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Cynos and Disposable Ships

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Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.12.23 19:23:00 - [1] Capital ships aren't soloboats. This is pretty much obvious, as you need another ship to even move around. However, I think disposable cyno alts in dirt cheap T1 frigs has made it too easy to move stuff around. I'd like to see the ability for dirt cheap t1 frigs and such to drop cynos removed. Give that role to the force recons. Make capital ships more of a group tool that requires group action (Maybe even scouting and protection) to move around...not just an extra $15/month for a cyno alt...or risk getting a rather expensive cynoship popped. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers	Posted - 2008.12.23 19:25:00 - [2] Make the game even more tedious and annoying. Good idea.
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Frigateers Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.12.23 19:30:00 - [3] Frankly I dislike metagaming and it'd be cooler if people could just work together as a team. But they call me a dreamer. ............. Now recruiting like-minded pilots.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.12.23 19:31:00 - [4] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Make the game even more tedious and annoying. Good idea. Massive capital ships shouldn't exactly be easy to move. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers	Posted - 2008.12.23 19:33:00 - [5] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Make the game even more tedious and annoying. Good idea. Massive capital ships shouldn't exactly be easy to move. So you don't fly one and don't have a clue about what it is to move them around. No need to make a features/ideas post to announce it.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.12.23 19:39:00 - [6] Since we're in the mood to make stupid posts that ignore the issue Quote: So you don't fly one and don't have a clue about what it is to move them around. No need to make a features/ideas post to announce it. So you're too damn lazy to scout a system or arrange for protection for your cynoship when you move your capships around. No need to annouce it. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers	Posted - 2008.12.23 19:50:00 - [7] Originally by: Kahega Amielden ignore the issue Don't confuse ignoring the issue with not recognizing it. Your entire argument is based upon non-experience and false premises. Hence the conclusion, and the entire argument goes out the window.
Straight Chillen Gallente Solar Wind	Posted - 2008.12.23 20:05:00 - [8] I dont see why this is such a big issue... Did a kestrel cyno a big bad carrier on you? **** happens Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.12.23 20:20:00 - [9] Originally by: Straight Chillen I dont see why this is such a big issue... Did a kestrel cyno a big bad carrier on you? ** happens It wouldn't make it really any harder to cyno, it would just require you risk a good amount of ISK if you don't protect your cynoship. As Joe said, people working together to maintain a group asset is a good thing. Originally by:** Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers	Posted - 2008.12.23 20:52:00 - [10] Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 23/12/2008 20:52:13 You're a bit of a broken record. Your assumption is that moving capitals is easy. It isn't, there is no other ship that requires at least two people to move them. You require a cyno at every point, fuel for every jump, and as it is now: if you use frigs and travel alone, you lose that frig every time. You claim that disabling frigs to be able to make cynos will encourage team-work. It really won't. It will just make capitals more of a hassle to move around for those who aren't affiliated to large groups. Strongly limiting the ability for individuals to own and use capitals without suffering your so called ideal of "teamwork". You're not really thinking about the solo-players out there to whom carriers are the easiest way of traveling with their equipment without having an aneurism. Forcing them to lose eg. falcons every time they move a frig around will only create additional hassles. And it really only victimizes those who aren't in big groups/alliances. Where you say teamwork I hear "hive mind / blob". Limiting solo-players or smaller corporations from being able to use capital ships for logistics & combat seems very contra-productive. And it's really only the smaller groups that really would be affected by this change. Bigger alliances oftenly (almost always) move their capitals in a big group - their cyno ships, whether they are frigates or battleships are never/almost never in harms way. So what you're really asking for is making it more tedious for individuals & smaller groups to use capital ships. This sounds like mere envy, and not really an issue with the game.

Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.12.23 21:40:00 - [11] Capital ships are massive investments. I don't think it should be feasible for an individual to own/use one. As for a smaller group, I don't see the issue. If it's much of a group at all then I can't imagine it would be too hard for someone to come help...for scouting or protection. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers	Posted - 2008.12.23 22:50:00 - [12] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Capital ships are massive investments. I don't think it should be feasible for an individual to own/use one. As for a smaller group, I don't see the issue. If it's much of a group at all then I can't imagine it would be too hard for someone to come help...for scouting or protection. ... and this is why you're not a game designer.
doobey Minmatar ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.23 23:26:00 - [13] Edited by: doobey on 23/12/2008 23:26:46 bad idea. its hard enough to move a cap ship around as it is, let alone forcing a capital pilot to solely rely on his corp to move him around. how about ccp make force recons invunrable whilst poping a cyno becon? much better idea
NE Weevil The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2008.12.23 23:35:00 - [14] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Make the game even more tedious and annoying. Good idea. Massive capital ships shouldn't exactly be easy to move. They aren't easy to move. They take loads of fuel, mostly don't jump too far and the ship you use to create a cyno field almost always dies. You clearly don't have a capital or you would not have made this noob topic. I advise you buy and try one before you post again.
Ashley Thomas Kiith Paktu Nex Eternus	Posted - 2008.12.24 06:17:00 - [15] ^ reason why no one uses recons to cyno if you put a giant pop me sign on a ship, the ship will get popped.
Draconis Amarr Out of Order	Posted - 2008.12.24 06:26:00 - [16] Simply put... solo players shouldn't be able to own a carrier. it should be a fleet support/heavy hitter. Real carriers don't go ****in' around by themselves, and EVE one's shouldn't either. If a player can't amass the resources (people, fuel) then they shouldn't be in the ship. I agree fully that a noob alt in a frigate shouldn't be able to pop Cyno. That should be for Cyno orientated ships. It would balance EVE out a bit.
Ashley Thomas Kiith Paktu Nex Eternus	Posted - 2008.12.24 06:42:00 - [17] if your gonna turn moving capitols around into a huge hassle then no one will bother with them. no one. simply put. carebears, cap pilots, alliances (big and small) will hate your guts.
doobey Minmatar ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.24 06:50:00 - [18] Originally by: Draconis Edited by: Draconis on 24/12/2008 06:30:45 Anyone who uses a capital ship for anything other than fleet combat shouldn't have one... It's a capital war ship not a god damn luxury cruise liner / freighter. If capital ships were designed purely for combat then why are carriers fitted with corp hangers and ship maintence bays? How excactly would one move all of their rigged ships fifty jumps through hostile space then? Surely you wouldn't expect someone to run them backwards and fowards one by one would you. That would make the game far more interesting now wouldnt it This topic is just pure fail.
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.24 06:56:00 - [19] Originally by: Draconis Edited by: Draconis on 24/12/2008 06:30:45 Simply put... solo players shouldn't be able to own a carrier. it should be a fleet support/heavy hitter. Real carriers don't go **in' around by themselves, and EVE one's shouldn't either. If a player can't amass the resources (people, fuel) then they shouldn't be in the ship. I agree fully that a noob alt in a frigate shouldn't be able to pop Cyno. That should be for Cyno orientated ships. It would balance EVE out a bit. Originally by:** Ashley Thomas ^ reason why no one uses recons to cyno if you put a giant pop me sign on a ship, the ship will get popped. Reason why recons should be the only ships to Cyno. If you're going to be bombin' around in a capital ship you should have a fleet to back it up. If you're puttin' up a giant pop me sign, then you should expect a fight. Anyone who uses a capital ship for anything other than fleet combat shouldn't have one... It's a capital war ship not a god damn luxury cruise liner / freighter. Real Carriers aren't owned by mercenaries and flown around space so we should also restrict ownership to the Factions and make them only usable on ocean planets. Get a clue, RL is no basis for what goes on in eve.
Dhejay Centrix Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2008.12.24 10:12:00 - [20] Edited by: Dhejay Centrix on 24/12/2008 10:12:33 Originally by: Draconis Simply put... solo players shouldn't be able to own a carrier. It's an object that can be sold on the market, how do you propose this should be changed? Cynos should be mountable on anything purely because they are a "pop me" sign as has been said several times already. If this idea was implemented it would only mean everyone would train their cyno alt a bit more to fly a recon.

mamolian Cruoris Seraphim	Posted - 2008.12.24 11:04:00 - [21] Its perfectly fine as is.. -----------
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2008.12.24 13:48:00 - [22] There sure is a lot of whinage here in this thread. The OP has a good point though. Why is a cyno still required to jump a ship if anyone with a second account (which everyone and thier brother's friend's dog has) can easily and cheaply provide? It's an outdated game mechanic made obsolete by the proliferation of multiple account game play. Make a cyno mean somthing other then "come pop my noob alt" or remove them from the game.
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2008.12.24 13:59:00 - [23] Why not allow people to generate thier own remote cyno field with the ship they intend to jump? Or with any ship that has the proper module for that matter. Of course there would have to be draw backs to maintain game balance. For example: A remotely generated cyno field would require time to become fully active, but still show up in system on the overview. Say 5 minutes. This would prevent "drive by"s and "hot drop"s because there would be plenty of warning before any ships can actually jump. It would also make a blind jump risky for whoever is doin it. With 5 minutes of warning before you jump, who knows what will be waiting for you when you do. This is just a quick on the fly idea. I'm sure there are plenty of situations I haven't thought of yet. The point remain though, that cyno alts are cheap and easy to exploit.
Emporors Champian	Posted - 2008.12.24 14:11:00 - [24] if you are wanting to move your ship for some reason but your corp in pvp opp or mine opp or other wise unable to help you or you the new guy and not yet made enough comrodery to get that sort of help. what will you do? what is you wanna move while eve has low population but all your corp mates are gone shal i keep making senarios why you suck for thinking this? i have 101 more excuses why you should stfu and leave this alone. how about your in your own corp and you dont trust players to be in your corp. i got more if you want more... how about i open cyno with my titan? lets see you make the mistake of try to kill a cyno frig
doobey Minmatar ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.24 23:11:00 - [25] I really don't see what the big deal is, can someone please explain to me what the problem is? It sounds like: WWAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I was going for an easy gank in low sec but then we got hot dropped by a carrier and I died WWWAAAAAAAAAAA. A carrier is very easy to kill with a few battleships, you just need to hope that the pilot is stupid enough to be out of docking range of a station. So I dont really see what the problem is. When a pilot trains for a capital ship its not like its done and dusted in a month or 2. Its expensive and it takes ages so why should people be penalised because you don't like the game mechanic. What would be the point of having cap ships if it was a logistical nightmare to move them around. I sure as hell wouldn't bother. I am both a dread and carrier pilot and own one of each. All up it owes me around 3 - 4 bill maybe more in ships/skills/fitting/fuel/rigs etc. Why shouldn't it cost me 100k for me to move it around each time. Or have i not invested enough of my own isk yet? As I said before this idea fails.
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.12.25 00:06:00 - [26] really seems like a bad idea to me. It will screw jump freighters over royally. Right now those juicy little cyno frigates make a decent target for solo pirates and drop a small juicy cyno module with some fuel. What this would do is bring 0.0 alliance blobs into low sec, or they would just have to launch poses in low sec. I think the pos would be most likely option, or you wait till you have lots to move and bring a proper blob. ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Lisento Slaven Amarr The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2008.12.25 00:12:00 - [27] Won't effect me too much...most the systems I pop cyno's in are empty or entirely blue. Think I've only lost a cyno ship once and that was because we were a little ballsy about where we were going. I'd say remove frig ability and up it to cruiser, to pop cyno's. What is it...3 mil for a bellicose compared to like...a couple k for a tormenter + cargo expanders? --- Put in space whales!
Sinner aint'no'Saint Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.25 10:51:00 - [28] I actually agree with the OP here, to an extent. I do believe cyno-ing needs to be rethought. Its both too simple/easy AND far too tedious. Putting a cyno onto a cheap frig and parking it next to a station with a fat docking radius virtually guarantees capital safety for only the price of a couple million isk frigate set up. It also means that u can maneuver low sec with very small chance at getting caught in a gate camp. BUT, popping a cyno with a 150m isk recon is an open invitation to a gank from which you cannot escape. Also, a loner player like myself is part of a larger alliance but I am sometimes forced to do my own logistics.... so it still needs to be obtainable for solo players. Could go a new route all-together... make a new cyno-ship. Something like a cruiser that can only fit a cyno, and has enough HP and value to encourage defending it. Maybe like a blockade runner. can fit a mediocre HP tank, can haul ozone and fuel, cant be used on newb alts, maneuver fairly easy through low sec and 0.0 but still have to put up a beacon if they are gonna be cynoing. In fact.. perhaps applying the recon cyno bonuses to blockade runners and I think the problem is solved. could give a tank bonus but no dps like a triage module.. I dunno.. but cynoing is the most frustrating part of capital ships.
SpawnSupreme	Posted - 2008.12.25 12:54:00 - [29] i disagree so much i want to sum it up with a HELL NO!!! but you have to think full circle you not only screw that carrier that you hate so much but you screw jump freighters black ops and i would say titans but you wouldnt wanna make the mistake of being near a titan. that blast everything out of sky wepon is no joke! you want an i win button get in a titan hehe. my corp is filled with cap pilots and all of us move it arround with our alts so i dont think any of them will go for this
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities	Posted - 2008.12.25 13:51:00 - [30] Originally by: Ashley Thomas if your gonna turn moving capitols around into a huge hassle then no one will bother with them. no one. simply put. carebears, cap pilots, alliances (big and small) will hate your guts. Sounds fine to me. Bring more hardcore back into EVE. Regarding the 'discussion', please refrain from using knockout arguments like 'this will make the game unplayable' or 'you don't have a clue'. I honestly think the OP raises a valid point. Cheap disposable alts shouldn't be an integral part of an important and gameworld-shaping game-mechanic, which capital warfare definitely represents. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"



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