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Shamis Orzoz
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.12.22 18:41:00 -
[31]
It is too easy to move around. Between pos jump bridging, titan jump bridging, and jump clones, there is really no way to get the jump on somebody. Combine that with long pos timers, and you could invade somebody's space while they were 200 jumps away, and they'd still be able to get their entire alliance back before you kill a single tower.
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr
The Drekla Consortium
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.22 19:02:00 -
[32]
Maybe one day a player owned alliance can achieve the same status as an NPC empire? If EVE continues to grow it certainly could be a possibility in the very distant future.
If it continues to grow that is...
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Put in space whales!
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VCBee80085
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.22 19:16:00 -
[33]
I think you overestimate the value of 0.0 tbh. Most of it is a barren, worthless wasteland and the systems that hold no value outnumbered the few scattered systems where an average pilot can actually make more ratting than empire mission running. Moon mining is the primary value of 0.0 for big alliances and the random allocation of moons means space can vary in value significantly. When you factor in the time spent and isk spent by logistics people to hold all that space, I think you realize that most regions are only turning a fairly medicore profit - its certainly not an endless isk fountain that will enable you to lose 50 cap ships every day.
When it comes to cap ships and super cap ships, don't forget that the raw isk is often the easiest part of the deal. You can't lose those 50 cap ships and then just go to the dread store and press a button to turn your 100b isk into 50 new dreads. The contract market for cap ships can be very low supply and after big fights, there can be literally zero dreads for sale in the entire game. It takes massive amounts of logistical work to have the production needed to replace those kind of losses and titans take literally hundreds of freighters worth of low ends to build.
You are right that the current setup of 0.0 means that defending is usually easier than attacking.
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Xiong Yoshi
Gallente
Quantum Industries
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.22 19:26:00 -
[34]
Nano's versus Cyno Jammer Deathstar - How many Nano hacs (prior to nano nerf) would it have taken to kill a cyno jammer on a deathstar.... that happened to be protected by a Titan? I'm thinking that the Nano nerf (roughly 1 month old) did nothing to create stagnation (which people have complained about for a long time).
Moving the rare moon minerals around is a good idea on it's own, but I can't see RAZOR/MM/BOB/GOOONS giving up their SOV just because a few moons went dry. More likely those moons would just respawn to a different moon in their SOV and the individual members of that specific power block would want to keep POSs up everywhere in the hopes of scoring a rare mineral spawn on their personal POS.
I see a lot of people say that it is the Jump Bridges, Jump Clones, etc that lead to the stagnation - I disagree. If alliances couldn't move around then the powerblock would encourage it's members to stay home and rat as opposed to trying to mount a huge offensive on the other side of the map. There might be more roaming gangs active - but huge cap fleet combats of the sort seen in E-O this fall would be a thing of the past. No powerblock would want to take its cap fleet so far away from home if their pilots couldn't JC back or if Jump Bridges didn't allow for re-entry into important jammed systems.
Resetting the server or putting up a new server? No thanks. It would probably be a lot of fun starting the game afresh with everyone, but unless there were major changes to some aspect of the game.. It would have to be along the lines of completely new SOV mechanics + completely new corp/alliance mechanics + completely new Standings mechanics.. and maybe new skill learning mechanics on top of that... without this kind of major change, it'd be hard to justify a reset as being anything other than cold shoulder to those who have been with the game for years.
And to finally answer the OP's question: They aren't - but they probably aren't supposed to be. You call it stagnation, but in reality the game is a living world which evolves over time. Any of the major powerblocks can be removed pretty quickly - all it needs is for another powerblock to have the resources and willpower to do so.
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There are only two types of ships: those which have blown up; and those which will.
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Straight Chillen
Gallente
Solar Wind
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Posted - 2008.12.22 19:57:00 -
[35]
I think the biggest issues with 0.0 and power blocks are from the people on the outside looking in.
First I would say the biggest issue is that every up & comming corp and nupty alliance thinks they have some kind of god given right to own a chunk of 0.0, This is not so. You have to be willing to fight tooth and nail for it, To wake up for an alarm clock op at 4 am when uve got work at 6. To completly exhaust your resources and still press on. And even all that that wont guarentee success. To steal a quote, "no sacrifice, no victory"
Look at the established power blocks. They have fought with everything they have to gain control of their space. And you think what? you should beable to come and undo that in what a day? a week? 2 weeks time? They have fought for years to establish what they have, and it should be quite an undertaking to dislodge them.
Look at what happened to Bob & Co last year, They were pushed back into one region. They Went into an alamo style of fighting. The aggressors eventually got bored, and went home. BOB & their pets were removed from every other region they had. Had the coalition succeded in breaking their morale in delve, BoB would just be a part of EVE history today.
And i think most of the people have a great misconception that 0.0 powerblocks have trillions upon trillions laying about and just hand out ships by the hundreds to get blown up. That all the regular members can simply throw around isk like a footbal. This is simply not true.
You dont see the unsung heros of the alliances, The average members. Who do their part and X's up for gangs and CTA's. The guys who lose their BS and then have to go rat, mine or mission to replace it. Sure some of the old garde who have been playing since beta can lose hundreds of ships with out batting an eye. But they are not the average player in any alliance.
Also anyone who thinks that small gang roaming warfare is dead is a friggen idiot. Theirs always hostile gangs roaming around Established space, Killing ****. And as has been said a few time, theres nothing to stop a bunch of third rate alliances from simply banding together and pushing out another alliance.
The people who are calling for random redistribution of moon minerals are missing a huge point too. High end moons is truly the icing on the cake for any alliance. Its really the only profit that comes out of the entire bull**** that is the POS system. Randomizing the moon mins makes little to no sense from both a realistic and gameplay stand point. The impact it would have on the markets would be catastrophic & we would be back to the days of 90m isk cov ops cloaks and other retartedly expensive t2 mods.
If 0.0 is so stagnant (which i disagree) Then it is only due to human nature, Not because of POS or high end moons.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Magna Star
Minmatar
Most Wanted INC
G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.12.22 22:42:00 -
[36]
 Originally by: Xiong Yoshi
I see a lot of people say that it is the Jump Bridges, Jump Clones, etc that lead to the stagnation - I disagree....There might be more roaming gangs active - but huge cap fleet combats...would be a thing of the past. No powerblock would want to take its cap fleet so far away from home...
So you are for keeping things the same so we can have less active roaming gangs, huge massive blobs that kill the server, and people will not be able to bring their cap ship from halfway across eve in an instant? I guess if this is your definition of fun, then things in Eve are perfect.
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BRooDJeRo
Gallente
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.23 00:57:00 -
[37]
Originally by: RedSplat
My question is
How are current game features and the political landscape of 0.0 conductive to anything but stagnation?[/quote
Welcome to EvE  |
HakanSherif
Minmatar
Amok.
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Posted - 2008.12.23 01:44:00 -
[38]
Fortune favors the bold.
There is nothing in this game stopping anyone to start from scratch and form his/her legacy.
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Lumen Atra
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.23 13:36:00 -
[39]
Originally by: RedSplat
Edited by: RedSplat on 21/12/2008 22:14:00
Originally by: Janu Hull
Red Alliance splintered into a myriad of lesser alliances, eliminating what was arguably a the second most massive player in the Goon/BoB war.
Triumvirate v1.0 had Deklein for a while before its first failure cascade.
Roadkill/SMASH was flattened by Goonswarm.
The map is still in motion, you have a few really massive superpowers that aren't going anywhere, shy of internal strife, but that doesn't imply the game is over by a long shot.
So, AAA, Goons and BoB smashing alliances that were smaller than they are (they were smaller werent they?).
When one of those three bite the dust i'll certainly take notice, untill then as you say the largest powers arent going anywhere at the moment- to me when the situation is static in tha tmanner and there is no sign of such changing that says to me that the game is over.
Is it even possible for BoB to wipe out the Goons anymore? Or Goons vs AAA or any combination of such?
Does alliance income outstrip what can be considered to be reasonable or even unreasonable losses by such a degree of magnitude that ship loss essentially means nothing for them...
If so any war between the biggest powerbloc's seems destined to be a slogging match between two people with god mode on and nothing will ever change until CCP /sv_cheats 0
The whole problem with your line of questioning is a supposition that there is an end. Why does sov have to change hands for there to be proof that a system works? Why does an alliance have to die to show activity?
The real problem with the game, aside from poor networking, is that people think of the game as some sort of shooter or RPG, which is what it is marketed as. In truth, it is an RTS game, where each unit is controlled by an individual, and there are many sides. People don't play it like an RTS, and so the strategy involved is unimaginative, lackluster, and long winded. Some of the game mechanics also push things into the long winded category, but those mechanics wouldn't be as noticeable if more people tackled it as an RTS game.
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Veldya
Caldari
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.12.23 15:01:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Deagon Droga
I've spent over two years training on this character. I'd leave that all behind in a second if there was a new server! I might keep the character and play it for fun, but, I would definately be starting a main and an alt on the new server.
Tranquility is fully owned and operated by the big powers. It's just that simple. They own the moons and have control of the markets. There is no end game for the average player on Tranq.
I don't think it would matter. You make it sound like there is a lack of opportunity. There isn't. There is just a lack of leadership. The reason the current powerblocs exist and survive is because of good leadership. The reason smaller alliances survive and thrive is because of good leadership.
If you go to a new server you are likely going to be left behind by better leaders eventually.
Like most of the players we have seen so many corps and alliances rise and fall. Invariably it is not a lack of opportunity that sees them fail, it is greed, poor management, poor leadership skills, poor communication skills, mild to severe psychological disorders and the like.
There have been some great alliances that have just self-destructed due to incompetence.
Current powerblocs exist only because of BoB. They have and continue to plow through people not big enough to stand against them. It has seen the arms race to get to that size. The good leaders knew what they had to achieve to survive. This has caused issues for smaller corps and alliances but there have not been a shortage of opportunity. You just have to be very careful of who you **** off and in what circumstances. Some poor judgement decisions are often fatal.
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Orange Faeces
Minmatar
THE INTERNET.
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Posted - 2008.12.23 19:05:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Veldya
Current powerblocs exist only because of BoB.
YOU ARE A GENIUS! And here I was wondering when someone would come along and explain it all to me. TYVM! Everyone should read this.
O. Faeces
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The Other Orange |
BeefSupreme
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.23 19:27:00 -
[42]
Grow a spine, and get in on the action. You can either pick a powerbloc to back, or go your own way and try to take a slice of the 0.0 pie.
Start off in NPC 0.0, and move on from there. Goons did it, and we're useless ******s.
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