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Vhiskey
Caldari
Imperial Forces
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Posted - 2009.01.08 01:11:00 -
[1]
so i looked here but i¦m not satisfied with some info.
i need some advice of the experienced manufacturer what level of ME is enough for the following T1 bpos:
- cruise, heavy, light missile
- hybrid charge L, M, S
- launcher cruise, heavy, standard, assault
- cargohold optimization
- small tractor beam
- ccc
thx in advance
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MooKids
Caldari
Dark Echo Engineering
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Posted - 2009.01.08 01:45:00 -
[2]
Depends on how much time you have. Generally, it is ME20 for modules and munitions and ME10 for ships. After that, savings diminishes.
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CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity. |
Melissa Mahiru
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Posted - 2009.01.08 01:57:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Melissa Mahiru on 08/01/2009 02:04:57
Perfect ME levels
rockets 10
std /std fof sabretooth/seeker 30 -others 15
havoc 64 (eradicator Fof/Fulmination HAM )
scourge 150 (terror HAM )
thunderbolt 90 (stalker Fof /torrent HAM )
widowmaker 130 (hellhound Fof/hellfire HAM )
Hydra FOF 46
-------
Cruise -Torpedos Me50-100 (so much time for perfect ME level, not worth the time )
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Hybrids L= 100 /M=100 /s=50 or
Large/med/small
Antimatter 320/81/37
iridium 92/30/11
iron 45/30/5
Lead 83/75/22
plutonium 276 /95/30
thorium 188/81/12
Tungsten 94/41/7
Uranium 223/54/12
---
Lauchers 30-50
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cargohold optimisation 24
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STB 30-50
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CCC 15
Im not a manufacturer but a bpo researcher , some ME levels rounded for a simplicity.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=348689
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Loaby
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Posted - 2009.01.08 02:03:00 -
[4]
thx
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Vhiskey
Caldari
Imperial Forces
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Posted - 2009.01.08 02:04:00 -
[5]
damn, alt
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Callista Omenswarm
Astronautical Engineering
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Posted - 2009.01.08 05:21:00 -
[6]
in terms of manufacturing, ML5-10 is enough, at that point you're talking fractions of a percentage in terms of waste. If you aren't able to compete at that level then you really need to start looking elsewhere for other items to manufacture.
As a researcher I'll often research to ML30 or if it is around the ML100 mark to 'Perfect ML' as it makes prints seem that much more valuable even if you are saving virtually nothing in terms of production costs.
Biggest tip, as a manufacturer, get cozy with MLCalc. It'll be your new bestest friend.
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ArsenalOfCharm
Fifth Exiled Legion
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Posted - 2009.01.08 13:41:00 -
[7]
Edited by: ArsenalOfCharm on 08/01/2009 13:42:23
the link you provided is a great resource when it comes to ammo and mod bpos my belief is perfect me and pe is necessary since it generally takes only days to obtain it
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Dragoslav Thanos
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.08 14:02:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Dragoslav Thanos on 08/01/2009 14:03:36
Edited by: Dragoslav Thanos on 08/01/2009 14:03:15
but doesn't the ME number also depend upon the amount of items you are producing at a given time? Say you are producing T2 Antimatter reactors,which according to most sites says that the perfect ME=4. That's great except when you are running 1000 at a shot in which case the 'perfect' number jumps up to 161 or something (dont have the screen up in front of me).
Am I missing something or is 4 still the right number here?
EDIT: actually from the site linked above it doesn't so any change in ME from 1 to 1000 runs... damnit I know I 'thought' I saw that somewhere.
/emote wanders off to find coffee
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Young people all over the globe are joining up to save the future. Would you like to learn more? |
Rose Bonifacio
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Posted - 2009.01.08 14:13:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Dragoslav Thanos
Edited by: Dragoslav Thanos on 08/01/2009 14:03:36
Edited by: Dragoslav Thanos on 08/01/2009 14:03:15
but doesn't the ME number also depend upon the amount of items you are producing at a given time? Say you are producing T2 Antimatter reactors,which according to most sites says that the perfect ME=4. That's great except when you are running 1000 at a shot in which case the 'perfect' number jumps up to 161 or something (dont have the screen up in front of me).
Am I missing something or is 4 still the right number here?
EDIT: actually from the site linked above it doesn't so any change in ME from 1 to 1000 runs... damnit I know I 'thought' I saw that somewhere.
/emote wanders off to find coffee
Material amount per job was changed with Empyrean age, as far as i remember.
Before EA, formula was : round(material base cost*wastage factor*nb runs)
After EA, formula is : nb runs*round(material base cost*wastage factor)
So, as of now, the displayed material usage is always good either for a single job or multile one. This was changed mostly because with the rounding, making multiple job could ask for more material than making multiple single job batches. (think about a final 1.49 unit, you were asked 1 unit for a single job, 3 for 2, 5 for 3, etc)
Rose.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.01.08 17:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Rose Bonifacio
Material amount per job was changed with Empyrean age, as far as i remember.
Yeah one of those, it was always based on a single run, and it didn't matter how many you did.
Then they decided to change it without warning to round after multiplying by runs.
This of course created the situation where given that it always rounds down, single runs were often more efficient than multiple runs, which makes no sense. They looked at making it always round up instead, so that multiple runs would be more efficient, but that would break things like T2 building where you require '1' of the base product etc. In the end they simply returned it to the way it always was. Proof that the stupidest ideas are the ones they don't wave past the community for feedback first. |
nether void
Caldari
Shrapnel Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.08 18:09:00 -
[11]
Perfect ME is for people who don't understand this game. hehe
ME 25 on modules. ME 15 on ships. That's how I do it. My spreadsheet says anything more than that is a waste of money (time is money).
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Pwett
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2009.01.08 19:20:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Pwett on 08/01/2009 19:21:34
Edited by: Pwett on 08/01/2009 19:20:52
I have a simple rule of thumb
Pwett's "MAX" researching levels
(for things with TRUE max ME > 39 - rigs, for example, have MAX ME's typically around 20. For a quick generalization take most needed material / 5 to find MAX ME)
ME 1 - Capital ships
ME 9 - Ships, some t1 modules / deployables
ME 39 - Everything else.
_______________
Pwett
Founder
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Sunicro Starweaver
Transilience Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.08 19:33:00 -
[13]
Quote:
Perfect ME is for people who don't understand this game. hehe
That is a matter of opinion. Time is money, I agree with that, however Perfect ME is by no means a waste of time. Ever little bit helps. And what is a waste is to have a tower with labs and research slots not being used.
So my rule of thumb is...
If it not being used for manufacturing CURRENTLY, and there is a slot open, research a little at a time until perfect. Never leave a slot empty. With this method, the labs don't waste money by not being used and over time you will save absolutely as much as you can on EVERY BPO, well minus those that take years.
That is why I created my BP Inventory sheet and currently have 90% of all BP's I own (Almost 700 of the 807 T1 BP's in game) at Perfect ME(Minus ships), and quite a few at Perfect PE, and copies of almost every inventable BP.
The key to remember in deciding how far to do research is how do you wish to play, what is worth your time and effort. No ones opinion matter but your own. Those of us that do research can only offer advice on how we do it. |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.01.08 19:46:00 -
[14]
If your suffering though public labs you might as well take ME on ammo to 50. The research time is going to be small compared to the wait time. |
Lothris Andastar
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Posted - 2009.01.08 19:47:00 -
[15]
The perfect ME for any item is 42 |
Astarte Nosferatu
Minmatar
Ihatalo Heavy Industries
Ihatalo Cartel
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Posted - 2009.01.08 20:26:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
The perfect ME for any item is 42
Or 23 for that matter. But that's an entirely different discussion. |
nether void
Caldari
Shrapnel Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.08 20:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sunicro Starweaver
Stuff
Rent your slots instead. You make more than saving .1 ISK on minerals. To be more realistic, you'll make way more money than saving .001 waste. |
Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.08 22:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Callista Omenswarm
in terms of manufacturing, ML5-10 is enough
OMG someone is talking sense on ME, that's pretty unique!
(My rule of thumb is ME 9.) |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.01.09 02:48:00 -
[19]
It's all going to depend on the cost per hour of your lab time / slots vs the amount of isk you save per run vs the amount you build vs the amount of time that BP is out of production researching. Also sometimes higher ME BPCs go for more or sell easier even though they are not going to save the buyer much more at all.
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Chaos Maid
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Posted - 2009.01.09 03:06:00 -
[20]
If you are using the bpo's to make stuff, ME 10 is good enough. it lowers waste to less than 1%. if you want to make bpc's to sell then 20-30 is a must b/c there are already plenty of bpc's at that ME so u need to compete. |
Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2009.01.09 08:16:00 -
[21]
Originally by: nether void
Perfect ME is for people who don't understand this game. hehe
ME 25 on modules. ME 15 on ships. That's how I do it. My spreadsheet says anything more than that is a waste of money (time is money).
That's my thinking too, although I have yet to get started on production or research.
But what about rigs? Same ME target as for modules? And ammo?
--
Salpad |
Sunicro Starweaver
Transilience Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.09 14:36:00 -
[22]
Quote:
But what about rigs?
Highest Perfect ME on rigs is 30, average is 15. You can perfect ME the entire Rig Set so quickly, no reason not to take them to perfect. |
Callista Omenswarm
Astronautical Engineering
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Posted - 2009.01.09 14:45:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sunicro Starweaver
You can perfect ME the entire Rig Set so quickly, no reason not to take them to perfect.
Which is why 'perfect' is indeed relevant, saying that a Frequency Crystal or Survey probe set has ME 1-3 have most people looking elsewhere for prints that were actually researched properly.
Tell them they are 'perfect' and you're more likely to secure the sale.
A vast number of our customers struggle with the idea that some prints need very little research and I think that comes from the their notion that all research is equal, not that the value of each level of ME research is tied directly to the quantity of materials used in production.
Not that they need to mind, that's what we get paid for, right?
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Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys
Zzz
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Posted - 2009.01.10 11:24:00 -
[24]
Anyone wanting to get ME research done on their BPOs while avoiding queues in NPC stations or the cost and trouble of setting up their own POS should consider joining the ZZZ alliance, where POS facilities are provided to all alliance members for modest fees.
Alternatively, I am happy to feed your BPOs in to my own POSes and carry out the ME research for you with max-skilled characters and fast labs to get those BPOs up to the desired ME in the fastest time possible.
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