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Rho'varo
Minmatar
Diversified Operational Services
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Posted - 2008.12.18 23:02:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: Markus De'Helude
... I thought it was waffles?
It is waffles, bad memory I guess. I was focusing on the maple syrup part more than anything. Since you know increased demand for tasty breakfast pastries means more demand on syrup.
Maple syrup is awesome, but there was nothing "maple" about the syrup in the clip either, as it turned out. Apparently there's a lot of non-maple syrup around.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.19 03:21:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Rho'varo
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: Markus De'Helude
... I thought it was waffles?
It is waffles, bad memory I guess. I was focusing on the maple syrup part more than anything. Since you know increased demand for tasty breakfast pastries means more demand on syrup.
Maple syrup is awesome, but there was nothing "maple" about the syrup in the clip either, as it turned out. Apparently there's a lot of non-maple syrup around.
Now you're just trying to start something so you can short maple syrup  |
Wishdokkta CEO
Tilt Station
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Posted - 2008.12.19 10:27:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Wishdokkta CEO on 19/12/2008 10:27:37
Put me down for 100 million.
I do not require an audit, retinal scan, stool sample, forum rep showered in glory and past triumphs, personal ID card, history of past relationships, birth certificate, driving license, dental records, average time spent in space, hair folical count or any other form of security.
If I loose 100mill taking a punt on someone who has presented themselves well, made an effort and seems articulate and provides thought-out arguments then call it a donation.
I would be grateful of an in-game mail 720, I generally tend to only browse the forums occasionally and log on even less frequently, contact me there if this goes ahead, or even if it doesnt. 
Oh and just a note about the "veterans" on this forum. I am sure you are all real nice people in RL but from having been involved on this forum the short time I have (been playing eve since inception) you remind me of pantomime dames who strut around back stage looking down your noses at newer folk, faning yourselves with your outrageous wigs and heavy white makeup, putting the world to rights and expecting instant repect for your comments and opinions. Like I say, no offense, I dont know any of you but that is the image I have in my head when I read your terrified and self-righteous screams of "SCAM" 
This is not real life and it isnt real money and should not be treated in the same way - I am a real life, proper qualified auditor, not a pretend one dealing with pretend money, and actual qualified auditor and there is not this much nay-say and pesimism in the industry I have served for a decade dealing with real money!!
Though your OPINIONS may hold weight due to your experience in EVE economics that is all they are - opinions. I find your arrogance leaves a nasty taste in my mouth and you really should allow people to take their own risks and make up there own minds rather than clouding their judgement with your negative comments.
Anyway, rant over. I will invest. At the end of the day, its the same with ANY investment wether it be fake ISK or real pounds - dont invest what you cant afford to lose.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Merry christmas.
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HawkBunny
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Posted - 2008.12.19 11:18:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Wishdokkta CEO
Edited by: Wishdokkta CEO on 19/12/2008 10:27:37
Put me down for 100 million.
I do not require an audit, retinal scan, stool sample, forum rep showered in glory and past triumphs, personal ID card, history of past relationships, birth certificate, driving license, dental records, average time spent in space, hair folical count or any other form of security.
If I loose 100mill taking a punt on someone who has presented themselves well, made an effort and seems articulate and provides thought-out arguments then call it a donation.
I would be grateful of an in-game mail 720, I generally tend to only browse the forums occasionally and log on even less frequently, contact me there if this goes ahead, or even if it doesnt.
Oh and just a note about the "veterans" on this forum. I am sure you are all real nice people in RL but from having been involved on this forum the short time I have (been playing eve since inception) you remind me of pantomime dames who strut around back stage looking down your noses at newer folk, faning yourselves with your outrageous wigs and heavy white makeup, putting the world to rights and expecting instant repect for your comments and opinions. Like I say, no offense, I dont know any of you but that is the image I have in my head when I read your terrified and self-righteous screams of "SCAM"
This is not real life and it isnt real money and should not be treated in the same way - I am a real life, proper qualified auditor, not a pretend one dealing with pretend money, and actual qualified auditor and there is not this much nay-say and pesimism in the industry I have served for a decade dealing with real money!!
Though your OPINIONS may hold weight due to your experience in EVE economics that is all they are - opinions. I find your arrogance leaves a nasty taste in my mouth and you really should allow people to take their own risks and make up there own minds rather than clouding their judgement with your negative comments.
Anyway, rant over. I will invest. At the end of the day, its the same with ANY investment wether it be fake ISK or real pounds - dont invest what you cant afford to lose.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Merry christmas.
Thank you u just said what i been wanting to rant all day. 
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Heikki
Gallente
Wreckless Abandon
G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.12.19 11:19:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Wishdokkta CEO
you really should allow people to take their own risks and make up there own minds rather than clouding their judgement with your negative comments
Tsk tsk, trying to cloud our minds about the advise of altruistic veterans with yout negative comments..
Quote:
ANY investment wether it be fake ISK or real pounds - dont invest what you cant afford to lose
Good you're RL auditor and not an professional invester. In RL they at least give a good try in estimating risk vs reward ratios (and as shown recently, have risks of failing too).
-Lasse
also wondering on the on topic question "Why not allow an audit?"
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Andres Talas
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Posted - 2008.12.19 11:24:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Heikki
Originally by: Wishdokkta CEO
you really should allow people to take their own risks and make up there own minds rather than clouding their judgement with your negative comments
Tsk tsk, trying to cloud our minds about the advise of altruistic veterans with yout negative comments..
Quote:
ANY investment wether it be fake ISK or real pounds - dont invest what you cant afford to lose
Good you're RL auditor and not an professional invester. In RL they at least give a good try in estimating risk vs reward ratios (and as shown recently, have risks of failing too).
-Lasse
also wondering on the on topic question "Why not allow an audit?"
*giggle* glad to see you've been paying attention. Would you like to buy some ABS shares ? I will sell them to you for an 80% discount at what they were trading at in January.
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HawkBunny
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Posted - 2008.12.19 11:27:00 -
[67]
even if he does not give a audit i am still willing to invest 20mill with him. Mainly just to show u that he wont run with the money.
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Martinus Crimson
PVP Freelancers inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.19 11:28:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Wishdokkta CEO
Edited by: Wishdokkta CEO on 19/12/2008 10:27:37
Put me down for 100 million.
I do not require an audit, retinal scan, stool sample, forum rep showered in glory and past triumphs, personal ID card, history of past relationships, birth certificate, driving license, dental records, average time spent in space, hair folical count or any other form of security.
If I loose 100mill taking a punt on someone who has presented themselves well, made an effort and seems articulate and provides thought-out arguments then call it a donation.
I would be grateful of an in-game mail 720, I generally tend to only browse the forums occasionally and log on even less frequently, contact me there if this goes ahead, or even if it doesnt.
Oh and just a note about the "veterans" on this forum. I am sure you are all real nice people in RL but from having been involved on this forum the short time I have (been playing eve since inception) you remind me of pantomime dames who strut around back stage looking down your noses at newer folk, faning yourselves with your outrageous wigs and heavy white makeup, putting the world to rights and expecting instant repect for your comments and opinions. Like I say, no offense, I dont know any of you but that is the image I have in my head when I read your terrified and self-righteous screams of "SCAM"
This is not real life and it isnt real money and should not be treated in the same way - I am a real life, proper qualified auditor, not a pretend one dealing with pretend money, and actual qualified auditor and there is not this much nay-say and pesimism in the industry I have served for a decade dealing with real money!!
Though your OPINIONS may hold weight due to your experience in EVE economics that is all they are - opinions. I find your arrogance leaves a nasty taste in my mouth and you really should allow people to take their own risks and make up there own minds rather than clouding their judgement with your negative comments.
Anyway, rant over. I will invest. At the end of the day, its the same with ANY investment wether it be fake ISK or real pounds - dont invest what you cant afford to lose.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Merry christmas.
What he said, i take more risk daily (isk wise) manipulating the market.
Contact me ingame today and i'll buy whatever ammount of bonds you have left.
-----------------
^^ Now i got my own exotic dancers, thnx Chribba |
Wishdokkta CEO
Tilt Station
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 12:01:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Heikki
Originally by: Wishdokkta CEO
you really should allow people to take their own risks and make up there own minds rather than clouding their judgement with your negative comments
Tsk tsk, trying to cloud our minds about the advise of altruistic veterans with yout negative comments..
Yes, I see what you did there. Very clever. I dont have an issue with the advise of auditors or veterans, it is the way in which it is presented that I have a problem with.
Originally by: Heikki
Originally by: Wishdokkta CEO
ANY investment wether it be fake ISK or real pounds - dont invest what you cant afford to lose
Good you're RL auditor and not an professional invester. In RL they at least give a good try in estimating risk vs reward ratios (and as shown recently, have risks of failing too).
Yes they do try believe me!! The work that auditors do here in EVE is excellent by the way, I wasnt having a pop at them. I am taking issue with the primadonna veterans who impose their opinions. Auditors are generally appointed so there opinions are a given. And I could never be an RL professional investor, I dont have the money to lose!!
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Ms Sade
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Posted - 2008.12.19 16:36:00 -
[70]
720, I would appreciate you contact me in game regarding this.
I am still happy to make the investment (face it I've lost more when drunk to scammers, so if it goes pete tong I'll only hunt you down with my uber battle badger (cause I know you'll have lots of loot)).
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720
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Posted - 2008.12.19 20:05:00 -
[71]
Wishdokkta and HawkBunny - Thank you for your perspectives. I was honestly shocked at the response I received. I felt I explained my reasons for non disclosure pretty clearly in an attempt to be forthright and was surprised at the reaction.
It's one thing to decline an investment, it is another to attack a person for proposing it.
Originally by: Ricdics
It's his constant refusal that leads me to believe he has something to hide, or something he doesn't want people knowing so my decision is made.
In case anyone else missed it, I HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE. I really am not sure how much more clear to make that. I feel like I have stated that several times in this thread and in the offering originally, and I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it. I am hiding something that could be revealed in an audit that I am not authorized to reveal.
See Section 5 where I state "5. Auditing
Originally by: 720
...Having said that, I will need to decline having an audit performed for reasons I am unable to disclose at this time.
Wishdokkta, Martinus Crimson and Ms Sade - I will be contacting you both in game this evening as per your requests.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.12.19 20:24:00 -
[72]
the auditors that were referred for you would never let anyone know anything until you scammed
so you are either saying that people that have a better reputation than you can not be trusted or that you will scam so the information you are trying to hide will be revealed
which one is it?
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
720
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 21:16:00 -
[73]
Originally by: SiJira
the auditors that were referred for you would never let anyone know anything until you scammed
so you are either saying that people that have a better reputation than you can not be trusted or that you will scam so the information you are trying to hide will be revealed
which one is it?
I appreciate you framing the question as an either or situation, my favorite of which is, does you mother know you are a monkey? Yes she knows you are a monkey or no, she doesn't know you are a monkey, which one is it?
In this case it is neither of your proposed situations but rather a third.
1) I have given my word to a third party that certain information would not be disclosed.
2) An audit might turn up that information to a third party.
3) Therefore, I can't reveal that information to a third party.
Despite your implied accusation, I am not claiming that auditors would reveal any information or that they are not reputable. Rather, I am stating as clearly as I possibly can, that I would be breaking the trust placed in me by allowing a third party audit. I don't think that concept is to difficult to manage. Do not invest in this Bond if this is an insurmountable barrier to your confidence.
(As a side note, I can't believe how many times I've read "trust no one", and yet there is a implied infallibility to the auditors. Don't get me wrong, if things were otherwise I would certainly be submitting to an audit, if only so I don't have to repeat myself, still it seems like a bit of a juxtaposition to me.)
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.12.19 21:26:00 -
[74]
and have you asked this person that trusts you not to reveal your main or are you just assuming they want to prevent you from using your best resource?
its not about trusting the auditors its about seeing what they have been able to get their hands on in the past and the likelihood of them running away with less at a later time
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Rho'varo
Minmatar
Diversified Operational Services
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 23:10:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Wishdokkta CEO
A note about the "veterans" on this forum. [...]
This is not real life and it isn't real money and should not be treated in the same way.
You really should allow people to take their own risks and make up there own minds rather than clouding their judgement with your negative comments.
Generally
I'm sure I don't qualify as a "Market Discussions veteran" myself, and I don't claim to comment on anyone else's behalf. I tend to agree that it isn't particularly helpful to tell people what they should or shouldn't do.
For myself, I sometimes enjoy reviewing investment opportunities that show up in Market Discussions, and I try to keep my input to facts and observations, rather than opinion (though I'm sure I've made an inadvertent slip from time to time).
I try to avoid telling people what they should do with their own ISK, or how they should make decisions about investing. Indeed, even where I did help to expose a subsequently-self-admitted scam, I didn't bandy about any accusations or try to tell people what to do.
Seeing careful evaluation of investment opportunities can be helpful both for investors and issuers. It's understandable that a rich and experienced investor such as yourself doesn't see much benefit in such evaluations, but not everyone has the same mound of ISK or familiarity with the issues involved.
This Offering
In the case of the OP's offering, the total amount being raised may be relatively small, but (i) there have been scams of this size in the past, (ii) there are investors for whom 100 million ISK is a big deal, and (iii) the results of this offering might be used in putative support of a future offering.
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3c509
Minmatar
Valklear Guard
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Posted - 2008.12.20 06:40:00 -
[76]
720,
As per our in game conversation I'd like to reserve 200M in bonds.
Thank you.
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Alija de'Chiarr
CF Capitalists Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.20 12:31:00 -
[77]
Controversial or not, I'm willing to give it a shot. Please reserve a 200 M. spot for me.
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Ms Sade
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Posted - 2009.01.21 14:00:00 -
[78]
Sorry everyone for necroing this thread; but I believe we're about 30 days into the bond and I wandered how 720 was doing. |
Dawts
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.01.21 15:03:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Ms Sade
Sorry everyone for necroing this thread; but I believe we're about 30 days into the bond and I wandered how 720 was doing.
You should have received your first payment yesterday according to his OP. |
720
|
Posted - 2009.01.21 16:14:00 -
[80]
reserved |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.21 16:24:00 -
[81]
Originally by: 720
reserved
reserved?
You either paid (or will pay) your bond installment or won't pay it.
So it becomes a simple are you going to pay or are you a scammer? Don't need to reserve a post to talk about it! |
nether void
Caldari
Shrapnel Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.21 16:32:00 -
[82]
Originally by: 720
reserved
Reserved for response.
--------------------
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.21 16:36:00 -
[83]
Originally by: nether void
Originally by: 720
reserved
Reserved for response.
or he could just say money is on the way, or I fooled you all (or something like it).
Not to difficult to write 1 line is it
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Wishdokkta CEO
Tilt Station
|
Posted - 2009.01.21 17:47:00 -
[84]
Originally by: cosmoray
Originally by: nether void
Originally by: 720
reserved
Reserved for response.
or he could just say money is on the way, or I fooled you all (or something like it).
Not to difficult to write 1 line is it
Sigh.
Dont you have a dress rehearsal to get to?
Received 720, many thanks. |
3c509
Minmatar
Valklear Guard
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Posted - 2009.01.21 18:11:00 -
[85]
Received my 48M ISK payment.
Thank you. |
Dawts
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.01.21 21:38:00 -
[86]
When can we expect you to ask for an expansion?
|
720
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 01:24:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Dawts
When can we expect you to ask for an expansion?
Ha! Well to be honest friend I have this bridge, now it's hardly been used...
No expansion here. 1B is plenty for me to work with, a larger amount to manage than I expected really but all is well. Payouts will be ready as stated again barring a late night rendezvous.
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Astarte Nosferatu
Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation
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Posted - 2009.01.22 10:42:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Dawts
When can we expect you to ask for an expansion?
This isn't a witch hunt you know .
Yes, I'm selling some of my shares |
Dawts
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 15:08:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Dawts on 22/01/2009 15:10:56
Originally by: 720
Originally by: Dawts
When can we expect you to ask for an expansion?
Ha! Well to be honest friend I have this bridge, now it's hardly been used...
No expansion here. 1B is plenty for me to work with, a larger amount to manage than I expected really but all is well. Payouts will be ready as stated again barring a late night rendezvous.
I don't mean to be a witch hunter and I'm glad everyone got paid, but I just don't feel right about this.
This post I quoted is just another one that doesn't sit well with me. People said they have already been paid, but from what I'm understanding he has yet to pay them.
I don't know why but 3c509's short posting history makes me think he is an alt vouching for 720, but like I said if everyone gets paid then job well done.
I'm just letting my concerns be heard..... I don't know who would want to hear them though lol
edit: I apologize if I refer to anyone as a "he" if they aren't in fact a male. Bad habit, besides women don't play games on the internetz  |
Tadesae
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 16:03:00 -
[90]
Nobody should invest in an unaudited IPO. This coming from a relatively new player.
It has nothing to do with being able to afford the isk if it turns out to be a scam. It has to do with devaluing a system veteran players have put in place desingned to make IPO's and like investments safer and discourage the Scammers. Investing in an unaudited IPO is encouragement to the scammer who's reading this now planning the next IPO. It really makes no difference if you all get paid or not. You've made IPO's that much more dangerous by not demanding an audit.
This kind of thing actually happens in real life too. In real life however, the scammers prey on the old and stupid. In Eve, too many think of ISK as play money which it is but.... I'd prefer a safe environment to invest my play money in. All the hard work put in by veterans to legitimise markets in EVE should be embraced by the player base for the enjoyment of all.
Just my humble opinion.
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