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CSM-CCP meeting 2.1

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Vuk Lau	Posted - 2009.01.12 08:41:00 - [1] Edited by: Vuk Lau on 12/01/2009 08:42:53 CSM-CCP meeting 2.1 This is the first meeting between CSM2 and CCP discussing the issues escalated by CSM2 and also the escalated but not-yet-discussed issues inherited from CSM1. The meeting will be multi-day face to face meeting at CCP HQ, Reykjavik, Iceland. Date: 15th January 2009 - 17th January 2009 Location: Reykjavik, CCP HQ Attendees: all CSM delegates and various CCP staff Regular agenda: List of escalated issues on the CSM Wiki The list is ordered by priority. Priority was decided by the average rating of the individual CSMs. Additional agenda items: Discussion of the moon material exploit with CCP's exploit buster team. Meeting minutes will be available after CSM has returned from Iceland and the compiled minutes have been approved by CCP.
Alekseyev Karrde Noir.	Posted - 2009.01.12 10:13:00 - [2] I'm interested.
T 2 Minmatar Tribal Core	Posted - 2009.01.13 08:32:00 - [3] Clad to see a follow-up meeting on open issues. And a great wiki to go with it! I'm personally very interested in issues regarding Factional Warfare. Glad to see That those issues are talked about too. However did not find the issue regarding Alliances (corporations in alliances) possibility to join FW - is this issue already decided upon? Overall great work CSM delegates - you are doing a valuable work! Best Regards, T 2
Omber Zombie	Posted - 2009.01.14 07:05:00 - [4] for anyone interested, I'm blogging the experience. Link is in the sig. Warning: I type a lot. ---------------------- My Blog
Issler Dainze	Posted - 2009.01.15 01:26:00 - [5] That would be the sig that I can't see? Issler
Omber Zombie	Posted - 2009.01.15 06:52:00 - [6] Originally by: Issler Dainze That would be the sig that I can't see? Issler turn sigs on then :p (omberzombie.com)
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2009.01.17 06:39:00 - [7] I'm all up in your blog atm. [WTS] Tech II Component BPO Sets
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2009.01.17 16:04:00 - [8] Originally by: Ray McCormack I'm all up in your blog atm. ^^ I am also cyber stalking Ozzie --
Omber Zombie	Posted - 2009.01.18 00:42:00 - [9] Edited by: Omber Zombie on 18/01/2009 00:43:13 woot, I have stalkers So, the meetings are over, the minutes are in to CCP to review, they have agreed to allow me to post the following TL;DR's tho (I hope they don't ban me) Thursday 15th January 2009 Informal meetings I.Moon Material Exploit Taskforce CCP discussed the Moon Material Exploit with CSM. This presentation was highly indepth and a lot of things were mentioned. A full devblog comprising what CSM was shown (and the answers to some questions during the meeting) will be posted at the end of January. II. QA New Testing Initiative Tanis used the CSM as a sounding board for a new idea for QA testing involving the players. Lots of things were discussed and the idea is still being formalised. More information about this will be given after more discussion between CSM & CCP. III. Apocrypha Overview CSM was given a tour of some of the parts of the next expansion, CCP wanted to change the way they worked on large expansions so they now have small cells working on separate things at the same time. While everything we saw was covered by our NDA, the general CSM consensus for what is coming is OMGWTFBBQ!!!111eleven!!111!! IV. GM Meeting The lead GM's (Guard & Grimmi) gave the CSM a general overview of GM team structure. The logs, they show nothing . Some GM stats to be made into a regular report is being considered. Reimbursement policies û may need explaining better and looking at possibly changing the basic policy. In general, they do not reimburse ships in fleet fights. They do check server logs for lag, also, every petition is replied to by a GM, no auto-responses, they just sometimes use the same text for similar petitions. CSM were asked for feedback on the reimbursement policy as well as alternate punishment for offenders. ---------------------- My Blog
Omber Zombie	Posted - 2009.01.18 00:52:00 - [10] Full minutes of the meetings will be available next week Formal Meeting Day 1 - Friday 16th January 2009 I.Incentivizing 0.0 & Environmental Effects http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Incentivizing_0.0 http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Environmental_Effects TL;DR: Risk v reward needs to be looked at and taken into account and a revamp of the sov system (like the concept system raised by CCP during the meeting). 0.0 should be both more personal and more exciting. This is a top priority for CCP and CSM for post-Apocrypha. II. General Discussion on Mining http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/General_Discussion_on_Mining TL;DR: Low sec mining needs to have a better reward vs risk. Mining as a career could be fleshed out. Mining needs to have more variable rewards. The option for active mining needs to be given without requiring players to use it. More interaction, more reward. III. Skill Training Queue mk2 http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Skill_Training_Queue_mk2 TL;DR û The training queue is high on the CCP priority list and will be worked on immediately. IV. Live Events http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Live_Events TL;DR CSM and CCP agree that more events would be great but it is a question of priority as well as trying to allow the sandbox experience of EVE to be effected by storylines as well as allowing players to affect the storylines. More 'monuments' will happen, live events are much harder to do, but they want to do it. There is no timeframe for implementation of this, but it has been added to the list. V. Drone Improvements & Drone Protocols http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Drone_Improvements TL;DR a way to reconnect to drones after disconnect will be looked at, but various options need to be tested and analysed before anything can be implemented. VI.(1)R&D Job Security, (2)Addition of ôView Contractsö to Context Menu, (3)UI Import/Export Overview Settings, (4)UI New Context Menu http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/R%26D_Job_Security http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Addition_of_%22View_Contracts%22_to_context_menu http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/UI_Import/Export_Overview_Settings http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/UI_New_Context_Menu TL;DR (1) CCP will send it to the dev team to review it if it is technically possible to add a new role for this. If it can be done, CCP agreed to implement it. (2) CCP said ok it will be done, but it will be limited depending on location due to regional filters. (3) CCP is aware of the request and would really like to implement it, they just can't give a timeframe of when this will happen. (4) CCP agreed that some of the context menu layout is unintuitive and is working on this as part of UI revisions. No timeframe specified. VII.Regular Revisit of Pre-Nerfed Features http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Regular_revisit_of_pre-nerfed_features TL;DR CCP agreed with the principle to review features regularly and will look into adding it to their development pipeline. VIII.Unanchoring Abandoned/Offline POS http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Unanchoring_abandoned%2C_offline_POSses TL;DR CSM and CCP did not come to a conclusion about this topic. The issue needs to be examined separately for 0.0 and low sec and the aim of the proposal needs to be clarified whether it is targets stealing some other active corp's assets or help in sovereignty warfare, or just serve as a clean-up process for abandoned space junk. IX.Colonies http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Colonies TL;DR CCP is very interested in the direction this would take EVE and asked CSM to come up with a list of how they envision things could work. More discussion is needed but both CCP & CSM are excited about where this could go. continued in next post... ---------------------- My Blog
Omber Zombie	Posted - 2009.01.18 00:52:00 - [11] Edited by: Omber Zombie on 18/01/2009 00:55:51 X.Factional Warfare û Focus & Goals http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Factional_Warfare_-_Focus_and_Goals TL;DR CCP agrees that generally there are issues with Faction Warfare and a lack of tangible rewards and endeavour to look into it. XI.Standing Recovery http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Standing_Recovery TL;DR CCP is aware of these problems and some solutions are being looked at. XII.Modifiable Corporation Orders http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Modifiable_Corporation_Orders TL;DR CCP said it's possible to implement but no timeframe has been specified. XII.Probe Communication http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Probe_Communication This is currently under review by CCP, they are aware of the issue. XIII.Factional Warfare û Complex Spawning http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Factional_Warfare_-_Complex_Spawning This is currently under review by CCP, they are aware of the issue. XIV.Alliance Logos http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Alliance_Logos TL;DR CCP admits fault here and have fixed the issue. ---------------------- My Blog
Omber Zombie	Posted - 2009.01.18 00:53:00 - [12] held ---------------------- My Blog
Omber Zombie	Posted - 2009.01.18 00:53:00 - [13] held ---------------------- My Blog
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2009.01.18 07:29:00 - [14] lazy aussie git....couldnt you of linkified? :P Seriously, thanks Ozzie, for getting this up quick. I look forward to the predigested minutes that CCP allows through the filters. --
Alekseyev Karrde Noir.	Posted - 2009.01.18 11:24:00 - [15] Good snapshot Omber. --- Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2009.01.18 13:01:00 - [16] I fail to see mention of batch job installation. [WTS] Tech II Component BPO Sets
Issler Dainze	Posted - 2009.01.18 23:26:00 - [17] So I wanted to take a minute to share my thoughts on the 2nd CSM meeting. I'm still in Iceland, still suffering from time zone shock and a result I am not going to say everything I hope to share in this first post. Impressions of the second CSM. You have elected a very diverse set of players that demonstrated a mature commitment to making Eve a better place. Everyone in this CSM struck me as passionate and reasoned in their views of Eve. We all seemed to work effectively together with both other members of the CSM as well as CCP. Our interactions with CCP were very much as partners instead of adversaries. I believe as a result the meeting was very effective. Let me start with the POS exploit. CCP took this VERY seriously. They will soon share all the details anyone could ever want with the exception of naming, which is against their policy (and that policy was explained and makes very good sense). I was very impressed with the effort they put into this and the new process they intend to add to make sure something like this is going to be less likely in the future. Other CSM topics. Everyone should understand that the realities of software engineering result in feature roadmaps that may not support immediate reactions to opportunities to change features. Every issue that we raised was considered and will have positive effects on the Eve we all experience at some time in the future. When these effects are enjoyed depends on a lot of factors that aren't always easy to understand. For example a particular idea my be delayed because the pieces of code that need to be added or changed also related to another 5 features. So as a result those features may be delayed to allow the parts of the team best able to create the changes to be able to get all the related changes in together. The summary though is everything we discussed will be part of CCP's planning going forward. If not as a specific "we did this feature exactly like suggested" but as a "your ideas definitely helped us address the specific issue you raised" fashion. CCP in general (software development and test). My background is software engineering. What I learned was that CCP began as a very "organic" development organization. They now see that more "rigor" in process is key to future success. I learned that they are making serious commitments to adopt the processes that lead to "best in class" software organizations. I saw a commitment to everything I would have considered key to creating a great software development organization. CCP in general (game design). Love what I learned! They get it, more often than not they had clearly already been thinking about the issues we raised. In many cases they asked us for reactions to some of their ideas. I also learned that there are a broad range of focus within the groups that influence design. There are folks that love the pvp aspects but there were industrialist and miners as well! All I can say is I met a group of people that I believe will continue to amaze me with the experiences they will create. CCP in general (CSM support). CCP has massive commitment to the CSM. They believe the CSM can be a key part of making Eve something very unusual and successful. You definitely should believe the CSM is Being listened to. On that note please continue to hold us accountable to you as the member base. In a very real way we are your voice! cont.
Issler Dainze	Posted - 2009.01.18 23:28:00 - [18] Edited by: Issler Dainze on 18/01/2009 23:29:01 Initial comments pt2 Summary. I wasn't really sure what to expect. Looking at the last CSM I was worried that the time could have been contentious and unproductive. I was happily surprised. I think the current CSM worked very effectively, represented a broad ranges of views in a mature fashion and that we were listened to by CCP. This is a "learn as you go" process and will continue to improve. And that finally the ultimate sucess of the CSM is not so much the CSM or CCP but the pilots of Eve becoming supportive and involved in this unique political process. So as I've been known to say "stuffs getting better, stuffs getting batter every day!" Issler
Vuk Lau	Posted - 2009.01.18 23:33:00 - [19] I really dont want to sound like a suckup , but I enjoyed working both with all my coleagues from CSM aswell as with CCP personel. Meetings were highly constructive and productive and I am looking forward for making EVE better place for all of us
Vuk Lau	Posted - 2009.01.18 23:37:00 - [20] Also special props for Omber Zombie for taking minutes with fu..ed up hand.
Tusko Hopkins	Posted - 2009.01.19 02:12:00 - [21] I can't do anything but completely agree with Issler. Her words are teh truth. The CSM team is great. Despite us being from completely different gameplay areas, we managed to agree in almost every single issue and showed a consistent front towards CCP. CCP seemed to be taking us very seriously. They were well prepared for the discussion, they did their best bringing the most related CCP devs to the discussions, so the CCP staff was rotating throughout the meetings. The devs really seemed to have a clue about the problems we were raising and often prepared powerpoint presentations or statistical data regarding the details of the problem or the way they think things should be. They were also very open, answered all our questions, except the few involving character names. As for the issues, my general feeling was that they kind of know what's going on and do have plans to fix them, question is only when they get time to do it. As the issues were clear to them, most of the effects we were having on CCP was getting the problems higher on their priority list. It is interesting to hear their comments on the problems: instead of patching the surface, they usually want to go for the core of the problem to eliminate it properly. They have some really, really good ideas and I can only hope that they implement them ASAP. CSM representative CSM candidate for 2nd cycle Campaign website http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameb
URUS FORGE Caldari THE TRUST INCORPORATED	Posted - 2009.01.19 15:16:00 - [22] I am eagerly awaiting the responses about the exploit. CCP has a chance here to gain back some credability. I appreciate CSMs efforts and representation of the players. I read the initial grilling you guys gave on the exploit. Keep it up! Quote: A tragic situation exists precisely when virtue does not triumph but when it is still felt that man is nobler than the forces which destroy him. - George Orwell
Saralle Zhukov Minmatar Win Tech	Posted - 2009.01.20 09:10:00 - [23] Originally by: Omber Zombie Full minutes of the meetings will be available next week Formal Meeting Day 1 - Friday 16th January 2009 ..... III. Skill Training Queue mk2 http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Skill_Training_Queue_mk2 TL;DR û The training queue is high on the CCP priority list and will be worked on immediately. ..... continued in next post... DUDE please don't let them backburner this any longer. CCP needs to come thru on this one, it is long overdue. Thanks to the whole CSM for raising this issue, keep the fire going guys, don't give up on the skill queue!!!!
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.01.20 09:23:00 - [24] Originally by: Saralle Zhukov Originally by: Omber Zombie Full minutes of the meetings will be available next week Formal Meeting Day 1 - Friday 16th January 2009 ..... III. Skill Training Queue mk2 http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Skill_Training_Queue_mk2 TL;DR û The training queue is high on the CCP priority list and will be worked on immediately. ..... continued in next post... DUDE please don't let them backburner this any longer. CCP needs to come thru on this one, it is long overdue. Thanks to the whole CSM for raising this issue, keep the fire going guys, don't give up on the skill queue!!!! We aim to please. We are just as eager for this feature as you. So stay tuned
Ralitge boyter Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.20 11:51:00 - [25] It sounds really good and I am looking very much forward to see what EVE is like 2 years from now. I mean so far EVE has changed since it was first released but most of those changes came from CCP. Now that the community has a real option to not just suggest but also help prioritize and give feed back on ideas and suggest improvements I think that EVE will be a more balanced universe then it already is because in the end a few hundred people cannot ever hope to identify and correctly prioritize the needs of the thousands of people playing EVE. ------------------------------------------- Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me.
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2009.01.20 12:24:00 - [26] Did OZ get to see a doctor? [WTS] Tech II Component BPO Sets
Kuranta Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.20 13:50:00 - [27] Thanks for all the work, guys.
Omber Zombie	Posted - 2009.01.20 15:26:00 - [28] see a doctor? I saw Dr. Eyjo :) I may have alcohol poisoning right now from drinking with Darius and a couple of devs last night tho... REYKA VODKA 4TMFW ---------------------- My Blog
Z800XV	Posted - 2009.01.20 20:52:00 - [29] nice work guys, keep it real.
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2009.01.21 16:01:00 - [30] Originally by: Omber Zombie see a doctor? Yeah, for that growth on your chin. [WTS] Tech II Component BPO Sets

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