EVE Search - 3 Minmatar ships that just don't make sense

All Channels

Ships and Modules

3 Minmatar ships that just don't make sense

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Maeltstome Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.04.16 16:45:00 - [1] - Quote I've been out of the game for a few years and i'm back to find some nice changes. The auto-cannon buffs seem good without being OP and Minmatar are starting to see more shield orientated ships - i prefer armour minnie ships, but i understand the design philosophy. With that in mind, there are 3 ships that haven't been changed despite being under-used for a number of years and that don't follow the design philosophy of the minmatar race. The Claw The Wolf The Muninn So here's why i think so: Minmatar generally have relatively light/fast ships with similar number of mid and low slots. They have good power-grid, normally on par with Gallente but below amarr and boast the second highest CPU (behind caldari). Utility slots in either hi, mid or lo aren't uncommon and normally that 'flavour' module is what makes minmatar appeal. Here's why i don't think these ships fit that: The Claw Has too much powergrid (40 base is FAR too much for a projectile boat) - i feel 35 would be more appropriate. CPU is too low by FAR. Should be around 150 base. Its weight is really high, should be around 1mil imo. Should have the 4-3-3 slot layout: The stiletto has the 3-4-3 for tackle heavy/shield mods, so having the combat ceptor have 4-3-3 makes sense since it still needs to fit tackle on its mids to fill the interceptor role, and having a balanced number of mid/low fits the minnie design philosophy. Summary: Slots: 4-2-4 > 4-3-3 PG: 40 > 35 CPU: 100-150 Mass: 1.126 > 1/1.05 The Wolf Similar to the Claw in it's problems. Too much powergrid, CPU is too low and its slot layout makes no sense. Should be 5-3-4. Summary: Slots: 5-2-5 > 5-3-4 PG: 48 > 43 CPU: 135 > 150 The Muninn This is another slot layout nightmare. It's a sniper boat with 2 un-bonused hi slots and only 3 mids. its powergrid and CPU are very generous, however it's hard to take advantage of this with it's current slot layout. That being said, it's drone bay is also too large. Summary: Slots: 7-3-5 > 6-4-5 Drone bay: 25 > 10/15 I'm not saying these ships are unflyable, but realistically (outside fitting oversized plates) these ships are relatively strong in potential but just need some tweaks to make them realistically viable.
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 463	Posted - 2012.04.16 17:14:00 - [2] - Quote Stop min/maxing them for solo PvP and you will find they all have viable roles. I AM ***** PISSED OFF THAT EVE WILL NOT RUN ON MY COMMODORE 64. THAT ** I QUIT. take all my isk for 1 trit.
Vito Antonio State War Academy Caldari State 45	Posted - 2012.04.16 17:36:00 - [3] - Quote Didn't wolf get buffed recentlyish along with other AFs?
Sovai Elaaren KABS Deep Recon Unit 23	Posted - 2012.04.16 17:48:00 - [4] - Quote I can't really comment on the Claw or Muninn as I haven't flown either of them, but for the wolf, I would disagree about the powergrid. On my 250 arty, 280 arty and plated brawling setups, I have just enough powergrid to fit everything. There are certainly some fits where there is a lot of PG left over, but I'm glad it doesn't have less. It's slot layout is appropriate for a kiting ship, much like the slicer. MWD and long point, lots of lows for prop/hull upgrades and damage/tracking mods. While I would like it to have three mids as well for full tackle/brawling, I guess CCP has a different idea.
Maeltstome Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.04.16 18:14:00 - [5] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: Stop min/maxing them for solo PvP and you will find they all have viable roles. That's not what im doing. The claw can be used for solo PVP as can the wolf, but neither of these ships are useful enough to be picked up over another races ship even in a gang situation. And the muninn... well.... it needs that mid slot for tracking computers and sensor boosters. I thought that would be obvious as part of a sniper gang?
Maeltstome Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.04.16 18:15:00 - [6] - Quote Vito Antonio wrote: Didn't wolf get buffed recentlyish along with other AFs? It did, but it doesn't change how muddled up the layout is. Like i said, it isn't completely broken - it just isn't great at filling its role.
Maeltstome Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.04.16 18:16:00 - [7] - Quote Sovai Elaaren wrote: I can't really comment on the Claw or Muninn as I haven't flown either of them, but for the wolf, I would disagree about the powergrid. On my 250 arty, 280 arty and plated brawling setups, I have just enough powergrid to fit everything. There are certainly some fits where there is a lot of PG left over, but I'm glad it doesn't have less. It's slot layout is appropriate for a kiting ship, much like the slicer. MWD and long point, lots of lows for prop/hull upgrades and damage/tracking mods. While I would like it to have three mids as well for full tackle/brawling, I guess CCP has a different idea. The jaguar is made for arty's, the wolf is made for AC's. It is definitely the more'in your face' of the 2. I see no reason why it needs 5 lows and only 2 mids. It's basically an enyo but worse.
Sovai Elaaren KABS Deep Recon Unit 23	Posted - 2012.04.16 18:37:00 - [8] - Quote Maeltstome wrote: The jaguar is made for arty's, the wolf is made for AC's. It is definitely the more'in your face' of the 2. I see no reason why it needs 5 lows and only 2 mids. It's basically an enyo but worse. Yeah, I know what you mean, between the speed and the bonuses, that's what I would think as well, the wolf is for brawling and the jag for kiting. And you can currently get some good brawling setups with the wolf but that slot layout is better for kiting. A bit of a confused ship.
Maeltstome Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.04.16 19:33:00 - [9] - Quote Sovai Elaaren wrote: Yeah, I know what you mean, between the speed and the bonuses, that's what I would think as well, the wolf is for brawling and the jag for kiting. And you can currently get some good brawling setups with the wolf but that slot layout is better for kiting. A bit of a confused ship. Bingo.
Whitehound 100	Posted - 2012.04.16 19:50:00 - [10] - Quote All three are designed by Boundless Creation: Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential.
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 465	Posted - 2012.04.16 20:11:00 - [11] - Quote Maeltstome wrote: Cipher Jones wrote: Stop min/maxing them for solo PvP and you will find they all have viable roles. That's not what im doing. The claw can be used for solo PVP as can the wolf, but neither of these ships are useful enough to be picked up over another races ship even in a gang situation. And the muninn... well.... it needs that mid slot for tracking computers and sensor boosters. I thought that would be obvious as part of a sniper gang? I want to see a gang where there's so many people that one race gets picked over another and you have to sit at home instead of roam/whatever. "You, number 662, take your claw and GTFO. You are being replaced by Caldari." I AM ***** PISSED OFF THAT EVE WILL NOT RUN ON MY COMMODORE 64. THAT ** I QUIT. take all my isk for 1 trit.
Katalci Creative Cookie Procuring Veto Corp 52	Posted - 2012.04.16 20:32:00 - [12] - Quote The ships aren't the problem; it's just that you're bad at fitting/using them.
Sovai Elaaren KABS Deep Recon Unit 24	Posted - 2012.04.16 20:58:00 - [13] - Quote Katalci wrote: The ships aren't the problem; it's just that you're bad at fitting/using them. As I was reading this over again, I was thinking, despite the ships bonuses and slots being somewhat at odds, the Wolf is still a great ship, good at both brawling and kiting. I'm actually far less impressed with the Jag than the Wolf.
Eli Green The Arrow Project CORE. 1	Posted - 2012.04.16 21:17:00 - [14] - Quote Whitehound wrote: All three are designed by Boundless Creation: Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. +1
Alara IonStorm 1994	Posted - 2012.04.16 22:06:00 - [15] - Quote I just don't get the Muninn. I mean a Fleet Artillery Boat with 7 High Slots and only 5 Guns... I mean 4 Mids, 6 Lows like the Hurricane would seem to be a much better use of those slots. Or at least 6 High, 4 Mid, 5 Low. But 3 Mids on a Shield Tanker... It's like if the Zealot was 7 High, 3 Mid, 5 Low with 5 Guns. Does anyone know why they gave it so many Highs?
FT Diomedes Factio Paucorum 44	Posted - 2012.04.17 00:12:00 - [16] - Quote The Muninn is still widely used, but it would be awesome if one of the highs got moved to the mid slots. It could also stand to be a bit easier to fit. Many Minmatar ships suffer from the original misguided attempts to make them split-weapon ships.I think that is why the Muninn has those two extra high slots.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School 157	Posted - 2012.04.17 00:36:00 - [17] - Quote The Mewnin is a very good long range HAC if you are into that sort of thing, but neither the Claw or the Wolf are worth flying compared to the other ships in their class. 2 midslot frigates are pretty awful.
Zarnak Wulf CTRL-Q Iron Oxide. 318	Posted - 2012.04.17 03:42:00 - [18] - Quote Let's be honest. If the Wolf had three midslots we would all see Shield tanked wolves. I'm glad CCP did not go that route. As it stands the Claw and Wolf have a fitting grid good enough to fit: The largest tier AC. A small Nuet MWD and scramble 200mm plate and DC Resistance plates, damage rigs, and/or damage and tracking mods. They are among the smallest interceptors and assault frigates. They're fine.
Tarn Kugisa Space Mongolian Pinked 66	Posted - 2012.04.17 03:45:00 - [19] - Quote My CEO flies the Wolf Quite effectively. Got some nice solo KM's w/it I Endorse this Product and/or Service [url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16580[/url]
Halete Teraa Matar White-Lotus 54	Posted - 2012.04.17 05:27:00 - [20] - Quote Sorry, when I read about the Wolf all I could think was 'awesome, homogenization, just what I like to see'. Punctuation to designate sarcasm where, language? Free hugs for Amarr holders. No, really.
Katalci Creative Cookie Procuring Veto Corp 55	Posted - 2012.04.17 05:46:00 - [21] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: The Muninn is still widely used, but it would be awesome if one of the highs got moved to the mid slots. It could also stand to be a bit easier to fit. Many Minmatar ships suffer from the original misguided attempts to make them split-weapon ships.I think that is why the Muninn has those two extra high slots. cyno + smartbomb (if your fleet is into that kind of kinky thing) or offline probe launcher, or a salvager
FT Diomedes Factio Paucorum 46	Posted - 2012.04.17 05:56:00 - [22] - Quote Katalci wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: The Muninn is still widely used, but it would be awesome if one of the highs got moved to the mid slots. It could also stand to be a bit easier to fit. Many Minmatar ships suffer from the original misguided attempts to make them split-weapon ships.I think that is why the Muninn has those two extra high slots. cyno + smartbomb (if your fleet is into that kind of kinky thing) or offline probe launcher, or a salvager I'm not suggesting they are not useful, I just think it would be a better ship with more mid slots. A 5-5-5 configuration would be sexy as hell.
Axel Greye High Velocity Heroes 49	Posted - 2012.04.17 06:49:00 - [23] - Quote there's nothing wrong with either the wolf nor claw, both make fantastic gang & solo ships. Their lack of mids is massively compensated for by (in the case of the wolf: Falloff and Damage) and (in the case of the claw: Speed and Tank). It doesn't take a genius to figure out how to fit/fly these two ships to play to their strengths. as for the Muninn, I would not say it's useless, it makes a nice arty sniper platform, but it is outperformed in every way by the Loki and/or gangs of Lokis. There are worse HACs one could complain about, like the Eagle.
Noisrevbus 111	Posted - 2012.04.17 14:01:00 - [24] - Quote Alara IonStorm wrote: I just don't get the Muninn. I mean a Fleet Artillery Boat with 7 High Slots and only 5 Guns... 4 Mids, 6 Lows like the Hurricane would seem to be a much better use of those slots. Or at least 6 High, 4 Mid, 5 Low. But 3 Mids on a Shield Tanker... It's like if the Zealot was 7 High, 3 Mid, 5 Low with 5 Guns. Does anyone know why they gave it so many Highs? Most likely a combination of Minmatar design-philosophy with utility highs and it being based off the Rupture that has a similar slot allocation (and primarily see the light of day as an armor-platform). Apart from that i think Cipher has already nailed the thread from post #2 onwards. Why are the lot of you trying to streamline perfectly functional ships? The AF has recently seen changes so they may still have some evaluation issues, but the Muninn has always been powerful within it's class and the slot allocation has always made sense in it's role as a sniper. The lowslots for fitting options, and since the mobile sniping trend for both mobility and tracking. Going over the different waves and incarnations of the ship even the utility slots have seen a useful, rich and varied use; that made sense. From missiles as anti-tackle point defense in combination with drones (and later tracking ammo changes) back in the day when HACs were still used to break through camps; to drone-enhancers when sniping got more stapled, but faction-fit Recons were not yet as common (and you'd assign drones to forward tackle; Dics and Ceptors, from your sniper spot), to the recent things Black Legion outlined in a recent Muninn thread, with a smartbomb firewall. Not that i see that as more useful than sniping BC still, as was claimed in that thread, but - within it's class - it's still undeniably one of the better and more thought-out creations. Compare that to ships that can't even fit their slots, or have the odd loose slot here and there that make no sense in combination with everything else it does. The Muninn's utility kinks always made some sense, with it's drones and weapons, and got utilized. The Muninn survived many incarnations, even if it's role is a bit in question today, after "those new ships".
Meditril T.R.I.A.D Defiant Legacy 55	Posted - 2012.04.17 14:09:00 - [25] - Quote The three named ships are indeed a bit strange because they are not straight forward in how to fit them. But they are great while still being not overpowered because of their strange slot layouts. So do not change them, just love them. Nobody said that every ship should be straight forward and easy to use and fit. With regards to power grid, Wolf has very high power grid but very low CPU which is a fair and limiting trade. I like excentric ships and fittings, they give spice to the game.
slam34 Solarise Flares Bringers of Death. 1	Posted - 2012.04.17 15:46:00 - [26] - Quote Meditril wrote: The three named ships are indeed a bit strange because they are not straight forward in how to fit them. But they are great while still being not overpowered because of their strange slot layouts. So do not change them, just love them. Nobody said that every ship should be straight forward and easy to use and fit. With regards to power grid, Wolf has very high power grid but very low CPU which is a fair and limiting trade. I like excentric ships and fittings, they give spice to the game. +1 I've flown all three and wouldn't change a thing. There is versatility in their eccentricities. I've probably flown the Claw more than any other ship. A couple times I even flew it well. But it is FUN to fly. And that trumps all other considerations. Those extra two high slots on the Munin are a gift. Neuts, drone range augmentors, cloaks, salvagers, tractors, missiles, the list goes on what you can throw on there depending on what you want to do. And those artys hit hard. Being able to fit more artys in those slots would just overpower it. (What? a minnie pilot says he doesn't need more guns?) OK, I admit I'd like another mid-slot on the Wolf, but it's a gun boat. Fit it and rig it like one. "Problem" solved.
TuxedoMask The Riot Formation Get Off My Lawn 12	Posted - 2012.04.17 16:39:00 - [27] - Quote Whats a Claw?
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School 173	Posted - 2012.04.20 04:36:00 - [28] - Quote TuxedoMask wrote: Whats a Claw? You get a BPC for one when you fail to invent a Stiletto
Lord Dravius Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2012.04.21 12:42:00 - [29] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: Stop min/maxing them for solo PvP and you will find they all have viable roles. People use AFs for stuff other than solo PvP?
Revii Lagoon The Foreign Legion Test Alliance Please Ignore 70	Posted - 2012.04.21 13:25:00 - [30] - Quote Muninn is kind of an odd ship, it's primary function is either to be a lackluster sniper HAC, or a ghetto armor hac. Due to the introduction of tier 3 BC's, sniper hac's really have fallen out of flavor by everyone except Black Legion. Tier 3's can do pretty much everything a sniper hac can do, but better. Except for killing frigates. And a zealot does everything the muninn can, but a whole lot better for ahacs. Armor hac's shine if used effectivly, however the zealot is far better than the muninn in every aspect for this type of fleet comp. The muninn seems to be lacking a role which it can fulfill effectively. I think the solution to change things up a bit is this, give it a 4th mid slot and possibly a bit of CPU and PG to accommodate the change. Reason being is this: With a 4th mid slot this would provide access to something the zealot cannot do as well for armor hac's: More EWar. AHAC gangs tend to run all sorts of EWar modules in their mid slots. Points, Projected ECCM, Tracking Disruptors, Sensor damps, hell even possibly remote sensor boosters are all fairly common to have on an ahac. Having an AB, TC, Tracking Disruptor and Projected ECCM would greatly increase the usefulness of a muninn in an ahac gang. As for a sniper hac gang, an additional mid slot would enable it to fit another TC, invuln, Sebo, shield extender ect. While at the same time not overshadowing the vaga or cane if someone chooses to fit a munnin out like a vaga or cane. Vaga's speed bonus makes it unique in it's own way, munnin is designed for more dps / alpha. But not quite as much dps as a cane. Plus the reduced capacitor amount on a muninn in comparision to a cane leaves it more vulnerable to neuts, as well as using them. Simply adding a 4th mid slot to the muninn could possibly give it unique edge over some of the other ships that fulfill similar roles.

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.