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Balrokenx
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.01.04 19:40:00 -
[61]
There is a reason why all pve mmo's but wow fail, because wow has pushed the expected standard up so high for pve content that you need a mint + 10 years to even develop a pve game that could match it. While the pvp market has barely been touched.
If you did a flip flop on eve now and made it carebear friendly all you would see is 100k+ subscribers quitting on the same day then haemorrhaging all your new subscribers over the next year.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2009.01.04 19:41:00 -
[62]
they could start a separate game to cator to carebears if they really want to Trashed sig, Shark was here |
CyberGh0st
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.01.05 11:31:00 -
[63]
And we got a new record, more than 45000 peak concurrent users :
http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2662&tid=1
I'd say EVE Online is doing great :p
Cyberwiz aka CyberGh0st aka Mentakh Active @ EvE Online Favorites : DAoC-SI/SWG Pre CU-NGE/Ryzom Retired @ WoW/LOTRO/WAR/Planetside/Entropia/UO/Lineage/GW/EQ/Jumpgate/Dofus/AoC |
123GuessWho
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Posted - 2009.01.05 11:41:00 -
[64]
OP is a sony station employee looking for a new game to ruin!
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Molly Mayhem
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.05 12:08:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Molly Mayhem on 05/01/2009 12:08:24
Originally by: Armoured C
Originally by: Yelan Zhou
Originally by: Armoured C just look what happened to conan
What happened to Conan?
level 20 appreantly
So, so, so true.
Shortly followed by emorage, exploiting and massive quitting.
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Clementina
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.01.05 12:32:00 -
[66]
The original post reads almost like an infomercial for some investment method promising easy and fast money for little or no work.
Anyway, making Eve more like WoW will simply kill Eve. Everyone who wants to play WoW is already playing WoW. The most you could hope for really is WoW's sloppy seconds; People ****ed off at blizzard for nerfing something. However they'll return to their native game soon enough.
Honestly, what will succeed in this MMOG market is a fantasy game that is very much like Eve.
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Belmarduk
Amarr M.A.R.S. Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.01.05 12:56:00 -
[67]
Originally by: KiaTader Edited by: KiaTader on 04/01/2009 00:03:18
DRIVEL /discuss
**** off back to Wow and leave our game alone
Mainchar:
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.05 14:50:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Clementina The original post reads almost like an infomercial for some investment method promising easy and fast money for little or no work.
Anyway, making Eve more like WoW will simply kill Eve. Everyone who wants to play WoW is already playing WoW. The most you could hope for really is WoW's sloppy seconds; People ****ed off at blizzard for nerfing something. However they'll return to their native game soon enough.
Honestly, what will succeed in this MMOG market is a fantasy game that is very much like Eve.
Darkfall looks interesting in this respect.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.01.05 15:10:00 -
[69]
Originally by: SiJira they could start a separate game to cator to carebears if they really want to
PvP is the heart, PvE is the lungs (or the other way around if you prefer). EVE can not survive with these split into 2 bodies.
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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brinelan
Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.01.05 15:35:00 -
[70]
Catering to the wow kiddies dosent work. look at any recent mmo launch and see what that crowd does.
If you dont like eve the way it is, then dont play.. simple as that. This is a pvp game, yes even in hisec... accept it for what it is or go back to wow.
Eve is one of the few games that has gone up steadily in subscribers over the years, to me that means that ccp is doing something better then most right now. The typical mmo levels off or declines rapidly and many are on life support at the 5 year mark, not hitting peak user records like eve just did. Even wow has leveled off on subscribers lately I believe, at least you dont hear them making a stink about numbers nearly as much as you used to.
In reality, other companies need to be asking ccp how they can keep people coming in and growing their subscriber base year after year.
Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield. |
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Elena Morin'staal
Minmatar Tau Online Explorator Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.05 15:39:00 -
[71]
Well, from CCP's side, they'd probably love to have 13 million people online at once, and buying subs.
From our point, the actual players, always remember Quality > Quantity.
Sure, you could WoWify Eve, and get more players. But you'd lose the higher quality players that Eve has, that WoW lacks.
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Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.05 16:01:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 05/01/2009 16:02:55
Originally by: KiaTader Edited by: KiaTader on 04/01/2009 00:03:18
Has CCP ever wondered what it would be like for them if they earned twice as much and be 10x as successful as now if only they didn't cater to such a small market?
Do you think CCP would ever give in to the hunger for a faster car irl, or a few more ho ho ho's at christmas by making the game more casual friendly and safe so they get more subscribers, and in that turn, more money for their pockets? I'm talking from 300.000 subscribers to 2mil+ !
"Well done dev team, we're earning 10x as much now! Here's a raise in your pay and a big fat bonus!"
/discuss
There once was a Sci-Fi/space MMO that was skills based and didn't have levels. It was considered to be very hard core, and at one time, certain characters (not ships) could be PERMANENTLY killed if they died too many times, either to pvp or pve.
It had at it's peak about 300,000 subs, same as EVE today. It was at that peak when it was the most hardcore.
The developers and publisher then began to think like the OP, that they can have "millions of subs" due to WOW. So they set out (behind the player's backs, who liked the game very much as it was and just wanted bug and balance fixes and content added) to change the game twice within a 6 month period, the first change dumbing down the combat system and introducing levels, and the second cutting 32 professions down to 9 and removing skills entirely. Combat was speeded up to the point your character appeared to be on speed or something, and replaced turn based combat with a pseudo FPS. One of the 9 professions used to be an alpha class, most powerful in the game, that took months or YEARS of work in game to unlock and template was now given away at character creation and nerfed into one of the weakest. This was the equivalent of giving noob toons a Titan on character creation but nerfing it down to being a Rifter w/ civilian gatling guns.
The result? 300,000 subscribers shrank to 30,000 (or less) which is where they are at currently. 3 years of trying to tweak the new game core systems that nobody wanted hasn't done anything to heal the unprecedented breach of trust between game developer and game player, nor returned many (if any) of the hundreds of thousands of former subscribers.
I am, of course, speaking of Sony Online Entertainment and the infamous Star Wars Galaxies "New Game Experience".
CCP, DONT make the mistake they made. Had they kept on with the original core concept of SWG, just as you have with EVE, they might be celebrating another year of growth for a 5+ year old game just as EVE is.
--- My opinions are my own and do not necessarily represent those of my corp or alliance. |
WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.05 17:54:00 -
[73]
Here is what all you ignorant ppl don't understand.
You cannot match / beat wow at what it does. If you TRY you will fail.
Eve is a good "diffrent" game. If it tried to be like wow everyone would leave, exactly the oposite of what you think would happen.
----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
"Nothing about Eve should be easy. Not even ganking." -Rhohan
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Strel Samodelkin
Caldari Nationalist Party
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Posted - 2009.01.05 18:11:00 -
[74]
Star Wars Galaxies went in this direction, eliminating over 20 professions, and making another bad WoW clone. It went from being one of the most unique MMORPGs to a very crappy clone. I do agree that SOME things could be made in Eve to make stuff better, but the line between what is now and "mass appeal" should be treaded VERY carefully!
Caldari Nationalist Party |
Tiirae
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2009.01.05 19:05:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Arthalion Thoidon
Originally by: Tiirae
As for the OP, I will say that if Eve survives the next 2 or 3 years; it's basically inevitable that it will go more and more mainstream. Shareholders demand growth, it's the scourge of successful niche companies everywhere.
Uhm, I'd like to know which shareholders CCP should be worried about. Pretty darn sure the only shareholders CCP has are the devs( or at least some of them), ain't no greedy bastards telling them what to do with their game. A game some of them have been working on for the last 11 or 12 years, I think.
That was true when it started but now it's quite different. The last list I saw had Hillmar down as having 3% and he was the biggest of the original 'dev' shareholders.
The bulk of the shares are owned by investment firms who see CCP just the same as they would see any other investment. They demand growth year on year and sooner or later they will start putting pressure on CCP to attract a wider audience to keep the growth coming.
Hopefully they will achieve that through the WoD MMO and will be able to leave Eve as it is. But it's equally likely that WoD will fail and Eve will stay the main cash-cow for many years.
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Doctor Remulak
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Posted - 2009.01.05 19:18:00 -
[76]
OP makes no sense to me. Eve is the most casual friendly game out there. Your skill train even when you are not playing. People can hide behind alts to avoid repercussions for scamming/killing, etc. There is a vast area of high-security space where the average player will never engage in non-consensual pvp.
CCP can keep Eve just as it is and still make it more widely popular by doing the following: 1. Advertising 2. Improving the learning curve. This is why most newbies quit imo. They ignore the warning and take back from the canflipper or whatever and lose their ship. Next thing you know, they are quitting. 3. Improving the game manual. Give people better tools to learn the game. 4. Adding more pve content, be it missions, encounters or whatever. Seems like they have been doing this. 5. Improve the UI and allow reasonable UI mods.
I honestly don't think that letting people fly back to their destroyed ship as a ghost and returning it to them will make Eve more successful. They just need to make it a little more understandable and approachable for the non-gamer and/or WoW-gamer (ok, maybe not for them, lol), and to let people know Eve exists.
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Par'Gellen
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.05 19:56:00 -
[77]
Personally I think the OP is spot on. CCP really could rake it in with another shard that is friendlier to new players. Most friends of mine that have tried Eve quit because of this.
The only people I can think of that wouldn't like a friendlier Eve and might quit over it would be the psychopaths and real life has taught us that they are a raving lunatic minority anyway. No loss there. In fact their abscence would be a great improvement.
I'd love to see a version of Eve where the players aren't pitted against each other on an individual level but rather against a common enemy. Even something as simple as a divided universe with one faction on one side and another faction on the other. Let the carebears stay in safe space on the ends doing their thing and let the PvP'ers mix it up in the middle doing theirs.
Sandbox is fine but when the sand is all mixed with cat poo it's not so much fun anymore.
That's just me though. You're mileage may vary... ---
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ShadowMaiden
Amarr Metal Machine
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Posted - 2009.01.05 20:11:00 -
[78]
Originally by: KiaTader Edited by: KiaTader on 04/01/2009 00:03:18
Has CCP ever wondered what it would be like for them if they earned twice as much and be 10x as successful as now if only they didn't cater to such a small market?
Which if you think about it, is marketing genius - Develop and manage a game so badly that it doesn't look like it's worth competing with.
I wish I was a 3ft doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.01.05 20:15:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Par'Gellen Stuff
Funniest troll I've read all day
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Biolaja Tista
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.01.05 20:42:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Originally by: KiaTader
Stuff
/discuss
Isn't this what the new CCP MMO is all about? Doing a mainstream MMO, using the whine threads posted in EVE forums as a guide, that tells how to cater to the needs of the people who will never play a game like this.
Actually, they said in an interview that their new MMO, World of Darkness, would cater to a different niche (AKA goths, punks, vampire lifestylers, neopagans, furries, various other subcultures, etc) in order to not cannibalize the EVE subscriber base. That doesn't necessarily mean it will be more mainstream. But taking place in the modern day and being focused on vampires, werewolves, witches, faeries, etc is a definite plus. _________________
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Killer Kelly
Allied Tactical Unit Brutally Organized Ruthless Gangsters
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Posted - 2009.01.05 20:47:00 -
[81]
I'd take the loyal niche market over the ephemeral mainstream market any day. EVE is the proverbial tortoise, with its loyal 250k paying their 15 bucks a month, a number that grows steadily. The hare gets its millions of subscribers who pay their 15 bucks for three months then decide the game sucks or they're bored. The way I see EVE is a huge underground city that you have to pry the gates off of to get into. It may be tough to get in, but you'll never run out of things to do once you're inside. The way that I would see EVE if I were CCP was a seed game. A steady dependable source of income that could be used to invest into other new games. Of course, I doubt we'll see games from CCP during the global financial crisis but maybe later.
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Motaka
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Posted - 2009.01.06 02:25:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Tiirae
Originally by: Aneu Angellus This is probably the most idiotic pointless post i have ever skimmed...
Actually it's quite an interesting post, it cuts right to the meat behind a few changes recently that suggest they are slowly leaning in the friendly/safe direction. I expect quite a lot of discussion to come in this thread.
You have, however, perfectly described your own contribution. Well done.
As for the OP, I will say that if Eve survives the next 2 or 3 years; it's basically inevitable that it will go more and more mainstream. Shareholders demand growth, it's the scourge of successful niche companies everywhere.
The only hope we have is that someone else produces 'wow in space' first and corners that market, dominating so much that the CCP shareholders know they can't compete...
I hope that's what happens.
You raise some valid points,pity that CCP is a privately owned company and thus lacking in the shareholder department.
EvE has been running quite successfully on its business model for years,but the WoW slant it's been taking of late is beginning to try my patients. _______________________________________________ Motaka ~ DirtyHarry ~ Original F-E Material |
Rondo Gunn
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.06 02:43:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Motaka EvE has been running quite successfully on its business model for years,but the WoW slant it's been taking of late is beginning to try my patience.
Fixed that for you. Unless of course you work in hospital full of EVE players in which case I apologize.
Actually shareholders seem like a bad idea. Imagine board meetings where idiots who only crunch numbers and drink mimosa's for brunch are trying to come up with a way to increase sales, drive up the price of shares. First idea on the table will be: "WOW and Blizzard. What can we do to get THOSE numbers?" Say bye to pvp and hello to Hello Kitty in Space.
shin ku myo u |
Clementina
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.01.06 03:20:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Par'Gellen The only people I can think of that wouldn't like a friendlier Eve and might quit over it would be the psychopaths and real life has taught us that they are a raving lunatic minority anyway.
Actually I would argue that most players of Eve are people that; while, of course, have an affinity towards ganking, also have a perverse affinity towards being ganked. Some of my favorite fights, for example, were fights that I lost. Geting rid of the raving lunatics will also get rid of everyone else.
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Tiirae
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2009.01.06 04:01:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Motaka
Originally by: Tiirae
Originally by: Aneu Angellus This is probably the most idiotic pointless post i have ever skimmed...
Actually it's quite an interesting post, it cuts right to the meat behind a few changes recently that suggest they are slowly leaning in the friendly/safe direction. I expect quite a lot of discussion to come in this thread.
You have, however, perfectly described your own contribution. Well done.
As for the OP, I will say that if Eve survives the next 2 or 3 years; it's basically inevitable that it will go more and more mainstream. Shareholders demand growth, it's the scourge of successful niche companies everywhere.
The only hope we have is that someone else produces 'wow in space' first and corners that market, dominating so much that the CCP shareholders know they can't compete...
I hope that's what happens.
You raise some valid points,pity that CCP is a privately owned company and thus lacking in the shareholder department.
EvE has been running quite successfully on its business model for years,but the WoW slant it's been taking of late is beginning to try my patients.
Ha ha one day when you leave high school you might learn that private companies have shareholders too, and they are no less demanding that the shareholders of private companies. Only a tiny percentage of CCP is owned by people who play the game or even understand it.
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Sedious Bloke
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Posted - 2009.01.06 04:07:00 -
[86]
tbh if they did it would just be an infinite number of noobs with an infinite number of pimped out ships that had no earthly clue how to fly them. It would be a pirates wet dream. of course it would also cause eve to implode into a black hole of pure suck and would soon go under but it would be a glorious few weeks.
the only mmos that use micro payments are the ones that suck so much ass no one will pay monthly for them.
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Jaabaa Prime
Minmatar Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.01.06 04:10:00 -
[87]
Originally by: KiaTader ... by making the game more casual friendly and safe ...
You don't seem to understand something. EVE is the way it is because it is exactly what CCP wants it to be. --
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Diek Ran
Amarr Autonums
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Posted - 2009.01.06 04:13:00 -
[88]
Originally by: KiaTader Edited by: KiaTader on 04/01/2009 00:03:18
...
/discuss
materialism FTL bailouts FTL suits FTL
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Napro
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.06 06:10:00 -
[89]
they could just charge twice as much and you idiots would still pay it.
f
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.01.06 06:43:00 -
[90]
That's like saying "your wife could make a whole lot of extra money if she wasn't so moral and started hooking in the neighborhood.. 100 dollars an hour extra income! who can resist?"
you want CCP to whore themselves out, turning tricks for these ******s
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