Your definition of Player Killing is in fact the definition of Player Killing Killing, and according to the wikipedia definition PvP is interchangable with Player Killing, so competing on the market kills players ITT. Yes, bad quote. Fixed. Thanks. K. Bye. ---- Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.12.10 11:26:00 - [12] Originally by: Karille It kills their hopes and dreams, so it's pretty close. :D - DesuSigs
Karille Gallente Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.12.10 11:28:00 - [13] I posit that PKing can not exist in EVE by the definition you have given. Through the act of playing the game everyone consents to engage in PVP combat at any time.
Mostly Amazing Gallente Mostly Amazing Corp	Posted - 2008.12.10 11:32:00 - [14] If market is PvP, then so is tic tac toe and so is every other "game" that involves more than 1 player. For normal EVE players the letters PvP stand for combat. For all the bears that want to justify their boring market order changing life PvP stands for markets. -------------- I R Not Completely Amazing, But I R Mostly Amazing
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.12.10 11:37:00 - [15] Originally by: Karille I posit that PKing can not exist in EVE by the definition you have given. Through the act of playing the game everyone consents to engage in PVP combat at any time. This can be said of any game with PvP. However, PK is a loaded term which implicitly segregates the playerbase into two groups, or demographics, those who kill other players and those who do not, and defines those demographics by whether they kill players or not. EVE has many different demographics, and whether they kill players and when and where and why are not defining features, so the term has no place here. - DesuSigs
SentryRaven KIA Corp	Posted - 2008.12.10 11:38:00 - [16] Originally by: Mostly Amazing If market is PvP, then so is tic tac toe and so is every other "game" that involves more than 1 player. For normal EVE players the letters PvP stand for combat. For all the bears that want to justify their boring market order changing life PvP stands for markets. Again I have to disagree with you. Seems to develop into a habit. :) -------- EBANK Forum Manager
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.12.10 11:39:00 - [17] Originally by: Mostly Amazing If market is PvP, then so is tic tac toe and so is every other "game" that involves more than 1 player. So you're saying that under our flawed definition, any game which features one player versus another player is player versus player? Hmm, I see your point. - DesuSigs
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2008.12.10 14:02:00 - [18] Originally by: Major Deviant The market is the most brutal pvp of all. In the press of few buttons you are against one/many and risk the same thing: isk. In both fields if you do not know what you are doing you risk losing a lot. Nothing compares to an onslaught of a market blob. In market PvP you risk nothing. For example, when you put up a sell order you know exacty how much this will cost you and how much you expect to gain. Now if someone undercuts you then you can either undercut back or cancel your order. In both cases you know exactly what the costs are and the expected returns and so you can make a rational decision on this. In real PvP you risk your ship, cargo and implants every time you engage. You can try and reduce the risks. But if in the middle of the fight, backup for your opponent arrives then you don't have a button to click that cancels the fight. Leaving you with your original assets intact. "Market PvP" is just another name for determining the market price of something. I dunno why the market PvPers have the need to be seen as PvPers. It would be interesting to know why they want this moniker and are not satisfied with the usual trader, industialist, etc titles.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.12.10 14:48:00 - [19] Originally by: Banana Torres blah blah blah It would be more interesting to know why 'real PvPers' are so desperate to protect their perceived exclusive right to the term. Lack of risk does not mean it isn't PvP. Don't games like WoW have basically riskless combat PvP? What is that? PvE featuring players? Not to mention, some of the most devastatingly awesome market manipulating strategies are dangerous to attempt because they can incur huge losses if other players manage to screw up your plans. Nope, not PvP at all . - DesuSigs
EnslaverOfMinmatar Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition	Posted - 2008.12.10 14:59:00 - [20] wow thank you i never knew what are those words, and now i know uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
Karille Gallente Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.12.10 15:01:00 - [21] Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar wow thank you i never knew what are those words, and now i know I've been told that's approximately 50% of the conflict.
Ralara Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2008.12.10 15:03:00 - [22] Originally by: Banana Torres In market PvP you risk nothing. BAWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA No. --
The AEther	Posted - 2008.12.10 15:07:00 - [23] Originally by: Banana Torres Originally by: Dmian So PvP is any competitive interaction between player. That includes the market or even competing for mining asteroids. I disagree, playing the market or mining is not PvP. But cause I know how important it is to you that can describe yourself, wrongly, as a PvPer I have adapted and now call true PvP, pew pew. If so, why do I get hate mail if I don't PVP anybody on the market?
NoNah	Posted - 2008.12.10 15:17:00 - [24] Edited by: NoNah on 10/12/2008 15:17:59 So to sum this up thus far. PvP == PK(First quote). Third quote states that PK == nonconsensual. Ergo, all consensual pvp is in fact not pvp. It's duelling. Which I guess in EVE is true, since you can always decide what to risk and what not to risk. If you decide to engage in PvP with your Hulk by entering the PvP arena(Done most easily by pressing Undock) it's consensual. Maybe not educated, but hey, no-one ever knows everything, right? Hence EVE does not have any form of PvP. And from post #18, EVE utilizes a static market, where prices won't change. If you buy a ware for X it will sell for Y. It won't rapidly drop in prices because others thought of the same thing you did. This is one of the few advantages we have of the severly NPC-run market EVE has, we don't have to worry about dynamics or economics. Ptui. Oh and most importantly. Truth is dicated by Wikipedia and Urban dictionary, not the peers. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 475497
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.12.10 19:55:00 - [25] Quoting from Wikipedia does not an post make. I do agree that any competition between players is PvP. Dueling may technically be PvP but it's the lamest kind. Making up a term for non-consensual PvP is silly.
Darkeen Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.10 22:47:00 - [26] Originally by: techzer0 Originally by: Dmian Originally by: techzer0 ITT... OP who is a true carebear. And you are a pirate that operates in The Forge and do suicide ganks using an Orca (I think, but I'm not sure.) Who cares? As long as we all have fun with the game... Close! But we prefer to just jump into highsec and warp to the nearest belt with miners in it... The macro ice miners hate us I went back to carebearing about 5 months ago... not gonna happen again! Never Stoop shooting down the Macrominers! Long live the Macro-miner-kIlling-Pirates! (making Eve a better game for everyone - heck you should get a security BONUS for killing them!) Regards, Jason Brisbane

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