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Zauberkraft
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Posted - 2008.12.31 10:11:00 -
[1]
This is just an honest question before I get flamed for being a whinner (obviously this involves a lost ship)...
If you orbit someone at very very close range at a high speed in a small ship so that they can't turn and are effectively trapped in space is that an exploit and/or harresment?
When this happened to me I thought it was just a neat trick some pirates were playing on me, but on mentioning it to fellow eve players they suggested it was an exploit or at least unintended.
Sorry if this has been done to death, but I don't know what it's called and searching for "bumping" is a waste of time ;-)
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Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2008.12.31 10:13:00 -
[2]
It is called bumping, yes. It is not an exploit. Once upon a time, it was the only way to "tackle" a supercap. ----------------
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PsychoBones
Project Nemesis
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Posted - 2008.12.31 10:15:00 -
[3]
I believe if you're doing it just to be a jackass (example: bumping a random freighter that is trying to warp) it's punishable. However, it's legitimate as a combat tactic.
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HankMurphy
Minmatar Pelennor Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.12.31 10:16:00 -
[4]
i think the bumping mechanic can best be described as "working as unintended" ---------- Seasons Greetings and have a Happy Alvis Time |
Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.31 10:17:00 -
[5]
What PsychoBones said.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.12.31 10:28:00 -
[6]
Well i always found it to be an "exploit", in a sense that if you need it to do something, you should change your profession.
If we had ACTUAL collision models on ships and a tool to avoid this "bump", like "anti-tractor beam" or some such, then it would be a tactic.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Commander Aeris
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.31 10:30:00 -
[7]
or both ships take equal damage after a "bump" bye bye bumping frig
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Zauberkraft
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Posted - 2008.12.31 10:31:00 -
[8]
Originally by: PsychoBones I believe if you're doing it just to be a jackass (example: bumping a random freighter that is trying to warp) it's punishable.
Well funnily enough that is exactly what happened to me, only it was in a combat situation, and they prevented me warping out till downtime and then EVE decided my ship was destroyed in downtime (well the logs say 11:00 but my ship was still fine at 11:00 as the message "cluster shutdown imminent" was shown on my machine).
So I guess I feel more hard done by that my ship was destroyed when I wasn't even there to do anything about it, but hemming in a transport by bumping seems pretty lame.
Anyways, that's another matter CCP won't refund the ship because of the downtime "issue".
But I guess this has taught me something - I better learn how to bump people and spread the joy.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.12.31 10:32:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Commander Aeris or both ships take equal damage after a "bump" bye bye bumping frig
Aye. Sadly it would be very exploitable if there was no "bump module".
Which i've advocated for a LOOONG time.
Activate module. You take damage but can bump ships(otherwise your ship would take "evasive actions". Bigger the bump, bigger the damage.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Commander Aeris
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.31 10:33:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Commander Aeris on 31/12/2008 10:34:01
Originally by: Zauberkraft
Well funnily enough that is exactly what happened to me, only it was in a combat situation, and they prevented me warping out till downtime and then EVE decided my ship was destroyed in downtime (well the logs say 11:00 but my ship was still fine at 11:00 as the message "cluster shutdown imminent" was shown on my machine).
So I guess I feel more hard done by that my ship was destroyed when I wasn't even there to do anything about it, but hemming in a transport by bumping seems pretty lame.
Anyways, that's another matter CCP won't refund the ship because of the downtime "issue".
But I guess this has taught me something - I better learn how to bump people and spread the joy.
you do know that you can just bump them back just as hard right?...just double-click and change course will knock them the **** out
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Darklorden
Blades Of EVE DENIED ACCESS
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Posted - 2008.12.31 10:34:00 -
[11]
If in combat then its a viable tactic, but if you're just bumping or being bumped as a mean to harass then it can be reported and a GM will warn you. - - - - - -= Hunger is the perfect motivator for those who are lazy by nature =-
-= It is nice to be important, but it is more important to be nice =- |
Yon89
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.12.31 10:35:00 -
[12]
It is a feature until CCP calls it an exploit k.
Yon ============= SIG SIG SIG |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.12.31 10:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Darklorden If in combat then its a viable tactic, but if you're just bumping or being bumped as a mean to harass then it can be reported and a GM will warn you.
Which is why it doesn't work.
Why would the "cold hard world of EVE" care if someone is harassing you IF you're not fighting?
It shouldn't.
Hensh, bumpmodule, or a "collision avoiding system ejector", which if turned on outside combat, would cause in the same reprocautions then shooting someone.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Zauberkraft
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Posted - 2008.12.31 10:40:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Commander Aeris Edited by: Commander Aeris on 31/12/2008 10:34:01 you do know that you can just bump them back just as hard right?...just double-click and change course will knock them the **** out
Nope had no idea, I better practice with a mate.
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Concorduck
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.31 10:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Darklorden If in combat then its a viable tactic, but if you're just bumping or being bumped as a mean to harass then it can be reported and a GM will warn you.
Yeah, like that's gonna happen -----------------------------------------
Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
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Darklorden
Blades Of EVE DENIED ACCESS
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Posted - 2008.12.31 10:57:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Which is why it doesn't work.
Why would the "cold hard world of EVE" care if someone is harassing you IF you're not fighting?
It shouldn't.
Hensh, bumpmodule, or a "collision avoiding system ejector", which if turned on outside combat, would cause in the same reprocautions then shooting someone.
If we had a true "cold hard world of EVE" there wouldn't be any Concord or high or low sec space, just lawless space everywhere. Since this game needs a steady income to stay alive there has to be some rules, otherwise only the hardcore players would still remain after the gankatons had passed by.
A friend of mine got warned after being petitioned for a few "harmless" bumps. - - - - - -= Hunger is the perfect motivator for those who are lazy by nature =-
-= It is nice to be important, but it is more important to be nice =- |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.12.31 11:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Darklorden If we had a true "cold hard world of EVE" there wouldn't be any Concord or high or low sec space, just lawless space everywhere. Since this game needs a steady income to stay alive there has to be some rules, otherwise only the hardcore players would still remain after the gankatons had passed by.
A friend of mine got warned after being petitioned for a few "harmless" bumps.
Not the point really.
shooting ships in lowsec/0.0 has rules. Bumping ships should have same rules.
If anyone can give a good reason why a bumping module wouldn't improve the game tactics, and game lore in itself, i'm open to hear them
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Kainoss
Gallente Phantom Squad
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Posted - 2008.12.31 11:10:00 -
[18]
Originally by: PsychoBones I believe if you're doing it just to be a jackass (example: bumping a random freighter that is trying to warp) it's punishable. However, it's legitimate as a combat tactic.
No it is never an exploit as I found out from a petition. Perfectly legal tactic under any situation. ------------
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T'rek
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Posted - 2008.12.31 11:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Darklorden If we had a true "cold hard world of EVE" there wouldn't be any Concord or high or low sec space, just lawless space everywhere. Since this game needs a steady income to stay alive there has to be some rules, otherwise only the hardcore players would still remain after the gankatons had passed by.
A friend of mine got warned after being petitioned for a few "harmless" bumps.
Not the point really.
shooting ships in lowsec/0.0 has rules. Bumping ships should have same rules.
If anyone can give a good reason why a bumping module wouldn't improve the game tactics, and game lore in itself, i'm open to hear them
Because you're a whining carebear who needs to adapt or die.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.12.31 11:29:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 31/12/2008 11:29:30
Originally by: T'rek
Originally by: Sheriff Jones If anyone can give a good reason why a bumping module wouldn't improve the game tactics, and game lore in itself, i'm open to hear them
Because you're a whining carebear who needs to adapt or die.
Umm, well, you see, i know how to adapt and not to die, but could you when a system that you've used for ages was removed and replaced by a better and more logical system?
It's all fine and dandy to say "adapt or die" if you're willing to do so yourself, but most people who say it, won't be able to budge one inch of their own beaten path.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
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Concorduck
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.31 11:29:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Darklorden If we had a true "cold hard world of EVE" there wouldn't be any Concord or high or low sec space, just lawless space everywhere. Since this game needs a steady income to stay alive there has to be some rules, otherwise only the hardcore players would still remain after the gankatons had passed by.
A friend of mine got warned after being petitioned for a few "harmless" bumps.
Not the point really.
shooting ships in lowsec/0.0 has rules. Bumping ships should have same rules.
If anyone can give a good reason why a bumping module wouldn't improve the game tactics, and game lore in itself, i'm open to hear them
BECAUSE IT'S A MODULE THAT INTERACTS WITH SHIP VELOCITY, MASS AND AGILITY!
ALL MODULES THAT DID THAT WERE NERFBATTED TO MOLECULAR COMPOUNDS -----------------------------------------
Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.12.31 11:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Concorduck BECAUSE IT'S A MODULE THAT INTERACTS WITH SHIP VELOCITY, MASS AND AGILITY!
ALL MODULES THAT DID THAT WERE NERFBATTED TO MOLECULAR COMPOUNDS
But...it doesn't. It interacts with the collision avoiding system i place(lore wise), rendering it offline
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
T'rek
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Posted - 2008.12.31 11:32:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 31/12/2008 11:29:30
Originally by: T'rek
Originally by: Sheriff Jones If anyone can give a good reason why a bumping module wouldn't improve the game tactics, and game lore in itself, i'm open to hear them
Because you're a whining carebear who needs to adapt or die.
Umm, well, you see, i know how to adapt and not to die, but could you when a system that you've used for ages was removed and replaced by a better and more logical system?
It's all fine and dandy to say "adapt or die" if you're willing to do so yourself, but most people who say it, won't be able to budge one inch of their own beaten path.
Give me an "anti-bumping" module and I could care less, but for all the carriers/battleships/anything that has ever been bumped off station, I think they are going to tell you to live with it. Imho, the anti-bumping modules are 1600mm plates.
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Concorduck
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.31 11:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Concorduck BECAUSE IT'S A MODULE THAT INTERACTS WITH SHIP VELOCITY, MASS AND AGILITY!
ALL MODULES THAT DID THAT WERE NERFBATTED TO MOLECULAR COMPOUNDS
But...it doesn't. It interacts with the collision avoiding system i place(lore wise), rendering it offline
OH, then it's not doable at all. You know, the bubble system the client and server use to create the space simulation and stuff? well, it works on collision bubbles.
Rendering them offline...duh... -----------------------------------------
Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.12.31 11:35:00 -
[25]
Originally by: T'rek Give me an "anti-bumping" module and I could care less, but for all the carriers/battleships/anything that has ever been bumped off station, I think they are going to tell you to live with it. Imho, the anti-bumping modules are 1600mm plates.
Again, missing the point.
Simply because things are like "this", doesn't mean they wouldn't be better like "that".
If bumping became dependent on your fitting, it would give A: more tactics. B: more reality(even if EVE isn't the pinnacle of it). C: make risk vs reward more the norm. D: remove the need for "petition harassment" on bumping.
And such.
Only reason why people would be against bumping, is, as you said, if they can't adapt to it
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Darwin Duck
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.12.31 11:36:00 -
[26]
Bumping should be allowed, but it should also be fixed. A frigate should not be able to bump battleships. The BS should not even notice that the frig bumped into it.
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T'rek
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Posted - 2008.12.31 11:39:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Darwin Duck Bumping should be allowed, but it should also be fixed. A frigate should not be able to bump battleships. The BS should not even notice that the frig bumped into it.
They don't...
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Concorduck
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.31 11:41:00 -
[28]
Originally by: T'rek
Originally by: Darwin Duck Bumping should be allowed, but it should also be fixed. A frigate should not be able to bump battleships. The BS should not even notice that the frig bumped into it.
They don't...
...Until it's too late -----------------------------------------
Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.12.31 11:41:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 31/12/2008 11:41:41 But T'rek to be more kind and un-charasteristic to this forum(), you said that an anti-bump module would be fine?
How about a "temporal reflect field", that would increase the size of your "collision" field by, say, 200% or something?
That could then be countered by fitting another ship with the same
Win win no?
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Heikki
Gallente Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.12.31 11:43:00 -
[30]
As most above, I seem to recall certain classes of bumping classed as exploits through petitions. Namely, trying to harass a non-war target in Empire, and request ransom to let the freighter move on.
Originally by: Zauberkraft combat situation .. my ship was destroyed in downtime .. still fine at 11:00 .. shutdown imminent
This is somewhat known and legal 'combat tactic'. The difference here is, that in theory you, and your friends, can shoot the offender to make it stop.
Otherwise, the loss of your ship sounds interesting, although probably nothing out of ordinary there.
To clarify:
1) Did you stay online till server disconnected you (instead of closing the client at some point)? 2) How much more time the attackers needed to kill the ship? That is, how much armor/structure you had left, and what kind of hostiles were close by? 3) Was there interdictor bubble around you and attackers at the down time?
As FYI: the servers do not go down when players get disconnected, they stay up and connectable for random short (say 10 secs to few mins) period.
Thus it is very much possible that you were barely alive when everyone was disconnected. The attackers could then have just quickly reconnected, and kept shooting at you for a few rounds.
-Lasse who thinks servers should not accept connections after downtime disconnect..
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