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CCP: Mining needs a complete revamp. An absolute, total makeover.

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Jon Taggart State War Academy Caldari State 26	Posted - 2012.04.15 02:41:00 - [1] - Quote Recent and upcoming changes have shed light on an issue few have ever really cared about, but now it's time to have a serious discussion about it. The bots, the drones, Pax Amarria, and the removal of Meta 0 loot from missions have turned Mining into one of the most integral aspects of this game's economy. People can skirt around the issue all they want by proposing buffs to the Hulk's tankability or making mining more profitable, but the end result stays the same. Mining is bar-none the single most boring activity in this game. It is also the only profession in this game that encourages you to not actively play the game to do it. When CCP has to ask its players what other games they play while mining to pass the time, something needs to be adjusted. You want cheaper prices? You want more targets to pop and gank? Make mining fun and you can have all of this and more. Make it dynamic. Make it involving. Make it enjoyable. Make it optional. Give players a choice. Consider a Planetary Interaction method of mining. Star Wars Galaxies managed just fine by allowing players to choose active harvesting vs. relying on less-efficient extractors, so why can't EVE? The system is already in place. Our reliance on mining will only increase from this point forward. And it needs to change in a big way. Please CCP, this relic needs a makeover.
masternerdguy Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate 173	Posted - 2012.04.15 02:42:00 - [2] - Quote Working as intended. Things are only impossible until they are not.
urbino S0utherN Comfort Cascade Imminent 6	Posted - 2012.04.15 02:54:00 - [3] - Quote its a different playstyle and being boring is the only difficulty it has besides figuring out how to move millions of m3's
Ai Shun 642	Posted - 2012.04.15 02:56:00 - [4] - Quote masternerdguy wrote: Working as intended. Not empty quoting.
Jon Taggart State War Academy Caldari State 26	Posted - 2012.04.15 03:06:00 - [5] - Quote masternerdguy wrote: Working as intended. This philosophy was adequate when we could rely on outside sources for minerals via bots and drone alloys, but it is no longer sufficient. As of 2009 - fairly old data, sorry about that - 40% of the minerals of this game came from mission loot. Gone. In a 2012 Inferno interview, CCP Soundwave said that 40% of the minerals came from Drone alloys. Gone.
Ismol Mond Hedion University Amarr Empire 8	Posted - 2012.04.15 03:07:00 - [6] - Quote Completely disagree with OP here. Mining is a very popular baby step into the world of eVe for many newcomers. It is a very simple way to access EvE initially and with the mineral prices rising exponentially it is also quite lucrative atm. Most newbies I listen to seem to enjoy it, at least for a while before moving on to other activities. Not sure what the complaints are about this proffesion. I do smell an agenda afoot though. If you don't like to mine then dont. It is basically an eve tradeskill ala most mmorpgs and is repetitive and fairly dull in nature. This keeps the add folks out of the proffession though, but imo that is a good thing.
Jon Taggart State War Academy Caldari State 26	Posted - 2012.04.15 03:12:00 - [7] - Quote Ismol Mond wrote: Completely disagree with OP here. Mining is a very popular baby step into the world of eVe for many newcomers. This is why I said to make it optional. Twice to be exact. Ismol Mond wrote: It is a very simple way to access EvE initially and with the mineral prices rising exponentially it is also quite lucrative atm. As I suggested, profit alone will prove insufficient for players to continue mining on the long term. Ismol Mond wrote: I do smell an agenda afoot though. If you don't like to mine then dont. I do not mine, nor do I have any interest in mining. My agenda is merely to recommend a much-needed change to a profession we're soon going to rely a great deal on. Ismol Mond wrote: It is basically an eve tradeskill ala most mmorpgs and is repetitive and fairly dull in nature. I agree/disagree. Most MMOs do not have the vibrant, complicated economy that EVE enjoys. One that relies on these materials to function. And no, bad MMOs - or ones with lackluster design philosophies - make tradeskills dull and repetitive in nature.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 416	Posted - 2012.04.15 03:13:00 - [8] - Quote Jon Taggart wrote: Our reliance on mining will only increase from this point forward. And it needs to change in a big way. I would definitely like to change our reliance on mining, before having observed the future. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY
Ai Shun 642	Posted - 2012.04.15 03:14:00 - [9] - Quote Jon Taggart wrote: This is why I said to make it optional. Twice to be exact. What about mining is compulsory at the moment? Jon Taggart wrote: As I suggested, profit alone will prove insufficient for players to continue mining on the long term. Why?
malcovas Henderson Smoking Minerals Syndicate Cannabis Legionis 19	Posted - 2012.04.15 03:17:00 - [10] - Quote Jon Taggart wrote: Recent and upcoming changes have shed light on an issue few have ever really cared about, but now it's time to have a serious discussion about it. The bots, the drones, Pax Amarria, and the removal of Meta 0 loot from missions have turned Mining into one of the most integral aspects of this game's economy. People can skirt around the issue all they want by proposing buffs to the Hulk's tankability or making mining more profitable, but the end result stays the same. Mining is bar-none the single most boring activity in this game. It is also the only profession in this game that encourages you to not actively play the game to do it. Profit alone will eventually prove insufficient to persuade players to continue mining for the long term. When CCP has to ask its players what other games they play while mining to pass the time, something needs to be adjusted. You want cheaper prices? You want more targets to pop and gank? Make mining fun and you can have all of this and more. Make it dynamic. Make it involving. Make it enjoyable. Make it optional. Give players a choice. Consider a Planetary Interaction method of mining. Star Wars Galaxies managed just fine by allowing players to choose active harvesting vs. relying on less-efficient extractors, so why can't EVE? The system is already in place. Consider something at least. Our reliance on mining will only increase from this point forward. And it needs to change in a big way. Please CCP, this relic needs a makeover. All i'm reading here is, you find mining boring, but want to jump onto the bandwagon, now it's looking profitable? Also just because you find it boring, does not mean other do too. The way I see it, is if changes are made to suit your benefit, maybe the miners that are mining now, might find the new playstyle boring. o7
Jon Taggart State War Academy Caldari State 26	Posted - 2012.04.15 03:23:00 - [11] - Quote Ai Shun wrote: What about mining is compulsory at the moment? Mining may be compulsory now, but when the full Inferno changes come into effect, it'll become a necessity. The mineral market had a lot to fall back on, but over the years those crutches have been getting removed. Ai Shun wrote: Jon Taggart wrote: As I suggested, profit alone will prove insufficient for players to continue mining on the long term. Why? The scores of players now picking up mining because of its newfound profit won't stick around for very long. If they found mining interesting, they would most likely be doing it from the get-go. I see your point though. It's tough to prove that at this particular time.
Jon Taggart State War Academy Caldari State 26	Posted - 2012.04.15 03:31:00 - [12] - Quote malcovas Henderson wrote: All i'm reading here is, you find mining boring, but want to jump onto the bandwagon, now it's looking profitable? I've been proposing mining revamps for years. This is nothing new. No bandwagon here. I felt like I've shouting at the wind mostly though . Nobody really cared and I could understand why in a way. It wasn't all that important. It was merely a stepping stone to bigger things. Something reserved for the new players or those looking to relax. malcovas Henderson wrote: Also just because you find it boring, does not mean other do too. A fair comment. I'm sure quite a few people enjoy mining, but I'm also very sure quite a few don't. malcovas Henderson wrote: The way I see it, is if changes are made to suit your benefit, Please understand that I have no interest in mining. I have no hidden agenda. I'm not looking for changes that will benefit my playstyle or help make me zillions of Iskies. I'm not interested in that. I'm just trying to shed light on an issue that has plagued this game for quite some time. malcovas Henderson wrote: maybe the miners that are mining now, might find the new playstyle boring. This is why I firmly believe that if mining were to receive any such changes that they be made completely optional. I'm not interested in forcing anyone to do anything. I'm not interesting in destroying something that some players enjoy. If they're content with the current mechanics, I find no fault with this in the least. However, giving players an alternative to the drudgery of the profession would be a boon.
malcovas Henderson Smoking Minerals Syndicate Cannabis Legionis 19	Posted - 2012.04.15 03:42:00 - [13] - Quote Jon Taggart wrote: This is why I firmly believe that if mining were to receive any such changes that they be made completely optional. I'm not interested in forcing anyone to do anything. I'm not interesting in destroying something that some players enjoy. If they're content with the current mechanics, I find no fault with this in the least. However, giving players an alternative to the drudgery of the profession would be a boon. They already have alternatives from mining. PvP, PI, Missions, Incursions, Market play, Exploration, Social, Ratting, and much more. True it could be they find these alternatives boring, but they are alternatives. o7
Jon Taggart State War Academy Caldari State 26	Posted - 2012.04.15 03:45:00 - [14] - Quote malcovas Henderson wrote: Jon Taggart wrote: This is why I firmly believe that if mining were to receive any such changes that they be made completely optional. I'm not interested in forcing anyone to do anything. I'm not interesting in destroying something that some players enjoy. If they're content with the current mechanics, I find no fault with this in the least. However, giving players an alternative to the drudgery of the profession would be a boon. They already have alternatives from mining. PvP, PI, Missions, Incursions, Market play, Exploration, Social, Ratting, and much more. True it could be they find these alternatives boring, but they are alternatives. o7 I meant alternatives to sitting in a hulk and staring at rocks in order to acquire minerals. Something more active. Sorry, should have been a little clearer.
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief 579	Posted - 2012.04.15 03:57:00 - [15] - Quote At fanfest data on the player opinion of different eve activities was given, as reported to CCP in one of their surveys. There were 5 levels: Likes alot, likes a little, neutral, dislikes a little, disliked alot. Mining had 2 interesting ratings. First of all activities, it had the most of the 2 dislikes. Even so, that consisted of only 25% of the respondents. Over 50% responded with like a little or better. If over half the player base likes mining, why does it need to be changed? If YOU do not like mining and want minerals, just put up buy orders and let others do it. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 416	Posted - 2012.04.15 04:01:00 - [16] - Quote Jon Taggart wrote: The scores of players now picking up mining because of its newfound profit won't stick around for very long. If they found mining interesting, they would most likely be doing it from the get-go. Heh. The emerging equilibrium, will be interesting. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 416	Posted - 2012.04.15 04:03:00 - [17] - Quote Jon Taggart wrote: I meant alternatives to sitting in a hulk and staring at rocks in order to acquire minerals. Something more active. Sorry, should have been a little clearer. Ah, active as in risk management via alertness? Some catalysts can help you there. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY
malcovas Henderson Smoking Minerals Syndicate Cannabis Legionis 19	Posted - 2012.04.15 04:04:00 - [18] - Quote Jon Taggart wrote: I meant alternatives to sitting in a hulk and staring at rocks in order to acquire minerals. Something more active. Sorry, should have been a little clearer. no need to be sorry. When I mine, I entertain myself. Try different things. Stupid things, serious thing, talk, and other things. Giving people that purely do look at rocks, would be a waste of time. Having said that. I would love to see bigger fleets of belt rats, and more often. o7
Mathias Hex Hillcrest Armaments 38	Posted - 2012.04.15 04:06:00 - [19] - Quote Yay lets start another pointless thread I recall one night in a nightclub called the matrix, there I was... Mother of god there I am! Holy f**k.
Jon Taggart State War Academy Caldari State 26	Posted - 2012.04.15 04:17:00 - [20] - Quote Vincent Athena wrote: At fanfest data on the player opinion of different eve activities was given, as reported to CCP in one of their surveys. There were 5 levels: Likes alot, likes a little, neutral, dislikes a little, disliked alot. Mining had 2 interesting ratings. First of all activities, it had the most of the 2 dislikes. Even so, that consisted of only 25% of the respondents. Over 50% responded with like a little or better. Most intriguing. Do you have a link to this information, as well as data containing how many players were polled? Was it a player-wide poll, or was it only solicited at Fan Fest? Also, 50% is vague. How many liked it a lot versus the amount of those who enjoy it a little? Alavaria Fera wrote: Heh. The emerging equilibrium, will be interesting. I concur, the next few months will be quite eventful Mathias Hex wrote: Yay lets start another pointless thread What better way to enhance a pointless thread than with a pointless post? Contributions such as these are always appreciated.
Mathias Hex Hillcrest Armaments 103	Posted - 2012.04.15 06:47:00 - [21] - Quote Jon Taggart wrote: Vincent Athena wrote: At fanfest data on the player opinion of different eve activities was given, as reported to CCP in one of their surveys. There were 5 levels: Likes alot, likes a little, neutral, dislikes a little, disliked alot. Mining had 2 interesting ratings. First of all activities, it had the most of the 2 dislikes. Even so, that consisted of only 25% of the respondents. Over 50% responded with like a little or better. Most intriguing. Do you have a link to this information, as well as data containing how many players were polled? Was it a player-wide poll, or was it only solicited at Fan Fest? Also, 50% is vague. How many liked it a lot versus the amount of those who enjoy it a little? Alavaria Fera wrote: Heh. The emerging equilibrium, will be interesting. I concur, the next few months will be quite eventful Mathias Hex wrote: Yay lets start another pointless thread What better way to enhance a pointless thread than with a pointless post? Contributions such as these are always appreciated. Hmm, guess you could merge it with one of the other 50 threads exactly the same as this that pop up on the hour. Have one mega mining is boring thread! That should enhance it since people tend to troll repeat threads...Well more than usual I recall one night in a nightclub called the matrix, there I was... Mother of god there I am! Holy f**k.
Herping yourDerp Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 483	Posted - 2012.04.15 06:52:00 - [22] - Quote the problem with mining is if you make it not afk its distracting enough to get you killed. or its so rewarding that in the long run it minerals will be too cheap. a super hulk miner cake that eats 1 roid in a 3 min cycle would be cool but then minerals would be near free can't have clicking games because some people DO like the afk mining and while clicking and crap you can easily be ganked. mining while logged out like moon mining is also a terrible idea what we need is a reasonable option for miners.
Dr Silkworth Two Geezers in Space 12	Posted - 2012.04.15 07:07:00 - [23] - Quote Lets put POSes in asteroid belts to bot the minerals unless the pos gets whacked. Exhumers should just be a step up to this mechanized process. Planets and moons should be mineable by exhumers also. Then we can have an expnasion, "Miner Wars" aka DIgDUg
Baneken Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate 99	Posted - 2012.04.15 07:28:00 - [24] - Quote Herping yourDerp wrote: a super hulk miner cake that eats 1 roid in a 3 min cycle would be cool but then minerals would be near free what we need is a reasonable option for miners. Well guess what you already do that sucking the roid in one go part... At least in high sec where roids are quite small and on occasion some belts have been stripped bare already. Also you can't really be AFK when your cargo is near full every 3 minutes and you have to target new roids. If you do it AFK you're doing it wrong not because AFK is bad but because it obviously means that your efficiency is sub par. For full AFK-minign spree, fit a regular roid drill in your orca and hug that roid, I can assure you that cargo space will take a long time to fill up. or you could always sit in the ice belt and hug those with ice drills, I've heard that's also a very long term investment.
Karl Hobb Imperial Margarine 98	Posted - 2012.04.15 07:31:00 - [25] - Quote Dr Silkworth wrote: DIgDUg This would be the most epic mining mini-game. "Fun fact: carebears are not necessary for the game to function." --áTippia
Ziranda Hakuli Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens 17	Posted - 2012.04.15 07:34:00 - [26] - Quote urbino wrote: its a different playstyle and being boring is the only difficulty it has besides figuring out how to move millions of m3's No its not for the social chattering folks. MARKET is boring
Akrasjel Lanate Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 703	Posted - 2012.04.15 09:26:00 - [27] - Quote Ai Shun wrote: masternerdguy wrote: Working as intended. Not empty quoting. Mining is about mining. Whats to improve here. Add this ring mining or something.
Dr Prometheus Gears of Construction Gears Confederation 63	Posted - 2012.04.15 09:40:00 - [28] - Quote You can make mining as fun as you want. When i mine i am working hard to keep up with the rest of the ships, to fill up the Orca. In my case mining is more active then ratting. Or do missions. Yes i may have a bit more ships under my own control, but thats the way i like to play and it works fine. (Yes i would like to have some more stuff hapening while mining, but it should not brake the multiboxing.) Also for people hating the minerals rising in price; start your mininglasers. Dude, where is my Charon?
Jandice Ymladris Perkone Caldari State 9	Posted - 2012.04.15 09:47:00 - [29] - Quote Tbh, mining is one of the few professions where you can socialize with your friends ingame, and earning some money with it. Yes, mining itself is boring, no denying that. But the inactivity that mining requires of you, frees your time to do other stuff, like chatting with friends, checking corpstuff or mails etc. Most other stuff in EVE needs your full attention, making it hard to chat & do something at the same time, mining doesn't suffer from this.
Himnos Altar Angry Hobos Interstellar Hobos 12	Posted - 2012.04.15 09:54:00 - [30] - Quote Baneken wrote: Herping yourDerp wrote: a super hulk miner cake that eats 1 roid in a 3 min cycle would be cool but then minerals would be near free what we need is a reasonable option for miners. Well guess what you already do that sucking the roid in one go part... At least in high sec where roids are quite small and on occasion some belts have been stripped bare already. mmmm.....suck that Kernite. suck it HARD! Second, if you're mining in systems where the belts are stripped, you are doing it WRONG and are more likely to get hit by a suicide ganker. Yes, you may be closer to a trade hub, or there may be more people in the area, but there are more people in the area. If I decided to go on a ganking spree, would I want to roam a constellation where there's hardly anyone or would I rather go to a system that is always being stripped of roids? A system where I could almost literally throw a dart at a wall of balloons. repeatedly, and then mine those sweet, sweet miner tears (speaking as an occasional miner and a lover of tears). Third: NETFLIX. buy it, watch it. Helps keep you sane. Just keep a sharp eye out. Don't watch anything too good or you'll forget your barges, but don't go watching something so horrible as, say, the MTV Spiderman, where you crave for the veldspar to be real so you can jam it into your eyeballs. It's a balance. Fourth: keep an eye on your local for spikes and anyone else in local. Generally if local spikes you might want to dock up for a bit. Oh, my bad, you're in a system that usually has 50+ people, so you can't watch for that, really.

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