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Johli
Caldari
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.12.28 23:31:00 -
[31]
Because flying what you can't afford is good c/d
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Ineeda Bejay
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Posted - 2008.12.29 00:28:00 -
[32]
i know i wouldnt be blaying eve if insurance didnt exist. never leave station without it i even insure t2 ships, if you can sit in it i insure it. but when you buy a ship thats 90 mill then you get 90 mill of rigs and 90 mill in moduals you can lose nearly 2/3 of your isk in 1 pop.
the day eve decides they are to good for my money they will take away insurance.
the day they want players to leave high sec to blow stuff up they will give a better insurance.
i not sure what everyone rable on about fly what you can aford...
you know insurance is expencive and only gives you a small amount of your ships value if you got more isk return im sure the cost of insurance goes up quite a bit more.
why i defend this i dont know because i have not lost a ship in over 2 years so any insurance plans i have time out. so i happen to be a low risk pilot.
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Green Cobra
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Posted - 2008.12.29 12:39:00 -
[33]
Want to see true average market prices on ensurance payouts on ALL ships with fitting. T2 ships insurance is a joke  It's long time overdue.
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SpawnSupreme
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Posted - 2008.12.29 14:12:00 -
[34]
Edited by: SpawnSupreme on 29/12/2008 14:14:03
ship insurance currently running off mineral cost if you change it to item cost then isuring t2 or faction items will have everyone in expendable faction ships but all i ask is they allow moduals and rigs to be insured at mineral cost so we get better pay for our loss but not want to break it so everyone can fly navy ravens fully officer faction mods at ship value 4 billion isk and then ship die and get 4 bill....
i do suggest any moduals that survive an explosion are deducted from insurance pay out so if you have your7 shiny t2 guns survive you lose alot of isk there cuz thy worth quite a bit in minerals
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Green Cobra
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Posted - 2008.12.30 10:53:00 -
[35]
 Originally by: SpawnSupreme
Edited by: SpawnSupreme on 29/12/2008 14:14:03
ship insurance currently running off mineral cost if you change it to item cost then isuring t2 or faction items will have everyone in expendable faction ships but all i ask is they allow moduals and rigs to be insured at mineral cost so we get better pay for our loss but not want to break it so everyone can fly navy ravens fully officer faction mods at ship value 4 billion isk and then ship die and get 4 bill....
i do suggest any moduals that survive an explosion are deducted from insurance pay out so if you have your7 shiny t2 guns survive you lose alot of isk there cuz thy worth quite a bit in minerals
Market value, NOT contract stuff, there are a differanse as market only is T2 and named stuff. No faction, deadspace or officer stuff.
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Xinala Breez
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Posted - 2008.12.31 11:49:00 -
[36]
i shutter to see eves huge loss of players without insurrance.
worst yet players would never play long after thier first loss.
eliminating growth of our beloved game
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Dhejay Centrix
Caldari
The Wailing Doom
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Posted - 2008.12.31 11:54:00 -
[37]
Insurance of modules and t2 should never happen. T2 ships are modified t1 ships and modules are aftermarket modifications put on by the owner. If a player corporation wants to provide insurance ingame for these items then good, if not then the system should stay as it is.
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Zerode
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Posted - 2008.12.31 13:51:00 -
[38]
The point of insurances are that you get back the value of waht you loose. This should apply any item in market (not contract stuff).
Insurance based on mineral cost is outdated, time for true value insurance. 
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Dhejay Centrix
Caldari
The Wailing Doom
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Posted - 2008.12.31 17:22:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Zerode
The point of insurances are that you get back the value of waht you loose. This should apply any item in market (not contract stuff).
Insurance based on mineral cost is outdated, time for true value insurance.
Then offer the service. The game supplies insurance for your ship hull based loosely on the build cost of the ship, not the purchase cost. The perceived market value of an item is out of CCP's control since the market is entirely player driven.
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Zerode
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Posted - 2008.12.31 19:08:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Dhejay Centrix
Originally by: Zerode
The point of insurances are that you get back the value of waht you loose. This should apply any item in market (not contract stuff).
Insurance based on mineral cost is outdated, time for true value insurance.
Then offer the service. The game supplies insurance for your ship hull based loosely on the build cost of the ship, not the purchase cost. The perceived market value of an item is out of CCP's control since the market is entirely player driven.
Well so is RL insuranse, ever seen a insurance based on the price in building materials it took to build a house or a car in RL? Why should EVE be different?
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Johli
Caldari
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.12.31 21:56:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Zerode
Originally by: Dhejay Centrix
Originally by: Zerode
The point of insurances are that you get back the value of waht you loose. This should apply any item in market (not contract stuff).
Insurance based on mineral cost is outdated, time for true value insurance.
Then offer the service. The game supplies insurance for your ship hull based loosely on the build cost of the ship, not the purchase cost. The perceived market value of an item is out of CCP's control since the market is entirely player driven.
Well so is RL insuranse, ever seen a insurance based on the price in building materials it took to build a house or a car in RL? Why should EVE be different?
EVE ≠ RL
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Dhejay Centrix
Caldari
The Wailing Doom
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Posted - 2008.12.31 22:18:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Zerode
Well so is RL insuranse, ever seen a insurance based on the price in building materials it took to build a house or a car in RL? Why should EVE be different?
Because EvE is a game set in a physically impossible world many thousands of years in the future involving spaceships.
Now shut up and stop moaning that you can't play eve as well as the person who keeps ganking you.
AARRRRRRRGH
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Giribaldi
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Posted - 2009.01.02 15:57:00 -
[43]
i dont think market value insurance will work because it will allow for t2 and faction and the many items that are very expencive to be insured so if you lose a super fitted ship you can super fit again.
but i do agree if you could mineral value insurance everything on ship like rigs and mods and cargo and ships should all be insured it would be fare more fair.
my car insurance covers a list of items i submitted to insurance agent that is said to be located in car at all time like my 7000 dollar car sterio, 3000 dollar laptop, even my gun is covered...
i think it be only fair to insure your ship a little more than current return values.
wouldnt it be neat if you can talk to your insurance agent while you fly a freighter and tell agent freighter already insurred but i like to insure my cargo...
if you put 10 abaddon in freighter cargo and your freighter gets killed youet your mineral value.
items with no mineral value say like if you put a titan bpo in your cargo hold should be insured at lowest market value.
or maybe just stick to mineral value items just through out some ideas
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xVx dreadnaught
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Posted - 2009.01.02 19:36:00 -
[44]
one of the main reasons I love EVE is it's hardcore. You lose your ship, Start again.
Atho I do think T2 insurance is a bit of a pain tho, Insurance should be based on average market price. As for mods I'm not too sure. CCP doesnt know what your gonna fit your ship with before you die? when you insure it they insure the ship not fittings.
Now say for instance I'm producing T2 mods and ammo but I find it hard to sell the stuff I'v made. Whats stopping me from fittingout a frig with my mods and ammo undocking and being popped by NPC's/Pirates/Concord/Self Destruct? then can claim the insurance on all the juicy mods and ammo I lost (therefore being payed for mods that I myself counldn't sell) So it has instant exploitable factor. The whole point of insurance isn't to break even after every encounter or to profit. Insurance is there so that when you die youatleast get some cash back that can purchase a ship of simialar type and quality and start again.
If they introduced specific module insurance I'd understand. You get some people who fly about in fully faction/officer fitted ships where the mods cost more than the ship. Giving them th option to insure there fittings for te current market/contract average wouldn't be to bad an idea... Insuring a 100mill mod at a cost of 25mill for 100mill pay out doesn't seem too unfair to me. It's a loss but not a complete loss.
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Dhejay Centrix
Caldari
The Wailing Doom
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Posted - 2009.01.02 23:14:00 -
[45]
you can't base insurance on average market price because it changes all the time. Say you bought a curse and insured it, next day it goes up in price so you pop it and make a profit thus creating isk and adding to inflation.
If a player wants to offer this service then fine, otherwise leave insurance alone.
End of discussion.
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Psir
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Posted - 2009.01.02 23:32:00 -
[46]
It's not like anyone is giving you a cookie everytime you promote changes for a harsher EVE, everyone wants to be 'hardcore' these days *sigh*.
Players don't need less incentives to participate in PvP, many who currently partake in it are already loosing enough money as it is. If you want to burn your wallet then fly T2 ships and let the other people be able to afford to participate in PvP aswell.
I'm sorry, but less PvP is not more content and mining for 5-6 hours everytime you get popped is NOT a realistic option.
- The only problem that I would see with the current insurances would be that some t1 ships (like the scorpion for instance) can be a bit too cheap to loose when compared to other ships (comparable to loosing a BC).
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xVx dreadnaught
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Posted - 2009.01.03 00:51:00 -
[47]
Edited by: xVx dreadnaught on 03/01/2009 00:56:16
Originally by: Dhejay Centrix
you can't base insurance on average market price because it changes all the time. Say you bought a curse and insured it, next day it goes up in price so you pop it and make a profit thus creating isk and adding to inflation.
If a player wants to offer this service then fine, otherwise leave insurance alone.
End of discussion.
if you knew anything about Insurance, either ingame or in real life you'd know that the insurance value is agree'd at the time the insurance is "bought" and if you had even glanced at my post you'd understand the 25% collateral being payed would mean that even if someone tried to cheat the system to make money on it, they would need to offset the 25% before even breaking even. Therefore Insuring while prices are high and then popping when prices drop would be a more likely outcome. But the price would have to drop atleast 26% to generate 1% profit.
Also about the Creating ISK??? What do you think NPC bounty is? It is free ISK from CCP as are mission rewards and NPC trade goods.
watching "Zeitgeist Addendum" doesn't make you an expert. If you think that a Module Insurance system will have any effect on the market obviously noone mentioned the isk farmers and macro miners!
Flooding the internet with Ilegal ISK, and saturating the minerals market. Prices high and the ecomomy down.(Everone having more ISK and the volume of mins being pushed onto the market reduces the profit in mining. But thats for another Thread) Oh and good luck if you ever lose an officer mod!
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Dasquirrel715
Gallente
Justified Hedonism And Dualism
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Posted - 2009.01.03 04:33:00 -
[48]
Too exploitable, go to a region with no sell orders for megathrons, make a sell order for 1,000,000,000 isk and another at 100mil or whatever, buy your megathron there and insure it for a billion with only a quarter billion investment.
Basically you can quadruple your money will salvaging your ship for even more money.
Also, I hate the signatures that make you think it's part of their post, only to tell you it's their sig after reading the entire thing. |
Dhejay Centrix
Caldari
The Wailing Doom
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Posted - 2009.01.03 07:48:00 -
[49]
Originally by: xVx dreadnaught
Also about the Creating ISK??? What do you think NPC bounty is? It is free ISK from CCP as are mission rewards and NPC trade goods.
And it has been said in several dev blogs in recent years that this is a problem in the economy of EvE.
Originally by: xVx dreadnaught
Oh and good luck if you ever lose an officer mod!
Yup been there, done that. Earned the isk back and bought another one, just like everyone else. They're overpriced because players choose to charge that much. They should NEVER be insurable.
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xVx dreadnaught
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Posted - 2009.01.03 13:51:00 -
[50]
When I suggested the average market price (I wasn't meaning per region) That would be as you say to exploitable with people that live in 0.0 where markets are lower and easier to menipulate by one player (or a small group)
In no way am I saying that the pvp system should become a (zero loss) system. I'm just saying that you could reduce the amount lost if you are smart enough to insure your expensive mods. There is the other side of it also. What do you do when your insurance ran out? do you renew it or fly withought it. A corp I was in used to do corp owned ships (corp insured) and if anyone got to the end of the insurance contract wihtought being popped, He got told to dock and fit T1 gear then We'd all jump in frigs and pop him :P cs its cheaper to claim on the insurance than to keep insuring something that never payed up.
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Farseer Zellrenech
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Posted - 2009.01.05 08:43:00 -
[51]
you dont lose much isk with a ship being insured at mineral value and some reagons the minerals are so high you get you bonus you cant get away from fluctuations but i will say, how ever ccp were to implement this would be cool because loss of rigs wont take so much of a toll.
this is a great idea and hope i can get more security on my t1 ships. yes you can insure t2 stuff but at only +10% do to added materials.
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SpawnSupreme
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Posted - 2009.01.06 09:52:00 -
[52]
hehe i just lost a ship that i forgot to insure, oh well...
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Erika Bronz
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Posted - 2009.01.06 13:34:00 -
[53]
You don't need to fly the most expensive ships in the game for every fight and encounter, and certanly not bring the most expensive modules every time. There are FW corps that support you with sub capital T1 ships and T1 modules for the triggerhappy. I honestly can't see one single good arguement why insurance should be changed. A battleship loss need not bleed your wallet for more than 10 lousy millions. Ye, some people play big, with multiple accounts, selling gtc and whatnot. Ye, they can probably blow up a lot of ships in a day, so what? That should make everyone trying to sell ships or items happy. Would you rather prefer not being able to sell it, or at a much lower price?
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Master Entreri
Wildcat Federation
ALLIANCE UNKNOWN
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Posted - 2009.01.06 15:29:00 -
[54]
I'm not being a flamer here but, I do not think that mods should ever be included in insurance.
The moment that you can go into battle assured that absolutly nothing is at risk is the day Eve becomes just that much more like WoW.
Its an innovative idea but I just dont think it works.
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Tom Peeping
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Posted - 2009.01.06 19:04:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Solacc
i have to say i find level 4 missions with highest total pay out but i tend to lose ships on some hard missions so i lose a great deal of my profits in losses.
If you're dieing while running missions, you're doing it wrong...
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.06 19:50:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 06/01/2009 19:50:56
The only change that needs to be made to insurance is removing uninsured insurance payouts.
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"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
ScienceOfficer Aracelli
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Posted - 2009.01.07 03:11:00 -
[57]
if dev team got rid or lower any insurance pay out im sure there woul be lots of serious tiers shed in these forums
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.07 03:17:00 -
[58]
Originally by: ScienceOfficer Aracelli
if dev team got rid or lower any insurance pay out im sure there woul be lots of serious tiers shed in these forums
Anyone too cheap to buy any insurance deserves nothing back.
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"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Emporors Champian
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Posted - 2009.01.08 04:23:00 -
[59]
hmmm would that be a fair trade off?
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Rolly Polly
20th Legion
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.08 06:38:00 -
[60]
I'd sat the default insurance is fine, it was a good addition when it was made and the reasons for it still stand; mew players buying their first large ship getting it blown up and rage quiting. The fact that it's the only thing you can do with super caps give it another use though I admit it would probably be something that's not too hard to replace.
The idea of improving insurance to cover even more of a loss seems the opposite of what the concensus is, The tears a reduction would cause would probably be enough to bring about the next great flood becasue we all know people will be unwilling ot go back to flying cheaper ships when they suddenly become unable to afford to lose whatever their most expensive hull is and thus the moaning about how much more they have to rat to afford what they were previously able to afford through insurance.
The balance between the loss hurting and the extra firepower tech II brings has probably balanced natrally, an increase in isnurance would drive demand up and place more money into the pockets of people looking to replace lost ships.
Anyway I'm talking in circles:
Tech II insurance : good
Tech I insurance: maybe a bit too generous on BS losses(lesser extent BC) but otherwise acceptable. |
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