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Dani Shepard
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Posted - 2008.12.17 15:00:00 -
[1]
The Issue,
The cost of upgrading your clone can become pvp prohibitive depending on the amount of skill points you have. Recently I ran missions to buy a chunk of ships and modules to allow me to pvp. Due to the prohibitive nature of the cost of upgrading my clone I had to mission run twice as long to ensure I have enough isk every time I get podded in the ships that I bought. Considering that I bought a lot of T1 frigates and cruisers to play around in, the cost of my pod will exceed the cost of my ships and modules by 4 times the amount, this is very discouraging to say the least.
Losing a pod is not skill based. Once in your pod you have no options except warp. Locking a pod has to be done very fast since they basically instawarp and have small signature radius'. That being said, if you are podded after a fight and outside of any bubbles then it usually boils down to the connection between you and your oponent to the server (if you have ever popped a ship and the pod just sits there while you are able to lock it in a cruiser without sensor boosters this is generally what is happening and you can bet that on your opponents screen he is still waiting to see his pod). The faster guy wins.
Getting podded during pvp is common. The cost of upgrading your clone to retain your skill points is relatively low unless you have made it to the 30-40mil skill point bracket and above. At that point you are now paying 4.7mil or more to upgrade your clone everytime you are podded. After the changes implemented in QR it is definitely more complex to try and tackle someone whom does not want to be tackled, even cruiser size ships using cold warps (I am speaking from a 0.0 point of view). So, bubbles have become the norm to catch potential fights. When bubbles are deployed and you lose you will be podded, plain and simple. So basically lose a fight in 0.0 and you will be podded. The increasing charges for upgrading your clones also assumes that you have managed to make more money now that you have played the game longer, which I assure you is not the case.
I like the extra risk of being able to lose skill points and the extra buttons you have to remember to hit. But seeing that losing a pod happens much more frequently due to bubbles in 0.0, it is not a skill based issue to lose your pod, it takes away from high skilled players from jumping in cheap ships and going out to have fun, can get prohibitively expensive, and the skills you had you already earned by time and money sunk into EVE....lessenging the amounts to upgrade your clone would encourage pvp, especially for high skill point players, and overall lessen the burden of pvp'ing in 0.0 in general logistics wise. We could always use a few more targets in 0.0 not less.
My suggestion is to greatly reduce it to be in line with changing clone stations or other NPC costs. Possibly cap it out at 5mil for the most extreme skilled point player but definitely keep it in place for another risk factor in EVE.
Thank You and I hope this is seriously considered.
Dani
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Yolo
Caldari
Dark Knights of Deneb
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Posted - 2008.12.17 15:57:00 -
[2]
You complain about what, 5-10m for a pod...
Thats 1 hour of NPC hunting in 0.0 ...
You did say you pvp in 0.0 so I assume you live there.
if you dont like losing your pod.
A: improve your playing style to where you win instead of lose.
B: pvp in lowsec where bubbles cannot be deployed.
C: move to empire.
Field what you can afford to lose.
Then when you lose it, you already wrote it off as lost to start with.
So was it really a loss?
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Straight Chillen
Gallente
Solar Wind
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Posted - 2008.12.17 18:02:00 -
[3]
i think the older players who actually have to shell out a large chunk of change have more to ***** about then you. 4 mil is nothing for a clone. If you cant afford it you shouldnt be pvping in the first place.
Also your argument is flawed, as i fly with plenty of pilots that have well over 80m+ sp's, and they are more then happy to go out and risk their pods. I dont think this will do anything to encourage combat, as their are people who will fight and people who wont, cost usually isnt the factor, its play style.
If anything you will be making dieing less meaningfull.
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Dani Shepard
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Posted - 2008.12.24 19:05:00 -
[4]
If you are going to take the time to reply you should take the time to read to post. This is not a *****fest, it is only a suggestion that I think would assist in pvp in general. I did not complain about how much I pay, in fact I never stated how much I pay for upgrading my clone. I never stated that I don't like losing my pod either.....again this is a suggestion please read the post. But your suggestions support my point, If the clone cost options don't change I would be forced not to pvp WHICH DOES NOT SUPPORT PVP AND THAT IS THE REASON FOR THE POST IN THE FIRST PLACE.
I have known 2 players whom stopped playing because their clones were far exceeding any other cost to pvp, and that is the reason they played EVE. I am shortly coming into another bracket with my skillpoints and I think I will be in the same position. I play EVE to pvp and a few other minor reasons so if I find myself spending 10 times the time trying to get isk for my clone than my ships and modules then I will be forced to reconsider if it is worth playing EVE anymore. I would wrather not have to make that decision, or I could just suck it up and face the fact that I will never have more skillpoints than a certain amount that I can afford to pay for (but that will only limit my options in EVE, even if they are cheap options, thus making the game stale and only allow those whom have a lot of isk to have a lot of skillpoints).
The one decent statement made in those two replies is:
'If anything you will be making dieing less meaningfull'
It would have been nice to hear why you feel that way, but ultimately I am trying to do just that for higher skillpoint players due to dieing costing so much the way it is. As the game stands the cost, time, and effort put into purchasing, moving, equiping ships, and earning isk for the before mentioned is enough. Those logistics in and in itself are more than reasonable to ensure death is meaningful, even if they are t1 frigs. And with implants and other events such as winding up 12 jumps from the fight in your clone station also encourages individuals to not lose their ships and pods. I could go on and on why I think this idea should be implemented. And again I am not suggesting getting rid of the cost I am only suggesting bringing the cost down.
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Gantor Tesla
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Posted - 2008.12.24 20:44:00 -
[5]
High SP player should be able to afford 5 mil when they get podded. When you consider the avg 30 mil sp pilot runs around with more than 100 mil in hardware in their head, the 5 mil clone cost is moot.
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Queen O'Ireland
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Posted - 2008.12.24 21:04:00 -
[6]
I am all for lowering the cost, it would be nice to know the logic behind increasing the isk required to keep skillpoints. The longer you've played does not equal more isk, though by then you should have a number of options available to you for isk. And I do not like that you only get to keep skillpoints if you have high amounts of isk available to you for pvp. Seems kind of backwards to promoting PVP in 0.0 space. |
Takashi X2
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Posted - 2008.12.24 22:58:00 -
[7]
Honestly i would create an alt... infact thats what i did :) and as soon a he hits a good place ima move him to my main account i figure 20mil sp in the right areas is more than plenty and teh clones isnt that bad. If you dont like the idea of waiting 8-12 months just buy one off the forums you like and have it put on yoru account... ireally dont think ccp will change anything tho i do wish they would cuz it does hinder the industrial heavy carebears from nudging into pvp sometimes cuz they feel the hits int eh begining... i know when i lost my first ship i was pretty ****ed but now its like heh... another one down o well.
edit: sry bout the lack of periods
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Dani Shepard
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Posted - 2008.12.24 23:13:00 -
[8]
Takashi X2 that's a good point. I thought at one point that maybe I would just go to training one of my alt's on the same account instead of continuing to train on my main. But besides encouraging me to use my alt's I can't see what else it really is needed for, as you can tell from my posts. |
Typhado3
Minmatar
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.12.24 23:42:00 -
[9]
/signed with op
7 mil for clone is a reason I stick to t2 cruisers and up when I pvp.
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls |
Emporors Champian
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Posted - 2008.12.25 11:40:00 -
[10]
lol my clones are 30 mill for most of my toons so pod jumping is not an option for me hehe.
i think even with 30 mill per clone i dont have much an issue cuz i rarely die and i be sure im not in 0.0 without ship insurance money and pod replacement money. if i ever drop to low i dock up jump clone to empire earn some isk safely then jmp clone back to 0.0
if you clones cost to much you tend to be more carefull about dieing at low cost you can just blast out guns blazing if you die who cares start over.
at higher ammount it makes you have a little more self preservation.
if you ask me you double clone upgrade and allow ships to insure 100% including moduals and rigs
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Dani Shepard
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Posted - 2008.12.25 15:14:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Emporors Champian
i think even with 30 mill per clone i dont have much an issue cuz i rarely die
If you rarely die then you are not a pvp character or you only take fights that you are absolutely sure you can win. This again shows that clone costs do hinder peoples decisions to go out and pvp.
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Arous Drephius
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.12.25 15:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dani Shepard
If you rarely die then you are not a pvp character or you only take fights that you are absolutely sure you can win. This again shows that clone costs do hinder peoples decisions to go out and pvp.
Couldn't be more wrong. I've been pvping for more than a year now and I've lost a total of 1 pod to lag. Loosing ships is one thing, but you shouldn't be podded unless you get caught in a bubble stupidly.
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Dani Shepard
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Posted - 2008.12.25 19:37:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Dani Shepard on 25/12/2008 19:38:32
Edited by: Dani Shepard on 25/12/2008 19:38:17
Originally by: Arous Drephius
Originally by: Dani Shepard
If you rarely die then you are not a pvp character or you only take fights that you are absolutely sure you can win. This again shows that clone costs do hinder peoples decisions to go out and pvp.
Couldn't be more wrong. I've been pvping for more than a year now and I've lost a total of 1 pod to lag. Loosing ships is one thing, but you shouldn't be podded unless you get caught in a bubble stupidly.
Seriously? Is there even anybody reading these forums who lives in 0.0 and primarily pvp's? Maybe 0.0 residents should have their own forums that they read and respond to since our views of how things work differ greatly. As for Arous Drephius take a cheap ship and head down to...well let's see.....head down to curse, venal, maybe even pure blind and cruise around a bit and let me know how easily your pod escapes once your done. How about I'll go with you and we'll make a date of it?
Clones cost too much for high skill point characters. Change it please. |
x psy
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Posted - 2008.12.25 22:26:00 -
[14]
Edited by: x psy on 25/12/2008 22:35:51
/agrees with the OP
Why should a high SP char pay more than other chars if he wants to fly lets say a interceptor, or have fun in a suicide op, etc. ?
Even if that char has maxed skills for that particular ship, why should things like Capital Ship skills make the cost of that particular type of pvp higher?
I am sure in the beginning it made sense to have the clone cost proportional to the amount of SP a character has but, right now, you can have completely uncorrelated amount of SP to what you fly.
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