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Amarr AFs... am I missing something?

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Kessiaan Minmatar Army of One	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:39:00 - [1] I'm planning on training up Amarr frigs at some point, because I want to fly a Sentinel and a Crusader. I was looking at their AFs though and I must say I'm less than impressed. The Vengeance looks like it tanks very well, quite possibly the best tanked AF. But it's bonused rocket launchers don't even do the damage of unbonused 150mm Light AC IIs, which seems totally wrong. Fit with 200mm ACs instead it can push out about 100 DPS, and can run a 120 DPS tank forever, which makes it great at ganking T1 frigs, which any AF can do already. The Retribution seems much better gank-wise - four bonused lasers and plenty of lows for heatsinks and tank, but with only a single mid (lol) it won't be tackling anything - strictly a gang ship. So, do Amarr AFs just suck that much? Or am I missing something?
Khwalik Ghetto Kings	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:43:00 - [2] No you aren't missing much they pretty much suck. Least for solo work.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:45:00 - [3] They do need adjusting, although AF pilots in general are a breed apart imho.
Lisento Slaven Amarr The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2009.01.05 14:46:00 - [4] The retribution is by far my favorite assault frigate in EVE, next to the Wolf. I have absolutely no fear engaging any interceptor in my retribution. You can typically blow them up before they even warp out. Think of the Retribution as the DPS boat for a roaming AF/Inty gang. It's also anti-interceptor, which is one of the problem ships you'll run into. Retribution will also make rapier's and huginn's very upset when they try to engage your t2 frig gang, considering a retribution can hit out to what...24km with a good fit? --- Put in space whales!
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:15:00 - [5] The Vengeance is great for bait if you can keep it moving, but the Retri is a little underestimated. Solo - you want to choose your fights, but in a gang you're more than welcome, being the highest dps AF available, with range bonuses - it's rather rewarding. The ship goes hand-in-hand with the sentinel.
Ralarina Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:16:00 - [6] Originally by: Kessiaan So, do Amarr AFs just suck that much? Or am I missing something? ur missing a mid slot haha --
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:24:00 - [7] Originally by: Ralarina Originally by: Kessiaan So, do Amarr AFs just suck that much? Or am I missing something? ur missing a mid slot haha lol good call
Denuo Secus	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:32:00 - [8] I toyed a bit with a blaster Vengeance in EFT. I have no real game experiences yet (apart from some duelling with corp mates) but it looks good on paper. Nice tank and decent damage - more than laser or auto cannons. Extreme short range is no problem for this ship class and green fits nice to black ^^
Davina Braben	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Denuo Secus I toyed a bit with a blaster Vengeance in EFT. I have no real game experiences yet (apart from some duelling with corp mates) but it looks good on paper. Nice tank and decent damage - more than laser or auto cannons. Extreme short range is no problem for this ship class and green fits nice to black ^^ But why though, when you have the Enyo?
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:49:00 - [10] I think the Amarr AFs are actually pretty good, but they are somewhat specialized. Vengeance can be fitted with an absurdly good tank (for a frigate), and makes a nice heavy tackler nowadays. DPS is crap, but who cares -- the rockets are ok for swatting down drones, in any case. Retri sucks solo, but shines in a frigate gang. With beams it has impressive gun range for a frigate, and with pulses the dps and tracking both rock. Neither is good for a solo role. That's just the way it is.

Denuo Secus	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:04:00 - [11] Originally by: Davina Braben Originally by: Denuo Secus I toyed a bit with a blaster Vengeance in EFT. I have no real game experiences yet (apart from some duelling with corp mates) but it looks good on paper. Nice tank and decent damage - more than laser or auto cannons. Extreme short range is no problem for this ship class and green fits nice to black ^^ But why though, when you have the Enyo? Enyo has only 2 meds and not such a tank. I see the blaster Vengeance as heavy tackler with some damage as bonus. Could be nice in very small gangs.
ry ry	Posted - 2009.01.05 16:12:00 - [12] Edited by: ry ry on 05/01/2009 16:12:44 you can rat like a mother***er in a retribution. you also get the choice between not being slow as a cat's arse and having a point, which only adds to the excitement. fly it like a destroyer to get the most out of it. most small ships seem to buffer tank these days too, so the vengeance actually being able to tank would be a bonus were it not slow as a cat's arse. personally i love* the vengeance, it looks really cool.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2009.01.05 18:01:00 - [13] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Vengeance can be fitted with an absurdly good tank (for a frigate), and makes a nice heavy tackler nowadays. DPS is crap, but who cares -- the rockets are ok for swatting down drones, in any case. I like using it this way - though I just skip the rockets and fit three Gatling Pulse II instead. I get the same paper DPS despite having fairly good missile skills (which one delivers more actual DPS will vary depending on the context, but in general I prefer the "feel" of turrets anyway), and more importantly it leaves a high-slot open for a small NOS, which is an excellent addition to any AB + scram close-orbit AF.
Xanos Blackpaw Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.01.05 19:29:00 - [14] well...i would use a retri in a frig gang... retri, frig gang: 4 med beam lasers 1 T2 ab 1 T2 small rep 1 T2 AR plating/or faction or you will need a small +cpu inplant) 2 heatsinks T2 1 CPR T2 2 ccc rigs this hit with with either 116 dps at 50km or 200 at 16 km... Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi".
Vixisti The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.05 21:13:00 - [15] Edited by: Vixisti on 05/01/2009 21:14:06 Sad Retri'
meatomatic	Posted - 2009.01.06 02:45:00 - [16] Originally by: Lisento Slaven The retribution is by far my favorite assault frigate in EVE, next to the Wolf. I have absolutely no fear engaging any interceptor in my retribution. You can typically blow them up before they even warp out. Think of the Retribution as the DPS boat for a roaming AF/Inty gang. It's also anti-interceptor, which is one of the problem ships you'll run into. Retribution will also make rapier's and huginn's very upset when they try to engage your t2 frig gang, considering a retribution can hit out to what...24km with a good fit? my Ret hits you for 100 per gunat about 50km, 90 km if i drop tank i like the range of t2 beams
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.01.06 03:55:00 - [17] vengeance won't dps the crap out of no one, but it will outlast them, especially the close-range orbit AB version. Example: I was killing a prophecy with my vengeance despite being webbed (he still couldn't hit me) until his hyperion friend came. So they can be useful, it's only limited, like everything else in EVE.
Misaniovent Blood Phage Syndicate R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.01.06 04:09:00 - [18] Unless your opponent has neuts (good ones tend to), a perma-tanked Vengeance can be almost impossible to kill. Meanwhile, if you use cap booster 800s, you can make a dual rep setup with rigs tank 200+ dps. If you're feeling wealthy, add faction reps. And it can still do relatively decent damage. The Retribution has an amazing tank, too, but you should probably just fit it for gank. It's a great ship. I like to think of the Amarr AF as partners. Get a friend with one, and use the other. Perfect.
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.01.06 04:10:00 - [19] Originally by: Misaniovent Meanwhile, if you use cap booster 800s 200's
6Bagheera9 Slacker Industries	Posted - 2009.01.06 07:21:00 - [20] The Retribution is fine, interceptors are better tacklers anyway so why not let them bring the point and focus on the whole melting people's faces dealy. I've yet to actually fly a Vengeance. But judging from what I can cook up in EFT it has by far the best T2 tank of any frigate, adequate mid slots, and **** poor dps. I blame part of the dps suckiness on rockets in general, but even if they were a more respectable weapon I don't think that a 25% damage bonus is going to give any more than 100 dps.

Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.01.06 07:33:00 - [21] Originally by: 6Bagheera9 The Retribution is fine, interceptors are better tacklers anyway so why not let them bring the point and focus on the whole melting people's faces dealy. Because of this. If you aren't going to tackle with your frigate, bring a ship that doesn't suck. Quote: I've yet to actually fly a Vengeance. But judging from what I can cook up in EFT it has by far the best T2 tank of any frigate, adequate mid slots, and **** poor dps. I blame part of the dps suckiness on rockets in general, but even if they were a more respectable weapon I don't think that a 25% damage bonus is going to give any more than 100 dps. Best tank of any T2 frigate until it gets hit with a neut, and then it just dies uselessly (if it can even crawl into range to be useful in the first place). Try flying it and you'll petition CCP to get your SP in Amarr Frigate V back. -----------
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.01.06 07:59:00 - [22] Edited by: Terianna Eri on 06/01/2009 07:58:55 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: 6Bagheera9 The Retribution is fine, interceptors are better tacklers anyway so why not let them bring the point and focus on the whole melting people's faces dealy. Because of this. If you aren't going to tackle with your frigate, bring a ship that doesn't suck. This is pretty true, actually. I've brought zealots along with frigate gangs. It's only 500 m/s slower, aligns almost as quickly (especially if you throw a nanofiber onto it), locks faster (with SB), can fit a point, has more range, and of course hits harder. If you knew you were going to be fighting almost entirely frigates, though, I'd bring the retribution. It can actually track things at close range, which the zealot can't do. The retribution is nice for what it does, but there's not a lot of use for it where a zealot wouldn't do better. That said, I sometimes do fly my retribution as a miniature zealot - fit for range and damage, take out tacklers, put 200-odd DPS onto the primary, with 20km range and amazing tracking. It's like a destroyer that doesn't die as easily to cruiser fire. Quote: Quote: I've yet to actually fly a Vengeance. But judging from what I can cook up in EFT it has by far the best T2 tank of any frigate, adequate mid slots, and ** poor dps. I blame part of the dps suckiness on rockets in general, but even if they were a more respectable weapon I don't think that a 25% damage bonus is going to give any more than 100 dps. Best tank of any T2 frigate until it gets hit with a neut, and then it just dies uselessly (if it can even crawl into range to be useful in the first place). Try flying it and you'll petition CCP to get your SP in Amarr Frigate V back. Vengeance with a small cap booster (and maybe a nos) is actually surprisingly neut resistant, although the ship is still complete trash anyway __________________________________ Originally by:** Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
Cletus Graeme Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2009.01.06 08:24:00 - [23] Are medium pulse lasers a good idea on the Retribution? I ask because I can't think what other ship you would fit them on except for maybe a Coercer (which is possible but a tight squeeze). They have high fitting requirements for small sized pulses which rules out fitting them on most frigate sized amarr ships.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.01.06 09:23:00 - [24] Originally by: Cletus Graeme Are medium pulse lasers a good idea on the Retribution? I ask because I can't think what other ship you would fit them on except for maybe a Coercer (which is possible but a tight squeeze). They have high fitting requirements for small sized pulses which rules out fitting them on most frigate sized amarr ships. Nope, they won't fit. They'd be awesome if they did, but you just can't get them on there with a reasonable setup. -----------
Xanos Blackpaw Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.01.06 09:40:00 - [25] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Cletus Graeme Are medium pulse lasers a good idea on the Retribution? I ask because I can't think what other ship you would fit them on except for maybe a Coercer (which is possible but a tight squeeze). They have high fitting requirements for small sized pulses which rules out fitting them on most frigate sized amarr ships. Nope, they won't fit. They'd be awesome if they did, but you just can't get them on there with a reasonable setup. ...did you read my post? med pulses are easy to fit! if i can fit 4 med BEAMS an ab and a rep you can easily fit those pulses! Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi".
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.01.06 09:43:00 - [26] Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw ...did you read my post? med pulses are easy to fit! if i can fit 4 med BEAMS an ab and a rep you can easily fit those pulses! Did you read my post? Note the key words "reasonable setup". A setup with an AB is not a reasonable setup, and therefore it's irrelevant. -----------
Davina Braben	Posted - 2009.01.06 10:10:00 - [27] Edited by: Davina Braben on 06/01/2009 10:15:32 I had worked out a fit MPLIIs and an MWD. I don't know if it's "reasonable" though. [Retribution, New Setup 1] Tracking Enhancer II Thermic Plating II Heat Sink II Damage Control II Adaptive Nano Plating II 1MN MicroWarpdrive II Medium Pulse Laser II, Dark Blood Multifrequency S Medium Pulse Laser II, Dark Blood Multifrequency S Medium Pulse Laser II, Dark Blood Multifrequency S Medium Pulse Laser II, Dark Blood Multifrequency S [empty high slot] Energy Locus Coordinator I Energy Locus Coordinator I Seems very fragile though. Supposed to work with at least an intie providing firesupport. Maybe it'd be better with speed mods. Pure EFTwarrioring at this point. What is a good fit with DLPs then?
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.01.06 10:20:00 - [28] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 06/01/2009 10:20:56 Originally by: Davina Braben Edited by: Davina Braben on 06/01/2009 10:17:07 I had worked out a fit MPLIIs and an MWD. I don't know if it's "reasonable" though. It's not. Your setup requires both AWU V and Energy Weapon Rigging V (who actually trains that?), otherwise it doesn't fit. And if you have to add fitting mods, you end up with something inferior in every way to: [Retribution, New Setup 1] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II Adaptive Nano Plating II 1MN MicroWarpdrive II Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S //HEATSINK// Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Energy Locus Coordinator I Energy Locus Coordinator I -----------
Hairy Manballs	Posted - 2009.01.06 10:32:00 - [29] Ups. I didn't spot that. Cheers. I guess the DLPs track a bit better anyway.
Xanos Blackpaw Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.01.06 13:51:00 - [30] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw ...did you read my post? med pulses are easy to fit! if i can fit 4 med BEAMS an ab and a rep you can easily fit those pulses! Did you read my post? Note the key words "reasonable setup". A setup with an AB is not a reasonable setup, and therefore it's irrelevant. so? because you dont like using an AB dont mean it dont work. you need more speed to get in range...so...a ship with no tackling with 50km range need more speed why? Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi".



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