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Priestlever Lock
Taipan Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.04 09:19:00 -
[1]
Currently doing L4 missions in Amarr space with the following pair of ships:
* Abaddon (tank - navy repper, 4 hardeners, heatsink/AB, armor rigs) * Harbinger (damage - 4 heatsinks, 2 overdrives, painter, tracking, AB)
With drones they push through high-sec L4 missions with only the occasional warp-out (gets through AE in 60 mins). I have lost a few harbys I will admit, but it's only a 60m isk ship.
Any suggestions on this as a missioning pair? Care to suggest a better pair?
I'm on course for Paladin/Absolution within a month. This will increase the tank on the Tank, but only increase tank on the Damage ship...
Thanks for your thoughts..
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Deluviar
Amarr Comrades in Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.04 09:30:00 -
[2]
Why not train your alt up for repping instead? That way you can focus your main bs on dealing and taking damage and then leave it to that small ship to repair the bs. Also - you could eventually use the bc for that purpose, you might want to fit a heavy tank on it though. And lots of cap rechargers... "Who said an apoc is supposed to last more then 2 days?" |
Priestlever Lock
Taipan Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.04 09:53:00 -
[3]
Well, the Abaddon can tank 90% of L4 situations (EFT says: 726 dps perma against therm50/kin50) and the max damage Harby adds up to 692 dps to the abaddon's 677 (again, EFT numbers at close range with T2 pulses. 20km damage looks more like 566 and 651.)
The main problem is that the Abaddon can't perma-tank and fire the guns, but I'm killing stuff fast enough that it doesn't usually eventuate.
I think your strategy of a logistics ship instead of the Harby would be ideal for L5s, but I've not done those yet. |
Steve Celeste
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Posted - 2009.01.04 10:37:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Priestlever Lock I'm killing stuff fast enough
And that's how you run lvl 4's for amazing isk/hour
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Leandro Salazar
Better Dead Then Smeg
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Posted - 2009.01.04 11:10:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 04/01/2009 11:15:45
Originally by: Priestlever Lock With drones they push through high-sec L4 missions with only the occasional warp-out (gets through AE in 60 mins). I have lost a few harbys I will admit, but it's only a 60m isk ship.
Quote: but I'm killing stuff fast enough that it doesn't usually eventuate.
Considering I can do all applicable L4s in an Abaddon solo without warping out, much less losing a ship, you must be doing something wrong. And 60 mins for AE is an awful time for AE with ONE ship, and simply pathetic with two, so in the grand scheme of things, you are not nearly killing stuff fast enough.
I don't know WHAT you are doing wrong, but you are definitely doing something very wrong. By your choice of example hardeners, I would guess the first thing you are doing wrong is not running for Amarr agents? You know, you should NOT be fighting against primarily Guristas/Serpentis in laser ships if you have even a remote interest in making good isk/hour.
For starters, two Abaddons or Apoc and Abaddon would of course do better than Abaddon + Harby. Abaddon actually excels as gank ship, not as tank ship. And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
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Deluviar
Amarr Comrades in Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.04 11:13:00 -
[6]
I am wondering if you actually bother with salvaging after each mission. if you do then combine it. Be lazy, you got an alt there... Your problem is that you can permatank or outgun them with your abaddon without problem as long as your cap is holding up. You still want to use your alt for something useful... Fit a ship with 1 or 2 remote cap rechargers to help with the cap thing. Have your abaddon bring heavy or sentry drones along, use your support ship to bring light/medium drones along. And otherwise, fit it to be able to handle eventual damage to it and otherwise fit salvager and tractor beams to it. Crazy idea, but as far as I can see, you make good use of your alt, you are over the problem of first having to go back to pick up a salvage ship and you will give your main a better cap support without being blown out of space. Not to forget that salvager and tractor beams is cheaper then guns in case you should lose the support ship. ;) "Who said an apoc is supposed to last more then 2 days?" |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.01.04 11:23:00 -
[7]
I would go with 2 paladins. why the hell not?
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Deluviar
Amarr Comrades in Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.04 11:25:00 -
[8]
Uhhh, the training time... LOL "Who said an apoc is supposed to last more then 2 days?" |
Venomae
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.01.04 11:29:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Deluviar Why not train your alt up for repping instead? That way you can focus your main bs on dealing and taking damage and then leave it to that small ship to repair the bs. Also - you could eventually use the bc for that purpose, you might want to fit a heavy tank on it though. And lots of cap rechargers...
I had Abaddon + Guardian once. Now I would use two Paladins instead of that. DPS is better tank...
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Ferret
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Posted - 2009.01.04 11:34:00 -
[10]
I experimented with various setups with two accounts, the best for me with my current skills is the following:
As the tank tends to get jammed a lot it is a good thing that he is not my main DPS. This tank can tank any lvl 4mission with ease, I just fly in and agro ALL packs, send out drones and start clearing up the wrecks. [Dominix, Tank] Damage Control II 2x Large Armor Repairer II 4x Armor Hardener II
5x Cap Recharger II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II 2x Small Tractor Beam I 2x Salvager I Civilian Gatling Railgun
2x Capacitor Control Circuit I Auxiliary Nano Pump I
[Apocalypse, DPS] Large Armor Repairer II 4x Heat Sink II 2x Armor Hardener II
Target Painter I 3x Cap Recharger II
8x Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Energy Collision Accelerator I Capacitor Control Circuit I Ancillary Current Router I
Hammerhead I x3
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Laina Delapore
Caldari Red Sun Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.04 11:39:00 -
[11]
Just get some friends and run your missions in a fleet. You know, with other players?
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Priestlever Lock
Taipan Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.04 11:51:00 -
[12]
You are right - there is another 100 DPS in the 'Geddon - with only a few weeks of training. It isn't as mobile though (a bit over half the speed) and uses mega guns instead of heavy.
I'm happy with 60 mins for Angels Extravaganza. It isn't an ideal match for damage with the two Amarr ships so that's a pretty good time. I tend to lose ships when I go too fast, but you have to factor that into the economics of missions..
I have a fast salvage strategy after the mission - two destroyers which can loot and salvage most missions in one trip. I'm finding it most time-efficient to hose out as much focused damage for the duration of the mission...
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Priestlever Lock
Taipan Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.04 11:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ferret
Energy Collision Accelerator I Capacitor Control Circuit I Ancillary Current Router I
This could make all the difference, but I can't seem to get EFT to up the volley/DPS with energy weapon rigs.. Is this a known issue with EFT?
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McFly
C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.04 12:24:00 -
[14]
I solo missions often in my PVE nightmare. As far as support ship I would go with a ship with the capability to field lots of drones, and here's why... My alt in an ishtar can pump out dps if needed through 5 heavies or 5 sentries (usually heavies for missions) can augment my main pilot (be it nightmare, paladin, nighthawk, or whatever you fly (should be able to perma L4s anyway)) with 5x Heavy Logistic Drones. Carries 5 meds and 5 lights as well with HAC lvl 4. All at the same time running things like say projected ECCM, Tracking Links, Target Painters...
However I quickly realized my alt makes me more isk by semi-afk domi like Ishtaring through his own Level 4 missions.
Here's a good alt ship for mission running tho, the exequeror... yah mining cruiser I know... but bear with me, 2x tractor, 2x salvager, 1x 10MN AB II, 4x cargo expander, I think my alt's has well over 1000 cargohold in his. you have a couple mids open for tracking link/projected ECCM.
But for the most part I'd say your best bet is to take two identical ships u used the abaddon for example. Put RR modules on both of them, 5x Rep Bots in the drone bay + 5x light/medium combat drones, then you have a pretty good pair for tanking and twice the dps, since u are already running the dual damage dealer design anyway.
I find that missioning with an alt becomes a lot more work so I just went back to soloing and then salvaging later on.
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Dahlia Houghton
The Tetragrammaton Council
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Posted - 2009.01.04 18:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: McFly All at the same time running things like say projected ECCM
For PvE?
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.01.05 07:10:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Priestlever Lock Currently doing L4 missions in Amarr space with the following pair of ships:
In Minmatar/Gallente space, I'm happily cruising along with a Drake and Dominix pair. So far I've lost one Dominix a month or so ago due to stupidly killing a trigger ship which spawned 8 scramming/webbing frigates (I'd have been fine if it was only 6), and lost a Drake to the Blood Raiders in "Cargo Delivery" when I foolishly let my drones out on aggressive (again, triggering the arrival of stuff I couldn't handle).
The Dominix is fitted for DPS - she flies away from the pack to sniping range and focuses on battleships while the drake takes out frigates and upwards.
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Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.01.05 07:45:00 -
[17]
Dualaccounting good extravaganza times should be approx 30 .. 35 min for combat phase. Granted Amarr ships are not the best ones for angel version so perhaps approx 45 min or so might be better target for AE in Amarr ships.
As far as ships themselves go I would go for 2 battleships with long term goal as 2 Marauders. Abbadon + pulse Apoc should work fine I think, but I'm sure you have more experience with turret ships to pick the best solution for your missionrunning style. If I would have to pick 2 ship pair to run Amarr missions I would perhaps go with 2 nightmares and use raven pair for those missions where lasers have significant disadvantage (ie against angels).
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Tiirae
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2009.01.05 12:05:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Tiirae on 05/01/2009 12:11:59
Originally by: Priestlever Lock
I'm happy with 60 mins for Angels Extravaganza. It isn't an ideal match for damage with the two Amarr ships so that's a pretty good time. I tend to lose ships when I go too fast, but you have to factor that into the economics of missions..
Well, you posted a thread asking if your setup is OK and if someone could improve on it. Why would you bother if you are already happy with your performance? You performance *could* be about 80% faster, so lets see if we can get that far?
First, as mentioned earlier, you are shooting at the wrong ships. Lasers are terrible for guristas and angels. A pith obliterator, for example, has 41% resists against kinetic damage, and 71% resists against EM damage. This means you are basically doing about 40% less damage than someone using kinetic weapons.
First, I can do angels extravaganza in about 40 minutes (just the combat part) in a DRAKE.
Admittedly it's a seriously pimped drake but still... you take 50% longer using TWO ships.
Frankly, this is a disaster. Given that you created this thread, it's madness to NOT fix this issue. Either start running missions for Amarr Navy agents, or change your damage type. Your current setup is so bad, you could unfit all the lasers and fit hybrids instead, and still do much more damage even with no bonuses and terrible skills.
I don't want to sound like I'm smacking or anything, don't take this the wrong way. But any other improvement at all is utterly pointless while you are deliberately using the worst type of weapon against these NPCs.
You simply have to bite the bullet and change faction. You may be dreading the grind but it's not that bad. COSMOS missions give huge faction increases and are all easy 1,2 or 3 part missions. Check out the various COSMOS guides that are hanging around, they are not hard at all.
Second, there are these things called 'datacenters' that they introduced with FW so people could get faction standings quickly. You can basically buy standings. Use these to top up after you finish COSMOS.
You may have to grind a few L1 missions to get enough standings to do the COSMOS or use the datacenters. But it won't take long. I reckon you could get into L4 agents with Amarr Navy in 2 days if you put some effort into it.
You will not regret it and doing nothing means you are totally wasting about 25% of the time you are logged on. My skin crawls just thinking about doing GE with lasers :P
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Par'Gellen
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.05 15:20:00 -
[19]
Personally I like the Dominix/Armageddon (or Abaddon or Paladin or Nightmare) combo.
The Dominix can tank rediculous god-like amounts of damage with two large armor reps running permanently and still gets sweet DPS from it's drones. (For example: Just for giggles I've entered The Blockade (Sansha) and killed only the trigger ships just to see if I could tank the entire thing. It wasn't a problem. However, I don't think I would try this on the Angels version lol!)
The Armageddon or Abaddon or Paladin or Nightmare can all be pure DPS'd out the wazoo and still get decent drone bandwidth.
Recommended approach: Warp in the Domi and get full agro. Launch drones and let them get to killin'. Warp in the DPS ship and launch it's drones and set them to guard the tanker. Open fire on the baddies with the DPS ship.
Pretty straight forward ---
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Priestlever Lock
Taipan Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.06 10:17:00 -
[20]
Yeah, thanks all for good ideas.
If I was starting from scratch I'd probably go 2 CNRs. But given how deep I am in Amarr, I'm exploring how much more efficiency I can get for little training. Dual Paladins (Marauders) seem to be my best outcome from a long training investment.
The Tanka-baddon is solid for L4s with the single repper, but it can (practically) perma-run dual-reppers if I get nervous. Getting Gallente/hybrid skills for the Domi from where I am now probably won't pay, even with the ogres.
To boost the damage I'm getting from the Harby pilot, I've run some numbers through EFT. The right answer is probably the Maxa-geddon with pulses and ogres for 916 dps (not Apoc-821, not Abaddon-882). The Geddon also has room for damage rigs as it is cap-stable without CCCs.
The AFK Ishtar is a good idea for getting more pay from the second account, but doesn't suit me personally as I need shorter play sessions.
I can grind Amarr Navy L4s, but you still draw AE. Anyway I wasn't particularly clear, but I was just using that mission as a worst-case time for my Amarr ships. Maybe I should skip Gurista missions, but I think with 1630 DPS from the Abaddon and Armageddon I can get much closer to your target time.
Thanks again team.
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Ralitge boyter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.06 15:58:00 -
[21]
I would switch the setup, make the BC tank and the BS deal damage. The BS does far more damage then the BC can ever do a good BC will do about 500 to 600 dps without to much issues, where a BS can do upwards of 1000 dps.
Also a good BC pilot should be able to tank most level 4's without to much trouble, with the BS killing the BS's first the incomming damage for the BC will drop so fast that it should not have any trouble tanking any of the level 4 missions.
Other then that it sounds like a good setup. ------------------------------------------- Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me. |
Tchelor
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Posted - 2009.01.07 04:50:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Tchelor on 07/01/2009 04:52:42
Originally by: Priestlever Lock Getting Gallente/hybrid skills for the Domi from where I am now probably won't pay, even with the ogres.
Cross training to a Domi really doesn't need skill with hybrids, as long as the drone skills are sound. After drone range modules, there' really only 3-4 turret slots to begin with, and using two accounts they might be better filled with remote rep.
Still though, using the bc for support is just fine; I bring one with my domi; set up for salvage/tracking/sensorboosting
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