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Sekket
Dissident Aggressors
Mordus Angels
18
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Posted - 2012.04.14 18:43:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ioci wrote:Avoid the Damnation, they suck. Only 200K EHP and 4 tracking disruptors for crowd control. They are useless.
Confirming that the damnation is terrible. Plus, missiles? How am I supposed to fight if I'm not missing all the time?
- CQ isn't a refuge, it's a cage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iu4iekX3WE |
Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
452
|
Posted - 2012.04.14 18:55:00 -
[32] - Quote
bldyannoyed wrote:Degren wrote:Dbars Grinding wrote:mining will still be the lowest income in the game. guy makes 100mil mining only to see that the combat ship he wants to buy has risen to 100mil. i dont understand people saying there will be more miners. Maybe if everything was the same price it 3 months ago. At this point i log on to see ship prices and think about going to pvp then loololol and log off. Ill just fly more frigs and cruisers. Because as the price of minerals goes up, the amount of isk/hour you make from mining exceeds that of the isk/hour you get from other sources. Why do people keep asking this question? Is it that hard to figure out? You're both wrong really. Mining is only getting more profitable relative to isk faucets which are, as result of inflation, becoming less valuable. However, as any increase in mining isk/hour can only happen as a direct result of that inflation, the amount of time you must spend mining in order to pay for something is not reduced. The more you make from mining the more you must pay for things. Ofc mining may well end up being the most profitable profession, but even if you could make a billion isk/hour mining it would still take you the same amout of time to save up and buy a battleship as it does now because that battleship will cost 10 billion isk.
it would be cool if you two read my post. 1. i did not ask a question 2. i already said that >< reading comprehension ftl
I have more space likes than you.-á |
Darex Nidor
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.14 19:18:00 -
[33] - Quote
Sasha Azala wrote:I'll never go back to mining, not done that for years.
I'd find it too boring, I don't play MMOs to fall asleep at the keyboard. Back in days mining arkonor in 0.0 brought you 50 mil or so per hour in one Hulk..
PVE and mining, both boring as hell, but mining easier.
I just wish that we go back to that, where battleships are rare and ISK is expensive. |
bldyannoyed
Estrale Frontiers
Project Wildfire
25
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Posted - 2012.04.14 19:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
Dbars Grinding wrote:
it would be cool if you two read my post. 1. i did not ask a question 2. i already said that >< reading comprehension ftl
Thats not what you said at all.
You said mining would still be the lowest income profession.
Noone can tell where the prices will end and mining could potentially end up being worth more isk/hour than anything else. My point is that the only way miners can earn more isk is if inflation continues to drive up mineral prices and that no matter how much isk/hour they earn the amount of time they spend mining to pay for something will never go down.
The amount of time the average missioner/incursion runner/ratter has to do mission/incursion/rat will continue to go up thoughas their income is not increasing with mineral prices.
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Jon Taggart
State War Academy
Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2012.04.14 20:05:00 -
[35] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:The solution to this is massive Hull HP increase for mining craft. Not Armor not shield HULL!
Remove the alpha advantage gankers have and people will mine again.
Any buff to HP would only encourage more people to AFK mine. It's not hard to avoid a suicide gank if you're physically present at your computer.
Mining itself needs to be changed.
Either make it more active or allow players to mine passively similar to Planetary Interaction. |
Degren
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.04.14 22:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
Dbars Grinding wrote:mining will still be the lowest income in the game. guy makes 100mil mining only to see that the combat ship he wants to buy has risen to 100mil. i dont understand people saying there will be more miners. Maybe if everything was the same price it 3 months ago. At this point i log on to see ship prices and think about going to pvp then loololol and log off. Ill just fly more frigs and cruisers.
Degren wrote:Because as the price of minerals goes up, the amount of isk/hour you make from mining exceeds that of the isk/hour you get from other sources.
Dbars Grinding wrote:it would be cool if you two read my post. 1. i did not ask a question 2. i already said that >< reading comprehension ftl
It would be cool if you read my post. You didn't ask a question, but you did state that you didn't understand something, and I explained it. Many other people have phrased it as a question. Reading comprehension ftl. |
Ghoest
326
|
Posted - 2012.04.14 22:47:00 -
[37] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Interestingly, Faction and T2 ships and modules are not raising in price as fast as regular ones.
My guess would be since their price comes mostly from the semi-rarity (and moon goo for T2), the mineral price flux has less effect than T1 stuff.
Thanks Einstein.
Wherever You Went - Here You Are |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I
Ineluctable.
261
|
Posted - 2012.04.14 22:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
I love how people don't grasp the link between minerals and production.
If A increases in price then automaticly B will too.
Regardless if you mine or reprocess. If your mineral income increases due to rising mineral prices then your purchases will increase relativly.
T2 ships require a lot of moonmaterials. Those are affected in their prices in a whole other scale.
A T2 schips cost is divided between moon mats and minerals for the greater part. Now if mineral prices increase this will only affect part of the overall ship cost whereas a T1 ship only requires minerals. Ergo the whole materials needed will increase the shipcost.
This is basic economics for those who seem to miss that part.
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Joran Dravius
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2012.04.15 01:23:00 -
[39] - Quote
I might try mining once in a while if they added some actual gameplay to it. Right now it's basically just turning on your lasers and alt-tabbing to eat Doritos and watch Hulu. |
malcovas Henderson
Smoking Minerals Syndicate
Cannabis Legionis
19
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 02:56:00 -
[40] - Quote
Jon Taggart wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:The solution to this is massive Hull HP increase for mining craft. Not Armor not shield HULL!
Remove the alpha advantage gankers have and people will mine again. Any buff to HP would only encourage more people to AFK mine. It's not hard to avoid a suicide gank if you're physically present at your computer. Mining itself needs to be changed. Either make it more active or allow players to mine passively similar to Planetary Interaction.
Why should it be your concern, how a person plays his game. If he wants to AFK play, that's his right to do so.
I mine occasionally for several hours, quite happily,
o7 |
malcovas Henderson
Smoking Minerals Syndicate
Cannabis Legionis
19
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 03:07:00 -
[41] - Quote
double post |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
147
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 05:54:00 -
[42] - Quote
I USED TO DREAM OF FLYING A DAMNATION... now i sigh & shed a tear and hope I still enjoy Eve a year or two from now when the learning trees are adjusted before I consider trainning for it 
An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the
Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á
crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
Raisa Mole
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 06:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:whats the insurance on a bs & a commandschip?
a command shio bpo can max produce 20ish ships a month.
Taking the example of the Sleipnir: Assume BPO of ME9 (1% waste), PE 19. Mfg time at a station (though I have not calculated profit if you take the 10% mineral hit and mfg at POS with increased mfg time) is 1 day, 4, hrs, 48 minutes = 1.2 days = 25 Sleipnirs/month. Approx 900 were sold in the past 30 days. At ME 9, using current Jita sell prices, mfg costs, including Cyclone and R.A.M. is 215,330, 618 As stated, average sell price today was 242, 442, 910 in Jita. That is a profit of 27,112, 292 / ship. Assuming the T2 owner can sell all 25 into the market of 900 sold in month, that is profit of 677,8097.300 for one mfg slot. That mfg slot of course has zero invention required, zero blueprint copying required. That is not too shabby. And that number is sure going up as more and more BS pilots swap out for command ship, assuming they have the skills.
Is this intended to be a stealth T2 BPO whine? Because I make that much per slot with T1 stuff, so your argument is pretty weak. Your figure basically boils down to 941k isk/hour on that slot, which is matchable with a lot of other things if you know what you're doing. |
Vince Snetterton
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
61
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Posted - 2012.04.15 06:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
Raisa Mole wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:whats the insurance on a bs & a commandschip?
a command shio bpo can max produce 20ish ships a month.
Taking the example of the Sleipnir: Assume BPO of ME9 (1% waste), PE 19. Mfg time at a station (though I have not calculated profit if you take the 10% mineral hit and mfg at POS with increased mfg time) is 1 day, 4, hrs, 48 minutes = 1.2 days = 25 Sleipnirs/month. Approx 900 were sold in the past 30 days. At ME 9, using current Jita sell prices, mfg costs, including Cyclone and R.A.M. is 215,330, 618 As stated, average sell price today was 242, 442, 910 in Jita. That is a profit of 27,112, 292 / ship. Assuming the T2 owner can sell all 25 into the market of 900 sold in month, that is profit of 677,8097.300 for one mfg slot. That mfg slot of course has zero invention required, zero blueprint copying required. That is not too shabby. And that number is sure going up as more and more BS pilots swap out for command ship, assuming they have the skills. Is this intended to be a stealth T2 BPO whine? Because I make that much per slot with T1 stuff, so your argument is pretty weak. Your figure basically boils down to 941k isk/hour on that slot, which is matchable with a lot of other things if you know what you're doing.
I provided numbers. You just say "there are lots of things". Provide numbers for a single item.
Naturally, you will say " I am not giving away my industry secrets.
So provide numbers for a T1 item that does 2/3 of that, and one you are not running.
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Kale Eledar
Mining and Industrial Services
The Irukandji
23
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Posted - 2012.04.15 18:32:00 -
[45] - Quote
There is one more very important component of Tech II ships that has been mentioned indirectly, but that must be taken into consideration.
Morphite.
With the nerf to Drone loot, the primary (~80%) source of this valuable material has disappeared, making nullsec mining (both good true-sec and spawned gravimetric sites) the only real notable source. Expect the value of Morphite to skyrocket as stocks are depleted, until nullsec pilots both get their Morphite infrastructure/skiff/operations and pilots into mining ships. I'm no market ace, but this will probably cause the cost of Command Ships (the OP's original point) to go higher than they are now, and possibly match or exceed battleships in the near future until the Morphite sources are more established.
The Irukandji is recruiting PVP pilots! APPLY NAO. You won't regret it.
See our info at : -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=70811&find=unread |
Vince Snetterton
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
62
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 19:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
Kale Eledar wrote:There is one more very important component of Tech II ships that has been mentioned indirectly, but that must be taken into consideration.
Morphite.
With the nerf to Drone loot, the primary (~80%) source of this valuable material has disappeared, making nullsec mining (both good true-sec and spawned gravimetric sites) the only real notable source. Expect the value of Morphite to skyrocket as stocks are depleted, until nullsec pilots both get their Morphite infrastructure/skiff/operations and pilots into mining ships. I'm no market ace, but this will probably cause the cost of Command Ships (the OP's original point) to go higher than they are now, and possibly match or exceed battleships in the near future until the Morphite sources are more established.
A plausible suggestion, but I think you overestimate the impact that Morphite will have.
Using the example of the Sleipnir BPO, with ME 9, Morphite usage is 202 units.
At current Jita prices (17,303 ISK per unit), the cost of the Morphite is a tad under 3.5 million. The total mfg cost is now between 188 and 190M. That means the Morphite cost is currently approx 1.85% of the overall cost. And that is after the mineral has quadrupled in price in the past few weeks.
If it doubles again to 35,000 per unit, the overall impact is to add another 2% to the cost of the ship, tops.
Now, if the minerals required for the T1 Cyclone that is required for mfg go up just another 20%, that adds 5 or 6 million to the overall cost.
Like I said, the T2 BPO holders are ecstatic about the mineral insanity that its occurring. |
Kale Eledar
Mining and Industrial Services
The Irukandji
23
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Posted - 2012.04.15 19:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:Kale Eledar wrote:There is one more very important component of Tech II ships that has been mentioned indirectly, but that must be taken into consideration.
Morphite.
With the nerf to Drone loot, the primary (~80%) source of this valuable material has disappeared, making nullsec mining (both good true-sec and spawned gravimetric sites) the only real notable source. Expect the value of Morphite to skyrocket as stocks are depleted, until nullsec pilots both get their Morphite infrastructure/skiff/operations and pilots into mining ships. I'm no market ace, but this will probably cause the cost of Command Ships (the OP's original point) to go higher than they are now, and possibly match or exceed battleships in the near future until the Morphite sources are more established. A plausible suggestion, but I think you overestimate the impact that Morphite will have. .
Probably. I just wanted to bring attention to a potential addition in cost. I don't see it staying high value for super long, either. Like the other minerals, once the market adjusts to the changes, they should stablize eventually.
"Skyrocket" was probably a histrionic word choice.
The Irukandji is recruiting PVP pilots! APPLY NAO. You won't regret it.
See our info at : -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=70811&find=unread |
Vince Snetterton
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
64
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 20:50:00 -
[48] - Quote
Kale Eledar wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:[quote=Kale Eledar]There is one more very important component of Tech II ships that has been mentioned indirectly, but that must be taken into consideration
Morphite
With the nerf to Drone loot, the primary (~80%) source of this valuable material has disappeared, making nullsec mining (both good true-sec and spawned gravimetric sites) the only real notable source. Expect the value of Morphite to skyrocket as stocks are depleted, until nullsec pilots both get their Morphite infrastructure/skiff/operations and pilots into mining ships. I'm no market ace, but this will probably cause the cost of Command Ships (the OP's original point) to go higher than they are now, and possibly match or exceed battleships in the near future until the Morphite sources are more established.[/quote
A plausible suggestion, but I think you overestimate the impact that Morphite will have
. Probably. I just wanted to bring attention to a potential addition in cost. I don't see it staying high value for super long, either. Like the other minerals, once the market adjusts to the changes, they should stablize eventually "Skyrocket" was probably a histrionic word choice.
Actually, "skyrocket is far from histrionic
In the past 6 months
Isogen 62 to 96, up 48%
Megacyte 2778- 3347, up 20%
Mexallon 33- 53, up 60%
Morphite 3470 - 17053, up 391%
Nocxium 426 - 985, up 131%
Pye 4.32 - 7.07, up 63%
Trit 3.40 - 6.05, up 78%
Zydrine 7.24 - 1803, up 149%
I would say "skyrocket" is a very moderate term given those numbers. |
lanyaie
122
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 21:13:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ever had that feeling you just feel like posting without reading any of the posts in the thread. This is one of those moments
I dont post often, but when I do i'm probably trolling you |
Kale Eledar
Mining and Industrial Services
The Irukandji
24
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Posted - 2012.04.15 22:39:00 -
[50] - Quote
Yeah, I guess so. Nice data!
Morphite up 391...and I see it being at or above 25-30k before all is said and done.
The Irukandji is recruiting PVP pilots! APPLY NAO. You won't regret it.
See our info at : -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=70811&find=unread |
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