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Aricaan
Gallente
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2008.12.19 11:40:00 -
[1]
What keeps pyrite from Rising?
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Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.12.19 12:10:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Aricaan
What keeps pyrite from Rising?
Is it Helium?
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Taua Roqa
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.12.19 12:11:00 -
[3]
the white man does
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Isk Ho
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.19 12:17:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Aricaan
What keeps pyrite from Rising?
I heard it was Rowdy Roddy Piper
Your signature is too large - Mitnal
Last night a mod ate my sig, last night a mod ate my sig - Mitnal broke my heart :( |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2008.12.19 12:19:00 -
[5]
nuthin... (watchin the game, havin a bud)
but in the big picture it is all intertwined. if one needs a certain a mount of trit, he needs a fixed amount of all the other stuff aswell. maybe it's a little daft to call trit the bottleneck - not due to availability but due to the logistical nightmare it can pose. but with high-mins mineable rather freely and safely, market forces keep them linked via isk/h-mining calculations.
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putting the gist back into logistics |
Cheopis
Amarr
One Stop Mining Shop
One Stop Research
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Posted - 2008.12.19 12:32:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Aricaan
What keeps pyrite from Rising?
There does seem to be some strangeness going on in the minerals market. I've never seen just one mineral spike while others fall. Even pyer has fallen slightly.
Cap ship component building might explain it, as they are very trit heavy, but this spike is going on much longer than I would have expected it to, even considering the cap ship losses reported around the time of the Orca release.
I haven't heard much from the 0.0 / alliance warfare side of the game recently. Have there been a lot more cap ship losses than usual recently? Stackless I/O could be allowing much nastier and bloodier battles, which in turn would keep the pressure heavy on trit.
Have miners in highsec noticed any changes in asteroid distributions in highsec belts? If veld roid numbers have been adjusted down a bit and other roids adjusted up, that might have some small effect, but I would hesitate to say that such a scenario is likely if there hasn't been a easily noticeable change in roid distributions.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.19 13:11:00 -
[7]
Trit is the largest percentage build in terms of qty
Capital ships are some of the most trit heavy in the game
Capital ship and module demand is up again(just ask Xabier)
The low ends. Trit, Pye, Mex, Iso are intrinsicly linked and to a lesser degree the low ends are linked to the high ends of Noc, Mega, and Zydrine.
As trit spikes, the remaining minerals will pressure downward, despite supply dip they may experience.
We also have slight pressure downward as demand lulls elsewhere in the market (ask Cosmoray), so we have a small glut in many of the low ends and high ends. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.12.19 13:26:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Cheopis
Originally by: Aricaan
What keeps pyrite from Rising?
There does seem to be some strangeness going on in the minerals market. I've never seen just one mineral spike while others fall. Even pyer has fallen slightly.
Cap ship component building might explain it, as they are very trit heavy, but this spike is going on much longer than I would have expected it to, even considering the cap ship losses reported around the time of the Orca release.
I haven't heard much from the 0.0 / alliance warfare side of the game recently. Have there been a lot more cap ship losses than usual recently? Stackless I/O could be allowing much nastier and bloodier battles, which in turn would keep the pressure heavy on trit.
Have miners in highsec noticed any changes in asteroid distributions in highsec belts? If veld roid numbers have been adjusted down a bit and other roids adjusted up, that might have some small effect, but I would hesitate to say that such a scenario is likely if there hasn't been a easily noticeable change in roid distributions.
You might be seeing the effects of BoB and NC rebuilding after BoB's MAX campaign. The battle for Tribute was the like Somme of capships. IIRC, BoB lost over 200 caps and the NC almost as many. Plus 3 or 4 titans and ~10 motherships. That's a lot of trit...
And of course Goons now are squaring up for round 2 of the Great Southern War.
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asp viper
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Posted - 2008.12.19 13:43:00 -
[9]
if you reprocess rat loot and built something from it, after a while pyerite starts to piles up, while you use up all other minerals. (why? )
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nether void
Caldari
Shrapnel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.19 15:37:00 -
[10]
Last night I refreshed my mineral pricing in my spreadsheets from data dumps of Lonetrek, and not only was Trit lopsided with buy order prices higher than sell order prices (which is normal) but so were Pyre, Mex, and Iso was about even... WTF? It seems that the size of new endeavors are really creating some horrific logistics problems. I can't think of any other reason for how lopsided the pricing is in Empire. ... Although at that point people would still have to move the mins anyway from wherever players dumped them on their buy order, so that doesn't really seem like the reason.
Wouldn't a buy order actually increase your logistics issue? I've yet to use one (I just transport my own minerals I buy from sell orders).
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Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.12.19 16:17:00 -
[11]
Originally by: nether void
Last night I refreshed my mineral pricing in my spreadsheets from data dumps of Lonetrek, and not only was Trit lopsided with buy order prices higher than sell order prices (which is normal) but so were Pyre, Mex, and Iso was about even... WTF? It seems that the size of new endeavors are really creating some horrific logistics problems. I can't think of any other reason for how lopsided the pricing is in Empire. ... Although at that point people would still have to move the mins anyway from wherever players dumped them on their buy order, so that doesn't really seem like the reason.
Wouldn't a buy order actually increase your logistics issue? I've yet to use one (I just transport my own minerals I buy from sell orders).
Not if its limited to station range, also if you are mass producing having range mean lots of minerals will build up in various station, the range element will get you a cheaper price so you can "afford" for the small quantities to sit in your hanger untill is worthwhile getting a courier or moving them yourself.
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nether void
Caldari
Shrapnel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.19 17:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Midas Man
also if you are mass producing having range mean lots of minerals will build up in various station, the range element will get you a cheaper price so you can "afford" for the small quantities to sit in your hanger untill is worthwhile getting a courier or moving them yourself.
Yeah that's what I mean. If you're doing a buy order over the region, don't you have to then go pick up crap from all over the place? Next my question is...you paid a higher price? Why not save money AND have less moves to do by buying from the sell orders?
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.19 17:12:00 -
[13]
Originally by: nether void
Yeah that's what I mean. If you're doing a buy order over the region, don't you have to then go pick up crap from all over the place? Next my question is...you paid a higher price? Why not save money AND have less moves to do by buying from the sell orders?
How are station specific buy orders paying more than the sell orders?
You do have to pick them up, but you don't rely on it. You use it as a supplement to the rest of your supply. |
abraheam
Dirty Denizens
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Posted - 2008.12.19 20:24:00 -
[14]
Originally by: asp viper
if you reprocess rat loot and built something from it, after a while pyerite starts to piles up, while you use up all other minerals. (why?)
This fellas hit the nail on the head I think. The same happened while I spent considerable time in the drone regions with the drone poo.
I dont have the numbers right in front of me (at work lol) but from my experience the comsumption and drop percentages of minerals are not aligned depending on what you are making. Especialy in drone poo where the percentages of morphite, py, and Nox appeared to make up a fair bit higher of a percentage of the drops then the percentage of the mins it takes to build many items, especially common items. Of course this could be confirmed with comparing a triple drone spawns mineral make up to the needed mineral percentages in common large items like a raven.
After six motnhs+ away from the drone regions I still have large stock piles left over of, you guessed it, Pyrite, Nox, Morph, (and zyd because I horded it).
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.12.19 20:30:00 -
[15]
scordite
if i have to tell you more it means you wont get it no matter what
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Dal Thrax
Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.19 20:52:00 -
[16]
400 capships and even 10 or so Mom's isn't going to cause a large spike in overall Trit demand. EvE experienced a player boom about two years ago, starting with the acquisition of White Wolf and accelerating through the T20 scandal (proving that their is no such thing as bad publicity). Add to this demand for the Orca and you got a ship building boom.
Those characters are coming up on the two year mark and are skilling into capships. The scary thing is that it's quite possible we'll see 1000 Capship fights by next summer.
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nether void
Caldari
Shrapnel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.19 21:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: nether void
Yeah that's what I mean. If you're doing a buy order over the region, don't you have to then go pick up crap from all over the place? Next my question is...you paid a higher price? Why not save money AND have less moves to do by buying from the sell orders?
How are station specific buy orders paying more than the sell orders?
You do have to pick them up, but you don't rely on it. You use it as a supplement to the rest of your supply.
Not sure how they are, but you can buy all the minerals from a sell order, and immediately sell it to a region-wide buy order. For Trit you would make 0.4/Unit.
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Cheopis
Amarr
One Stop Mining Shop
One Stop Research
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Posted - 2008.12.20 14:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: nether void
Originally by: Midas Man
also if you are mass producing having range mean lots of minerals will build up in various station, the range element will get you a cheaper price so you can "afford" for the small quantities to sit in your hanger untill is worthwhile getting a courier or moving them yourself.
Yeah that's what I mean. If you're doing a buy order over the region, don't you have to then go pick up crap from all over the place? Next my question is...you paid a higher price? Why not save money AND have less moves to do by buying from the sell orders?
Why not do both?
I set region wide buy orders for lots of stuff at 70-80% of mineral value, then as I get large enough amounts built up, I contract up to 10% of the mineral value of the items to move them.
Every now and then I start at the top of the modules section and work my way down, buying everything valued at less than mineral value that I notice, across the entire region. These purchases are normally heavily centered on mission hubs. Sometimes they aren't. I have almost 300 frigates sitting in a little backwater in east BFE now that I'm thinking about going to get soon. The profits from the first type of buying pay for the movement of the stuff from the second buying method. Sometimes I wander around personally in an transport and consolidate stuff for freighter runs if my contracts haven't been moving well. Sometimes I let stuff build up for days between hiring couriers, so the stacks will be more worth moving.
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Cheopis
Amarr
One Stop Mining Shop
One Stop Research
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Posted - 2008.12.20 15:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: nether void
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: nether void
Yeah that's what I mean. If you're doing a buy order over the region, don't you have to then go pick up crap from all over the place? Next my question is...you paid a higher price? Why not save money AND have less moves to do by buying from the sell orders?
How are station specific buy orders paying more than the sell orders?
You do have to pick them up, but you don't rely on it. You use it as a supplement to the rest of your supply.
Not sure how they are, but you can buy all the minerals from a sell order, and immediately sell it to a region-wide buy order. For Trit you would make 0.4/Unit.
Did you mistype what you meant? Or do you meen cross regional trade?
Within a region, any sell order existing under the influence range of a buy order with a price less than or equal to that buy order would either fill the buy, or be bought out. If it's not, there is probably a quantity limiter on the region wide buy that is higher than the sell order's remaining quantity. Or it's a bug.
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