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sirovai	Posted - 2009.01.03 11:08:00 - [1] Edited by: sirovai on 03/01/2009 11:16:58 Edited by: sirovai on 03/01/2009 11:16:17 Tip, dont do missions in motslavia. This is Russian salvage thieves territory. Heed my warnings. I just started doing level 4 missions, spent 400m on a ship and equipment to let me do them. I then get no less than 5 seperate pilots warp to my mission area and start salvaging my wrecks. Guess what, they were all russian. How did i know this? Well being called IVAN and BORIS and having russian text in their bio kinda gave it away. - I am not insulting Russia or its people, this is only what I observed. I know CCP have deemed this a fair way to play the game. "Yes, you can leech off people who worked hard for their isk in-game" but it seems like a worrying trend in missioning. I have had to move away from my high quality agent, to a lower quality agent in a less populated area. I ask, why is this allowed? The wrecks would not even be present in Eve world had I not blown the ship up. Also, why are they mostly Russian? Let the "stop whining" posts begin!
Carthag Tsimpo Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.01.03 11:30:00 - [2] Stop whining!
Leandro Salazar Better Dead Then Smeg	Posted - 2009.01.03 11:58:00 - [3] What's even worse than salvage thieves is people selling GTCs and then doing their first L4 mission in a 400 mil ship in a system that anyone with half a brain avoids like the plague. So yeah, stop whining :P And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
FlameGlow Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.03 12:14:00 - [4] Edited by: FlameGlow on 03/01/2009 12:14:34 missionrunners are "people who worked hard for their isk in-game"? _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.
Ancy Denaries Caldari Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.01.03 12:16:00 - [5] Originally by: FlameGlow missionrunners are "people who worked hard for their isk in-game"? While I'm not keen on trolling, this was actually very true. It's WAY too easy to make massive ISK with missionrunning. Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change.
Emily Spankratchet Minmatar Pragmatics	Posted - 2009.01.03 14:32:00 - [6] Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will, no matter if they belong to the same corporation or not and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Stop whining. When I grind missions for cash, I can quite happily get 20mil ISK/hr with virtually no risk. I can't remember the last time I lost a mission ship. I have also never seen a salvage thief in my missions. But that's probably because I don't follow all the other sheep into Motsu. With sensible choice of mission corp, you don't have to go with the crowds, and you don't have to lose agent quality (or quality/system security balance, which is more important). Mind you, I also run missions in low sec, which is another impossible thing according to the whiners. There must be something wrong with me.
Boma Airaken The Divine Comedy Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2009.01.03 14:47:00 - [7] Systems that appeal to lazy ass teenager mission runners who want isk to join a big saucy 0.0 alliance are called spaceshipclashistan. Get it straight ok buddy?
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.01.03 14:56:00 - [8] I agree. Everybody should move over to Dodixie. Suddenly Ninjas speak primarily English, and will be happy to converse with you while we salvage. We're Recruiting!
Chi Quan Perkone	Posted - 2009.01.03 15:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Leandro Salazar What's even worse than salvage thieves is people selling GTCs and then doing their first L4 mission in a 400 mil ship in a system that anyone with half a brain avoids like the plague. So yeah, stop whining :P envious because someone has more rl money than you do? stop whining, quit eve and get a job. can i have your stuff? ---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love
sirovai	Posted - 2009.01.03 15:21:00 - [10] Ah the Eve community. They steal from you, insult you, try to scam and cheat you, shoot you. Best mmo community in the world. Make a post here and you will regret it in 5 seconds.
Mudad	Posted - 2009.01.03 15:32:00 - [11] Originally by: sirovai Ah the Eve community. They steal from you, insult you, try to scam and cheat you, shoot you. Best mmo community in the world. Make a post here and you will regret it in 5 seconds. Well it keeps it interesting
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.01.03 15:54:00 - [12] Originally by: sirovai I ask, why is this allowed? The wrecks would not even be present in Eve world had I not blown the ship up. Also, why are they mostly Russian? Salvage is free to the first person there with a salvager, however, you still have the loot. Why is there a problem? Why do you feel that it is your right to have everything? I trained for the ability to scan out Mission Deadspaces and Salvage wrecks very effectively, just as you trained for Mission Running. Oh, and I cannot speak for Motsu, however, Dodixie has a primarily English speaking Ninja Salvaging component, so please feel free to move here. We'd be happy to have you. We're Recruiting!
Lyvanna Kitaen Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp	Posted - 2009.01.03 15:58:00 - [13] Originally by: sirovai Ah the Eve community. They steal from you, insult you, try to scam and cheat you, shoot you. Best mmo community in the world. Make a post here and you will regret it in 5 seconds. It's not that different from the WoW forums TBH -- at least from what I remember when I played that game 2+ years ago before I discovered Eve.
Terminus Vindictus	Posted - 2009.01.03 16:54:00 - [14] Seems like it's a natural place for wreck-pirates to congregate. Like vultures, they come where the wrecks are, and the more wrecks the more of them show up. It's completely natural, and part of the game. Dunno why you're running missions in Motsu when there are other, better places for mission-running. It's a choice you've made, so live with it.
SirMoric Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.01.04 07:55:00 - [15] Only really easy, and risk-free, thing to do in EVE: Salvaging. Always wondered why they didn't just hail me to get my position? I don't salvage myself, and I don't mind those poor salvagers cleaning up the mess I leave behind. rgds
Ishbuanium Pr0j3ct M4yh3m	Posted - 2009.01.04 09:44:00 - [16] Your tears are precious.
Tristam Izumi Izumi Enterprizes	Posted - 2009.01.04 09:48:00 - [17] I knew it was only a matter of time that you'd make a post like this after whining in Help for hours on end. I also knew the reactions on the forum would be exactly the same as what you got when you whined there.
Pantheon Lea Farmer Boyz	Posted - 2009.01.04 09:58:00 - [18] Go somewhere else, there is plenty of places to run level 4 missions without any dirsturbing elements. Or do some missions, and then do some salvaging, is it so important to you that you salvage you own wrecks. Ninja Salvaging guide. Pantheon Lea
Darth Obvious	Posted - 2009.01.04 10:11:00 - [19] Edited by: Darth Obvious on 04/01/2009 10:13:29 Хуита
Adeena Torcfist Caldari Dark Underground Forces	Posted - 2009.01.04 11:20:00 - [20] you do know, that there are other lv4 High Quality agents in Caldari space. granted, they may not be with the caldari navy, the LP store is pretty much the same, the rewards, bounties & other small things are the same. there really is no great benifit from Caldari navy that other corporations cant offer u know!!
Venomae Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.01.04 11:33:00 - [21] Originally by: sirovai Edited by: sirovai on 03/01/2009 11:16:58 Edited by: sirovai on 03/01/2009 11:16:17 Tip, dont do missions in motslavia. This is Russian salvage thieves territory. Heed my warnings. I just started doing level 4 missions, spent 400m on a ship and equipment to let me do them. I then get no less than 5 seperate pilots warp to my mission area and start salvaging my wrecks. Guess what, they were all russian. How did i know this? Well being called IVAN and BORIS and having russian text in their bio kinda gave it away. - I am not insulting Russia or its people, this is only what I observed. I know CCP have deemed this a fair way to play the game. "Yes, you can leech off people who worked hard for their isk in-game" but it seems like a worrying trend in missioning. I have had to move away from my high quality agent, to a lower quality agent in a less populated area. I ask, why is this allowed? The wrecks would not even be present in Eve world had I not blown the ship up. Also, why are they mostly Russian? Let the "stop whining" posts begin! Well fit full PVP fit next time and pwn them all.
Sofia Kyodai	Posted - 2009.01.04 12:43:00 - [22] Edited by: Sofia Kyodai on 04/01/2009 12:43:49 Was passing through both Motsu and Dodixie last night (at the moment i logged on server showed around 40k ppl online). And surprise surprise, both systems had over 250ppl each - mostly mission runners and ninja salvagers. Well, if you dont have the brainpower to locate other high level hisec agents in remote areas, franky thats your problem. And stop complaining about stuff that is allowed by game mechanics ffs! My combat agent is in a remote system (peak 30 ppl and if that - most passing through) and never had any probs with ninja salvagers. In actual fact, i asked in local if anyone would like to salvage some missions that were either away from base, or i didnt have time to salvage myself. It took all of 10 minutes of search to find the agent, and no, i wont tell you the location
Lrrp Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.04 16:34:00 - [23] Here's a thought. When they warp into your mission just shoot the wrecks they are near. Pretty soon they will get the picture your missions are not very productive. May take a awhile but they will learn. Don't complain young padawan, do.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.01.04 17:48:00 - [24] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 04/01/2009 17:48:03 An organized Russian corp ninjaing in Motsu, like we do in Dixie? Suddenly, Cossacks. I like it. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
KISOGOKU	Posted - 2009.01.04 19:49:00 - [25] LMAO ,good sense of humour good luck . Originally by: sirovai Ah the Eve community. They steal from you, insult you, try to scam and cheat you, shoot you. Best mmo community in the world. Make a post here and you will regret it in 5 seconds.
Ron Armatech	Posted - 2009.01.04 20:09:00 - [26] Originally by: Kahega Amielden An organized Russian corp ninjaing in Motsu, like we do in Dixie? Suddenly, Cossacks. I like it. Cossacks have nothing to do with it, go for Suddenly, Trocki :P
Cassandra Valieries	Posted - 2009.01.04 20:29:00 - [27] Well, the Dodixie Ninjas insult you too Here I was cursing my agent for sending me on a combat mission to Dodixie from a couple of jumps away. Ninja warps in before I even start shooting rats And then he warps out again before I even pop the first rat!!! I've never been so insulted in all my Eve time! Are my wrecks not good enough for ya??? Sigh, ninjas these days... Oh and if anybody catches me missionrunning feel free to salvage, I'm a lazy bum who doesn't bother
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.01.04 21:49:00 - [28] Originally by: sirovai Ah the Eve community. They steal from you, insult you, try to scam and cheat you, shoot you. Best mmo community in the world. Make a post here and you will regret it in 5 seconds. I hope you regret it because even you realized just how a pathetic whine post the OP is. So there are salvage "thieves" in Motsu? Who the hell cares when there are hundreds of equal and better agents to run missions for out there? You spend a good deal of isk on a ship and setup? Well gratz to you. You are well aware that this does not entitle you to anything, right? And if the "thieves" are Russians or not: completely unrelated to the fact that they are busting your missions and salvaging away, so irrelevant to your so called "not insulting Russians" topic. There is no shame in being lesser mentally gifted, but it is the moment you start strutting around showing off your lack of insight that you get the label "stupid". ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
sirovai	Posted - 2009.01.04 23:06:00 - [29] Why must every complaint be met with calls of "whine stfu whine" When did all this start, why are you people so angry? Is it because you are protected behind the internet you feel safe to let your bitterness roam free. I think so. I applaud people who offer constructive suggestions, but to all those people who get a kick out of flaming, think, is it really worth spending your life writing those words. No. Will you look back when you're 80 and think, yeah all those hours I spent on the eve forum was really worth it.
Killer Gandry Caldari Red Horizon Inc	Posted - 2009.01.04 23:50:00 - [30] What makes me more curious is why it takes me days in a row to actually find someone who wants the salvage from my missions. Posted in locals somany times that if people wanted the BM's to the wrecks I left behind just to let me know. In 3 months time exactly 1 (ONE) actually replied and wanted the bookmarks. At the end of that day I got a mail thanking me for about 100 mill in salvage. I don't mind if people wanna salvage the wrecks, but if ya come uninvited I just pop every wreck in sight. Have the descency to ask or be asked then I dont care, think you can make money off of me without me willing to? Fat chance. I just pop all in sight.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.01.04 23:56:00 - [31] Originally by: Killer Gandry What makes me more curious is why it takes me days in a row to actually find someone who wants the salvage from my missions. Same here. I never really understood the "waah waah they steal my wrecks waaah" attitude. Mine just expire uncollected most of the time and I'd gladly ask anybody in even for free (but if they dump me a percentage of the stuff they collect it would be even nicer). _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Dracthera	Posted - 2009.01.05 01:20:00 - [32] Originally by: sirovai Why must every complaint be met with calls of "whine stfu whine" When did all this start, why are you people so angry? Frankly a lot of the so-called 'angry' replies you see here (they're not really angry IMO) are because whiny posts like this are often what causes CCP to change the game (not always for the best) to overcome a non-issue. It's simple social inertia, and you happen to be at the receiving end of it. It takes a lot of whining to overcome the inertia, and this is just part of the weeding process.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.01.05 04:03:00 - [33] Originally by: Akita T Mine just expire uncollected most of the time and I'd gladly ask anybody in even for free (but if they dump me a percentage of the stuff they collect it would be even nicer). I'll add you to my address book and see if you happen to run missions during my play time, in systems that I'm able to get to without border police mugging me
Sierra Lima	Posted - 2009.01.05 11:16:00 - [34] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 04/01/2009 17:48:03 An organized Russian corp ninjaing in Motsu, like we do in Dixie? Suddenly, Cossacks. I like it. I'm reliably informed that a large number of these Russian Ninjas in Motsu, are high-sec alts of Red Alliance members.
Kaya Divine Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:47:00 - [35] Its so fun when ninja salvagers start to approach wrecks and you pop wrecks close to them, its like playing donkey and carrot on a stick game. Sometimes its just what I need to make missions more amusing. I consulted moralists to learn how to appear philosophers to find out what to think and novelists to see what I could get away with and in the end it all came down to one principle:win or die.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:56:00 - [36] Its so fun when Mission Runners start to pop wrecks and you pop wrecks as I approach them, its like they do exactly as they're told. Sometimes its just what I need to make salvaging more amusing. We're Recruiting!
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:20:00 - [37] I think it's amusing that missioners think they've scored some victory by popping the wrecks. Most of us (in SN anyway) aren't exactly desperate for cash, and if we really needed to make omgwtfhueg monies salvaging, we'd be in Amarr space. So why do we do it? Hint: the OP is a big, big clue. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Ghengis Tia	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:37:00 - [38] Edited by: Ghengis Tia on 05/01/2009 20:39:28 Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: sirovai I ask, why is this allowed? The wrecks would not even be present in Eve world had I not blown the ship up. Also, why are they mostly Russian? Salvage is free to the first person there with a salvager, however, you still have the loot. Why is there a problem? Why do you feel that it is your right to have everything? I trained for the ability to scan out Mission Deadspaces and Salvage wrecks very effectively, just as you trained for Mission Running. Oh, and I cannot speak for Motsu, however, Dodixie has a primarily English speaking Ninja Salvaging component, so please feel free to move here. We'd be happy to have you. "You still have the loot"???? Salvage can be as valuable, or more than, the loot itself, and you damn well know it... A Russian got into my deadspace site in Kor-Azor after I spent a significant amount of time finding the site, then clearing it. Anyone who goes into a site he/she has not personally cleared is a lazy a-***, leeching off of some other player's efforts. I followed him and blew up wreck after wreck as he approached them, but he continued on. After awhile I gave up, said dosvydanya* tovarisch and proceeded to salvage what I could. Say and think what you will, anyone who does this is a parasite, plain and simple. You have no honor and insult other players who legimately deserve to get all the rewards from missioning or exploration.
Dedalus77 Junkyard Dogs	Posted - 2009.01.05 21:13:00 - [39] Originally by: Ghengis Tia ...who legimately deserve to get all the rewards from missioning or exploration. Wow, talk about entitlement. Why do you deserve anything? This is EVE, not the local mission runners union office.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.01.05 21:18:00 - [40] Originally by: Ghengis Tia Say and think what you will, anyone who does this is a parasite, plain and simple. You have no honor and insult other players who legimately deserve to get all the rewards from missioning or exploration. MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! OMG, STOP!!! YOU'RE KILLING ME!!! LMAO!!! Please, keep it up... You're making me LOL IRL. We're Recruiting!
Kaya Divine Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.05 22:50:00 - [41] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Its so fun when Mission Runners start to pop wrecks and you pop wrecks as I approach them, its like they do exactly as they're told. Sometimes its just what I need to make salvaging more amusing. Nice try, but fail. So you wasted time, just to be in range of wrecks, who explode around you. While mission runner still will claim cash, and LP for that time you will have a green on your face because you succeeded what? TO have absolutely 0 earned ISK per hour. While that same mission runner can gain 15-25mil/h. Wow, you really did it. I consulted moralists to learn how to appear philosophers to find out what to think and novelists to see what I could get away with and in the end it all came down to one principle:win or die.
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2009.01.05 23:43:00 - [42] I've done some salvage thieving over the last few days, done dodixie & motsu and a couple of less populated places in metropolis. I was doing it as a test to see if it could serve as entertainment for a corp revenue night, instead of the usual mining, ratting, mission nights. Jesus, was I wrong. It's easy enough to do but fark you don't earn much money doing it. it's got to be the worst-paying form of carebearism in the game. I can understand the fun in causing so much whining, I was the object of more than a few boo hoo comments in local and it was hilarious, but only for about half an hour. After that it was very boring and the sheer feebleness of the isk/hour numbers started getting to me badly. Personally I think mission runners need to let go and leave the salvage and loot behind. You can make more money just by ignoring the wrecks and doing another mission in the time you would have taken to loot/salvage anyway. So the whole argument is pointless. But man, I was shocked to see just how crappy the income is from this activity. And bear in mind that since QR the price of salvage has risen a lot, for example fried circuits have gone from around 20k to 38k per unit. Armor plates have gone from 90k to 200k per unit. And it's still tough to earn much money doing this. Whoever is doing it is definitely not doing it for the ISK. Funny thing: The people who cried the most in local when I salvaged their wrecks were other salvage thieves. "I was here first, I own these wrecks" etc. I got a bigger laugh out of that than any comments from mission runners. Apparently they don't 'get' irony.
Kolmogorow Freedom Resources	Posted - 2009.01.06 01:01:00 - [43] Originally by: sirovai Also, why are they mostly Russian? This question has a very bad taste - bad enough to lock this thread.
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2009.01.06 01:26:00 - [44] Originally by: Kolmogorow Originally by: sirovai Also, why are they mostly Russian? This question has a very bad taste - bad enough to lock this thread. Hey look, a Russian trying to make someone look like a racist, how surprising. Not. The OP didn't even mention logoffski or camping broken plexes once.
Harrent Caldari The Leathernecks	Posted - 2009.01.06 04:51:00 - [45] Originally by: Leandro Salazar What's even worse than salvage thieves is people selling GTCs and then doing their first L4 mission in a 400 mil ship in a system that anyone with half a brain avoids like the plague. So yeah, stop whining :P LOL, you just whined in a whine thread. Fail. Dont be mad at kids just because they have more money than you -.- its lame. =----------= Semper Fi
Leandro Salazar Better Dead Then Smeg	Posted - 2009.01.06 09:37:00 - [46] Originally by: Harrent Originally by: Leandro Salazar What's even worse than salvage thieves is people selling GTCs and then doing their first L4 mission in a 400 mil ship in a system that anyone with half a brain avoids like the plague. So yeah, stop whining :P LOL, you just whined in a whine thread. Fail. Dont be mad at kids just because they have more money than you -.- its lame. In EVE, whining in a whine thread is a form of winning I thought :P And I could easily afford getting all my isk via GTCs myself, it just doesn't really fit into my idea of achieving something in a game. But hell I don't even mind it so much when people use GTCs to avoid the timesink of making the isks themselves for something big they have planned, I have been guilty of that myself. Just when people start to sell GTC to compensate lack of brains and/or lack of dedication to learn the ropes, and to top it off come to the forums to whine that the game STILL does not always go their way, that is what summat irritates me. Not to mention the inflation on certain rare items exactly these people create when their first mission ship has to have a Gist shieldbooster... (Though this inflation DID earn me some nice money selling my old gear, I guess every cloud has a silver lining...) And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
Amarone Prime	Posted - 2009.01.06 11:51:00 - [47] Originally by: Ancy Denaries Originally by: FlameGlow missionrunners are "people who worked hard for their isk in-game"? While I'm not keen on trolling, this was actually very true. It's WAY too easy to make massive ISK with missionrunning. Orly? Explain me then cause probably I'm doing something wrong.....until you're talking about mission running 24/24. 1) The reward in ISKs for the missions are way low. 2) Only 2-3 lv4 like AE can give decent amount of ISK with bounties, other sucks. 3) Salvage is not always operable cause ninja stealers, and even if always there are only few rigs with decent value and you'll need tons of wrecks to gather the right items. 4) Storyline with precious implants pop once in like 12 missions, and lv4 are long ones. 5) No faction drops (dont say stupid things, never get one in months) 6)LP were good source of ISK years ago, now you can get very low profit from any LP store. So please tell me the "WAY too easy" road, I'm here to learn
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.06 13:46:00 - [48] Originally by: Ghengis Tia […] players who legimately deserve to get all the rewards from missioning or exploration. Fortunately, you do get all the rewards from missioning and exploration. The LP is yours and yours alone. The mission payout is yours and yours alone. The time bonus is yours and yours alone. Beyond the actual mission rewards, you also get the bounties (if you actually do the work of killing the rats) and the loot (even if you don't). As for the salvage, you're the first on scene to claim it, and if you fail to do so, you don't deserve it anyway. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.06 13:53:00 - [49] Originally by: Amarone Prime So please tell me the "WAY too easy" road, I'm here to learn Get mission. Do mission. Cash in 20mil/h even if you do it wrong (like I do: using a HAC, salvaging and looting as I go, not including LP-to-ISK conversion). ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Dedalus77 Junkyard Dogs	Posted - 2009.01.06 14:53:00 - [50] Originally by: Tiirae Jesus, was I wrong. It's easy enough to do but fark you don't earn much money doing it. That probably because, as a non-dedicated salvager, you're doing it wrong. You don't have the skills or the proper ship fit to salvage efficiently. I personally bring in around 15-20mil/hr from salvage (and sometimes loot) because I am skilled for the job. Thinking that all you have to do to salvage is fit a salvager to make boatloads of isk salvaging is the reason why missionbears don't understand that we work just as hard to get the salvage as they do to run the mission. If you really want to salvage, you have to spec for it.
Ghengis Tia	Posted - 2009.01.06 16:18:00 - [51] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Ghengis Tia [à] players who legimately deserve to get all the rewards from missioning or exploration. Fortunately, you do get all the rewards from missioning and exploration. The LP is yours and yours alone. The mission payout is yours and yours alone. The time bonus is yours and yours alone. Beyond the actual mission rewards, you also get the bounties (if you actually do the work of killing the rats) and the loot (even if you don't). As for the salvage, you're the first on scene to claim it, and if you fail to do so, you don't deserve it anyway. I paid for the ammo to kill that NPC, and took the time and effort to go about the combat involved. Doesn't that entitle me to first crack at salvage? When there are 50+ wrecks and maybe 7 have loot, the salvage becomes as important or more so than the loot. Mission running has to be easier and more profitable (when you get all the rewards, including salvage) than just ninja salvaging other players' wrecks. Are you ninja-salvagers so lazy that this is how you want to play this game? Just a bunch of hyenas waiting to feast on the carcasses? Granted some Mission Runners/Explorers could care less about salvage, so why don't you first ask them if you can salvage their wrecks? If they say no, then move on. At least you have the common courtesy to recognize that the wrecks wouldn't exist if not for the other player's efforts and expense. I know its a game mechanic that probably won't be changed, but I don't have to like it or the players who take advantage of it. As fare as being "first on the scene", I AM on the scene, and until I leave, the wrecks and salvage belong to the player that busted his/her ass to create them.
Ko Shimin Minmatar Independent Terran Empire Terran Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.06 16:25:00 - [52] Stop whining!!! Motsu is predestined to be a russian enclave.. the name says it all: MotSU.. SU.. Soviet Union..
Terminus Vindictus	Posted - 2009.01.06 16:35:00 - [53] Originally by: Ghengis Tia Doesn't that entitle me to first crack at salvage? No, it doesn't. You get the right of first refusal essentially by being in the middle of all those wrecks and having the knowledge of where the wrecks are, that's it. Originally by: Ghengis Tia I paid for the ammo to kill that NPC, and took the time and effort to go about the combat involved. By your same logic, the salvagers paid for those probes they're using to find your salvaging field, and took the time and effort to run their search, so they have an equal claim to their 'kill' which in this case happens to be your wrecks. It comes down to the fact that you have many other choices you could make in your playstyle to avoid this issue, and you're choosing instead to cry about it. Get a second account to salvage your own kills, mission in a quieter system that's doesn't have the attention of the salvage thieves, train for a ship that can do it's own salvaging, etc., etc. It's a game of choices, and it seems you're making the wrong ones for yourself. You only have yourself to blame for the outcome, so perhaps it's time to grow up and take some responsibility for those choices.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.01.06 19:15:00 - [54] Originally by: Terminus Vindictus No, it doesn't. You get the right of first refusal essentially by being in the middle of all those wrecks and having the knowledge of where the wrecks are, that's it. <...snip...> It's a game of choices, and it seems you're making the wrong ones for yourself. You only have yourself to blame for the outcome, so perhaps it's time to grow up and take some responsibility for those choices. I like this guy. Are you looking for a home? We have a nice, quiet system, full of Mission Runners you might be interested in. We're Recruiting!
Kolmogorow Freedom Resources	Posted - 2009.01.06 19:45:00 - [55] Originally by: Tiirae Originally by: Kolmogorow Originally by: sirovai Also, why are they mostly Russian? This question has a very bad taste - bad enough to lock this thread. Hey look, a Russian trying to make someone look like a racist, how surprising. Not. Someone with a Russian sounding virtual name like IVAN, BORIS or Kolmogorow and writing something in Cyrillic letters is not necessarily a Russian. Or do you believe that someone with an ingame name "Heraklit" is really a 2500 years old Greek philosopher?
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.01.06 19:51:00 - [56] Originally by: Kolmogorow Or do you believe that someone with an ingame name "Heraklit" is really a 2500 years old Greek philosopher? Actually, with a name like that, I'd lean more towards an Eastern European Female Bodybuilder with an issue shaving her more intimate parts. We're Recruiting!
Salliene Gallente Terracorp Technologies Dark Trinity Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.06 20:08:00 - [57] Originally by: Kaya Divine Nice try, but fail. So you wasted time, just to be in range of wrecks, who explode around you. While mission runner still will claim cash, and LP for that time you will have a green on your face because you succeeded what? TO have absolutely 0 earned ISK per hour. While that same mission runner can gain 15-25mil/h. Wow, you really did it. Fact : I have been playing EVE happily for over 2 years total and my wallet balance has never been over 70 million. One Girls Journey through the EVE Universe
Suri Akagawa Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.06 23:27:00 - [58] I'm confused and am hoping someone can clarify some things for me (because the Eve community is so loving and generous :P). I'm also doing L4 missions out of Motsu, in my 100m isk ship (why on earth would anyone need a 400m isk ship for L4's?) and I've never had anyone salvaging my kills but me. I've never seen anyone warp into my missions, and I've done many of these missions. I was under the impression (mayhaps wrongly) that, until I turn the mission in, the "deadspace" the mission is in is mine and only mine. Once I turn it in, it becomes empty space, which is why I salvage the thing clean before turning it in, but I've never seen a soul in any of my mission spaces, nor lost any salvage to them. Am I just lucky and the Russky Ninjorz have passed me by? If so, how could they get into my mission space? Do every mission in the zone and way point them, and just jump around to them randomly, hoping to catch someone doing a mission and leech off their kills? ---------- "Money frees you from doing things you dislike. Since I dislike doing nearly everything, money is handy."
Markizah	Posted - 2009.01.06 23:31:00 - [59] down with the burzhui - all hail Motslavia!
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.01.06 23:45:00 - [60] Originally by: Suri Akagawa Am I just lucky and the Russky Ninjorz have passed me by? If so, how could they get into my mission space? Do every mission in the zone and way point them, and just jump around to them randomly, hoping to catch someone doing a mission and leech off their kills? First understand that ninja salvaging is not about the salvaging. See the name of Tchell's corp? Tear Extraction Services? They're not so much interested in the salvage as much as the severe emotional response of people like the guy who started this thread. So if you're running around in a battlecruiser, they're not so interested in you. If you're running around in a battleship, it's more likely that you're an established mission runner with lots of expensive (and highly saleable) modules fitted to your ship. If you're running in a busy missioning system, you might get lucky that they find someone else before they find you. It may also be that they popped into your deadspace in a covops frigate and you just didn't see them. As for how they find you, a quick chat to Google will help you find a Ninja Salvaging Guide, I'm sure.
Suri Akagawa Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.07 00:02:00 - [61] Originally by: Mara Rinn As for how they find you, a quick chat to Google will help you find a Ninja Salvaging Guide, I'm sure. You were right. Wow. I'm not sure which is worse, the joy these guys take in hurting other people, or the encouragement they get from CCP. I mean, all that it would take is flagging wrecks like containers so Concord came when someone hit an "owned" wreck. That's twice I've looked at something CCP has in Eve and thought "Hmm, apparently CCP only wants d-bags for customers." I guess I'm a lucky little fish...so far. ---------- "Money frees you from doing things you dislike. Since I dislike doing nearly everything, money is handy."
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.01.07 00:38:00 - [62] Originally by: Suri Akagawa You were right. Wow. I'm not sure which is worse, the joy these guys take in hurting other people, or the encouragement they get from CCP. Two things: First, EVE Online is touted as a PvP game. The entire game from the moment you create your character allows you to engage in some form of player versus player competition. Everything from posting buy orders 0.01 ISK higher than the next guy, through to ninja salvaging and tricking people in to letting you shoot them. As such, everything that CCP does to prevent people hurting each other pulls EVE away from being a PvP game. Second, you'll find that the people who are the worst "douche bags" in game tend to be the most civil and well behaved people outside the game. Outside the game they do their best to cooperate and behave civilly towards incompetent managers, idiot customers and colleagues who should have forfeited the right to live years ago. They maintain control and discipline in their daily lives only because they have games like EVE where they can vent their frustration at the world by channelling the very douchbaggery that they have to put up with in their day to day lives. Don't be so judgemental! Oh, and third: I find the whole idea of ownership of wrecks to be a pain in the neck.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.01.07 01:06:00 - [63] Originally by: Mara Rinn Second, you'll find that the people who are the worst "douche bags" in game tend to be the most civil and well behaved people outside the game. QFT, although, you'd probably find me to be extremely civil in-game as well, unless I'm attempting to deal with someone who's being an insufferable jerk. I'll let you in on a little secret - depending on my mood, if someone asks nicely, I'll usually forgo their little Deadspace haven for another. (The trick is, if I'm looking to provoke someone's anger, or get them to Concord themselves trying to blow me up, it's a lot easier when they start out swearing and calling names.) Originally by: Mara Rinn Outside the game they do their best to cooperate and behave civilly towards incompetent managers, idiot customers and colleagues who should have forfeited the right to live years ago. They maintain control and discipline in their daily lives only because they have games like EVE where they can vent their frustration at the world by channelling the very douchbaggery that they have to put up with in their day to day lives. /me looks around nervously. Have we met? Originally by: Mara Rinn Don't be so judgemental! I knew I liked you. Originally by: Mara Rinn Oh, and third: I find the whole idea of ownership of wrecks to be a pain in the neck. Don't get me started! (No really. I've got sore fingers from typing my views on wreck ownership.) We're Recruiting!
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.07 01:12:00 - [64] Edited by: Tippia on 07/01/2009 01:13:04 Originally by: Suri Akagawa I'm not sure which is worse, the joy these guys take in hurting other people, or the encouragement they get from CCP. […] That's twice I've looked at something CCP has in Eve and thought "Hmm, apparently CCP only wants d-bags for customers." I can only assume that you also look at what Valve has done in CS and TF, or what iD have done with the Doom and Quake series, and come to the same conclusion… Right? I mean, they very much encourage people to shoot each other in the face, and that seems even more d-baggy than just nicking his stuff. Or maybe you've just misjudged the nature of EVE, thinking it's like it's YAMSO (Yet Another Massive Singleplayer Online) game, like those other PvE-fests out there. The truth is, there is no PvE in EVE. The sooner you realise this, the better it will be for you, either because you get with the program, or because you figure out it's not for you and quit. Everything you do affects other people. Everything other people do affects you. At no point are you not competing with just about every other player in the game — it's 100% PvP, no matter how friendly and collegial you may be about doing your own preferred thing. Welcome to EVE — it's probably unlike anything you've ever seen. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Deluviar Amarr Comrades in Construction	Posted - 2009.01.07 02:19:00 - [65] Edited by: Deluviar on 07/01/2009 02:23:23 Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 07/01/2009 01:13:04 Originally by: Suri Akagawa I'm not sure which is worse, the joy these guys take in hurting other people, or the encouragement they get from CCP. [à] That's twice I've looked at something CCP has in Eve and thought "Hmm, apparently CCP only wants d-bags for customers." I can only assume that you also look at what Valve has done in CS and TF, or what iD have done with the Doom and Quake series, and come to the same conclusionà Right? I mean, they very much encourage people to shoot each other in the face, and that seems even more d-baggy than just nicking his stuff. Or maybe you've just misjudged the nature of EVE, thinking it's like it's YAMSO (Yet Another Massive Singleplayer Online) game, like those other PvE-fests out there. The truth is, there is no PvE in EVE. The sooner you realise this, the better it will be for you, either because you get with the program, or because you figure out it's not for you and quit. Everything you do affects other people. Everything other people do affects you. At no point are you not competing with just about every other player in the game ù it's 100% PvP, no matter how friendly and collegial you may be about doing your own preferred thing. Welcome to EVE ù it's probably unlike anything you've ever seen. Well - that is the biggest truth I've seen so far... :) If you don't like the pvp aspect, go play some World of Warcraft on a PvE server. Oh and I am personally a mission-***** in high-sec... Yes, you damned ninja-salvaging scumbags can be a pain when having a really nice mission. On the other side... If it is such a big problem for me, I should move to low-sec or 0.0 where I at least could shoot you guys. So no hard feelings from my side. :) "Who said an apoc is supposed to last more then 2 days?"
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.01.07 02:52:00 - [66] Originally by: Deluviar Yes, you damned ninja-salvaging scumbags can be a pain when having a really nice mission. You wouldn't mind running World's Collide for me, would you? Thanks! Originally by: Deluviar So no hard feelings from my side. :) The feeling is mutual. We're Recruiting!

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