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Jiumlk Edz	Posted - 2009.01.09 06:34:00 - [1] Is it possible for a Raven to defeat an Abaddon? I had a skirmish today in my Raven vs an Abaddon. I had my EM shield resist at 80% and he was doing EM dmg. He still out damaged me. We were both roughly the same age (Started mid 2007.) I was using cruise missiles though not torpedoes. I ended up escaping luckily but was just wondering what exactly I could be done to do better? Or is the Abaddon just better at a 1v1?
Solid Prefekt Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.01.09 06:35:00 - [2] use T2 torps
Ashani Tazuki Gallente VisionEight	Posted - 2009.01.09 06:38:00 - [3] if your setting up purely against the abaddon to get ur mate back, u need to play on his weakness more. Cap. so simply dropping 1 or 2 launchers for 2x large neuts is going to ruin his parade. hes going to have a hard time running an armour tank + all those lasers with that situation.
Shyon Rhen	Posted - 2009.01.09 07:43:00 - [4] Edited by: Shyon Rhen on 09/01/2009 07:44:37 general copypasta of what's already been said ok. as an abaddon pilot. ravens cannot 1v1 kill an abaddon UNLESS you kill the thing all abaddon pilots need. cap. its the only amarr BS to feature a direct damage bonus (instead of ROF) and also the only one to not recieve a capacitor reduction bonus. meaning freakish amounts of energy going into those 8 guns, and quite possibly a repper if he's fitted for long engagements instead of pure gank/buffer fit 6 launchers (it really doesnt matter cruise/torp and have some of each damage type (paradise to kill his shield, then figure out what his armor is weakest to and use that) and then 2 heavy neuts. blast the neuts until he caps out. then pulse one of them to keep him at low/no capacitor... if more than 4 of his guns are firing, he has too much cap. neut him till he stops repping... ??? profit!
Trader20	Posted - 2009.01.09 08:00:00 - [5] When your 100% sure what your fighting then try to fit hardeners for the damage the other ship deals. So when fighting an abaddon fit em and therm hardeners and use bane torps because abaddons are armor tankers. Also good luck, abaddons is the only bs that make me say "oh sht" when its not on my side.
Stuart Price Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.01.09 08:26:00 - [6] Yep, cap him out. You still need to survive long enough to actually DO this though, since any sane abaddon pilot will have a crapton of cap 800's (I carry a med can packed with 'em and another 6 in the hold as well as the five loaded in the booster), so going for a massive buffer with plenty of em and thermal resist (multifreq does lots of thermal damage as well you see). You might have to consider that if he also pack a heavy neut (I know I do) it's still going to be a tough fight. ECM drones will also help if he doesn't have ECCM fitted.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.01.09 08:30:00 - [7] Originally by: Jiumlk Edz He still out damaged me. We were both roughly the same age (Started mid 2007.) I was using cruise missiles though not torpedoes. what exactly I could be done to do better? 1. Use Torps and a TP 2. Get "under" his guns so he no longer deals any noticeable damage (while you still deal the same, or maybe more if you can web him too)
Misina Arlath Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.09 10:42:00 - [8] 1) Kill his Cap 2) Increase your Thermal resists as well, lasers do more than just EM. 3) Fly under guns, though could be hard if he uses pulses since they have very good tracking. 4) Fly outside his optimal ranges (could be hard too since lasers have good falloff, even on pulses). The problem with abaddon is the armor resist bonuses which gives it an awesome tank. The damage bonus makes it hard hitting, but as everyone has said, the huge weakness on the Abaddon is the cap. Then again - most Amarr pilots have max or near maxed Cap skills, and fully understand the usefulness of Cap boosters, Rechargers and Power Relays. -------------------------------------------------- "Every complex problem has a solution which is easy, neat and wrong!"
Gregoriuses Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2009.01.09 11:20:00 - [9] Tier 1 VS Tier3 If is noob pilot in Abaddon, than yea, otherwise...no. Ps: also raven use cap, so have in mind you can be neutraled also
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.01.09 11:51:00 - [10] Edited by: Gypsio III on 09/01/2009 11:51:31 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Jiumlk Edz He still out damaged me. We were both roughly the same age (Started mid 2007.) I was using cruise missiles though not torpedoes. what exactly I could be done to do better? 1. Use Torps and a TP 2. Get "under" his guns so he no longer deals any noticeable damage (while you still deal the same, or maybe more if you can web him too) You don't need a painter, check the sig radius and speed of an Abaddon. Raven is tier 2, not tier 1. Don't use T2 torps unless you're absolutely sure that you know what you're doing. Raven vs. an Abaddon is tricky. However, the predictability of the Abaddon offer some interesting options for an arranged 1v1, as this seems to be. For example, you can go for gank with hardened shield. A plated Abaddon is pretty slow and with the neuts, you may not need a propulsion mod or web for an 1v1. [Raven, Abaddon] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I Warp Disruptor II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Core Defence Field Extender I Valkyrie II x5 Alternatively, lol armour tank and massive tracking disruption could be interesting: [Raven, lolarmour] Damage Control II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Medium Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 100MN Afterburner II Warp Disruptor II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I You don't have much buffer or repping power, but three tracking disruptors and laser-hardened armour should hopefully mean that you don't need much. The tracking guide seems to say that below 5 km you're safe with tracking disruption scripts. Or use optimal range disruption scripts and stay beyond 13 km. Hmm a web would be useful, this all relies on you dictating range. Maybe the AB would be enough... not sure...
EspionageX Arbitrary Freedom	Posted - 2009.01.09 11:51:00 - [11] Originally by: Gregoriuses Tier 1 VS Tier3 If is noob pilot in Abaddon, than yea, otherwise...no. Ps: also raven use cap, so have in mind you can be neutraled also Raven is a Tier 2 ship <_< Anyways, OP your first mistake was using cruise for PVP - need at the very least faction torps Also, when did the OP ever say the baddon was an active tank?
AZN Steve	Posted - 2009.01.09 13:29:00 - [12] I think most abaddons out there are buffer tanked while still having a cap booster so neuting wont shut off his guns . best way to beat an abaddon is imo ewar . jam or td him
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.01.09 13:48:00 - [13] Edited by: Sokratesz on 09/01/2009 13:50:48 Abaddon for a 1v1 will have pulses, 99%. Pulse vulnerability is range - raven has loads of mids so presto, tracking disruptors. [Raven, Abaddon killer] Reactor Control Unit II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II 100MN Afterburner II Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I, Optimal Range Disruption Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I, Optimal Range Disruption Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I, Optimal Range Disruption Stasis Webifier II Invulnerability Field II Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Tracking Diagnostic Subroutines I Tracking Diagnostic Subroutines I [empty rig slot] Provided he is using AN multifrequency, his range is 15+10. Put the three tracking disruptors on him and he's down to 2.6 + 1.8. Even if he has scorch ready, he will not hit past 8km. Web him and start moving away in a straight line - if he has a MWD he will be out of cap very soon if he has an AB he will not be able to keep up and as soon as you get 3km away his damage will start to plummet. I am fairly certain you can not out-buffer out-gank him, and neuting takes too much time, so I would put my money on one of these. If, for whatever reason, he has beams or tachs, switch to tracking scripts and orbit him. Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
SevenOf 9	Posted - 2009.01.10 02:00:00 - [14] hmm ... most BS' have quite similar max speed, at most 10 or 20 m/s w/o AB... and frankly, tracking a bs class ship at 10 or 15km, not hard ...
Aten Hau	Posted - 2009.01.10 03:00:00 - [15] Have a friend help basically TD or ECM in a frig/cruiser fitted with an AB.
Petyr Baelich Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.01.10 03:02:00 - [16] Originally by: SevenOf 9 hmm ... most BS' have quite similar max speed, at most 10 or 20 m/s w/o AB... and frankly, tracking a bs class ship at 10 or 15km, not hard ... Beams or Tachs on an abaddon fit for pvp would be on the extreme side of unlikely. Requires fitting mods and the tradeoff is tank and damage for range. Unless it's a sniper fleet-fit, then that's no tradeoff at all. He will fit MP and be vulnerable to the tactics outlined above, (in your theoretical 1v1).
Amma Kudalkar Amarr The Freelanders	Posted - 2009.01.10 09:11:00 - [17] Most Solo PvP Abba's sport a Buffer Tank with an alt cloaked at a safe spot with Remote repairers. With proper fits the Abba has a buffer tank which is quite unbeatable. Also he would be fitted with 2 Heavy Neuts to ward off any CS/HAC or Ships below their size. Also it would have a huge pile of Cap Boosters charges in cargo because of which he would not mind getting Neuted. With 6 lasers firing on you and 2 Neuts draining your Cap, I find it difficult that you in a Raven can do much against such a monster. The best bet would be to get out of Disruptor range and warp out since a buffer tanked abba would be quite slow. If he has AB on him, just think that it was your unlucky day and eject out once you reach 15% structure to save your pod.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2009.01.10 10:10:00 - [18] Originally by: SevenOf 9 most BS' have quite similar max speed, at most 10 or 20 m/s w/o AB... Not really - it's more like 120m/s, give or take. Even if you're talking about speed while webbed, 10m/s would mean an unwebbed speed of 20-25m/s depending on the quality of the web, which is just unrealistic. These days, figure 40-50m/s for a single-webbed battleship. Quote: and frankly, tracking a bs class ship at 10 or 15km, not hard ... Right, but I think you've missed all the important points when Sok said to orbit. Firstly we're assuming that he's using beams instead of pulses for some reason, which have notably worse tracking. Secondly, you wouldn't orbit at 10-15km, but ideally get in really close and orbit at 1km, which multiplies by a factor of around 10 the difficulty to track you. Thirdly (and possibly most importantly), the Abaddon is triple tracking-disrupted. So while in general, sure, an Abaddon with pulses can track a battleship at 15km - that's not what we're talking about here.
velmistr Ecco Caldari InNova Tech Inc Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.01.10 12:09:00 - [19] Originally by: Gregoriuses Edited by: Gregoriuses on 09/01/2009 11:58:42 Tier 2 VS Tier3 If is noob pilot in Abaddon, than yea, otherwise...no. Ps: also raven use cap, so have in mind you can be neutraled also Tier has nothing to do with the power of ship. There is no tier2 or tier 3 BS that can kill caldari tier1 as scorpion can always leave the field. Also i don't think tier3 abaddon can easily take down tier 1 dominix. The only thing that really counts is thing that lies between chair and keyboard. OP: I think raven with tracking disruptors might work but I'm afraid you don't have high enough skills to be effective, so i would vote for cruise/torp raven with two heavy neutralizers supported by heavy capacitor booster with 800s and don't forget for vespas (ECM version of course).
Soporo Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.10 12:15:00 - [20] Scorp with racials and a mix of med and Heavy Neuts.
Stuart Price Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.01.10 15:29:00 - [21] Some people still wonder why I fit 2 ECCM's to my Abaddon. Most 'baddon pilots don't though, although for a 1v1, TD's and an AB/MWD to keep range will be more consistent. Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate'
Bootleg Greg	Posted - 2009.01.11 00:35:00 - [22] EFT AWAYYY!!! 6x T2 Siege Launchers 1x XL CL-5 1x T2 Shield Amplifier 1x T2 Active EM 2x T2 Invulnerability 1x T2 Heavy Injector 3x T2 BCU 1x T2 DCU 1x T2 CPU 4x Medium TP Drones 1x Heavy TP Drone 3x Reduce Shield Boost Activation Rigs Resistance EM: 75.9%Therm:63.8% Kin: 72.8% Exp:77.4% DPS: 1056 Tanks: 579 Effective HP: 69k Haven't flown one in a while, am I doing it right? I think this can kill an Abaddon.
chrisss0r	Posted - 2009.01.11 00:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Gregoriuses Edited by: Gregoriuses on 09/01/2009 11:58:42 Tier 2 VS Tier3 If tier is so important i'm sure u won't mind meeting my typhoon :)
Ahmadiyya	Posted - 2009.01.11 02:05:00 - [24] heavy cap booster > neuts
Trader20	Posted - 2009.01.11 02:31:00 - [25] Originally by: Gregoriuses Edited by: Gregoriuses on 09/01/2009 11:58:42 Tier 2 VS Tier3 If is noob pilot in Abaddon, than yea, otherwise...no. Ps: also raven use cap, so have in mind you can be neutraled also Ok how about a Rohk vs Abaddon, Rohk would get owned and you would probably be better of with a raven.
Jiumlk Edz	Posted - 2009.01.11 09:14:00 - [26] I appreciate all the feedback. However it still doesn't seem that there is a general consensus. The solutions(?) -Neuting/Nosing the cap (no energy = no guns/armor rep) but cap boosters can counter neuting/nosing as a whole and most abaddons buffer tank anyway. Not sure if this is the solution. -Use the torpedoes. Sure, torps are good for Battleship vs Battleship, but many people don't fight 100% battleships. Sure, if I knew I was going to go up against a battleship I'd fit torps. But if it were just a regular roam alone I'd probably fit CM's again. I'd rather die to an Abaddon than not be able to hit a damn tech 1 cruiser as he calls his friends. -EM Warfare? On a Raven? Maybe you could fit 1 ECM on there.... but with the Raven having no bonuses it may be too inefficient and unreliable. I guess the real for sure way is to just bring friends :) ....but it just seems the Abaddon is just a beast of a ship.
Miss KillSome Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.11 10:10:00 - [27] 1. u said u are going against a single abaddon, not roaming.. 2. u missed the point about orbiting him very close 3. cruises are for missions.. fit torps with some TP drones.. ----- TCODA corporation is recruiting! TCODA is awesome!
Lymitz	Posted - 2009.01.11 10:11:00 - [28] Short answer ,no
Sally Fourth	Posted - 2009.01.11 13:54:00 - [29] Out of curiosity to the OP, Why not use a Scorp to kill him? 3 Neuts, 3 cruise launchers. Mids Sensor Booster, 2 pt scram, Web, cap injector, 4 Amarr t2 jammers, Lows Armor EM hardener, Armor Thermal Hardener, 1600mm Plate, Armor explosive hardener (for drones) Bunch of Hammerhead or Valkyrie drones, and warrior t2 to kill off his. If he is buffer tanked, It will take you a month of sundays to kill him, But you will. If he is active tanked, You will neut him out and kill him. Use your drones to clear his drones, and keep him locked up. I honestly think this would have a better chance than a raven 1v1 against a don. Otherwise, everyone has posted Really good ways for a raven to beat a Abaddon. Maybe throw in some tracking disruptors on your raven and armor tank it some how as well would be another viable option.
Galliana Foresta Fleeting Moments of Insanity	Posted - 2009.01.11 17:02:00 - [30] Only way a Raven is going to beat a similarly skilled Abaddon is to stop him hitting you imotbh. ECM or TDs basically. Cap warfare is largely pointless in this case as a well fit Abaddon is going to have far, far more EHP than you and not be active tanking at all. Fit some range scripted TDs, stay away from him and you're good to go.

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