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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Budrick3	Posted - 2008.12.23 18:12:00 - [1] ok, so im ****ing around looking at stuff cause im bored, and i wanted to look at some of the ships n junk. And when i click on the Items database, it comes up with some Eve wiki junk? I hope they have not removed the items database implace of this. I just hope that it is a coding error. Someone please confirm and put to rest my fears. o7 thanks
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.12.23 18:13:00 - [2] C confirming we are all ****ed! --
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2008.12.23 18:15:00 - [3] There is an identical item database button on the wiki page and it is actually up-to-date.
Angel Lightbringer Caldari Dark Evolution Industries	Posted - 2008.12.23 18:16:00 - [4] Originally by: Budrick3 ok, so im **ing around looking at stuff cause im bored, and i wanted to look at some of the ships n junk. And when i click on the Items database, it comes up with some Eve wiki junk? I hope they have not removed the items database implace of this.** In fact, thay have, junk. Didn't you get the memo? o/ -Angel
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.12.23 18:17:00 - [5] Originally by: Budrick3 ok, so im ****ing around looking at stuff cause im bored, and i wanted to look at some of the ships n junk. And when i click on the Items database, it comes up with some Eve wiki junk? I hope they have not removed the items database implace of this. I just hope that it is a coding error. Someone please confirm and put to rest my fears. o7 thanks http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Item_Database
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.12.23 18:22:00 - [6] Originally by: Robacz Originally by: Budrick3 ok, so im **ing around looking at stuff cause im bored, and i wanted to look at some of the ships n junk. And when i click on the Items database, it comes up with some Eve wiki junk? I hope they have not removed the items database implace of this. I just hope that it is a coding error. Someone please confirm and put to rest my fears. o7 thanks http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Item_Database Originally by:** "at bottom of any item DB page" The details above have been created by our wiki robot. Sadly the robot has failed to copy over any NPC market information that was a part of the Item Database. Making it a PITA for newer players to find out which NPC corps sell which BPO's and which NPC corps buy and/or sell specific NPC trade good. --
Arous Drephius Perkone	Posted - 2008.12.23 18:24:00 - [7] Originally by: Treelox Sadly the robot has failed to copy over any NPC market information that was a part of the Item Database. Making it a PITA for newer players to find out which NPC corps sell which BPO's and which NPC corps buy and/or sell specific NPC trade good. It didn't fail, it was intentional. CCP removed the info from the DB dump as well.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.12.23 18:28:00 - [8] Originally by: Arous Drephius Originally by: Treelox Sadly the robot has failed to copy over any NPC market information that was a part of the Item Database. Making it a PITA for newer players to find out which NPC corps sell which BPO's and which NPC corps buy and/or sell specific NPC trade good. It didn't fail, it was intentional. CCP removed the info from the DB dump as well. Without a post from CCP as to a reason this was "intentionally" removed, it sure sounds like "fail" to me. Maybe it isnt the wikirobots fault, then I is just someone in Icelands instead. --

CCP Atropos C C P	Posted - 2008.12.23 18:35:00 - [9] The NPC market info was removed from the data dump, and the wiki is populated from that same dump. I can't comment on whether or not it was a concious decision to not have the data available, even on the wiki, but it is not currently there.

Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.12.23 18:45:00 - [10] Originally by: CCP Atropos The NPC market info was removed from the data dump, and the wiki is populated from that same dump. I can't comment on whether or not it was a concious decision to not have the data available, even on the wiki, but it is not currently there. This removal has started a bit of "rabble rabble" in a few places in the forums. Evewiki blog thread Game Dev Forum I know I saw a few other threads over the last few days, but cant find them quickly atm. --

CCP Explorer	Posted - 2008.12.23 19:40:00 - [11] Regarding "crpNPCCorporationTrades": Here's the dev blog from when we released the Static Data Export Database (the Empyrean Age version) in July as well as previous forum reply #1, reply #2 and reply #3. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games

MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.12.23 19:57:00 - [12] CCP Explorer is on the case!
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.12.23 21:01:00 - [13] Once the cat's out of the bag, had children and the children had children, there's really no point in sealing the bag anymore, you know, just saying... might just as well reopen it wide. _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Arrs Grazznic Poena Executive Solutions	Posted - 2008.12.23 22:54:00 - [14] The NPC sales data wasvery useful, for example it was the best (only?) way to find out which NPC corps sold which BPOs. Cheers, Arrs
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.12.23 23:28:00 - [15] Originally by: Arrs Grazznic The NPC sales data wasvery useful, for example it was the best (only?) way to find out which NPC corps sold which BPOs. Cheers, Arrs Agreed. While it's not too difficult to guess where to look for a Dominix BPO, for example, I don't see how the game benefits from forcing people to wander empire space trying to find which of the four factions hosts the NPC corp that sells Capital Sensor BPOs. Perhaps we can get this information back for things like NPC-sold BPOs, but not for things like trade goods? As to the comment about this being gone for quite a while, that's not true. The information was available through the item database until the wiki supplanted it. And for those of us who have never even contemplated looking for the "crpNPCCorporationTrades" table in a data dump, the supposed removal was transparent until a week or two ago. -- Becq Starforged The Flame of Freedom Burns On!
Dmian Gallente Gallenterrorisme	Posted - 2008.12.24 00:02:00 - [16] Is it me or the "Item Database" link on the left bar is taking you to the Main Page (http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Main_Page) of the Evelopedia and not the Item Database (http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Item_Database) on it? Also, in the Reply form (when you hit "Reply to Topic") it's still the link to the old Item Database. ---- Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here
Jacque Custeau Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2008.12.24 02:19:00 - [17] Edited by: Jacque Custeau on 24/12/2008 02:24:31 The profit one could make from NPC trade routes was long since nerfed in 2004. Trying to hide this data now is useless. And like someone else said, this makes BPOs and POS structures a lot harder to find. Some, like the Energy Neutralizer Battery can only be found in Viziam stations, which only exist in Tash Murkon. What will likely happen is some third party like Chribba will set up a list for this sort of stuff. Another example of CCP outsourcing functionality to its customers. -------------------
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.12.24 06:53:00 - [18] Originally by: CCP Explorer Regarding "crpNPCCorporationTrades": Here's the dev blog from when we released the Static Data Export Database (the Empyrean Age version) in July as well as previous forum reply #1, reply #2 and reply #3. While I understand the logic given in "reply #1", it would of made sense if this had been done years ago. All the removal of the NPC market information does now is hurt new industrialist looking for the location of NPC order BPO's. As Akita says, the cat has been out of the bag way to long to be forced back in. This seems like a half thought out move that will only hurt those newer to the game, while empowering the older more seasoned player base. --
Wadaya Caldari Trailerpark Industries	Posted - 2009.01.02 11:02:00 - [19] Edited by: Wadaya on 02/01/2009 11:04:22 Originally by: Jacque Custeau Edited by: Jacque Custeau on 24/12/2008 02:24:31 The profit one could make from NPC trade routes was long since nerfed in 2004. Trying to hide this data now is useless. And like someone else said, this makes BPOs and POS structures a lot harder to find. Some, like the Energy Neutralizer Battery can only be found in Viziam stations, which only exist in Tash Murkon. What will likely happen is some third party like Chribba will set up a list for this sort of stuff. Another example of CCP outsourcing functionality to its customers. No joke, why not name the next expansion, Eve-Online: Quantum Time Sink. I was going to go in an edit the wiki, but it's locked
Braaage Ministry of Craft	Posted - 2009.01.02 11:33:00 - [20] There are plenty of other Item databases about other than CCPs. Like this Or this -- POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, Character Generator & more
Cordele	Posted - 2009.01.02 14:52:00 - [21] Originally by: Braaage There are plenty of other Item databases about other than CCPs. Like this Or this Neither show NPC market data, which is the main problem with the new EVElopedia Database.

CCP Atropos C C P	Posted - 2009.01.02 14:53:00 - [22] Originally by: Cordele Originally by: Braaage There are plenty of other Item databases about other than CCPs. Like this Or this Neither show NPC market data, which is the main problem with the new EVElopedia Database. If you read CCP Explorer's response above you will see that this is by design.

Cordele	Posted - 2009.01.02 15:06:00 - [23] Originally by: CCP Atropos Originally by: Cordele Originally by: Braaage There are plenty of other Item databases about other than CCPs. Like this Or this Neither show NPC market data, which is the main problem with the new EVElopedia Database. If you read CCP Explorer's response above you will see that this is by design. I have, and I know. The consensus though seems to be that it's bad design, and there hasn't been a proper explanation as to why the data (which, as has been explained above, was very useful) was taken out.
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2009.01.02 16:17:00 - [24] Originally by: Cordele there hasn't been a proper explanation as to why the data (which, as has been explained above, was very useful) was taken out. Quote: this is by design. Looks pretty proper to me
Cordele	Posted - 2009.01.02 17:33:00 - [25] Edited by: Cordele on 02/01/2009 17:37:08 Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Cordele there hasn't been a proper explanation as to why the data (which, as has been explained above, was very useful) was taken out. Quote: this is by design. Looks pretty proper to me That isn't an explanation, just a confirmation it isn't an oversight. The closest we've had to an explanation that I know of is this quote from Explorer: Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Epitrope There was some discussion in the forum thread for that dev blog about crpNPCCorporationTrades returning in some limited way, such as without the supplyDemand column, and just a way to indicate whether a given corporation buys or sells an item. Is that still a possibility? It could be that it might a possibility, but that discussion has not reached me. There was a good reason why the table was excluded and those concerns would have to be alleviated. What were those concerns? There is this quote from Prism from when the information was originally removed from the data export: Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is crpNPCCorporationTrades missing? Well, it should really never have been included. This is basicaly meta-data and could allow people to get an advantage they couldn't otherwise get in game. Something like finding out what is being sold in regions they've never been in would be a good example. Finding the best possible trade routes through some datamining would be another. I'm sorry if the mismatch has wasted anyones time. But this was from before the information was removed from the Item Database (which is an effect that only showed up recently when the latest data without the NPC Market table was used for the EVElopedia), and Prism seems to have been referring to values that only appeared in the Data Export, as judging by this quote he was willing to consider including the kind of basic helpful information that used to show in the Item Database in the next export: Originally by: Matalino If you insist on providing such an advantage to us veterns, I guess we will need to accept it, but I think that it would be better for newer players and developers if you returned it to the official data dump, even if you flattened the supplyDemand field to contain a true/false value instead of the previous range of values that might be mined for additional information. Originally by: CCP Prism X As to a true/false values, that might happen. I'll try and jot it down on my notebook when I get to work and bring it up when the time is right, before the next export. This was the result of the discussion that was mentioned to Explorer in the first quote, that he wasn't aware of. The issue here is that the information that used to show up in the Item Database that was very helpful to people needing to find T1 and capital blueprints, or for sourcing NPC supplied goods, has now (due to some esoteric values in the data export that the people responsible for it were unhappy with) been removed without an explanation to those of us, like me, who were just using the Item Database as a convenient reference and would probably have never known what was in the full data export.
Breaker77	Posted - 2009.01.02 17:43:00 - [26] Originally by: Arrs Grazznic The NPC sales data wasvery useful, for example it was the best (only?) way to find out which NPC corps sold which BPOs. Cheers, Arrs Can't you check out regions yourself? Then again that does require work Guess you will have to buy them at inflated prices when the traders make their rounds
Cordele	Posted - 2009.01.02 17:54:00 - [27] Originally by: Breaker77 Originally by: Arrs Grazznic The NPC sales data wasvery useful, for example it was the best (only?) way to find out which NPC corps sold which BPOs. Cheers, Arrs Can't you check out regions yourself? Then again that does require work Guess you will have to buy them at inflated prices when the traders make their rounds The Item Database covered all T1 BPOs, most of which are relatively low value, one-time purchases. Also, the information is still available to anyone with access to old data exports, but getting hold of and using those requires some specialist knowledge and skill that new players aren't likely to have.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2009.01.02 18:12:00 - [28] Um, for all this complaining over information being removed, you all seem to forget that it's a wiki. Just add it back in yourself. - Lotto - Paladin! Cruiser BPC Store
Wingshard Orgasmotech	Posted - 2009.01.02 18:24:00 - [29] Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Um, for all this complaining over information being removed, you all seem to forget that it's a wiki. Just add it back in yourself. So whats the sense in removing it when it can be added again? NONE, exactly what all this is about... its total NONSENSE and causes only more struggle for anyone who wants a quick information.
Malthros Zenobia The Cold Wind Foundation	Posted - 2009.01.02 18:37:00 - [30] 1. Log into Wiki 2. Make page with info you want. 3. ???? 4. Profit! Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.

CCP Explorer	Posted - 2009.01.02 21:16:00 - [31] Originally by: Cordele That isn't an explanation, just a confirmation it isn't an oversight. The closest we've had to an explanation that I know of is this quote from Explorer: Originally by: CCP Explorer It could be that it might a possibility, but that discussion has not reached me. There was a good reason why the table was excluded and those concerns would have to be alleviated. What were those concerns? There is this quote from Prism from when the information was originally removed from the data export: Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is crpNPCCorporationTrades missing? Well, it should really never have been included. This is basicaly meta-data and could allow people to get an advantage they couldn't otherwise get in game. Something like finding out what is being sold in regions they've never been in would be a good example. Finding the best possible trade routes through some datamining would be another. I'm sorry if the mismatch has wasted anyones time. But this was from before the information was removed from the Item Database (which is an effect that only showed up recently when the latest data without the NPC Market table was used for the EVElopedia), and Prism seems to have been referring to values that only appeared in the Data Export, as judging by this quote he was willing to consider including the kind of basic helpful information that used to show in the Item Database in the next export. Please note that today there is no difference between the information in the Static Data Export Database (SDEDB) and the web-based Item Database (WebItemDB), it's the same data. Part of the overall project we have been working on for the last 6 months is to consolidate the information we publish and not publish some data only in a certain medium/format, and another part is to base all projects such as the WebItemDB on top of the SDEDB (static data) and the EVE API (real-time data) to simplify development and updating, for us, for our development partners and for independent 3rd parties that develop EVE-related content. A note on the timing: crpNPCCorporationTrades was removed from the SDEDB in July last year when its structure and deployment was overhauled. The same data was not removed from the old item database at that time, since work was ongoing on EVElopedia, which included implementing the new WebItemDB using the SDEDB as the source. Instead the old item database was kept unchanged until the development of EVElopedia was complete. That work is now done and the "Item Database" link on the EVE and MyEVE web sites now points to the WebItemDB on EVElopedia. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games

Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2009.01.02 21:43:00 - [32] Explorer, no offense but the whole announcement, the topic of the annoucement in relation to the on-line item database, the timing of the annoucement and the lag till it effected the on-line item database, and the rational behind the change all leave me feeling a bit disaffected. I think the following quote(s) from the "great book" can sum up my feelings perfectly; "There's no point in acting all surprised about it. All the planning charts and demolition orders have been on display in your local planning department in Alpha Centauri for fifty of your Earth years, so you'vehad plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it's far too late to start making a fuss about it now" "What do you mean, you've never been to Alpha Centauri? For heaven's sake, mankind, it's only four light-years away, you know. I'm sorry, but if you cant be bothered to take an interest in local affairs that's your own lookout." "Energize the demolition beams." --
Wadaya Caldari Trailerpark Industries	Posted - 2009.01.02 21:52:00 - [33] Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Um, for all this complaining over information being removed, you all seem to forget that it's a wiki. Just add it back in yourself. You can't edit the item data part of the wiki, which is one of the points if you'd bothered to actually read before posting.
zacuis Great Big Research	Posted - 2009.01.02 23:11:00 - [34] treelox i couldnt have put it better my self. ccp you gotta be crazy removing this info from us. im sure every one that ever bought a bpo will sign a petition to have it put back
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:38:00 - [35] The removal of this information is epic fail.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:46:00 - [36] The new Wiki page for the item DB is still full of 'meh' for me since blueprints still lack the crucial Time to Copy/Time to Manufacture/Time to ME Research/Time to PE research, as well as the bill of materials for those things. This stuff is important because when I'm theorycrafting away from a client, I need to look for other sources for this info instead of just coming here, which is silly
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2009.01.12 22:47:00 - [37] Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 12/01/2009 22:49:46 Without this resource, finding T1 BPOs can be an extremely tedious process, especially if you have no idea which corp builds them. You can still look up all the NPC corporations 1 by 1 ingame (and on the website) and see what they sell, so the same information is still public, only much more laborious to sift through. I suppose this is another part of the website that's going to be removed?
Myrhial Arkenath Ghost Festival	Posted - 2009.01.13 09:14:00 - [38] If you are going to let players add extra information to the wiki pages you may as well do it yourself CCP, saves you a whole damn lot of time having to verify everything that has been added. If not, I do hope that players adding where certain blueprints are on sale will be allowed?

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