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REmove ECM from game

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 11:28:00 - [1] Quote: ECM is chance based. Only if sensors are more powerfull than ECM. Otherwise = permajam. Dampeners are useless in mid-close range. ECM still 100% effective. Quote: Drones will still attack while you are being ECM'd. FoF missiles still work when you're being ECM'd. From 170-250km ??? Your' joking ?? That's normal working distance of falcons. And drones attack within 57 at max skills. FOF missiles will fire at nearest agressive target. This meaning usually HACs and intys holding you. Doing almost 0 damage. = Fail. Missiles are only Caldari weapon. And they are not a good option in PvP. Quote: If you can't fight effectively without ECM ruining your day - you might want to change how you're fighting. Totally wrong.
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 11:55:00 - [2] Originally by: Mickey Simon If you can give me a falcon/rook setup that will have a jamming strength of ~40-50 for a racial ECM I'd agree it's OP (BS sensor strength when using an ECCM). Who needs 40-50 str ?? I only want to say, that last time i was in fight support vs capitals, 6-7 carriers were almost perma-jammed by the same ammount of falcons. Quote: As it stands, I think the average is about a jam strength of 15-18 with good skills and T1 rigs. Sure, you've got 14.5 approx. Rigs having heavy penalty, so they are almost useless Quote: If you can't fight effectively without ECM ruining your day - you might want to change how you're fighting. Totally wrong. How so? I can't win against a Mega in my Ibis, obviously Megathrons are OP - let's nerf them. I can't win against a Tempest in my failfit Rohk with small projectiles, obviously Tempests are OP - let's nerf them. Actually you can. Ibis + Falcon. you run out of batterys in time %) Quote: If you're not willing to change your tactics or how you're fighting to get rid of ECM boats when they do come on grid, then you deserve to get jammed and killed. This is why i'm very carefull them facing cloacked enemys. 1-2 falcons can totally disable small roaming gang. And yes. ECM is overpowered. I admit it even if i use it. It must be in game, but it need to be balanced. Specialized EW ship with 3!!! bonuses to 1 weapon system is Overpowered. Other Force-Recons have splitted bonuses to: Damage (Drone in pilgrim). Primary EW (TD in pilgrim). Secodary (Drain\Neut ammount in pilgrim) And none of them have EW range bonus like Falcons. There will be less problems with 70-80km jammer optimal not 200+
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 11:59:00 - [3] Originally by: Tippia Wat? Are you saying that only Caldari use missiles? No. There are plenty of ships among the other races that are missile boats. Or are you saying that the Caldari ships only use missiles? In which case no again ù they have a large assortment of hybrid turret ships. Other ship missing range \ velocity bonuses, and Amarrs mostly use close range missiles. Typhoon have only 4 launchers, have crappy damage and still stuck within 100km range (aprox). Yes, Caldari have turrets, but point was in FOF missiles. Do caldari have FOF turrets too ??
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:11:00 - [4] Originally by: Tippia Ehmà The following Recon ships have an EWar optimal bonus: + Falcon (+100% from mandatory Cruiser V) + Rook (+100% from mandatory Cruiser V) <--- Combat + Arazu (+20% û +100% from Recon IûV) + Lachesis (+20% û +100% from Recon IûV) <--- Combat + Rapier (+60% û +300% from Recon IûV) + Huginn (+60% û +300% from Recon IûV) <--- Combat Force Recons is not Combat Recons. And now compare primary EW base optimal. Rapier - Stasis 10km -> 40km Arazu - Warp disruptor 24km -> 48km Falcon - ECM 45km(no skill bonuses) -> 162km (skills+ship bonus) making sense ??
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:16:00 - [5] Originally by: El Yatta Stupid idea in a stupid post from a stupid person. That's fairly stupid. Totally agree. Removing ECM - No Balancing ECM - Yes
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:19:00 - [6] Edited by: Tais on 17/12/2008 12:21:47 Originally by: TimMc Honestly, ECM is a very frustrating form of electronic warfare because you cannot do much in battle. But what would you replace it with? For a start remove falcons ECM Optimal range and give him Missile damage bonus. As all Force recons have. + There was idea of scripted ECM. This would solve most of it. Splitted to Jam STR and Optimal. I can live with 28 jammer STR at 30-40km. or 7 at 200
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Research Rachel carriers almost perma-jammed? you ever tried to jam a carrier? even with max falcon, it takes a few cycles to to jam one and in that time it's easy for a carrier to launch fighters at you. and anyway, where the f* was the carriers support? Imagine. Yes. They were perma-jammed. Each Falcon have 2 racial jammers, even if 1-2 cycles missed, others do theyr job. Fighters were chacing our ships all around system. Enemy support was butcherd. Quote: azuru, curse, rapier all have drones, plus turrets to use for offensive weapons (missiles, rails or neuts), plus ew, can scram, web... can all be used solo. 100% damage bonus i can live with that too :D Quote: falcon's only use is to jam... it has 2 lauchers with the dps of a wet fish, if falcon gets touched then i want a falcon solo mobile like the others. Exactly. As i said before. Narrow specialized ship with 3 bonuses. Give him something else. Quote:** but at the end of the day you suck, you failed to use any of the counters to a falcon and now your failwhining on here, seriously, learn to counter stuff without the whine module and you'll see the falcons a one trick pony... granted it does it well when you noobs fail to fit correctly but how is that our fault? I don't have problems then i have falcons in my fleet. OP starter does. But i support ECM balacing \ falcon nerf.
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Kwa Kaine Whats the best counter to a falcon... Another falcon. Wrong. I use ECCM on mine. GL jamming. Quote: The predominant whine for the nano nerf was that the only way to counter nano was with more nano. Do I smell a nerf to ECM coming??? Nano had alot of options to counter except other nano. ECM have 1 - ECCM (and maybe other ECM to counter-jam)
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:46:00 - [9] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Kwa Kaine Whats the best counter to a falcon... Another falcon. Nahà Arazu. Keeps the sucker from escaping tooà Hmm. BTW good option, but still a problem to get in 40-60km range scramble him with latest nano nerf.
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 13:06:00 - [10] Originally by: Tippia Irrelevant, since the FRs and CRs have the same EWar bonuses ù you should know this. Oh sorry, mistyped, they all have, but i see them inferior comparing to Falcon. About 4-5 times inferior. Quote: And now compare primary EW base optimal. Also irrelevant. Your argument was that the Falcon was the only one with a range bonus. You should know this too. Just like you should know the max range of drones. In fact, there are quite a few things about this that you don't seem to know about. Did i mentioned something about drone boats with bonuses?? If you play in EFT, yes all @5 char have 60km. My chars are not all@5 and they have 57km. Base ranege - 20km Scout drone operatiion - +25km (5km per level) EW drone operation - +12km at lvl4 (3km per level) And whis is 57km. And yes. +3km from EW drone op will be 60. Wanna tell me more about things i don't know or understand ??
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 13:15:00 - [11] Originally by: Tippia That's all nice and dandy, but that's not what you said, now is it? You said that "drones attack within 57 at max skills" which is entirely incorrect. With max skills, it's 60km ù 85 in some drone boats ù and since you mentioned max skills, the done boat bonus becomes relevant since it, too, is skill-dependent. But still does it really matters 57 or 60 or 80 then your target sitts @ 200 ??
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 13:25:00 - [12] It takes 2 minutes even less to to set snipers \ falcons at sniping point. Even without fast intys.
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 13:42:00 - [13] Originally by: maralt Originally by: Tais It takes 2 minutes even less to to set snipers \ falcons at sniping point. Even without fast intys. So if you dictate where the battle takes place they either lose the use of all falcons/snipers for 2 mins as he sets up or he tries to fight in close and gets melted in seconds. Mostly yes. And most of fleet battle are long range. But it's quite hard to force a fleet to go in a point you want them to be.
Tais Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 14:38:00 - [14] Originally by: Malcanis And an extra missile point Yes Quote: and better speed, No Falcon is abit slower, but more agile Quote: and a drone bay, like the other Force recons have. Maybe Quote: Oh and a nifty secondary EW bonus too. Don't forget that. You know, those extremely powerful abilities that give the other Recons a reason to engage at closer range. No. Powerfull ECM is good enough for a mid-range combat.null

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