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Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.12.16 23:01:00 - [1] Hi there ;) I'd like to ask how the command ships are performing in QR since all those changes. I'm mostly interested in field command ships so : absolution, nighthawk, astrate, sleipnir. Subject: small gang warfare, 5-10 people with t2 or faction fitting plus implants :) Would be really grateful for a good discussion and brainstorm
Fifi LeFume No Trademark Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.16 23:05:00 - [2] Im about under a week out from flying the astarte myself. Though i have no firsthand experience with them, I would say they're all decent except for the astarte. Pre-QR if you could get by CS's many drawbacks (price, less damage, tank than bs) You would be left with a relatively agile heavy support ship for your fleet. Post-QR, it has many of those same pro/cons, except the astarte is worse off because of the speed changes. Blasters require you to mwd into range, and frankly thats taking all my other blaster ships forever to get into range(i assume its going to be the case with the astarte). The sleipnir has the speed and range, while the abso and nh also has the range. The astarte is the only one that needs an extra 15 seconds to get into the fight.
Last Wolf Umbra Wing	Posted - 2008.12.16 23:15:00 - [3] Because blasters are the only option for an Astarte amirite? A Railguns are more usefull and more situations than blasters for everything above cruisers (and usually only because gallente cruisers have crap PG to fit them) 20km or so with faction anti matter is a solid 500-600 dps for an Astarte. A quick switch of ammo and you can hit out to around 90km reliably. Fit rails and fly it like you would an absolution. It is a great ship. Sure, you won't get 1337 EFT DPS numbers, but at least you'll be able to USE the numbers you do get, instead of MWD around trying to get into range. Besides, I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down
Devil Puppet	Posted - 2008.12.17 00:04:00 - [4] http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?game=14&feature=2524&bhcp=1 Read This Dragy
Aravel Thon	Posted - 2008.12.17 00:25:00 - [5] Originally by: Last Wolf Because blasters are the only option for an Astarte amirite? A Railguns are more usefull and more situations than blasters for everything above cruisers (and usually only because gallente cruisers have crap PG to fit them) 20km or so with faction anti matter is a solid 500-600 dps for an Astarte. A quick switch of ammo and you can hit out to around 90km reliably. Fit rails and fly it like you would an absolution. It is a great ship. Sure, you won't get 1337 EFT DPS numbers, but at least you'll be able to USE the numbers you do get, instead of MWD around trying to get into range. To get 507dps with just rails on an astarte you ned 7x 250mm II's with 2 mag stabs (CN AM loaded). I dont know how you're going to fit any decent sized tank with that. Thats with all level v's too. If you have an effective rail setup, id love to see it
Dracthera	Posted - 2008.12.17 00:38:00 - [6] Edited by: Dracthera on 17/12/2008 00:38:37 NH is fine post-QR.
Linsyn	Posted - 2008.12.17 00:42:00 - [7] I would say for my part the Absolution is more agile
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2008.12.17 00:45:00 - [8] Originally by: Aravel Thon Originally by: Last Wolf Because blasters are the only option for an Astarte amirite? A Railguns are more usefull and more situations than blasters for everything above cruisers (and usually only because gallente cruisers have crap PG to fit them) 20km or so with faction anti matter is a solid 500-600 dps for an Astarte. A quick switch of ammo and you can hit out to around 90km reliably. Fit rails and fly it like you would an absolution. It is a great ship. Sure, you won't get 1337 EFT DPS numbers, but at least you'll be able to USE the numbers you do get, instead of MWD around trying to get into range. To get 507dps with just rails on an astarte you ned 7x 250mm II's with 2 mag stabs (CN AM loaded). I dont know how you're going to fit any decent sized tank with that. Thats with all level v's too. If you have an effective rail setup, id love to see it Did you plug in any of those implant thingies? I think they have some that are a specialty for medium rail guns. My Ferox does alright with crap gun skills and a clone dedicated to medium rails.
Aravel Thon	Posted - 2008.12.17 01:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Schalac Did you plug in any of those implant thingies? I think they have some that are a specialty for medium rail guns. My Ferox does alright with crap gun skills and a clone dedicated to medium rails. Even with the implants, the dps at those range isnt such an issue as is the lack of tank. The rails take up alot of pg and the cookie cutter tank/mid of 2 med reps and mwd/inj cannot fit (unless you use an ACR)
BiggestT Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.12.17 01:10:00 - [10] Edited by: BiggestT on 17/12/2008 01:11:01 Perfromance wise, command ships are pretty good post qr. My only issue is cost: Being more expensive than bs's but not insurable, kinda only catering for the rich, which sux imo (I have 20 mill ); i barely ever fly mine coz i fear ill lose it.. Considering tier 2 bc's can do nearly fill the job of a field command, but for cheaper, theres a lack of incentive to fly them... EVE history t2 precisions
ViperVenom Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.17 01:48:00 - [11] Its not that.. But even B4 the QR change Field Command ship --Tempest... There was little reason to buy a Field Cmdship..Due to Cost//whats better? A Pest is bigger slower yet i can build one and insure it...I look at a cost to owner ship like a rupture>--Muninn..I hope you understand my point im making. Field to 2nd Tier BC suc. And some Hac suc to the 2nd tiers.. But im ok with how it is.. A change nope just let the game play out and let the noobs fly fieldcmds ships to me and my friends to ****. Plus now in Eve i see even less missleboats... Lets nerf TP's --Yarring in a system near you--
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2008.12.17 02:09:00 - [12] Originally by: ViperVenom Its not that.. But even B4 the QR change Field Command ship --Tempest... There was little reason to buy a Field Cmdship..Due to Cost//whats better? A Pest is bigger slower yet i can build one and insure it...I look at a cost to owner ship like a rupture>--Muninn..I hope you understand my point im making. Field to 2nd Tier BC suc. And some Hac suc to the 2nd tiers.. But im ok with how it is.. A change nope just let the game play out and let the noobs fly fieldcmds ships to me and my friends to ****. Plus now in Eve i see even less missleboats... Lets nerf TP's What? Here I was always thinking that command ships where best at doing what they were designed to do. Awesome tank, little bit of spank and godly fleet command skills to boost your entire fleet with. I mean that is the point of them right.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.12.17 02:21:00 - [13] Originally by: Schalac Here I was always thinking that command ships where best at doing what they were designed to do. Awesome tank, little bit of spank and godly fleet command skills to boost your entire fleet with. I mean that is the point of them right. Aside from the Sleip, none of the Field CS really have the fittings to be able to carry a gang link, unless you gimp your tank or your gank.
Endless Subversion The Accursed	Posted - 2008.12.17 03:13:00 - [14] Any nerf(s) to bs are boosts to commands and QR did nothing but put the hurt on small gang BS. I'd say they're a much MORE appealing gang option in today's pvp world. So much so that for the first time ever I'm actually considering getting into one. Well, that or a domi ;p.
BiggestT Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.12.17 04:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Endless Subversion Any nerf(s) to bs are boosts to commands and QR did nothing but put the hurt on small gang BS. I'd say they're a much MORE appealing gang option in today's pvp world. So much so that for the first time ever I'm actually considering getting into one. Well, that or a domi ;p. Yeah, you shld still use the domi :P I myself prefer a fully insured rokh that costs the same as the nh, but has huge range, better dps and costs me far less to replace. EVE history t2 precisions
Arazel Chainfire Arazel Industrial Holdings Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.17 04:56:00 - [16] Some Astarte fits Highs 7 neutron blaster 2's Mids 10mn mwd warp disruptor 2 fleeting web (or t2) small cap booster 2 (200's) Lows 2 magstab 2's 1 800mm plate 2 eanm 2's 1 DCU 2 Rigs 2 trimark 2's Drones 5 hammerhead 2's This would basically be a little copy of my blasterthron. With navy antimatter loaded its 780dps, with 2.3optimal and 9.4falloff. With null loaded its 621dps with 5.6optimal and 12km falloff. This is with all lvl 5 skills (I have that except I have CS lvl 3 and blaster spec 4). Probably not the best use for a ship that expensive though, as it only has 66k effective hp's. So, onto fit 2 - duel rep. Highs 3 Neutron 2's 4 ion 2's Mids 10mn mwd medium cap booster 2 disruptor 2 t2 webber Lows 2 MAR 2 2 EANM 2 1 energized reactive 2 1 DCU 2 Rigs 2 aux. nano pumps Drones 5 hammerhead 2's This one has all resists above 70 (ex. lowest at 72), and gets a 600dps active tank, with 50k effective hps. It also produces 670dps with navy antimatter and all lvl 5 skills, and all fits with AWU 5. Next, a rail fit. Highs 7 200mm rails Mids 10mn mwd medium cap booster 2 disruptor 2 fleeting web lows 2 MAR 2 2 EANM 2 1 DCU 2 1 magstab 2 Rigs 1 ACR 1 Hybrid locus coordinator (can switch out for damage or ROF if desired) Drones 5 hammerhead 2's This fit, with navy antimatter has 560dps and a range of 16km. With spike, it has a range of 56km, and either ammo leaves it with 19km falloff. In this case, the web is there as a defensive measure - you can, if you decide you don't want it, drop it for another mod of your choice. A meta 4 tracking disruptor will fit without a problem. Or if you don't want the ancillary current router, you can drop medium cap booster 2 and the hybrid weapon rig for a meta 4 cap booster and use a 3% grid implant. Then it would be up to you what you put in your two rig slots. Last fit, rail without armor reps Highs 7 250mm 2's Mids 10mn mwd small cap booster 2 disruptor 2 fleeting webber Lows 3 magstab 2's 1 DCU 2 2 EANM 2's Rigs 2 hybrid locus coordinators Drones 5 hammerhead 2's This fit gives 726dps at 23km, with 23km falloff. You do however need to drop something to named, be it the DCU or an eanm, or use a cpu implant because this fit is 4 over on CPU. If you're willing to drop the webber for a sensor booster, you can also hit out with an 84km optimal with spike. Lastly, you can make the rigs whatever you want - without a powergrid implant however, there isn't enough grid to fit an 800 or 1600mm plate. 2 ACR's gives enough pg for a 1600mm plate however, which boosts effective hp's up to 65k. 2 trimarks, 3% grid and an 800mm plate match that. Loosing 1 magstab does drop dps down to 663 however. Of the fits I gave, I would most likely use my first one. I however also fly full t2 fitted and rigged blasterthrons solo... so if you're looking for the most economical fit, you probably want to talk to someone else. However, this should give you a few ideas for where to start if you want to use an astarte. As for the other commands... I hear the absolution is great, and some people like the slepnir. I can't say how they perform though as I don't fly them. -Arazel Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.
E Vile	Posted - 2008.12.17 05:47:00 - [17] Edited by: E Vile on 17/12/2008 05:52:45 For the Astarte Nano pumps slow your speed and are in direct conflict with the idea of a speedy blaster boat. I go with 1 ccc rig, and 1 energy grid rig so I can fit 7 Neutrons for more dmg. I find a afturburner active tanked Nighthawk works. It still however needs 1 extra launcher IMO. The Nighthawk does seem to be the next LVL 4 mission FOTM considering the prices have skyrocketed to almost double all other field commands. Afturburners reduce the damage taken. Personally I think all field commands will do good in pvp being they do BS dmg and have smaller sigs, so BS will not be doing full damage (afturburner + smaller sig) Sig making more of a difference IMO gave Command ships a tank boost vs BS. As for speeds with an AB I go roughly 450m/s and 570m/s Overloaded in an Astarte and 10m/s slower in the Nighthawk (roughly). That's pretty fast considering if you fit a scram you can shut the enemy MWD down and suddenly have the advantage. AB use almost no cap, and have no cap penalties and can't be shut off by scrams.
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.12.17 07:05:00 - [18] Edited by: Dragy on 17/12/2008 07:12:49 Originally by: Devil Puppet http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?game=14&feature=2524&bhcp=1 Read This Dragy not working Basicly i was flying a sleipnir until i died to 2 harbs + a falcon. I understand that a command ship is not a pwnmobile, but then again i'd like to pick the one that performs the best. Now i know that Sleipnir has good tank and very good damage. Although i think that tanking is more important nowadays than damage. So thinkin about absolution or a nighthawk. The last one wont make it 'cause its only good for pve, for anything else its too slow. So or astrate with electrons and quite a nice tank or absolution with hell of a tank and the same dps. That's what i'm thinking.
Soporo Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.17 07:29:00 - [19] Edited by: Soporo on 17/12/2008 07:30:51 Originally by: Dracthera Edited by: Dracthera on 17/12/2008 00:38:37 NH is fine post-QR. Except for it's microscopic Grid, uber slowness and inability to do the task designed for it while attempting to have even moderate dps, much less decent buffer. Best to look elsewhere for a field command ship.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.12.17 08:06:00 - [20] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 17/12/2008 08:08:33 Absolution: still good, though expensive. Near-battleship damage with medium pulse tracking is awesome. Only drawbacks are that it's an armor tanker, and CPU gets tight really fast. Astarte: get a Brutix. An expensive, uninsurable ship that has to fight within web/scram range is a bad idea unless you have so much money you don't know what to do with it all. A slight performance advantage over the Brutix is just not enough to justify the huge cost increase. Sleipnir: still good. It's not as fast as it used to be, but the Sleipnir was never a true speed tanker anyway. The active tank bonus is weak for gang fights, but it should be a good solo ship if you can afford it. Nighthawk: still crippled by fitting problems. In theory, it would be an awesome ship, if it had about 300 more grid and a 7th launcher (+ 8th high for the gang mod), but it's impossible to get a useful fit. Oh, and thanks to its amazing mission performance, rich carebears have spiked the price so high that even if it did get a grid boost, it would be very hard to justify flying it over a Drake. Oh, and Gallente railboats suck. Get a laser ship and do it right, if you want to fly a midrange ship. -----------
nakKEDK Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.12.17 09:15:00 - [21] absolution: more dps, more tank than astarte. (at range) sleipnir is also good but have no experience in it. k
fivetide humidyear Gallente EXCESS10N	Posted - 2008.12.17 11:13:00 - [22] ganglinked absolution that doesn't gimp your tank too much: 1x ganglink of your choice 7x heavy pulse II (scorch loaded, AN MF carried) 10 Mn MWD II faint warp prohibitor small cap booster II (with 200's) 3x Heat Sink II 2x amarr navy EANM 1x 1600mm RT plate 1x IFFA ancillary current router trimark 5x warrior II nice ship in a small gang, with lg slaves it's over 120k ehp and lots of dps. drop the point for a web or eccm if gang has tacklers, melt stuff. sleipnir is still good if not slightly boosted as active tanks seem to be a bit better, astarte is still a blaster ship therefore suboptimal and nighthawk still needs pg and someway of being better than a drake.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.12.17 11:20:00 - [23] Originally by: Soporo Edited by: Soporo on 17/12/2008 07:30:51 Originally by: Dracthera Edited by: Dracthera on 17/12/2008 00:38:37 NH is fine post-QR. Except for it's microscopic Grid, uber slowness and inability to do the task designed for it while attempting to have even moderate dps, much less decent buffer. Best to look elsewhere for a field command ship. Yeah. Although the useless precision bonus was changed to a (slightly) useful explosion velocity one, it still has crippling PG problems. The CSM put this issue to CCP a while back, I'm disappointed that we've heard nothing back at all. Even a "No, working as intended, NH PG is perfectly adequate for AFKing L4s" would at least provide some closure...
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.12.17 11:38:00 - [24] Actually, ships accelerate much better now because of the agility boosts, the Astarte will be in range of its guns faster. Don't forget,you do have other ammo then antimatter aswell. Astarte is a awesome ship. /Riv
Tronjay Caldari THE INSURGENCY DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.12.17 11:58:00 - [25] Although I fly a NH, I would rather sit in an Absolution (Atm Amarr is the way to go untill CCP changes that again lol)
Crellion Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:08:00 - [26] I like the Astarte all shades of fine and it has given me (in the distant past) some of my best solo pvp fun... However I believe that since the nerf of nanoBS brought about nanoeverything it has become useless with a blaster fit.This did not change with QR in any positive way. As for those that post rail set ups: - they look good on paper - then you check the tracking of 250 rails at 20kms and cry The rail Astarte is NOT an alternative of he Scorch Abso because of tracking plain and simple (also worse tank in such fits). If you are in a gang with Rapiers - Huggins then perhaps... I'd rather use a 70mill Eagle with mwd to keep range or missleboats for that role... Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Delichon The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:27:00 - [27] Edited by: Delichon on 17/12/2008 12:30:16 Nighthawk looks the best of commands to me atm. Reason - it is capable of carrying the ganglink and "out-of-disruptor range" weapons at the same time. And rage missiles have been boosted recently. And very limited reliance on drone damage, which is always plus in my book. Modern 0.0 roaming gangs tend to run with sniper-hacs and dictors. You tackle with stuff, that is too small to kill, and you hit with stuff that is too far away to be tackled (and so can warp out at will). Nighthawk fits perfectly in this paradigm - rage heavies, ganglink, buffer, very nice agility (fit with agility rigs for 5 seconds align time). Abso is too heavy, too close range with pulses (alternatively - it has to scale down to focused beams to fit gang link) and too reliant on drone damage for that. Same goes for rail Astarte and Sleipnir is completely out of this paradigm. Sleip is for micro gangs and gasp solo("Falconalt" type of solo preferrably). Flame away :) P.S. Forgot one major disadvantage of Abso - scorches are pants against T2 minnie ships. Vaga has like 4 times more EHP against scorches than against kinetik. ------------------------------------------ "Russian is an unusual language if you're not used to it. It is like speaking to angry aliens from the planet of Murder or something" Nick Breckon
fkingfurious	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:36:00 - [28] Originally by: Delichon Edited by: Delichon on 17/12/2008 12:30:16 Nighthawk looks the best of commands to me atm. Reason - it is capable of carrying the ganglink and "out-of-disruptor range" weapons at the same time. And rage missiles have been boosted recently. And very limited reliance on drone damage, which is always plus in my book. Modern 0.0 roaming gangs tend to run with sniper-hacs and dictors. You tackle with stuff, that is too small to kill, and you hit with stuff that is too far away to be tackled (and so can warp out at will). Nighthawk fits perfectly in this paradigm - rage heavies, ganglink, buffer, very nice agility (fit with agility rigs for 5 seconds align time). Abso is too heavy, too close range with pulses (alternatively - it has to scale down to focused beams to fit gang link) and too reliant on drone damage for that. Same goes for rail Astarte and Sleipnir is completely out of this paradigm. Sleip is for micro gangs and gasp solo("Falconalt" type of solo preferrably). Flame away :) P.S. Forgot one major disadvantage of Abso - scorches are pants against T2 minnie ships. Vaga has like 4 times more EHP against scorches than against kinetik. OHNOES, an Ares travelled 20KM and overloaded it's Warp Disrupter and now I'm tackled and am about to become a comedy killmail. And the Absolution is ****ing awesome btw.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:58:00 - [29] Edited by: techzer0 on 17/12/2008 13:01:59 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Nighthawk: still crippled by fitting problems. In theory, it would be an awesome ship, if it had about 300 more grid and a 7th launcher (+ 8th high for the gang mod), but it's impossible to get a useful fit. Oh, and thanks to its amazing mission performance, rich carebears have spiked the price so high that even if it did get a grid boost, it would be very hard to justify flying it over a Drake. Oh merin... Ok, actually not gonna troll anything but the Nighthawk description... lol. I don't see the crippling power issues everyone talks so much about, if you try and run all HAMs and a Buffer it could be a problem, but then... buffer tanking in general is a huge problem which needs to be addressed rather than adapted to. (As a gankathron pilot, that's sacrilege to say... I know) I'd say at most the Nighthawk needs it 7th launcher to make it more worth it than a Drake, and an extra 200pg to fit it with. PG for an XL booster like a sleipnir has would be amazing, but then.. with a full passive 1000+ DPS tank, the nighthawk is already kinda scary. Of course, you can only get over 1000 DPS tank on it if that is all you fit it for, but... hey w/e, it's forums and EFT warfare! Notice I don't mention damage... NH damage blows Originally by: Delichon P.S. Forgot one major disadvantage of Abso - scorches are pants against T2 minnie ships. Vaga has like 4 times more EHP against scorches than against kinetik. I'm not even gonna flame the rest of your post. I'll just say I've never ran into a Abso that couldn't do enough damage fast enough to hurt my Vagas shields very very bad. You can't do damage when MWD'ing at 6km/s COUGH 3km/s now ------------ Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.12.17 13:31:00 - [30] so in the end after taking consideration of fact that amarr is in favour of ccp and also that they rather small specialized ships rather than big bs's, the Absolution is he best way to go, aye ? Then i think that i made my choice

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