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Eschiava Q
Minmatar
Blood Money Bootcamp
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Posted - 2009.01.13 15:24:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Eschiava Q on 13/01/2009 15:26:27
Edited by: Eschiava Q on 13/01/2009 15:25:41
 Originally by: Dennmoth Ferdier
Originally by: Marchocias
Ok. Either there is no such thing as griefing or here IS such a thing as griefing, but it is the creation of the person who sees themselves as a victim of it, and not of the accused perpetrator.
Either way, it is an illusion.
If people just didn't get in a strop about it, then it would "magically" disappear.
And all the bad things in the world would be fine, all laws would be needless and real life would be just a game :)
You really need to separate EVE, a game, from real life. They are not the same!
I play EVE because I enjoy the challenge. I love low sec and the contests that can occur there at any time. Sometimes I (or my gang) attack others, sometimes I (or we) are attacked. Grief is not the goal, presenting or meeting a challenge is. Note that if you (anybody) are in low sec then I consider that you have deemed yourself ready to challenge or be challenged and are therefore a legitimate target.
Please note, I would never consider going into a back alley with some friends and a variety of weapons to see who we could kill. The very idea is morally repugnant to me, not to mention it is against the law and there is a fair chance we would be seriously injured and/or killed.
Trying to draw some sort of corellation between a game and real life is just silly IMO, as demonstrated by the example given.
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PenisTugger
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Posted - 2009.01.13 15:26:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Dennmoth Ferdier
Originally by: Marchocias
it is an illusion.
.
quote]
Wot this is a decent post, that is a good illusion |
Malusae
Caldari
House CHOAM
Terrebellum
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Posted - 2009.01.13 15:29:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Malusae on 13/01/2009 15:29:07
I don't think you are greifing per say. Greifing is typically seen as using game mechanics to do something unintended. Pirating is intended, even in it's most malicious forms.
But, it does take a certain individual to go about doing those malicious things. So I don't think there is a seperation of what you do for pirating and who you are.
You are the pirate. You may not be in real life, but some part of you is.
Hell, better in game then in real life right? |
Dennmoth Ferdier
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Posted - 2009.01.13 15:37:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Dennmoth Ferdier on 13/01/2009 15:37:55
Originally by: Eschiava Q
You really need to separate EVE, a game, from real life. They are not the same!
I play EVE because I enjoy the challenge. I love low sec and the contests that can occur there at any time. Sometimes I (or my gang) attack others, sometimes I (or we) are attacked. Grief is not the goal, presenting or meeting a challenge is. Note that if you (anybody) are in low sec then I consider that you have deemed yourself ready to challenge or be challenged and are therefore a legitimate target.
Please note, I would never consider going into a back alley with some friends and a variety of weapons to see who we could kill. The very idea is morally repugnant to me, not to mention it is against the law and there is a fair chance we would be seriously injured and/or killed.
Trying to draw some sort of corellation between a game and real life is just silly IMO, as demonstrated by the example given.
You are kind of still missing my point though.
Think about it without the examples. Don't think about it as killing someone in eve, or in real life. Think about causing someone grief.
I know you already said you don't do it for the sake of tears, but if you did, consider this. You PvP because it's funny when the people you kill get angry and frustrated, and there's no other reason. You cause someone grief in real life, because it's funny the same way.
Now consider, what is eve in the middle, in between you sitting on your office chair, and the guy you just killed sitting on an office chair. You did something to see someone get angry just for the fun of it. The victim got angry just as you intended.
It doesn't have to be about killing, or crimes at all. It's about you doing something for the reason of seeing someone else suffer.
The game in the middle, no matter what fantasy world it describes, is still interaction between two people sitting on their chairs in real life.
Does this make it a bit more clear at all?
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Eschiava Q
Minmatar
Blood Money Bootcamp
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Posted - 2009.01.13 16:01:00 -
[65]
Yes, that makes your point more clear, especially since you have also refrained from using examples from real life. I guess it was your references to RL that was confusing me.
But for your argument to mean anything at all, it can only apply to individuals wh play specifically for the pain they cause to others.
But, even if you limit it to such individuals, it is the reaction of the "victim" that is being referred to by the OP. If the victim didn't get mad at losing his stuff, didn't take offense, then there is no grief, no matter the intent of the attacker.
So really, if there is griefing in the game, it is only by the permission of the one being griefed. |
Nexus Kinnon
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2009.01.13 18:02:00 -
[66]
your mother |
Darkeen
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.14 00:59:00 -
[67]
Originally by: MooKids
I take offense to this post.
I dont really, but since OP started it, heck, I'll take offence too!
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Bo'Tox
Amarr
Arkor Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.14 01:08:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Flossing
The funniest thing is, you seem very annoyed that people get annoyed.
Also the fact you are annoyed, at people who get annoyed, because you go out to annoy them is almost annoying.
This.
PVP'er Tears make me laugh more than carebear tears...
(And this coming from an acknolwedged carebear...) LOL!  |
Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2009.01.14 08:33:00 -
[69]
Point to the PVPer tears please.
This is a philosophical discussion about the concept of greifing; there are no tears here. There is merely a request for people to accept that they will get blown up, whether they like it or not, and to take it on the chin rather than getting all childish about it. |
Nexus Kinnon
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2009.01.14 08:49:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
your mother
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Kaaching
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Posted - 2009.01.15 11:14:00 -
[71]
f**k every one of you!!1!  |
Lord Windu
Echelon Holdings
Echelon.
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Posted - 2009.01.15 11:25:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Kaaching
f**k every one of you!!1!
asl ? |
Daoi Sith
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:30:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Marchocias
<rant>
Eve is a game whereby it seems rather easy to take offense. You only have to play the game, using published game mechanics, in order to be accused of "griefing".
I put it to you that there is NO SUCH THING as griefing.
The fact is (and most of the human race would be naively likely to disagree with me here), that it is IMPOSSIBLE to simply cause offense; for offense to occur, it requires an victim to actively take offense.
If the victim simply doesn't take offense, then there is none caused.
This simple shift in the perception of offense give-and-take can lead you only to the conclusion that there is no such thing as griefing. OR, if there IS, then the griefers are the victims themselves for getting worked up about it.
Essentially, this post is aimed at a certain class of players ('carebears' for want of a better word):
...the kind of person who follows the "if you play a nasty theiving pirate s****character in game, then you must be s****in real life" line of reasoning
...the kind of person who would accuse me of being a bastard in real life, just because I think its very funny that I've annoyed you in game.
Please remember... it IS funny when you die, and if you think that it isn't, well, that just makes it EVEN FUNNIER. If you don't understand that, then why on earth are you playing Eve?
</rant>
<signed> |
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