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Wanted: Anti-Frig Cruiser (Small Gang)

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Maj Blacksea Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams	Posted - 2008.12.21 04:40:00 - [1] What I am looking for (a) can quickly take down frigates/inties/AFs/pop pods :-) (b) fast enough to keep up with frigates (c) must be cheaper than an AF; & good for low SP toon (5-10mil SP) (d) you may presume there is a tackler in gang, + 2-3 dps ships of cruiser-BS size Note: Can be any race. This was inspired by 'destroyer pvp' thread; guess I'm kinda looking for a destroyer substitute that is superior than the huge sig/paper tank destroyers we currently have. A ship that can lend dps to a frigate gang, or whack tacklers in a cruiser/BC gang
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.12.21 04:52:00 - [2] something like this maybe? Quote: [Omen, ghetto zealot] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Adaptive Nano Plating II Damage Control II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Warrior II x3 or an arty rupture, or a vexor with warrior IIs and neuts, or something. __________________________________ Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.12.21 05:18:00 - [3] Originally by: Maj Blacksea What I am looking for (a) can quickly take down frigates/inties/AFs/pop pods :-) (b) fast enough to keep up with frigates (c) must be cheaper than an AF; & good for low SP toon (5-10mil SP) (d) you may presume there is a tackler in gang, + 2-3 dps ships of cruiser-BS size Caracal with light assault launcher II's and an assortment of faction, precision, and high damage missiles in cargo. Three or four five-missile volleys of precision lights will kill a Ceptor even if it's moving at high speed, but if they're keeping their distance and using a disruptor II your precision missiles may not have the range needed to get a good hit if you've only got 5-10 million SPs. If you fit a MWD and do a bit of manual flying you may be able to close the distance needed to get into range of a Ceptor if they're set to orbit at a fixed distance. The alternative is a Vexor but if you're lacking good drone skills a good frigate pilot will kill your drones and then your ship.
Maj Blacksea Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams	Posted - 2008.12.21 05:19:00 - [4] Edited by: Maj Blacksea on 21/12/2008 05:21:44 Omen looks very useful. Maybe swap a sensor booster and a gyro for tracking mods? i.e. MPx5 MWD, SB, TP Gyro x 2; TE, DC, resist How would this match up to an AF? What about fitting frig guns to cruisers? I.e. a Stabber with 280s+AML, etc. I am thinking primarily 0.0 but I've seen some guys in low-sec do well popping frigs with smaller than standard weapons... Add a few tracking mods, would get very consistent dps against small stuff; could even fit a decent tank. I guess my aim is to outrun anything larger, chew up anything smaller before they can warp off. Also ship should be useful in bubble/gatecamps. EDIT: Would any inty pilot sit around long enough for 3-5 volleys of missiles? Missiles = too slow arrival time?
DamienV CAD Inc. Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.12.21 05:28:00 - [5] I would also look at destroyers for anti-frig work. Arty thrasher, or rail cormorant are awesome. For cruisers, stabber/rupture, Omen/arb, vexor/thorax, caracal/moa all work. for b, fast enough to keep up with frigates, do you mean traveling, or speedwise? If so, there isnt really many. My thoughts would be: omen: someone already posted a good setup caracal: assault launchers mwd and some extenders/hardeners BCU's moa: dual 150 rails, 2 assault launchers mwd/extenders/hardeners or mwd/tracking comps/extenders Mag stabs/TEs those 3 are my fav, and those are just fitting guidelines, modify them for your preferences. It is hard to know what you want because I dont know if your running close range, long range, tanked, ganked, RR, or what.
DamienV CAD Inc. Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.12.21 05:30:00 - [6] Edited by: DamienV on 21/12/2008 05:31:25 Originally by: Maj Blacksea Edited by: Maj Blacksea on 21/12/2008 05:21:44 Omen looks very useful. Maybe swap a sensor booster and a gyro for tracking mods? i.e. MPx5 MWD, SB, TP Gyro x 2; TE, DC, resist How would this match up to an AF? What about fitting frig guns to cruisers? I.e. a Stabber with 280s+AML, etc. I am thinking primarily 0.0 but I've seen some guys in low-sec do well popping frigs with smaller than standard weapons... Add a few tracking mods, would get very consistent dps against small stuff; could even fit a decent tank. I guess my aim is to outrun anything larger, chew up anything smaller before they can warp off. Also ship should be useful in bubble/gatecamps. EDIT: Would any inty pilot sit around long enough for 3-5 volleys of missiles? Missiles = too slow arrival time? well, most inty pilots wont sit around for 2-3 volleys from anything TBH. unless you have it tackled your mostly just going to be chasing them away, which effectively does the same thing as killing them. Oh and also, not gyros, those are for projectiles, you want heat sinks on your lasor ships. EDIT: I would also mostly use cruiser size guns on the cruisers your using. you can use the smallest med size gun for better tracking, and get some tracking mods
Maj Blacksea Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams	Posted - 2008.12.21 05:41:00 - [7] Originally by: DamienV I would also look at destroyers for anti-frig work. Arty thrasher, or rail cormorant are awesome. For cruisers, stabber/rupture, Omen/arb, vexor/thorax, caracal/moa all work. for b, fast enough to keep up with frigates, do you mean traveling, or speedwise? If so, there isnt really many. My thoughts would be: omen: someone already posted a good setup caracal: assault launchers mwd and some extenders/hardeners BCU's moa: dual 150 rails, 2 assault launchers mwd/extenders/hardeners or mwd/tracking comps/extenders Mag stabs/TEs those 3 are my fav, and those are just fitting guidelines, modify them for your preferences. It is hard to know what you want because I dont know if your running close range, long range, tanked, ganked, RR, or what. I got the idea for this thread from the Destroyer PvP thread; consensus seemed to be destroyers are crap with thrasher and catalyst being most versatile/useful. Speed = ability to bug out when frigs bug out; i.e. not a 1600mm Rupture that takes 15 minutes to align; if in bigger gang, ability to GFTO if someone biggish targets your cruiser, be it a quick warp align or simply running out of range. Thanks for setups; I'll investigate them all. I don't have a particular setup in mind - long, short or RR - though I suspect 15-25km weapons (tackle range) would be useful. Creativity is good, real non-EFT combat use of your recommended ship is better.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.12.21 05:42:00 - [8] Originally by: DamienV well, most inty pilots wont sit around for 2-3 volleys from anything TBH. unless you have it tackled your mostly just going to be chasing them away, which effectively does the same thing as killing them. Inty pilots will, however, stick around for 2-3 volleys of lasers, because with a <2 second RoF 3 volleys of laser fire lands in less than 4 seconds, which is not enough time for a ceptor to warp out assuming it is using a MWD and not aligned. Then again that's the experience I've had with the Zealot, which gets a lot more range to play with (I get 45km out of HPL II + scorch + some range mods), if you find a ceptor alone and it starts at about 25km away the aforementioned omen might not be able to take it out. It should work decently for fire support (antifrig, and reasonable DPS on primaries) in gangs though. __________________________________ Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
Wannabehero Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2008.12.21 05:48:00 - [9] What Terianna has said basically, though the Arbitrator can smoke frigs decently as well, as can the Belicose with a couple TP's, but the Belicose is FRAIL, just a warning. Pretty much take any cruiser and ft it for high scan resolution/tracking and you will be doing ok. -- Don't harsh my mellow
Icarus Flame Amarr Van Ness Pet Hospital	Posted - 2008.12.21 08:19:00 - [10] Try something awesome like this: Coercer, Gank: Highs: 8x Dual Light Pulse Laser II (Scorch S) Mids: 1x Catalyzed Cold-gas Arcjet Thrusters Lows: 1x 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plate 1x Damage Control II 1x Heat Sink II 1x Tracking Enhancer II (or another Heat Sink II, as it already has pretty good range). With 15km or so optimal, about 170 DPS, and really really good tracking, this Coercer is godly against frigs. Just have to be in a gang with tackle. I almost killed a Firetail in this setup and no tackle, though he warped out with 25% hull.

Soporo Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.21 09:17:00 - [11] What Dirk said. Not the best choice possibly, but if they guy wants to remain in missiles (and not lazors) for some idiotic reason nowadays then it's a Caracal: BCU II BCU II LSE II Inv II PWNAGE Painter (mandatory now) Sensor Booster II (scan res) Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon MWD 5 x SV-2000 Asaults with CN Bloodclaw Light ammo (If you can't use or fit T2 and/or don't want to raise the cost by using Arbies) Rigs: 2 Anti-EM, 1 Anti-Therm Moderate skills should give him 40-45km range, 300-400 scan res or so depending, and fairly cheap.
Prev T'ck Minmatar James Edward Glover	Posted - 2008.12.21 11:10:00 - [12] When you absolutely positively have to kill every mother farker in the room,.. Accept no substitute.... I give you the Rupture [Rupture] Gyrostabilizer II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Dual 180mm AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] This ruppy is the balls, plain and simple. Against frigs/dessies/inties or Assaults, this thing will own them all. I have gone 3 on 1 with this and done fine (2 Harpies and 1 Hawk).
Soporo Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.21 11:14:00 - [13] A Hawk doesnt count. Ever.
Stelteck Minmatar Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.12.21 11:16:00 - [14] A well fitted destroyer is awesome against small vessel ! And cheap.
Kessiaan Minmatar Army of One	Posted - 2008.12.21 11:44:00 - [15] The lowly Thorax is a fearsome beast against frigs in the hands of someone who knows how to use it Thorax, Anti-AF HIGH: 5x Light Neutron Blaster II MID: 10MN Microwarpdrive II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II LOW: Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates 3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II DRONE: 5x Vespa EC-600 ... besides, I've said all I'm going to say. You're reading my sig now! Bwa! -
Stuart Price Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.12.21 15:24:00 - [16] Your options from my experience: 1. Caracal with assault launchers and light drones. 2. Osprey (yes really) with neuts, assault launchers and light drones. 3. Vexor with neuts and light drones. 4. Arbitrator with (wait for it...) neuts and light drones. 5. Rupture with 180's, assault launchers and light drones (again). Neut 'em, scram 'em, web 'em, kill 'em. If they start kiting you (Harpy), pray your weapons can hit out to point range and they don't bother shooting your drones... If you're looking to swat tacklers from someone else in your gang: 1. Omen with heavy pulses. 2. Moa with dual 150's. You'll have trouble tracking them if they go for you, but at range, tracking is MUCH less of an issue so you should be able to put some nice damage on them. Hell, I once shot a vengeance down with a megapulse abaddon because he thought he was safe at 30km... In theory, 2 med-range cruisers covering each other is an excellent option for exactly that reason. Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate'
Tuncan Minmatar Arbitrary Freedom	Posted - 2008.12.21 16:33:00 - [17] i would go for stabber Fast - fastest Can tackle Can take frigs easily You can even be a scout 4x t2 180mm 2x heavy launcher 1x warp distrupter2 1x sensor booster ( to lock faster, if its not an issue for you fit a tp here and remover the enhancer for a gyro2 ) 1x mwd 2x overdrive2 1x tracking enhancer2 Works great, no frig( except the t1 counterparts of ceptors ) is faster than this. Not great dps like ruppy, but it works. ( btw u can have 1x warrior2 :p )
Jalif Black Sinisters	Posted - 2008.12.21 16:36:00 - [18] Edited by: Jalif on 21/12/2008 16:40:00 Originally by: Tuncan i would go for stabber Fast - fastest Can tackle Can take frigs easily You can even be a scout 4x t2 180mm 2x heavy launcher 1x warp distrupter2 1x sensor booster ( to lock faster, if its not an issue for you fit a tp here and remover the enhancer for a gyro2 ) 1x mwd 2x overdrive2 1x tracking enhancer2 Works great, no frig( except the t1 counterparts of ceptors ) is faster than this. Not great dps like ruppy, but it works. ( btw u can have 1x warrior2 :p ) This (another setup tbh..) But it ain't a good anti-interceptor. But it kills anything else frigate sized. CEO of Black Sinisters
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2008.12.21 16:46:00 - [19] I would go for the Bellicose tbh, nothing spells doom to a frig more than a bonuses target painter. Othe other benefits are a respectable speed and a decent drone bay, plus it's 5 highs.
Cade Morrigan Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.21 17:30:00 - [20] Originally by: Nian Banks I would go for the Bellicose tbh, nothing spells doom to a frig more than a bonuses target painter. Othe other benefits are a respectable speed and a decent drone bay, plus it's 5 highs. But every time he had to look at it he'd vomit.

Rennion	Posted - 2008.12.21 17:56:00 - [21] Arbitrator. Warriors. Big Smile. Omen or arty ruppy can do it right up until they primary you, then you wont hit anything and die.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2008.12.21 18:19:00 - [22] Originally by: Cade Morrigan Originally by: Nian Banks I would go for the Bellicose tbh, nothing spells doom to a frig more than a bonuses target painter. Othe other benefits are a respectable speed and a decent drone bay, plus it's 5 highs. But every time he had to look at it he'd vomit. To each their own I guess, personally I quite like how the bellicose looks. Also this thread is about what's a good anti frigate cruiser, not what cruiser would win a beauty contest...
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.12.21 18:22:00 - [23] Originally by: Kessiaan Thorax, Anti-AF Wouldn't a vexor just do this cheaper and better? __________________________________ Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
McCreary075 Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2008.12.21 18:31:00 - [24] Edited by: McCreary075 on 21/12/2008 18:32:50 A thorax, all T1 fit, nothing named. I chose rails over blasters because you have little chance of catching a frigate and closing in to blaster range. When I was a n00b, I used to use a small rail thorax in missions with some friends to pop rat frigates, and even as a month old character, the rails did a great job of popping them. My lock times sucked though, I wasn't using a sensor booster then. [Thorax, Frigate Ganker] Tracking Enhancer I Tracking Enhancer I Magnetic Field Stabilizer I Inertia Stabilizers I (could be a nanofiber, depends on personal preference) Damage Control I 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Disruptor I (add another sensor booster if you'd like) Sensor Booster I, Scan Resolution 150mm Railgun I, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S 150mm Railgun I, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S 150mm Railgun I, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S 150mm Railgun I, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S 150mm Railgun I, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Warrior I x5 DPS without the drones is low, but any named rails will give better range and damage. If you can go T2 rails(I'm assuming 5-10M SP can use some T2) and light drones, you will be dealing some nice damage to them, 170ish with my skills. Spike on T2 rails is nice for the range, but for popping frigates its MEH, because it hurts tracking. If you need to add DPS to a frig gang to help gank a cruiser, move in close and use antimatter, the rails still have lots of tracking, even at 10km, and you should do well against cruisers then. I-stab or nano will get the align time down fairly low, and the MWD will push you up around 1.5km/s. General note to people who post here: READ. You are putting 1600mm plates on a ship that is supposed to try and keep up with frigates, good idea.
Cade Morrigan Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.21 18:31:00 - [25] Originally by: Nian Banks Originally by: Cade Morrigan Originally by: Nian Banks I would go for the Bellicose tbh, nothing spells doom to a frig more than a bonuses target painter. Othe other benefits are a respectable speed and a decent drone bay, plus it's 5 highs. But every time he had to look at it he'd vomit. To each their own I guess, personally I quite like how the bellicose looks. Also this thread is about what's a good anti frigate cruiser, not what cruiser would win a beauty contest... It can't be a good anti-frig platform if the pilot is throwing up every time he looks at his screen now can it? I win!
Agor Dirdonen	Posted - 2008.12.21 18:45:00 - [26] Edited by: Agor Dirdonen on 21/12/2008 18:47:00 I see some med gun setups here. Tbh, I'd go for frig guns if you're focusing on anti-frig... You can count on your speed to stay outside of scram range but when an AF gets under your guns and scrams your mwd to silence, you're going down. Web won't help, TP won't help, you're just not hitting it anymore. Hope your warrior II's can pop him before he pops them otherwise you're toast. Why go for med guns if you're specifically going for frigs? Frig guns hit em hard and easy.
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2008.12.21 18:49:00 - [27] dual web arby w/ a flight of warrior II's. Nice thing is it's not useless outside of anti-frig work, you can still go head to head with other cruisers, HACs or BCs and come out on top. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.12.21 18:53:00 - [28] [Maller, Maller] Heat Sink II Overdrive Injector System II Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 10MN Afterburner II Large Shield Extender II Medium Ohm Capacitor Reserve I Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S With the MPL II's grouped, one-shot-pop to any frigate, 2 to 3 volleys on Destroyers, and plenty of tank to chew up some of the bigger stuff. Sometimes I cannot target the frigates fast enough to keep up with the guns.
Novantco The Tuskers	Posted - 2008.12.21 19:12:00 - [29] Arbitrator or a Vexor.
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2008.12.21 20:52:00 - [30] Originally by: Novantco Arbitrator or a Vexor. +1 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"



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