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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.23 05:25:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: Alowishus
I ran with this setup:
7x Dual Modal Heavy Beam
1x Rudimentary Concusion Bomb
1x Quad LiF Booster Rockets (MWD)
1x Named Cap Recharger (16.5%)
1x Sensor Booster
2x Large Automated Repairer
4x Named CPR
2x Heatsink II
It was a very successful setup, I rarely ever had to warp out. With the dual repairers I could take my time and do everything right. My targetting range with the booster was 117km, my cap was 3865/238 (would be 198 if sensor booster was replaced with another 16.5% cap recharger, target range was then 78km), my optimal with radios was 70km. With Anodes the optimal was 78km but I didn't have enough of them and I hate mixing guns with different optimal ranges.
Often when hunting in groups my BS was going toe to toe with the Tier 2 BS. Of course I'm sure if they had tried a million setups and optimized like I did then they would have better ships but my Arma was certainly better than the "average" Tier 2 BS.
Couple of probs with your setup:
1- Mega pulse lasers own dual heavy beams..better range, damage, and rof....switch it.
2-What's the point of a sensor booster when your optimal range is less then your normal targetting range?
3-? Only difference between a named cpr and a regular cpr is 1 cpu...unless you're using sanshas/dread etc. versions..
4-You won't have enough cap to run 2 large repairers and fire your guns indefinately. Use a hardener instead; will make your tanking much more effective.
5-A Rudimentary Concusion Bomb is a small smarbomb, correct? If it isn't ignore this point. If it is, then using one is stupid. Upgrade to a large one ASAP.
6-A 16.5% cap recharger? Buy a tech 2 one, homes....every bit helps and I'm sure you can afford a tech 2...if you're cheap, then buy a 17.25 or 18% one.
Other then those 6 points, your setup rocks  .
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.23 05:25:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Alowishus
I ran with this setup:
7x Dual Modal Heavy Beam
1x Rudimentary Concusion Bomb
1x Quad LiF Booster Rockets (MWD)
1x Named Cap Recharger (16.5%)
1x Sensor Booster
2x Large Automated Repairer
4x Named CPR
2x Heatsink II
It was a very successful setup, I rarely ever had to warp out. With the dual repairers I could take my time and do everything right. My targetting range with the booster was 117km, my cap was 3865/238 (would be 198 if sensor booster was replaced with another 16.5% cap recharger, target range was then 78km), my optimal with radios was 70km. With Anodes the optimal was 78km but I didn't have enough of them and I hate mixing guns with different optimal ranges.
Often when hunting in groups my BS was going toe to toe with the Tier 2 BS. Of course I'm sure if they had tried a million setups and optimized like I did then they would have better ships but my Arma was certainly better than the "average" Tier 2 BS.
Couple of probs with your setup:
1- Mega pulse lasers own dual heavy beams..better range, damage, and rof....switch it.
2-What's the point of a sensor booster when your optimal range is less then your normal targetting range?
3-? Only difference between a named cpr and a regular cpr is 1 cpu...unless you're using sanshas/dread etc. versions..
4-You won't have enough cap to run 2 large repairers and fire your guns indefinately. Use a hardener instead; will make your tanking much more effective.
5-A Rudimentary Concusion Bomb is a small smarbomb, correct? If it isn't ignore this point. If it is, then using one is stupid. Upgrade to a large one ASAP.
6-A 16.5% cap recharger? Buy a tech 2 one, homes....every bit helps and I'm sure you can afford a tech 2...if you're cheap, then buy a 17.25 or 18% one.
Other then those 6 points, your setup rocks .
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.23 16:59:00 -
[3]
Mega Pulse:
3x dmg mod
28km range
8km falloff
0.027 tracking
7.88 rof
50 cpu
2,500 grid
Dual Heavy Beam:
2x dmg mod
32km range
2km falloff
0.017 tracking
7.22 rof
45 cpu
1,750 grid
So better range and rof on the duals, but much better damage over time with the mega pulse with a significant boost to tracking(which, due to the recent patch is absolutely essential).
Can you fit 7 in a armageddon? Absoultely. 16,500 grid goes to 20,625 with engineering 5. And that 50 cpu per goes down to 40 with weapons upgrade 4. So 7 will take 280 cpu and 17,500 grid. Which leaves you more then enough for the all the other mods you need. Can't use 2 large armor repairers, of course, but using 2 is stupid. Either use a hardener or put in a cap relay.
Boils down to:
7 mega pulse
1 mwd
1 cap rechargers
1 Tracking computer
1 large rep
1 hardener
1 heat sink
5 cap relays
Tons of cap, decent tanking ability and much much MUCH better damage.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.23 16:59:00 -
[4]
Mega Pulse:
3x dmg mod
28km range
8km falloff
0.027 tracking
7.88 rof
50 cpu
2,500 grid
Dual Heavy Beam:
2x dmg mod
32km range
2km falloff
0.017 tracking
7.22 rof
45 cpu
1,750 grid
So better range and rof on the duals, but much better damage over time with the mega pulse with a significant boost to tracking(which, due to the recent patch is absolutely essential).
Can you fit 7 in a armageddon? Absoultely. 16,500 grid goes to 20,625 with engineering 5. And that 50 cpu per goes down to 40 with weapons upgrade 4. So 7 will take 280 cpu and 17,500 grid. Which leaves you more then enough for the all the other mods you need. Can't use 2 large armor repairers, of course, but using 2 is stupid. Either use a hardener or put in a cap relay.
Boils down to:
7 mega pulse
1 mwd
1 cap rechargers
1 Tracking computer
1 large rep
1 hardener
1 heat sink
5 cap relays
Tons of cap, decent tanking ability and much much MUCH better damage.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.23 21:55:00 -
[5]
Mine works better.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.23 21:55:00 -
[6]
Mine works better.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.24 00:44:00 -
[7]
Edited by: StinkFinger on 24/07/2004 00:45:38
1 armor rep + 1 hardener geared towards the type of damage the rat you're hunting does is more then enough to deal with spawns up to and including 1 mil bounties.
For example, against an angel commanders, I use a kinetic hardener + a large accomadation repairer....tanked that for a about 40 minutes, since I couldn't do enough damage to take him out (was using a mega beam/tachyon setup...didn't realize those guys had so high em/therm resistances).
Will 2 repairers work better?
Probably.
Are 2 repairers worth the damage nerf you'll take since you have to use those lame dual beams?
Nope.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.24 00:44:00 -
[8]
Edited by: StinkFinger on 24/07/2004 00:45:38
1 armor rep + 1 hardener geared towards the type of damage the rat you're hunting does is more then enough to deal with spawns up to and including 1 mil bounties.
For example, against an angel commanders, I use a kinetic hardener + a large accomadation repairer....tanked that for a about 40 minutes, since I couldn't do enough damage to take him out (was using a mega beam/tachyon setup...didn't realize those guys had so high em/therm resistances).
Will 2 repairers work better?
Probably.
Are 2 repairers worth the damage nerf you'll take since you have to use those lame dual beams?
Nope.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.25 01:53:00 -
[9]
Edited by: StinkFinger on 25/07/2004 01:55:54
Originally by: Alowishus
Edited by: Alowishus on 24/07/2004 07:11:41
Edited by: Alowishus on 24/07/2004 07:11:10
Originally by: StinkFinger
Are 2 repairers worth the damage nerf you'll take since you have to use those lame dual beams?
Nope.
Well on my setup I have no problems taking out 1 mil isk rats with radio crystals. What you should do is take the damage modifier and ROF of my named guns, factor in my two heatsink 2s, and my skills and then figure out if I am doing more DOT with my seven Dual Modal Beams than you are with a Tach/Mega Beam setup, your skills and your single heatsink. Then get back to me.
That was my old setup. It didn't work. I changed it to the setup that I mentioned a few posts earlier, which I'll repeat again:
7 mega pulse
1 mwd
1 cap recharger
1 Tracking computer
1 large rep
1 hardener geared towards the rats you're hunting
1 tech 2 heat sink
5 cap relays
..which will outdamage 7 dual heavies with 2 heatsinks any day of the week.
ATM, I'm thinking of switching a cpr for another heatsink...probably wait until I get my cap recharge skill to 5.
EDIT: You can also tank up to the 1mil rats without a problem.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.25 01:53:00 -
[10]
Edited by: StinkFinger on 25/07/2004 01:55:54
Originally by: Alowishus
Edited by: Alowishus on 24/07/2004 07:11:41
Edited by: Alowishus on 24/07/2004 07:11:10
Originally by: StinkFinger
Are 2 repairers worth the damage nerf you'll take since you have to use those lame dual beams?
Nope.
Well on my setup I have no problems taking out 1 mil isk rats with radio crystals. What you should do is take the damage modifier and ROF of my named guns, factor in my two heatsink 2s, and my skills and then figure out if I am doing more DOT with my seven Dual Modal Beams than you are with a Tach/Mega Beam setup, your skills and your single heatsink. Then get back to me.
That was my old setup. It didn't work. I changed it to the setup that I mentioned a few posts earlier, which I'll repeat again:
7 mega pulse
1 mwd
1 cap recharger
1 Tracking computer
1 large rep
1 hardener geared towards the rats you're hunting
1 tech 2 heat sink
5 cap relays
..which will outdamage 7 dual heavies with 2 heatsinks any day of the week.
ATM, I'm thinking of switching a cpr for another heatsink...probably wait until I get my cap recharge skill to 5.
EDIT: You can also tank up to the 1mil rats without a problem.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.29 17:23:00 -
[11]
Swap a cpr with a pdu.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.29 17:23:00 -
[12]
Swap a cpr with a pdu.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.31 15:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Alowishus
Originally by: StinkFinger
Swap a cpr with a pdu.
You keep coming up with setups that 1) won't work well or 2) don't fit. Do you even try these setups as you say or are you just pulling this stuff out of your ass? I think you are some n00b that has been playing for 3 months and you don't know what you are talking about. Do you even have an Armageddon?
N00bs should be asking questions, not giving answers.
Thanks.
Well I use an afterburner on that setup, not a mwd...threw off the calculations a bit there.
Point is, your setup is lame.
Mine rocks.
Deal with it.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.31 15:47:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Alowishus
Originally by: StinkFinger
Swap a cpr with a pdu.
You keep coming up with setups that 1) won't work well or 2) don't fit. Do you even try these setups as you say or are you just pulling this stuff out of your ass? I think you are some n00b that has been playing for 3 months and you don't know what you are talking about. Do you even have an Armageddon?
N00bs should be asking questions, not giving answers.
Thanks.
Well I use an afterburner on that setup, not a mwd...threw off the calculations a bit there.
Point is, your setup is lame.
Mine rocks.
Deal with it.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.08.02 17:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Simen Looswe
Edited by: Simen Looswe on 02/08/2004 13:37:23
Quote:
what frigging skills do you have that enable you to kill npcs at 100km range, whithout ANY CAP RECHARGIN MODULE WHATSOEVER?
firstly, i dont use such a setup myself.
That setup of yours is total sh|t. Don't need to say anymore.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.08.02 17:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Simen Looswe
Edited by: Simen Looswe on 02/08/2004 13:37:23
Quote:
what frigging skills do you have that enable you to kill npcs at 100km range, whithout ANY CAP RECHARGIN MODULE WHATSOEVER?
firstly, i dont use such a setup myself.
That setup of yours is total sh|t. Don't need to say anymore.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.08.02 17:51:00 -
[17]
For the apoc use the following:
7 megapulse lasers with radio crystals
1 smartbomb-preferably a sansha/gurista/blood one
1 mwd
1 tracking comp tech 2 or named
2 cap rechargers tech 2 or named
1 large armor rep-named
2 hardeners
1 heatsink tech 2
3 cap relays
6 Heavy drones
With radio crystals, opt. range should be around 60km. Got enough tanking there to handle a 2 bs spawn. The smartbomb should take care of most elite frigs...all of them if its a uber loot smartbomb. Otherwise use drones.
For people wondering why everyone's using megapulse lasers, it's because its DOT is greater then EVERY other gun in the game. In other words, it's the hardest hitting weapon available. Using a different gun on an apoc is simply stupid(unless you're going for a 120km+ setup...then use tachys).
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.08.02 17:51:00 -
[18]
For the apoc use the following:
7 megapulse lasers with radio crystals
1 smartbomb-preferably a sansha/gurista/blood one
1 mwd
1 tracking comp tech 2 or named
2 cap rechargers tech 2 or named
1 large armor rep-named
2 hardeners
1 heatsink tech 2
3 cap relays
6 Heavy drones
With radio crystals, opt. range should be around 60km. Got enough tanking there to handle a 2 bs spawn. The smartbomb should take care of most elite frigs...all of them if its a uber loot smartbomb. Otherwise use drones.
For people wondering why everyone's using megapulse lasers, it's because its DOT is greater then EVERY other gun in the game. In other words, it's the hardest hitting weapon available. Using a different gun on an apoc is simply stupid(unless you're going for a 120km+ setup...then use tachys).
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.08.02 19:42:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Alowishus
Originally by: StinkFinger
Originally by: Simen Looswe
Edited by: Simen Looswe on 02/08/2004 13:37:23
Quote:
what frigging skills do you have that enable you to kill npcs at 100km range, whithout ANY CAP RECHARGIN MODULE WHATSOEVER?
firstly, i dont use such a setup myself.
That setup of yours is total sh|t. Don't need to say anymore.
Nobody listen to this guy, he's either been playing for three months and in a n00b corp still or this is an alt he hides behind to talk ****. All the setups I've seen from him could be described as vanilla at best but more likely crap, because they have no deffense. I doubt he has the experience required to say what is good or bad.
This from a guy who uses dual heavy pulse lasers!
LOL
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.08.02 19:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Alowishus
Originally by: StinkFinger
Originally by: Simen Looswe
Edited by: Simen Looswe on 02/08/2004 13:37:23
Quote:
what frigging skills do you have that enable you to kill npcs at 100km range, whithout ANY CAP RECHARGIN MODULE WHATSOEVER?
firstly, i dont use such a setup myself.
That setup of yours is total sh|t. Don't need to say anymore.
Nobody listen to this guy, he's either been playing for three months and in a n00b corp still or this is an alt he hides behind to talk ****. All the setups I've seen from him could be described as vanilla at best but more likely crap, because they have no deffense. I doubt he has the experience required to say what is good or bad.
This from a guy who uses dual heavy pulse lasers!
LOL
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.08.03 02:22:00 -
[21]
Edited by: StinkFinger on 03/08/2004 04:21:02
Originally by: Alowishus
Originally by: StinkFinger
This from a guy who uses dual heavy pulse lasers!
LOL
Wrong. I use dual heavy beam lasers. I have full set of modulated dual heavy beam lasers. They have the same range and DOT as Mega Beam Lasers but only use 1750PG. Of course since you have still proven not to understand the concept of DOT I wouldn't expect you to understand. Now who's stupid?
Well you forget that megapulse lasers have the highest DOT. Time to replace the batteries in your calculator, jack.
BTW, I never said you were stupid (at least I don't think I did), but you do have noob-like tendancies.
PS: Sell those modulated heavy pulses and buy modal or anode mega pulse lasers.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.08.03 02:22:00 -
[22]
Edited by: StinkFinger on 03/08/2004 04:21:02
Originally by: Alowishus
Originally by: StinkFinger
This from a guy who uses dual heavy pulse lasers!
LOL
Wrong. I use dual heavy beam lasers. I have full set of modulated dual heavy beam lasers. They have the same range and DOT as Mega Beam Lasers but only use 1750PG. Of course since you have still proven not to understand the concept of DOT I wouldn't expect you to understand. Now who's stupid?
Well you forget that megapulse lasers have the highest DOT. Time to replace the batteries in your calculator, jack.
BTW, I never said you were stupid (at least I don't think I did), but you do have noob-like tendancies.
PS: Sell those modulated heavy pulses and buy modal or anode mega pulse lasers.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.08.03 04:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Alowishus
I'm not going to use mega pulse because A) I'd only gain about 12% DOT, B) I'll lose 25% of my range, C) I'll lose 50% of my deffenses. I don't think you fight very many BS NPC spawns otherwise you would understand why deffense and range is important. Just incase you were wondering, a BS NPC is alot harder than a Cruiser NPC.
Since you are in a n00b corp and n00b corps are KOS in most 0.0 space, where are you getting this NPC experience you claim to have?
#1-I'm an alt. Thought you'd figure that out by now.
#2-I'm currently fighting sansha spawns in 0.0 sec space...been there for..oh must be about 2 months.
#3-At 60km, the opt range on my setup, all you have to tank are their missles. Not hard to do with 1 rep and 1 hardener.
#4-I have been talking about BS spawns. I thought that was obvious.
#5-A 12% improvement in DOT is rather significant. Losing 25% range is a nonfactor. And you're overtanked with two repairers. It's simply more then you need.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.08.03 04:18:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Alowishus
I'm not going to use mega pulse because A) I'd only gain about 12% DOT, B) I'll lose 25% of my range, C) I'll lose 50% of my deffenses. I don't think you fight very many BS NPC spawns otherwise you would understand why deffense and range is important. Just incase you were wondering, a BS NPC is alot harder than a Cruiser NPC.
Since you are in a n00b corp and n00b corps are KOS in most 0.0 space, where are you getting this NPC experience you claim to have?
#1-I'm an alt. Thought you'd figure that out by now.
#2-I'm currently fighting sansha spawns in 0.0 sec space...been there for..oh must be about 2 months.
#3-At 60km, the opt range on my setup, all you have to tank are their missles. Not hard to do with 1 rep and 1 hardener.
#4-I have been talking about BS spawns. I thought that was obvious.
#5-A 12% improvement in DOT is rather significant. Losing 25% range is a nonfactor. And you're overtanked with two repairers. It's simply more then you need.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.08.03 15:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Alowishus
Edited by: Alowishus on 03/08/2004 04:28:45
I've been fighting Sansha's for the same ammount of time, have not had any problems with damage. You're not going to convince me that my setup doesn't work.
My setup has:
1) good damage
2) good range
3) excellent speed
4) excellent cap recharge
5) excellent deffense
If I put on mega pulse I will have:
1) excellent damage
2) ok range
3) no speed
4) good cap recharge
5) poor deffense
Wow. Good job, you are t3h ub3r ship fitter. 
1)-I agree
2)-Range is good enough with the megas
3)-Not sure what you mean here...if you're referring to the rof, the difference is 0.68 seconds...7.88 on the megas, 7.20 on the dual heavy beams...not a huge difference.
4)-Cap use is 40 on the megas, 35 on the dual beams...again, not significant.
5)-1 named rep + 1-2 hardeners is more then enough to solo multi bs spawns if you have a mwd keeping you at proper range...yes it takes more skill and requires more attention...worth it, imo.
Bottom line: You prefer the saftey of an extra defense at the expense of damage while I prefer more damage so that I can take out more spawns over the same period of time.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.08.03 15:12:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Alowishus
Edited by: Alowishus on 03/08/2004 04:28:45
I've been fighting Sansha's for the same ammount of time, have not had any problems with damage. You're not going to convince me that my setup doesn't work.
My setup has:
1) good damage
2) good range
3) excellent speed
4) excellent cap recharge
5) excellent deffense
If I put on mega pulse I will have:
1) excellent damage
2) ok range
3) no speed
4) good cap recharge
5) poor deffense
Wow. Good job, you are t3h ub3r ship fitter.
1)-I agree
2)-Range is good enough with the megas
3)-Not sure what you mean here...if you're referring to the rof, the difference is 0.68 seconds...7.88 on the megas, 7.20 on the dual heavy beams...not a huge difference.
4)-Cap use is 40 on the megas, 35 on the dual beams...again, not significant.
5)-1 named rep + 1-2 hardeners is more then enough to solo multi bs spawns if you have a mwd keeping you at proper range...yes it takes more skill and requires more attention...worth it, imo.
Bottom line: You prefer the saftey of an extra defense at the expense of damage while I prefer more damage so that I can take out more spawns over the same period of time.
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