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Neesmah Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:22:00 - [1] Know i realise the disadvantage to MWDS is the increase in sig radius, but i was wondering, does a bigger sig only mean quicker to be locked or easyier to hit when locked as well? Immensea
Sinker1345	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:23:00 - [2] Edited by: Sinker1345 on 11/12/2008 21:23:07 its easier to be locked and you take more damage I believe.
Neesmah Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:26:00 - [3] damn, pretty nerfed then Immensea
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.12.11 23:57:00 - [4] Against turrets, increasing your signature radius has the same effect as improving your opponents tracking: and thereby the number and quality of hits. Against missiles, it limits the damage that you can avoid by being smaller and faster. So basicly, in most situations you can expect to take more damage because of the increased signature. The specifics of the situation will detirming if the advantage of increased speed will out weigh the disadvantage increased signature radius.
Darkeen Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.12 00:02:00 - [5] Edited by: Darkeen on 12/12/2008 00:01:54 So Basically MWD is better against missile boats (Caldari BS?) to reduce damage you receive? Regards, Jason Brisbane
Burn Mac Minmatar The Tuskers	Posted - 2008.12.12 08:54:00 - [6] Originally by: Darkeen Edited by: Darkeen on 12/12/2008 00:01:54 So Basically MWD is better against missile boats (Caldari BS?) to reduce damage you receive? No oh no for gods sake no! the sig radius makes the missile hit you for omgwtfbbq damage.
Ordon Gundar Caldari Kingfisher Industries	Posted - 2008.12.12 10:51:00 - [7] Am I correct to say, then, that if you are flying anything that cant fly REALLY fast as a result of using a MWD, then dont use it? E.g Interceptor?
Hoshi The Einherjar Corporation	Posted - 2008.12.12 11:09:00 - [8] MWD is about getting to and from a place really fast, not about avoding damage (other than in moving out of range). There is a 3rd effect on increased signature radius. It makes you easier to probe down with scan probes. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
anomalousresult	Posted - 2008.12.12 11:42:00 - [9] Originally by: Ordon Gundar Am I correct to say, then, that if you are flying anything that cant fly REALLY fast as a result of using a MWD, then dont use it? E.g Interceptor? Or something so big that its sig radius is enormous already, eg BS, in some circumstances. And don't forget inties get a bonus which reduces the effect of the mwd sig radius increase. Which is nice.
Dr Sheepbringer Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.12 13:01:00 - [10] Basically if you sig radius matters (in BS size tub, it doesn't...it's huge already) then go for AB (if you only care about sig radius). Ceptors get a bonus in lowering the sig radius so that they can still use MWD without getting the OMGPWNAGE damege. Of course their tracking goes bonkers too, so you still need to turn off the MWD if you want to engage on short range. The ONLY GOOD THING in MWD is the speed to close in fast ( or run away, and i mean run away, not running out of damage, but getting out from there!!!). I don't put MWD's on any frigs unless it's a ceptor. AB's are fast enoug if you know where to place yourself before the engagement. Plus if the other guy ain't running it's quite easy to close in without getting shot to pieces. It does get tricky to run away, but who runs... Stop whining.
Ordon Gundar Caldari Kingfisher Industries	Posted - 2008.12.12 13:59:00 - [11] So if you are only fitting an AB to an AF, are they man enough to stand toe-to-toe, out of point range, against larger targets such as BS`s? Or, are you looking at a MWD`d Ceptor with Missile fit to do that job?
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.12 16:57:00 - [12] Originally by: Neesmah Know i realise the disadvantage to MWDS is the increase in sig radius, but i was wondering, does a bigger sig only mean quicker to be locked or easyier to hit when locked as well? Increased signature means you are locked faster by the enemy, their turrets hit you better and their missiles will do better damage. With turrets, your increased speed will mwd will help you not get hit as much even with the increased signature, not so much with missiles (but you still get a slight reduction in damage taken). You'll notice the higher meta-level mwds will not increase your signature as much as a t1/t2 mwd will do, iirc its 400% for the gistum a-type compared to 500% with t1. On that subject, I think it'd be appropriate to rethink the mwd signature increase somewhat to reflect the speed loss since the patch, 400-450% instead of 500% as a base value would be appropriate imo.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.12 17:10:00 - [13] Originally by: Darkeen Edited by: Darkeen on 12/12/2008 00:01:54 So Basically MWD is better against missile boats (Caldari BS?) to reduce damage you receive? MWD will (depending on your ship and setup ofc, e.g. shield extenders) decrease the damage taken slightly, if you are cruiser size and going against BS missiles you'll notice it, not so much for cruiser missiles. Generally speaking, as it is signature vs speed, you benefit much more from an afterburner, besides you can easily permarun afterburner and still use active tanking depending on setup. If you want to further improve that, there are the halo-implants that reduce signature, as well as the skirmish warfare ganglink 'evasive maneuvers'.
Kufan'ni Minmatar Rosa Castellum	Posted - 2008.12.13 11:54:00 - [14] Begin countdown to another AB bashing from Merin... While we wait, an impersonation: "Everything [yes, apparently everything] is faster than a ship with an AB... Yes you can shut down an MWD with a 7.5km scram [despite the fact that 9km scrams also shut down MWDs], and we all know that with an AB it is impossible to get that close... My harpy can kill any ship fitted with an AB... If you're killing people with an AB-fitted ship, you must only fight noobs... MWDs were, still are, and forever shall be manditory for every PvP ship..."
Kessiaan Minmatar Army of One	Posted - 2008.12.13 12:32:00 - [15] Originally by: Kufan'ni Begin countdown to another AB bashing from Merin... While we wait, an impersonation: "Everything [yes, apparently everything] is faster than a ship with an AB... Yes you can shut down an MWD with a 7.5km scram [despite the fact that 9km scrams also shut down MWDs], and we all know that with an AB it is impossible to get that close... My harpy can kill any ship fitted with an AB... If you're killing people with an AB-fitted ship, you must only fight noobs... MWDs were, still are, and forever shall be manditory for every PvP ship..." lmao. My personal experience has been that AFs are almost always better off fitting an AB, since small sig + reasonable speed + naturally high resists will tend to mitigate most damage down to something a small repper can deal with, at least for a while. With a T2 warp disruptor you'll be able to finish off most people before they can run out of range, whether they have an MWD or not. T1 frigs - they're made of tissue paper, nothing will change that. MWD, get in, gank the crap out of whatever it is, get out. Interceptors - MWD, goes without saying. Cruisers and up it's not nearly as clear-cut. Generally if I'm expecting small targets I'll fit an MWD, if I'm expecting to get shot at by BCs or BSs, AB, for the same reasons as a frig. Higher meta ABs give better speed bonuses. Cheap faction is worth looking into. You can also overheat an AB for a longass time before it burns itself up. ... besides, I've said all I'm going to say. You're reading my sig now! Bwa! -
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.12.13 13:05:00 - [16] All ships that are not some AFs or capital ships: MWD. Some AFs: AB. Here's why: Dictating range is more important than dictating tracking. Consider: Those of you with an AB and long range guns: What are you going to do when something with a MWD comes and destroys you? Those of you with an AB and short range guns: What are you going to do when anything with a MWD amd longer range (which will be most ships) shows up and destroys you? AB and long range guns is sort of acceptable, but not really. AB and short range guns is, at the risk of sounding like Merin, a comedy killmail. This is to say nothing of how utterly, utterly worthless you'll be to a gang if you fit an AB and short range guns "so that i can avoid damage in web range." Also, enjoy trying to burn back to a gate / out of a bubble (if nullsec) / across a station to the undock point / with an AB. You're not going to enjoy it. The exception is for ships that are still faster than pretty much everything else with an AB fit - mostly assault frigates (ceptors should be getting MWDs). More specifically, the ishkur is really the only AF where you want to do this (because it can still deal damage even if it's not at the optimal of its blasters.) __________________________________ Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
Orakkus Minmatar m3 Corp BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.12.13 21:10:00 - [17] Well, on this I found its more complicated than just what ship type goes well with the AB or MWD. It strongly depends on what you plan to do, and that ABs tend to be very situational.. and in my experience, are only good if you are working solo or in fast attack groups. And a big portion of using the afterburner over the MWD is based on your ability to manipulate the scenario, which requires alot more skill to pull off using an afterburner. I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet.
Donna Maria Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.15 16:31:00 - [18] 0.0 = Bubbles Bubbles = MWD Seems like the roaming fleet with Afterburners fitted gets ganged at the first bubble camp they run into. Im the girl momma warned you about..
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2008.12.16 03:25:00 - [19] Lately I've my easiest kills while the guys were MWD'ing to or from me. To dictate their range. The sig radius is just too big to miss, even with sloppy transversal try it, it's rather fun there's no point MWD'ing anywhere near a missile boat these days. but to answer the OP (maybe for the 6th time) Large Sig radius means you get locked faster, receive more/full damage from missiles and are easier to hit. Refer to the discussion regarding Target painters Vs Tracking Computers.

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