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Heat issues on new Macbook Pro models

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CCP Whisper	Posted - 2009.01.09 10:47:00 - [1] There appears to be an issue with SMC firmware in the new model Macbook Pro's which prevents the cooling fan speed from being increased due to the CPU heating up under load. Discussions on this can be found here and here. If you are playing EVE on a new model Macbook Pro please keep an eye on your CPU temperature. Depending on what you are doing the temperature of your CPU can rapidly go above 94 degrees Celcius which is well outside the tolerances of the Intel chips. I was running three clients in windowed mode and nearly reached 100C in less than ten minutes so this can happen really quickly. Resetting the SMC does result in the issue being resolved, however if you put your Macbook Pro to sleep, either through the system menu or by closing the screen, the issue will reappear and you will have to reset the SMC again. Detailed instructions on how to reset the SMC can be found on this Apple support page (New Macbook Pro users should follow the instructions for the Macbook Air). Also if someone has found a way to get smcFanControl working on a new Macbook Pro I'd appreciate some advice, as everytime I try to run it I get the message that my machine is not supported.

Yastin Mallen Pleasure and Pain OWN Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.10 14:53:00 - [2] Does FanControl (not smcFanControl) work for you? -Y
Creep Behind	Posted - 2009.01.11 22:31:00 - [3] Hello sir, I have a new mbp for 1 week now and when i installed eve it didnt went true 60C Atm iam allways running smcfancontrol this way i set speed up to 4000 when running on max mode. If i run it on battery saving i just use 3000 speed and it all keeps real cool will not go higher then 56 around that number.. Cheers
Sazuka Kirr Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2009.01.13 18:59:00 - [4] Originally by: Yastin Mallen Does FanControl (not smcFanControl) work for you? Nope :(
nachteule	Posted - 2009.01.23 03:58:00 - [5] Edited by: nachteule on 23/01/2009 03:58:22 http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/23049 that is the updated version of SMC fan control. works on the new '08 macs.
Adira Lotz	Posted - 2009.01.28 11:06:00 - [6] I was going to buy a new Mac book Pro (15ö) and then read this. I was planning on running EVE under XP via Bootcamp at least until the native Mac client is a lot better. I have no problem using one of the programs suggested as a temporary fix but: Can you tell me if this problem manifests itself in that situation (EVE using Bootcamp)? If so how would I tell if the temperatures were getting too high and how would I stop this occurring? This would be my first Apple so I am not very knowledgeable about how Bootcamp would impact this situation. Also would running the Premium client under XP work well enough to take part in large fleet fights? Thanks
Maula Jat	Posted - 2009.01.29 13:38:00 - [7] I use a 15" MacBook Pro to run eve both in OS X as well as Windows XP+Boot Camp. A summary of my subjective experience: The underside of the notebook gets uncomfortably hot regardless of the OS. Fans tend to run faster under Windows and the battery continues to charge and function properly. In OS X the fans are quieter but the battery stops charging after a while and is not detectable after a hour or more of use (functions properly once the notebook cools down). In windows, if eve is running minimized in the background, the notebook does not heat up very much, while in OS X there is no difference. All sorts of texture artifacts show up in OS X and the frame rate is about half of that under windows.
Shadowfigt	Posted - 2009.01.29 21:31:00 - [8] I play EVE on the newest macbook pro 15" with the 512 mb nVidia graphic card, and so far EvE seems to run pretty well and smothly under Bootcamp. I use the program "rightmark" to monitor how mutch CPU I use and how hot my computer gets. So far with the best settings in eve I normally use 85-90% of the computer CPU and the temperature of the computer stays at or below 77 celcius. Of the 5 days I have monitored my computer, tho onlytime it went wrong was when I ran 4 eve clients and i started get warnings that my computer topped 124% of my computer's CPU
Remus Kurgan Caldari Void Engineers	Posted - 2009.02.03 17:20:00 - [9] Originally by: Adira Lotz I was going to buy a new Mac book Pro (15ö) and then read this. I was planning on running EVE under XP via Bootcamp at least until the native Mac client is a lot better. I have no problem using one of the programs suggested as a temporary fix but: Can you tell me if this problem manifests itself in that situation (EVE using Bootcamp)? If so how would I tell if the temperatures were getting too high and how would I stop this occurring? This would be my first Apple so I am not very knowledgeable about how Bootcamp would impact this situation. Also would running the Premium client under XP work well enough to take part in large fleet fights? Thanks Temperature controls should not change between Windows and the Mac side, all of the SMC controls are written to firmware on the logic board, so if fans are not spinning up properly or not cooling the machine properly, it is likely an issue with either the SMC, the firmware, or a hardware failure of some kind. There are applications, both Windows and Macs, that can tell the software to override the firmware instructions and make the machine run fans at full blast always or other things like that. If the machine is functioning properly, it should cool itself properly. If the Mac OS notes an overtemp, and cannot correct it, the machine is designed to shut itself down completely to prevent hardware damage. That's assuming that the temp sensors are responding properly, but usually if they're not, the computer will assume the temp sensor is dead and spin correlating fans up to 100% automatically.
wenxiu Gallente 3M Institute Sang Do Oligarchic Democracy	Posted - 2009.02.06 08:02:00 - [10] While the Mac may shut down to prevent damage to components, do realize that too much heat exposure to your batteries can drastically reduce their service life. I've seen 3 NEW batteries being replaced and 2 more currently having about 50% or less capacity after being used for 6 months or so while playing EVE. Now I keep the bad battery for when I am playing EVE and swap the good one for when I need to be outdoors and moving about but I specifically ban all EVE playing using that good battery.

Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.02.12 22:14:00 - [11] I've been using SMC Fan Control... seems to be doing a good job.. don't see the CPU peeking over 70C. Tempted to kick up the fans an another 1000 RPM's to see if that helps. Idling for the most part puts it at 30 to 40C. And that's a Macbook Pro 15" late 2008. =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
ghattaa	Posted - 2009.02.25 17:02:00 - [12] AH!! Thanks for the great post. I noticed my temps in the 80s after a few hours of play I'm on the new MBP Unibody (Late 2008), whereas I never had this issue with my early 2008 MBP.
Tir Arsil	Posted - 2009.03.02 04:06:00 - [13] I'm using a (CTO) 2.8 GHz unibody 15" MBP here, and when I first got into the game a couple of months ago, the CPU would easily go to 100C using the 9600M GT. Two SMC updates later and this is no longer the case. Usually cruises around 80C or so with the fans holding steady around 6K. This is using the native MacOS client under 10.5.6.
Ajility	Posted - 2009.03.03 11:24:00 - [14] Seems to be quite the difference between the MBP and the MB .. I play on the late 2008 unibody MB 13" and using smcFanControl boosting the single fan in the MB to 6000 rpm while playing eve allows me to cruise around at about 60 celcius on my CPU ... Normal speed is of course 2000 RPM, but i run at 3000 in OS X just because I don't mind the tiny bit more noise it makes at 3000 instead of 2000 and it keeps me down around 45-47 celcius when not running Eve.. Seems there's more fans in the MBP but also that it develops about twice as much heat .. Tried running Eve without boosting the fans up, letting it run default and decide the speed on it's own, it were running about 3700 RPM which left me at 66 celcius on the CPU .. nowhere near any danger levels..
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.03.14 20:01:00 - [15] Ok smartypants Mac Users... Late 2008 MBP... What would you choose for a cooling pad. I'd like to keep my graphics settings maxed out. I want to see my core temps stay around the low to mid 50's... without using dryice : O P =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
Tir Arsil	Posted - 2009.03.17 16:57:00 - [16] Edited by: Tir Arsil on 17/03/2009 17:00:44 The new MBPs aren't designed to run at 50 C at full load -- or even 60 or 70. Oh noes they get hot. Really hot. You have AppleCare, right?
Cor Aidan Imperium Forces Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.03.17 23:27:00 - [17] Edited by: Cor Aidan on 17/03/2009 23:36:01 Edited by: Cor Aidan on 17/03/2009 23:31:32 MBP (2007 model): dual 2.4GHZ, nVidia 8600M GT 256MB here, OSX 10.5.6. Was not really having heat problems with Apocrypha (typical approx 60-65 C with fans at 4200RPM) but the new March 17th patch has me running at 80 degC with fans at 5200 RPM... and that's after turning the shaders down all the way, too. Something in this patch is trying to cook my poor computer...should I file a separate bug report (not really a bug, just something in the delta from previous to current patch is running my CPU a lot harder...) I just had my logic board replaced due to the shaky nVidia chips in the original batch, and I know that was a heat issue, so I'm quite sensitive to my system running at anything over 70 C. EDIT Ah strange - I just realized that for some reason I had two EvE clients running (which is fairly abnormal for me since I only ever run one). One was working fine but one I didn't know about was in the background, stalled, and eating up all my CPU. Killed it and all is well - perhaps something with the patcher starting two clients instead of one after the patch?
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.03.18 23:22:00 - [18] Originally by: Tir Arsil Edited by: Tir Arsil on 17/03/2009 17:00:44 The new MBPs aren't designed to run at 50 C at full load -- or even 60 or 70. Oh noes they get hot. Really hot. You have AppleCare, right? <---- ACSP/ACTC/ACMT (Apple Certified Support Professional 10.5/Technical Coordinator 10.5 SERVER/Maintenance Technician(very soon) The MT part means I AM Apple care... Ok maybe not directly... but it means I'm certified to do Apple Care Maitencnce. While Apple has not published any specific maximum limits in there service manuals... or I've not done the research yet the rule of thumb is simple this... and this is authoritative... so don't listen to anyone else. No seriously... don't. Anything above 75C is dangerous.... Thats as simple as that. Keep in mind it's not so much the CPU Core temp at that temp... its more of what it effects around it... cooling down...heating up rappidly... etc..etc... Prolonged temp exposure causes radiation effects to spread to other areas... MBP are made of aluimium which makes it strong and light... but they hold heat like a #####. My problem is the cooling pad pushing/pulling air under the MBP is accomplishing nothing. It's the heat being retained in the metal base that needs to be absorbed away from the MBP. 50C is safe.... but anything near or above 75 makes me a wee bit skiddish. Do a conversion to F and you'll see why real quick. Now there's no need to panic... I said its dangerous... not fatal. There's a big difference... Dangerous in my terms is you'll probably be ok... just don't expect it to live very long. Fatal is obvious... can you say shiny pile of metal goo? Heat/Friction is bad for CPU's.... or GPU's.. or any electrical components. The cooler you can run them... consistently... the better off they are. I got a guy with a master's degree in Physics backing me on this one and too many years of insanity over Electrical Engineering and product safety.... I think its safe to assume he's right about this one. No he doesn't play EVE Online. Wish he did! : O P =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
Nickel Deuce VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.03.19 09:53:00 - [19] Originally by: Drake Draconis <---- ACSP/ACTC/ACMT ...stuff... So is there anyway to run both cores at 100% utilization and stay within tolerances? Something doesn't add up here. I have a 15" unibody MBP and with two clients running, usually hovers at 75-80˚C with the fan at >6000rpm. Are you meaning to tell me they don't engineer their products to withstand max utilization? Well.. glad i have applecare..
Ami Nia Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.19 12:00:00 - [20] Originally by: Nickel Deuce Originally by: Drake Draconis <---- ACSP/ACTC/ACMT ...stuff... So is there anyway to run both cores at 100% utilization and stay within tolerances? Something doesn't add up here. I have a 15" unibody MBP and with two clients running, usually hovers at 75-80˚C with the fan at >6000rpm. Are you meaning to tell me they don't engineer their products to withstand max utilization? Well.. glad i have applecare.. Do your own research. If you want my opinion, portables are not designed to stay cool on load. Intel CPU specs for desktop CPUs are around 85¦C diode. Intel CPU specs for portable CPUs are around 100¦C core. GPU specs are around 100¦C diode. Military experts call it a Templar, a fighter drone used by Amarr carriers. -- Sheriff Jones apochribba -- Aurora Morgan

Kayalin Akana	Posted - 2009.04.01 22:46:00 - [21] Edited by: Kayalin Akana on 01/04/2009 22:46:51 Double Post. Delete.
Kayalin Akana	Posted - 2009.04.01 22:47:00 - [22] Any advice on a good application to use for checking the temp etc like you lot are doing? The difference is, I'm running EVE on Windows XP using my Macbook Pro. Any suggestions of a good app? Don't want to cook the computer!
Umbrafluff Minmatar	Posted - 2009.04.03 05:07:00 - [23] I have a question related to this and I guess this is the place to ask rather than making a new thread. I got both my accounts running concurrently on my MacBook Pro and I'm using smcFanControl to watch temp and fan speed. I would like to be able to mine with one and haul with the other, but with both running at once (with graphics turned down) I need the fan turned all the way up to keep the temp below 70C (which seems to be about the point that it shouldn't be allowed to exceed). Will running it like this for a few hours a night (on average, probably sometimes more and sometimes less) wear out the fan or something else faster than normal?
Ami Nia Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.03 12:19:00 - [24] Thanks for not contributing to buriyng threads even deeper. Some info on overheating that currently is on page 4 of the thread list. Laptops should not suffer too much even at highter temps than 70 C. Remember desktop CPUs are rated around 80 while laptops are rated around 110 (unfortunatelly not a good comparison as they are rated using different sensors. What Whisper says is that the new McBook Pros seem to have some more issues in starting up the fan (they came preset to start it at highter temps). But if you look at the OP here, it's going to 100 that worries him, not 70. As for the fan itself wearing out ... well, sure it's a mechanical part that moves and may wear out. But being too worried about this is a bit paranoid. It still is more likely you end up with the hard disk failing than the fan. I'd say if your fan fails, it was defective to begin with. Military experts call it a Templar, a fighter drone used by Amarr carriers. -- Sheriff Jones apochribba -- Aurora Morgan
nonombre	Posted - 2009.04.09 07:46:00 - [25] I found this conversation pretty interesting, especially since Apocrypha I've been regularly hitting CPU temps of 75C+ (and GPU temps even higher) within minutes of starting EVE. Thought I'd experiment a bit and post the results in the hopes of helping mitigate this issue. I'm running on a 2007 15" MBP, 10.5.6, nvidia 8600GT GPU, 4GB RAM. I've tried external fans, raising the laptop off the desk surface to increase airflow, smcFanControl to max the fans while playing, everything but dry ice , all with limited benefit. Along with the rest of the discussion, the following post really got me thinking about the dynamics of the internal heat buildup: Originally by: wenxiu While the Mac may shut down to prevent damage to components, do realize that too much heat exposure to your batteries can drastically reduce their service life... (((snip))) So I pulled my battery completely, cranked the fans to 4500rpm, and fired up EVE. To my utter amazement my CPU temps are a steady 45-47C after hours of play! I do have the laptop raised from the desk surface to encourage more airflow, which I think is a good idea in any case with these machines. Of course this was a very casual experiment, and YMMV, but I'm sold. This is the only way I'll play from now on. I'd be interested to hear others experience with this technique, especially with the new late-2008 MBP. Hope this is useful to someone, and thanks to all for helping me get to this comfy temp zone!
Cheekything Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2009.04.10 07:29:00 - [26] Originally by: nonombre ... So I pulled my battery completely, cranked the fans to 4500rpm, and fired up EVE. To my utter amazement my CPU temps are a steady 45-47C after hours of play!... Love and much win. I've been panicing about the heat my laptop gives out mainly when it goes up to 90 at 6000 RPM but battery out and it's nearly fine :D
Vincent Athena	Posted - 2009.04.14 21:00:00 - [27] How do any of you know your CPU temperature or control your fan speed?
nonombre	Posted - 2009.04.15 06:07:00 - [28] Originally by: Vincent Athena Edited by: Vincent Athena on 14/04/2009 21:08:27 Nevermind, found it. smcFanControl is a downloadable app. How do any of you know your CPU temperature or control your fan speed? smcFanControl only allows you to set your fan speeds. I use iStat Menus for easy, always on, monitoring of many system stats, like CPU load, memory usage, temps, etc. Or try iStat Nano, if you prefer widgets. Great little tool: http://www.islayer.com/apps/istatmenus/
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.04.24 06:11:00 - [29] Originally by: Nickel Deuce Originally by: Drake Draconis <---- ACSP/ACTC/ACMT ...stuff... So is there anyway to run both cores at 100% utilization and stay within tolerances? Something doesn't add up here. I have a 15" unibody MBP and with two clients running, usually hovers at 75-80˚C with the fan at >6000rpm. Are you meaning to tell me they don't engineer their products to withstand max utilization? Well.. glad i have applecare.. A: EVE runs in a windows virtualization/translation environment... its going to futz with CPU load... the trick is memory load and gpu load really. B: Run the fans full out C: I suggest a Thermal Pad (Absorption kind) I don't see temps going any higher than 70 unless I forget to check the pad as when they hit equilibrium they don't pull heat away efficiently enough. D: Apple did not engineer them properly to cool efficiently and it's a pet peeve of mine. They also had this issue with previous models. In all honesty just keep them cool as possible and do not let them hover above 70 degrees C for prolonged periods of time. Ignore anyone who says otherwise... this is someone who has done a great deal of research on apple hardware and I got a father for a physicist/electrical engineer (retired/disabled)... who loves to tinker with computers and other fun things. PS: sorry for the slow response ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.04.24 06:18:00 - [30] Originally by: Ami Nia Originally by: Nickel Deuce Originally by: Drake Draconis <---- ACSP/ACTC/ACMT ...stuff... So is there anyway to run both cores at 100% utilization and stay within tolerances? Something doesn't add up here. I have a 15" unibody MBP and with two clients running, usually hovers at 75-80˚C with the fan at >6000rpm. Are you meaning to tell me they don't engineer their products to withstand max utilization? Well.. glad i have applecare.. Do your own research. If you want my opinion, portables are not designed to stay cool on load. Intel CPU specs for desktop CPUs are around 85¦C diode. Intel CPU specs for portable CPUs are around 100¦C core. GPU specs are around 100¦C diode. Your opinion is noted and rejected while laughing. That's like saying you can drive a car constantly at 100 MPH and expect nothing to go wrong after 12 to 24 hours of use as far as tires and brakes and everything else. If you want to be that stupid and reckless then by my guest. Don't expect apple care to cover it either... you can bet on that... and that is an authoritative answer. They have a very strong clause for "Accidental Damage" and they aren't stupid either. If you intentionally let your CPU/GPU's run that hot you are shooting yourself in the head. Stay no higher than 70C, 75C at most... if you go any higher... you are utterly on your own. You can choose to ignore me at your own risk. The biggest problem is the cooling intank and exhaust are all in the same area. Which is stupid. This is why I'm not zealous over apple. I've got the service manuals to prove it.. and no you can't have them.. Apple won't let me : O P You need to make sure there is a fair bit of space behind your MBP.... and make sure its not sitting on something that retains heat.... as radiation (as in thermal radiation) will make life hard on your computer. Not so much core temp. I'm using a Thermaltake Heat Absorption Pad that pulls the heat quite nicely keeping my temps around 60 to 65 depending on what I'm doing. Every coupe of hours I have to rotate it 180 to keep the "stuff" inside the pad working.... as it won't work so well once the absorption hits equilibrium it needs to cool down itself. But its certainly better than letting it sit on a surface or a cooling fan pad which is useless as theres no ammount of air to move other than a slab of aluminum. You guys can debate it all you want.... fact remains... keep it cool and keep it safe. One of the symptoms of pushing it too hard... Graphical anomalies show up when you read text out of game. Still tracing it.... suspect its driver related and not temp. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================

Ami Nia Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.24 07:14:00 - [31] Originally by: Drake Draconis Originally by: Ami Nia If you want my opinion, portables are not designed to stay cool on load. Your opinion is noted and rejected while laughing. Really? So you are positively telling us that Apple portables are DESIGNED to stay cool on load? Then try it. Take an Apple portable. Put it on 100% load on both cores and the GPU too while the battery is under recharge. Do not use any third party tool to crank up the fans, do not use external ventilation or dissipation, DO make sure it's air exausts are clean and free and that you are operating in a room with temperature and moisture within the specs. If it does not stay cool either it's a broken portable and you should ask Apple for a replacement, or it was NOT designed to stay cool under load. Originally by: Drake Draconis That's like saying you can drive a car constantly at 100 MPH and expect nothing to go wrong after 12 to 24 hours of use as far as tires and brakes and everything else. You really do not understand the difference between mechanical moving parts and electronics, do you? Your example would be more pertinent if we were talking of putting the machine under load till it heats up, then stop it and let it cool, then heat up again etc. The CHANGE in temperature is much more damaging than a costant high temperature. Originally by: Drake Draconis Don't expect apple care to cover it either... you can bet on that... and that is an authoritative answer. If that "authoritative" thing is the ACMT you will be getting soon and your father being a retired physicist/electrical engineer, then you are not any more authoritative or expert than I am. Except I do not go around telling everybody that my father is an engineer or that I did hardware support since 1987 or that I've been working in an Apple authorized shop since before EvE had a Mac client. Originally by: Drake Draconis They have a very strong clause for "Accidental Damage" and they aren't stupid either. Yes we have, no we are not stupid, yes damage by overheating is fully covered unless there's evidence that the airflow was somehow impeded (mostly because of dust). Originally by: Drake Draconis If you intentionally let your CPU/GPU's run that hot you are shooting yourself in the head. Stay no higher than 70C, 75C at most... if you go any higher... you are utterly on your own. If you are going to give temperatures, then you should also specify what those temperature refer to. Is it desktop or laptop? Mesured at diode, core or heatsink. Note that the temperatures I listed: Originally by: Ami Nia Intel CPU specs for desktop CPUs are around 85¦C diode. Intel CPU specs for portable CPUs are around 100¦C core. GPU specs are around 100¦C diode. are clearly indicated as being the Intel specs and clearly say where they are to be measured. Above those temperatures the chip may take damage. But you should not see those, because the machine will shutdown before getting there (to protect itself). By design. Also those are NOT the temperatures you should see while working. Those are the Intel specs. And as such I listed them. Portable CPU temperature at core sensor under maximum load should generally not go above 90¦C. EvE is not maximum load. With EvE expect up to 70¦-85¦. Desktop processors are another story. You use diode sensor there and should generally not go above 70¦C. With EvE you'll be at around 60¦-65¦ max. Originally by: Drake Draconis I've got the service manuals to prove it.. and no you can't have them.. Apple won't let me : O P To prove what? Where the intank and exhaust are? Everybody knows that the moment Apple ships the first piece and it gets dissected on the internet. And thanks, but I do not need your manuals, I can get them from the AASP site too. Military experts call it a Templar, a fighter drone used by Amarr carriers. -- Sheriff Jones apochribba -- Aurora Morgan
Ami Nia Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.24 07:25:00 - [32] Originally by: Drake Draconis Sold a number of these and they run just as hot... even the older MBP's... why Apple lets this happen is beyond even me. Ohh I see. You reject my statement that they are not designed to run cool on load, but then also say that they all run hot and you do not understand why Apple lets this happen. You do realize that the very fact that Apple lets this happen MEANS they are not designed to run cool? Then WHY they designed them to run hotter than YOU would like, we can debate. But they ARE designed to run hotter than YOU like. And one reason COULD be that running them hotter than YOU like, is NOT a problem at all. Military experts call it a Templar, a fighter drone used by Amarr carriers. -- Sheriff Jones apochribba -- Aurora Morgan
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.04.25 05:24:00 - [33] I suggest you take a step back and think about what your talking about before you start spitting your so called self proclaimed expertise on the so called subject. 1: They ARE NOT designed to run that hot... get it through your thick skull. NO computer is designed to take that kind of abuse... and If you insist on pushing that crap then expect me to slap you in the face each and every bloody time. Hell I fix this stuff... what do you do? play games 24/7 and encourage people to take risks? Sounds like marketing to me! You start quoting wikipedia on me and I'm going to laugh. 2: I am NOT an apple fanboi/zealot/wacko other than a geek who happens to like computers to work when he gets home from fixing ##### windows systems that crash all the time. I have been the victim of a few apple failures and I happen to know quite a few stupid things about apples product that are bugs/glitches and other areas... but they are nothing critical... except a select few. Allow me to drive the point home for your thick skull shall we? Take the Macbook Pro 15" Aluminum 1: The Exhaust Ports and Intake Ports are on the rear in the same location. That's stupid. That means its re-breathing the same air... ridiculous. 2: Aluminum is a great metal... light... durable. It also sucks heat like a sponge... and will not disapate that heat without appropriate measures. So while your bible proclaims your so called facts... keep in mind that heat has to go somewhere.. and it will not stay in one place... it will radiate... physics 101. 3: You read my post and took it line for line and obviously didn't read it in full which means you misunderstood and now your eating your foot with your 2nd post which tells me one thing... you have no bloody idea what your talking about and your just regurtating the information you read on the net. I work for an Apple Reseller.. I took the classes and I had to study my ass off for the materail just to be allowed to service the macs under warranty. Now I don't give a bloody rip what you think because this is just a sandbox fight saying your wrong I'm right and your stupid and I'm smart and so forth. I will however tell everyone here that you should take CCP's warning literally and clearly. It is YOUR repsoncibility to take care of your equipment... you should NOT let your computer run that hot. If you do you will likely lose it and if you turn it in to Apple as a defect even if its obviously designed to not take that kind of abuse whether it be a stupid marketing ploy or not... they will not cover it. So if you want to bet your 3000 dollar laptop on running full temp... be my guest. I however will be a good steward of my equipment.. I plan to have this baby for 5 years... not 2... not 1. I have sold a number of these guys and customers are not the typical geek mindset and they let them run hot and everything else and its very obvious.. Apple frakked up... bad. Be shocked... gasp away... yes... Apple screwed up. They screwed up with the last series too... The G5 Series ran very hot too! They are spending a lot of time on looking good and making fun bells and whistles and they are losing ground on the engineering side of the coin. But its fixable... you can tweak it and you can help it along and get by just fine. By the way Miss smarty pants... while you say you can run them hot.... did it occur to you that you have other items on the motherboard who CANT take that heat? what happens if you blow a capacitor or some other electronic component? How about the north bridge chip or the south bridge chips that are near by? Hard drive? tight spaces don't allow for much room for heat to dissipate. This isn't a frakking tower... so grow a bloody brain and stop spreading lies. Stop assuming Apple is perfect and makes Macbooks to run EVE Online at full tilt with the fans at 1000 RPM's You'll live longer. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Nethras Minmatar Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2009.05.06 07:45:00 - [34] Edited by: Nethras on 06/05/2009 07:45:04 Originally by: Drake Draconis If there's one thing I hate... is seeing a client walk in my shop with a 3000 dollar laptop damaged because he or she took it too far. The fact that you think it is even remotely reasonable to call the results of running a laptop at 100% load with factory settings "taking it too far" pretty much relieves me of any worries that you have a clue about what you are saying. It is trivial to create test code that does enough useless work to hit 100% CPU load. Throwing a completely unreasonable amount of graphics computation into the mix isn't a lot harder. Apple knows what temps 100% load results in if they're testing these things at all. There is no processor temp display with an out of the box MacBook Pro for a user to monitor. There are no warnings that pop up that your machine is getting hot and that you should quit making your computer think too hard. And quite frankly, "safe" operating temperatures have probably been rethought since your father retired - power consumption and heat have become major issues relatively recently, and the limits have been pushed by Intel and other processor manufacturers, and pushed hard. Now, it's possible that running as hot as modern laptops do may be causing more problems than has been realized. It's possible that Apple's design choices have run them into problems not faced by, say, non-aluminum cased laptops. It's quite possible that Apple could and should improve the cooling systems in their laptops. And it's possible, as a result of the above or other problems, that Apple and/or other computer manufacturers are producing inherently flawed products. How warranties cover the results of such flaws isn't really the point of this conversation, though - the designers of these computers know what temperatures are reached, and unless they're stupid enough to be pulling a Ford Pinto (albeit without the part of it killing people, and with a product that is not designed to minimize cost), believe that these temps are not a problem. It would be interesting to know if that assessment of "not a problem" was over a relatively limited lifetime - say, the length of warranties or a couple years past that - but the assessment is there. Trying to convince people that the proper operating temperature is under that designed into the product isn't exactly productive. Trying to keep your computer as cool as possible is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, and certainly won't hurt its lifetime, but being concerned about the exact temps being reached when it's not above the specs given by the manufacturers is bordering on paranoid. Advising people to limit the load they place on their computers because of heat issues when the computer is able to ventilate normally is just silly.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre People for Organised Peace	Posted - 2009.05.06 14:34:00 - [35] It's quite possible that your a total idiot and love to take risks. The choice is yours... you want to push it that hard... be my guest. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= Dependable, Honorable, Intelligent, No-nonsense Vote Herschel Yamamoto for CSM!
Kachiko Aramoro	Posted - 2009.05.23 20:04:00 - [36] OK, so is there a solution to the heat problem? I noticed this while trying to play any game. The fans spin incredibly fast and it just gets too hot. Is there a way to setup cooling for the laptop? Also, is there a stress test program where you can raise the temps gradually to see if cooling works? I bought an antec notebook cooler with a huge fan, but it doesn't seem to move much air. I have to wait to get my unibody MBP back from Apple for service, but then I want to figure something out. The worst part is, I'm using a 30" monitor and I'm sure it's going to take a miracle to keep it cool running at that resolution. I have a stand off to the side that I can use to leave the computer on and open while it's hooked up. Unfortunately, this is going to probably be my gaming rig for 2-3 months until I piece together my new PC. The MBP is my photo editing machine, so I can't go killing it.
Zedic Amarr Galactic Dominion Externus Hostis	Posted - 2009.06.03 13:24:00 - [37] Lordy,, I'm getting ready to invest around $2600 USD for the 17' Macbook Pro. Can I play Eve on it? I don't understand all of this technical stuff everyone is yelling at each other, and because I travel for work, a desktop is not an option for me. Currently, I use a Gateway FX6860 and it's a pain in my ass. I want a pressciouss er,, I mean a Macbook Pro.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre	Posted - 2009.06.03 14:45:00 - [38] Originally by: Zedic Lordy,, I'm getting ready to invest around $2600 USD for the 17' Macbook Pro. Can I play Eve on it? I don't understand all of this technical stuff everyone is yelling at each other, and because I travel for work, a desktop is not an option for me. Currently, I use a Gateway FX6860 and it's a pain in my ass. I want a pressciouss er,, I mean a Macbook Pro. A: Yes you can. B: Don't waste your money on a 17".... your better off maxing out a 15" to give you the ability to change out the batt at a later date... unless your really hard up for that bigger screen. The point of this discussion is you don't screw around when it comes to heat.... you take the precautions and you take care of your equipment.... thats the bottom line. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= Dependable, Honorable, Intelligent, No-nonsense Vote Herschel Yamamoto for CSM!
Zedic Amarr Galactic Dominion Externus Hostis	Posted - 2009.06.03 15:23:00 - [39] Originally by: Drake Draconis Originally by: Zedic Lordy,, I'm getting ready to invest around $2600 USD for the 17' Macbook Pro. Can I play Eve on it? I don't understand all of this technical stuff everyone is yelling at each other, and because I travel for work, a desktop is not an option for me. Currently, I use a Gateway FX6860 and it's a pain in my ass. I want a pressciouss er,, I mean a Macbook Pro. A: Yes you can. B: Don't waste your money on a 17".... your better off maxing out a 15" to give you the ability to change out the batt at a later date... unless your really hard up for that bigger screen. The point of this discussion is you don't screw around when it comes to heat.... you take the precautions and you take care of your equipment.... thats the bottom line. Thanks for the advice Drake. You know, I think I would be happy with the 15". I've been looking at them in person and for a 15" screen they certainly look big, it seems like you get more screen real estate than with a PC, or maybe it's just because I am in love. :D Is there a heat pad you can suggest? Preferably one that's very portable. I work as a flight attendant, so I am constantly traveling, and when I'm not flying I'm playing Eve. Or eating... Or sleeping... etc! :)
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre	Posted - 2009.06.10 23:36:00 - [40] Edited by: Drake Draconis on 10/06/2009 23:41:08 Originally by: Zedic Originally by: Drake Draconis Originally by: Zedic Lordy,, I'm getting ready to invest around $2600 USD for the 17' Macbook Pro. Can I play Eve on it? I don't understand all of this technical stuff everyone is yelling at each other, and because I travel for work, a desktop is not an option for me. Currently, I use a Gateway FX6860 and it's a pain in my ass. I want a pressciouss er,, I mean a Macbook Pro. A: Yes you can. B: Don't waste your money on a 17".... your better off maxing out a 15" to give you the ability to change out the batt at a later date... unless your really hard up for that bigger screen. The point of this discussion is you don't screw around when it comes to heat.... you take the precautions and you take care of your equipment.... thats the bottom line. Thanks for the advice Drake. You know, I think I would be happy with the 15". I've been looking at them in person and for a 15" screen they certainly look big, it seems like you get more screen real estate than with a PC, or maybe it's just because I am in love. :D Is there a heat pad you can suggest? Preferably one that's very portable. I work as a flight attendant, so I am constantly traveling, and when I'm not flying I'm playing Eve. Or eating... Or sleeping... etc! :) Freaky Spaceage Stuff I have a white version of that pad... It's got some funny funny salt in it that absorbs the heat turning it into a gel over time. It really does work... you put your hand on it at room temp and its unusually colder than you'd expect it to be. The only downside is once it hits equilibrium (the stage where you can't pull anymore heat) you need to rotate the sucker 180 to keep your Macbook cooler. Ive been running SMC Fan Controls on mine at 6200 RPM's on both fans... and I do NOT have the extra GPU engaged. I do just fine.. I'm willing to take a hit on the FPS if it means a better lifespan for my macbook. If the temp hits 65 to 70 range on that pad... time to flip the pad. Turn brightness down to 50% and turn the keyboard backlight OFF. You'd be surprised how much heat that takes off the overall unit. My temp hovers around 55 to 62C when I'm doing all sorts of stuff. I'm sure if i got pulled into Jita it would be a bit interesting. With Extra GPU engaged... you'll gain an instant 10C increase in heat... and lose 2-3 hours of Batt life if on batt. SMC Fan Controls will allow you to build profiles so you don't need to sound like a hovercraft every time you get your MBP out. Put some headphones on and say screw it to the noise..and pew pew away! PS: I rarely ever have to flip the pad... so-to-speak... and when i say flip... I mean spin it around so the back is the front... as the heat builds up on the back end of your MBP. PS2: Macbook Pro's have been redone/remade... so I'm not sure if they fixed the damned SMC chip on them or not.

Tiska Drak Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.13 04:19:00 - [41] Originally by: Drake Draconis You'd be surprised how much heat that takes off the overall unit. My temp hovers around 55 to 62C when I'm doing all sorts of stuff. I'm sure if i got pulled into Jita it would be a bit interesting. What are you getting for temps when running EVE? I'm about to pull the trigger on a new MBP and am wondering how much the heat situation will change from my early-2008 MBP.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre	Posted - 2009.06.13 14:40:00 - [42] Edited by: Drake Draconis on 13/06/2009 14:41:15 Originally by: Tiska Drak Originally by: Drake Draconis You'd be surprised how much heat that takes off the overall unit. My temp hovers around 55 to 62C when I'm doing all sorts of stuff. I'm sure if i got pulled into Jita it would be a bit interesting. What are you getting for temps when running EVE? I'm about to pull the trigger on a new MBP and am wondering how much the heat situation will change from my early-2008 MBP. I just told you... between 55 and 62C. If I hit 70C... it's when its time to flip the pad... then it goes back down. Keep in mind I'm use the larger of the 2 MBP's with 512 Ram on the GPU and I do NOT have the extra GPU engaged.
Tiska Drak Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.13 16:49:00 - [43] Originally by: Drake Draconis Edited by: Drake Draconis on 13/06/2009 14:41:15 I just told you... between 55 and 62C. Yeah but where are you getting the 55-62C range? 55-62C on the GPU is good, 55-62 on the bottom case is bad :)
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre	Posted - 2009.06.14 04:46:00 - [44] Originally by: Tiska Drak Originally by: Drake Draconis Edited by: Drake Draconis on 13/06/2009 14:41:15 I just told you... between 55 and 62C. Yeah but where are you getting the 55-62C range? 55-62C on the GPU is good, 55-62 on the bottom case is bad :) sorry... the temp I'm referring too is CPU Core temp. The other sensors I've not checked... and honestly the thermal sensors for the bottom case are in the wrong spot. :) ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= Dependable, Honorable, Intelligent, No-nonsense Vote Herschel Yamamoto for CSM!
Dengen Krastinov Vengeance Imperium	Posted - 2009.06.15 07:06:00 - [45] Edited by: Dengen Krastinov on 15/06/2009 07:09:53 With eve, vent, itunes and safari running I usually stay below 80C. I'd prefer it to be lower but as long as it doesnt go above 80 I'll be ok with it. This is with SMC control running both fans at 6000 rpm.
Zedic Amarr Galactic Dominion Eternal Strife	Posted - 2009.06.25 07:42:00 - [46] Originally by: Drake Draconis Edited by: Drake Draconis on 10/06/2009 23:41:08 Originally by: Zedic Originally by: Drake Draconis Originally by: Zedic Lordy,, I'm getting ready to invest around $2600 USD for the 17' Macbook Pro. Can I play Eve on it? I don't understand all of this technical stuff everyone is yelling at each other, and because I travel for work, a desktop is not an option for me. Currently, I use a Gateway FX6860 and it's a pain in my ass. I want a pressciouss er,, I mean a Macbook Pro. A: Yes you can. B: Don't waste your money on a 17".... your better off maxing out a 15" to give you the ability to change out the batt at a later date... unless your really hard up for that bigger screen. The point of this discussion is you don't screw around when it comes to heat.... you take the precautions and you take care of your equipment.... thats the bottom line. Thanks for the advice Drake. You know, I think I would be happy with the 15". I've been looking at them in person and for a 15" screen they certainly look big, it seems like you get more screen real estate than with a PC, or maybe it's just because I am in love. :D Is there a heat pad you can suggest? Preferably one that's very portable. I work as a flight attendant, so I am constantly traveling, and when I'm not flying I'm playing Eve. Or eating... Or sleeping... etc! :) Freaky Spaceage Stuff I have a white version of that pad... It's got some funny funny salt in it that absorbs the heat turning it into a gel over time. It really does work... you put your hand on it at room temp and its unusually colder than you'd expect it to be. The only downside is once it hits equilibrium (the stage where you can't pull anymore heat) you need to rotate the sucker 180 to keep your Macbook cooler. Ive been running SMC Fan Controls on mine at 6200 RPM's on both fans... and I do NOT have the extra GPU engaged. I do just fine.. I'm willing to take a hit on the FPS if it means a better lifespan for my macbook. If the temp hits 65 to 70 range on that pad... time to flip the pad. Turn brightness down to 50% and turn the keyboard backlight OFF. You'd be surprised how much heat that takes off the overall unit. My temp hovers around 55 to 62C when I'm doing all sorts of stuff. I'm sure if i got pulled into Jita it would be a bit interesting. With Extra GPU engaged... you'll gain an instant 10C increase in heat... and lose 2-3 hours of Batt life if on batt. SMC Fan Controls will allow you to build profiles so you don't need to sound like a hovercraft every time you get your MBP out. Put some headphones on and say screw it to the noise..and pew pew away! PS: I rarely ever have to flip the pad... so-to-speak... and when i say flip... I mean spin it around so the back is the front... as the heat builds up on the back end of your MBP. PS2: Macbook Pro's have been redone/remade... so I'm not sure if they fixed the damned SMC chip on them or not. Thanks for the Pad suggestion Drake! I know ya said not to, but I'm going to get the 17"... I can't help myself! (myyy presssciousssss) I'll of course be using it with the discrete card turned on, though it sounds like I could get away with playing just fine with it turned off (thanks again Tiska!!)
Matharos Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.07.06 20:06:00 - [47] I have been playing eve on my 2007 MBP since I bought it. It CPU temp is usually at 92C this is with two clients, vent, firefox and sometimes Itunes. I have also set the laptop on the roof of my car driven off and come back and hour later and found it still worked after it had been laying in the snow for over an hour. Plus multiple times falling down the stairs and coming with me wherever I go. It shows no signs of dieing except for a shorter battery life. Imho the MBP is tougher then people give it credit for
Lord XSiV Amarr Digital Research - Omega Protocol	Posted - 2009.07.26 06:11:00 - [48] Originally by: Drake Draconis Stuff.... This guy knows about as much as the people at the apple store, which for all realistic purposes is nothing. First off, spare yourself the 3k investment. You are just signing up to Steve Jobs revolving payment plan as you will be buying another inferior device in 2-3 years. Apple 'Care' is designed to put the blame back on the user for any hardware issues, i.e. you used the device in a way that is not acceptable to apple. Not acceptable by their own definition includes installing software or using the device for more than 20 minutes at a time. Don't believe, well call them up and ask them yourself. And further more, this guy actually admits to not being an expert so why would you listen to him anyhow? He claims to be a 'technician in training' which is a joke in itself; if you can't figure out computer hardware on your own then you shouldn't operate a computer outside of what software came with it when you bought it, which is what apple devices are intended for. It is kind of like cars. Your mac is akin to one of those smart cars - overpriced, small, single purpose, cheap on gas and bought by a bunch of followers who are insane. A real computer on the other hand is like a racing car - customizable in any way, can be torn down and rebuilt at will, handles like a dream and gets you the girl at the end of the day.
Trebor Daehdoow Gallente Sane Industries Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.07.30 22:35:00 - [49] I've had one of the mid-2009 17" MBPs for several weeks. Running windowed (1600x1000), using the lesser of the two GPUs, with all settings to high (no HDR or shadows, they don't seem to do that much to my eye), with the display mirrored to an external flatpanel,lots of apps in the background, including Final Cut Pro which is rendering mucho video, it is humming along at 86C. Frame rate is down to 20fps because FCP is so cpu-hungry, and the GPU is at least 15C cooler than the CPU. Quitting FCP... taptaptap... the temp goes down to 75C, the fans wind down, the frame rate goes to 30fps... oh wait, let me set it to Interval Immediate... 40fps or so, but back up to 82C. Truth be told, my old MBP 17" had heat issues with EVE; it always ran hot, and eventually got to the point where it would trigger an emergency thermal shutdown (documented in another thread). After buying this one, I sent it back to AppleCare to be checked out, and turned out it had a defective thermal module. When it came back it was running 15C or more cooler under the same load. I gave it to my son - who is quite happy with it... playing EVE, and getting blown up in 0.0 within 2 weeks. BTW, having a laptop in your lap is not great for cooling. Get a lapboard/lapdesk with a pad underneath it; this will ensure you get a proper airgap and promote convective cooling of the base (they are also great for using laptops in cars, btw). And whatever you do, don't put your laptop right on the bed, linens are good insulators (that's what they're supposed to do) and your cooling will go to hell. World Domination - It's fun for the entire family! EViE - The iPhone / iPod Touch Skill Training Monitor
Lord XSiV Amarr Digital Research - Omega Protocol	Posted - 2009.07.31 03:07:00 - [50] Your son stands a better chance of not getting blown up if he had a real computer. I wouldn't let my son use a mac to play eve. I would make darn certain he has the best opportunity available to him regardless of what he is doing. But that is just me, you might be ok with mediocre.



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