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Dont buy ISK !

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Wotlankor Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.23 10:51:00 - [1] [OOC] ISK buyer goes to court (and loose) ! http://wotlankor.com/?p=190 Verdict: http://www.domstol.dk/oestrelandsret/nyheder/Pressemeddelelser/Pages/Pressemeddelelse(Betalingmedelektroniskepengeviabetalingskort.aspx
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.12.23 10:55:00 - [2] It's like buying a wrecked car and then suing the seller because the car isn't working... -------- Ideas for: Mining
Alexis Romanovus	Posted - 2008.12.23 10:56:00 - [3] Got that in english?
Wotlankor Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.23 10:58:00 - [4] Sorry no. The danish court dont translate. That I know of anyway. But I assume you can use a google translator.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.12.23 11:02:00 - [5] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 23/12/2008 11:02:42 lol too bad for him then. CCP told 300 times that all the virtual isk are theirs. -edit- 404 for both pages btw Fetchez la vache !
Maria Kalista	Posted - 2008.12.23 11:10:00 - [6] Edited by: Maria Kalista on 23/12/2008 11:10:29 13.500 Euro over a period of 3 months That's just nuckinfuts! Originally by: AkRoYeR ...the beauty of EvE. You have to live on the edge all the time. If you don't stay frosty, you will die! Best game ever!
Kazuma Saruwatari Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.23 11:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Maria Kalista Edited by: Maria Kalista on 23/12/2008 11:10:29 13.500 Euro over a period of 3 months That's just nuckinfuts! Too much money with too little brains. Simple really -
Jooley	Posted - 2008.12.23 11:40:00 - [8] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Too much money with too little brains. Simple really Thats ALOT of ISK.
The AEther Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2008.12.23 11:42:00 - [9] funny ... so they took the money and then refused to sell CCP's property to him
Ozstar Naughty 40	Posted - 2008.12.23 11:50:00 - [10] Internet Spaceships are serious business.
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.12.23 12:17:00 - [11] Heres the verdict in English: Eastern Regional Court has today handed down a ruling in principle on the use of a VISA / card to prepay for a service bought over the Internet. The case concerns whether such a payment made by electronic funds transfer via the Internet company PayPal can be reclaimed by the card holder to the issuer, because it bought the service is not delivered. Consumer Ombudsman has in its guidelines, 16 December 1996 concerning distance, etc. in payment by debit card provides that the bank should make a refund in such situations - so-called charge-back, but Eastern High came to the Consumer Ombudsman's guidelines did not apply in that situation. There was talk about non-delivery of goods in the form of virtual services that the buyer had paid and booked with game company OwnYourGame for delivery of Internet game EVEonline. The payment was done using the buyer's VISA / card through PayPal, a provider and facilitator of payments with electronic money. The virtual services, which had a total value of ca.100.000 kroner, was bought over a period of approximately. 3 months in several steps. Since there after several reminders still not happened delivery, the buyer looking to the Nordea Bank Denmark A / S ( "Nordea"), which was issued by his VISA / Credit, with the request that Nordea, the charge back in line with the Consumer Ombudsman's guidelines. Nordea announced that payment for the virtual services were made through PayPal, and that therefore the payment was made with electronic money and not with a debit card. In our view, the Consumer Ombudsman's guidelines therefore not apply. The buyer then filed a complaint with Pengeinstitutankenµvnet that in a majority decision required the bank to pay the money back. Nordea does not want to be bound by Pengeinstitutankenµvnet decision, and Consumer introduced the matter for Copenhagen Byret, which referred the case to the Eastern Regional. During the High Court treatment occurred Consumer Ombudsman as biintervenient in support of the buyer, while PBS International A / S occurred as biintervenient in support of Nordea, which was represented by Finance Council. It was during the proceedings including indicated that VISA had reached agreement with PayPal on receipt of VISA payments, but not to disseminate VISA payments. It was also reported that VISA had not reached agreement with gaming company on receipt of VISA payments, and the game company's website does not contain a VISA logo. The buyer could therefore only pay for the virtual services with its VISA / card if he paid through PayPal. Appeal Court gave Nordea is successful in that the law as opposed to Pengeinstitutankenµvnet majority found that the Consumer Ombudsman's guidelines do not apply in the case. Nordea was therefore not following these guidelines required to make charge back. Land Court's decision in this case is justified as follows: Consumer Ombudsman's guidelines on remote sales, etc. in payment by debit card, 16 December 1996 issued under the law were in force on debit Section 12a, paragraph. 2 (now tender section 4, paragraph. 3) and were in force, marketing Law 17 (now Marketing Act, Section 24). The wording of the Consumer Ombudsman's guidelines section. 1, that they apply in payment by debit card. It is also assumed that there will be an update of the guidelines before they can apply to electronic payment without credit cards. Since such an update has not been made, it must be asserted that the guidelines apply only to payments made in payment by debit card. Neither the Consumer Ombudsman's guidelines or text or comments to the Law on payment cards, has further defined the concept of "payment by debit card." Court finds, however, that a natural understanding of the concept leads to a payment only to the parties, in addition to card issuer has entered into an agreement with him to give, receive or convey a payment using a debit card.
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.12.23 12:17:00 - [12] The defense disputed that the card issuer, VISA, has not concluded a indl°sningsaftale with OwnYourGame and OwnYourGame therefore not eligible to receive payments made with a VISA card. It is also reported that VISA and PayPal has signed a indl°sningsaftale, but not a mediation agreement, and that PayPal therefore only be eligible to receive payments made with a VISA card. Under those circumstances, the High Court that Consumer Ombudsman's guidelines, which was developed following consultations with the parties concerned, can not be extended in relation to a payee, are not covered by that payment. It noted that the [NAME] with his VISA card is purchased and delivered e-money by PayPal. The fact that PayPal in agreement with [NAME] has used the purchase e-money to pay benefits to which he has purchased from OwnYourGame, visa system is irrelevant. The fact that there is a temporal correlation between [NAME] purchase of e-money and their use for payment for services by OwnYourGame may not lead to a different result. As a result, the Court of the Fiscal Council, acting on behalf of Nordea Bank Denmark A / S disused unfounded claim.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.12.23 12:20:00 - [13] Originally by: The AEther funny ... so they took the money and then refused to sell CCP's property to him It's not a property sale, it's a service agreement. You hire them to accumulate a certain amount of ISK for you. If they'd do it the other way, they'd be vulnerable to lawsuits on selling property they do not own. And as long as they give out the ordered ISK, the service agreement was fulfilled. That CCP takes the ISK away again is something the customer (should) know and as such its own responsibility. Buying ISK is like picking up the soap and hoping no one notices. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2008.12.23 12:32:00 - [14] An expensive lesson learned. CCP should link this on the front page tbh.
Ombey Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.23 12:32:00 - [15] Originally by: EBANK Ricdic Pengeinstitutankenµvnet Awesome name! My next character is going to be called that. "Primary is Pengein..Peng...Pengein....nvm" -- 2d EveMaps\|My blog
Kikki Di'je Lay Low	Posted - 2008.12.23 14:15:00 - [16] Edited by: Kikki Di''je on 23/12/2008 14:15:48 I'm slightly confused here. Dude bought stuff, charged his VISA, and paid with Pay Pal, but didn't get anything in return, and sued, then lost? The converted verdict in english has a bit lost in translation. Why did they go with the bank and not the guy? Thought that was Pay Pal's savior....you got your money back if you didn't get your goods. edit: am I understanding correctly that it was a technicality because the bank didn't get his visa charge, they got a paypal charge?
Wotlankor Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.23 14:34:00 - [17] Technical he takes his VISA and buys electronic credit at PayPal. Now he has bouth something and gotten his credits and PayPal and the Bank has fullfilled their part. He then goes to an ISK seller and buys ISK with electronic credit. What he buys with his electronic credit does not concern the bank as long as he got his credits, which he did. That he then use the credit and down get anything in return (or CCP has removed it) is a relation between PayPal and the ISK seller. You buy a car from me. You sell the car to someone. Someone does not pay you. = You are now short of the money you bought the car of me, but it aint my faul that someone did not pay you. That is between you (ISK buyer) and whoever (PayPal) you sold it through. Not meant to patronize, I just keep it simple.
Ricdics Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2008.12.23 14:48:00 - [18] Excellent simplification Wotlankor
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council.	Posted - 2008.12.23 14:50:00 - [19] Originally by: Malcanis An expensive lesson learned. CCP should link this on the front page tbh. Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
Slade Trillgon Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.23 14:56:00 - [20] Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 23/12/2008 14:57:12 Originally by: Abrazzar Buying ISK is like picking up the soap and hoping no one notices. That about sums it up The following has to do with the numbering and digit representation and not the actual monetary conversion so I left out the actual monies letter representations. I assume that 100.000 and 13.500 is something like 100,000 and 13,500 respectively. Is the (.) used as a comma is used in the U.S. monetary system? Slade Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat! ≡v≡
Wotlankor Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.23 15:01:00 - [21] Originally by: Slade Trillgon I assume that 100.000 and 13.500 is something like 100,000 and 13,500 respectively. Is the (.) used as a comma is used in the U.S. monetary system? Slade Actualy danes use the "." so a million would look like 1.000.000,00
Farrellus Cameron Sturmgrenadier Inc Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.12.23 18:20:00 - [22] For the love of all that is holy, the word is "LOSE." One "o." Loose is like when an animal gets loose. Lose is like when you lose a game. LOSE. One "o." Why do so many people make that mistake? It drives me crazy. ----------------------------------------------------
Xen Gin Universal Mining Inc Forged Dominion	Posted - 2008.12.23 18:34:00 - [23] Originally by: Farrellus Cameron For the love of all that is holy, the word is "LOSE." One "o." Loose is like when an animal gets loose. Lose is like when you lose a game. LOSE. One "o." Why do so many people make that mistake? It drives me crazy. Maybe it should be Lose and Lōse. (I think that's right)
Slade Trillgon Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.23 20:08:00 - [24] Originally by: Farrellus Cameron Why do so many people make that mistake? Specifically too drive you crazy Do you see what I did there Slade Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat! ≡v≡
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar Ninjas N Pirates	Posted - 2008.12.23 20:29:00 - [25] The logs show nothing!
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.12.24 09:01:00 - [26] Originally by: Maria Kalista Edited by: Maria Kalista on 23/12/2008 11:10:29 13.500 Euro over a period of 3 months That's just nuckinfuts! lol... would be sooo cool if someone in EVE bought ISK for that sum of money. ANd the day after seeing the money confiscated by CCP and his/her account banned! ... Wonder if the isk buyer would have tried suing CCP for stealing his/her isk for a value of 13.500 euro...? Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
Gemmell Independent Traders Ignition.	Posted - 2008.12.24 11:47:00 - [27] Sad thing is if he had legally bought ISK (GTCs) for E13,500 he would of had 405 Billion ISK. Guess he took the risk of losing it for slightly more?:P
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2008.12.24 18:09:00 - [28] Originally by: Gemmell Sad thing is if he had legally bought ISK (GTCs) for E13,500 he would of had 405 Billion ISK. Guess he took the risk of losing it for slightly more?:P I have to wonder what the hell he'd have needed more than 400B for...
Meek Wriggle	Posted - 2008.12.24 19:54:00 - [29] Originally by: Wotlankor The danish court dont translate. Fascists.
ceaon Gallente Porandor	Posted - 2008.12.24 21:15:00 - [30] 13.500 Çuro OMFG blah

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