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Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2009.01.12 14:57:00 -
[1]
<rant>
Eve is a game whereby it seems rather easy to take offense. You only have to play the game, using published game mechanics, in order to be accused of "griefing".
I put it to you that there is NO SUCH THING as griefing.
The fact is (and most of the human race would be naively likely to disagree with me here), that it is IMPOSSIBLE to simply cause offense; for offense to occur, it requires an victim to actively take offense.
If the victim simply doesn't take offense, then there is none caused.
This simple shift in the perception of offense give-and-take can lead you only to the conclusion that there is no such thing as griefing. OR, if there IS, then the griefers are the victims themselves for getting worked up about it.
Essentially, this post is aimed at a certain class of players ('carebears' for want of a better word):
...the kind of person who follows the "if you play a nasty theiving pirate s****character in game, then you must be s****in real life" line of reasoning
...the kind of person who would accuse me of being a bastard in real life, just because I think its very funny that I've annoyed you in game.
Please remember... it IS funny when you die, and if you think that it isn't, well, that just makes it EVEN FUNNIER. If you don't understand that, then why on earth are you playing Eve?
</rant>
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MooKids
Caldari
Dark Echo Engineering
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Posted - 2009.01.12 15:14:00 -
[2]
I take offense to this post. |
Eschiava Q
Minmatar
Blood Money Bootcamp
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Posted - 2009.01.12 15:17:00 -
[3]
I'm one of those people who take things much too seriously when I die.
I remember a couple of days ago I was flying around lowsec in a gang and we were doing our best to kill other players. I got jumped by a blackbird and an intercepter while flying a rifter. My rifter went down faster than I would have believed and I could do nothing about it.
When my ship popped I said, "Oh well".
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Salliene
Gallente
Trinity Acquisitions
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Posted - 2009.01.12 15:32:00 -
[4]
I get offended at myself when I get popped. Offended by how stupid I get when boredom sets in or when it is late at night and I want do "just one more" thing before going to bed. The number of times I have lost hours trying to save minutes is beyond reason 
I've never been mad at another player who killed my ship. The only time I really get offended in EVE is when I see racism going on in the chat channels.
One Girls Journey through the EVE Universe |
Grek Forto
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.01.12 15:49:00 -
[5]
WoW is tha...Oh wait.
Good post |
Concorduck
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.12 15:50:00 -
[6]
your tags are wrong
<html>
<head></head>
<body>
<style type="rant">
</style>
</body>
</html> |
Kaya Valda
Caldari
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2009.01.12 16:01:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Marchocias
<rant>
Eve is a game whereby it seems rather easy to take offense. You only have to play the game, using published game mechanics, in order to be accused of "griefing".
I put it to you that there is NO SUCH THING as griefing.
The fact is (and most of the human race would be naively likely to disagree with me here), that it is IMPOSSIBLE to simply cause offense; for offense to occur, it requires an victim to actively take offense.
If the victim simply doesn't take offense, then there is none caused.
This simple shift in the perception of offense give-and-take can lead you only to the conclusion that there is no such thing as griefing. OR, if there IS, then the griefers are the victims themselves for getting worked up about it.
Essentially, this post is aimed at a certain class of players ('carebears' for want of a better word):
...the kind of person who follows the "if you play a nasty theiving pirate s****character in game, then you must be s****in real life" line of reasoning
...the kind of person who would accuse me of being a bastard in real life, just because I think its very funny that I've annoyed you in game.
Please remember... it IS funny when you die, and if you think that it isn't, well, that just makes it EVEN FUNNIER. If you don't understand that, then why on earth are you playing Eve?
</rant>
**** off!
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Neo-Spartans Recruiting
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FatFreddy
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Posted - 2009.01.12 16:33:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Salliene
I get offended at myself when I get popped. Offended by how stupid I get when boredom sets in or when it is late at night and I want do "just one more" thing before going to bed. The number of times I have lost hours trying to save minutes is beyond reason
This.
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Mithos Victus
Aurelius Federation
Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.12 16:40:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Mithos Victus on 12/01/2009 16:44:58
Originally by: Marchocias
just because I think its very funny that I've annoyed you in game.
Please remember... it IS funny when you die, and if you think that it isn't, well, that just makes it EVEN FUNNIER. If you don't understand that, then why on earth are you playing Eve?
You want to amuse yourself by annoying people and then tell them not to get annoyed?
Please, do explain. 
Let us theorize. You get your jollies from annoying others in the game. Almost a majority (common belief is around 50%) of the EVE player base hugs Empire. We have all seen or heard from first hand accounts that the most commercially successful MMO in history has been moving more and more towards catering to a casual player base. You can almost assume that other MMO developers will follow suite. Why would they not follow the money trail? They are a commercial enterprise after all.
So let us assume that CCP continues to implement more and more changes to restrict what can be considered excessive competitiveness, aka griefing for some, so that the casual players continue to flock to EVE in droves and line CCP's wallet.
Let us assume that this restricts your ability to be excessively competitive against people who otherwise do not actively participate or attempt to put themselves in situations where they are frequently immersed in the PvP competiveness of EVE (through wars and low or null security space).
Now, let us assume that your main activities in game rely on this excessive competition against relatively ineffectual opponents. Are you going to be upset that you can no longer rely on that competition anymore? By your own logic, you are only at odds with something if you choose to be. So let us assume to the extreme that CCP virtually eliminates excessive competitiveness in Empire space. What say you then?
After all, you're only a victim if you think you are... right?
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Kirra Liu
Gemini Industries Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.12 16:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Salliene
I get offended at myself when I get popped. Offended by how stupid I get when boredom sets in
I am exactly the same, I don't get offended by other players, it's always at myself when I do something really stupid like taking the obvious bait and then get jumped by a gang, all because I really wanted to blow some **** up before I log. |
Rivur'Tam
the united
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Posted - 2009.01.12 16:51:00 -
[11]
i'm a basterd in game and out i act no differnently in eve or in rl i have no fantasy to fufil
did u see how i fuked over them morans in the tanker |
Eschiava Q
Minmatar
Blood Money Bootcamp
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Posted - 2009.01.12 17:00:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Eschiava Q on 12/01/2009 16:59:46
Originally by: Mithos Victus
Edited by: Mithos Victus on 12/01/2009 16:46:11
Originally by: Marchocias
just because I think its very funny that I've annoyed you in game.
Please remember... it IS funny when you die, and if you think that it isn't, well, that just makes it EVEN FUNNIER. If you don't understand that, then why on earth are you playing Eve?
(a plethora of assumptions)
'nuff said
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Takamura San
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Posted - 2009.01.12 17:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Marchocias
<rant>
I put it to you that there is NO SUCH THING as griefing.
The fact is (and most of the human race would be naively likely to disagree with me here), that it is IMPOSSIBLE to simply cause offense; for offense to occur, it requires an victim to actively take offense.
If the victim simply doesn't take offense, then there is none caused.
nullthis is just another way of saying you cannot put together a logical train of thought. some behaviours are inherently offensive regardless of the victim's reaction or lack thereof. it's rather like saying that a frozen boot to the nards isn't painful unless the recipient chooses for it to be so.null
...the kind of person who follows the "if you play a nasty theiving pirate s****character in game, then you must be s****in real life" line of reasoning
...the kind of person who would accuse me of being a bastard in real life, just because I think its very funny that I've annoyed you in game.
null while it's not always true it's certainly the way to bet.null
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Mithos Victus
Aurelius Federation
Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.12 17:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Eschiava Q
'nuff said
Modus Tollens
Obviously the assumptions do not have to be tautological for the argument to be proven.
Or did you not get the memo? |
Eudamidas
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.12 17:22:00 -
[15]
OH |
Dominatus Crispus
Gallente
Nation of Muppets
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Posted - 2009.01.12 17:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Marchocias
Please remember... it IS funny when you die, and if you think that it isn't, well, that just makes it EVEN FUNNIER.
 this needs to be quoted somewhere...  |
Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.01.12 17:35:00 -
[17]
THIS WILL BE DEALT WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
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Bai ZongTong
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2009.01.12 17:42:00 -
[18]
OMG IVE NEVER FELT THIS OFFENDED BEFORE  
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.12 17:43:00 -
[19]
When in low sec, you will die. Its a question of when, not if :).
I accept that, and I fly in low sec killing other ships I see fit :).
Some of them laugh about it, others spimply loose it :P
Our newest corp member is a guy I kileld in low sec, he turned out tp be a cool guy, and we let him in our corp. Some other just keeps calling us names and talk in local like they where drunk :P (also sometimes in Russian, like I would understand that :P)
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Eschiava Q
Minmatar
Blood Money Bootcamp
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Posted - 2009.01.12 18:39:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mithos Victus
Originally by: Eschiava Q
'nuff said
Modus Tollens
Obviously the assumptions do not have to be tautological for the argument to be proven.
Or did you not get the memo?
Whatever you say bud, but he still hasn't proven anything other than he loves to make assumptions. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Black Legion.
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Posted - 2009.01.12 18:44:00 -
[21]
I'm offended by your faces.
CCP, please hand out free hoods, we need it, badly. |
Mithos Victus
Aurelius Federation
Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:26:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Eschiava Q
Whatever you say bud, but he still hasn't proven anything other than he loves to make assumptions.
Just like you.
_______________________________________________
[...a lion lurking in the plain] |
Nephilius
Caldari
Grey Legionaires
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:44:00 -
[23]
Ok.
On a lighter note, I did take the time to laugh excessively at some gate gankers after they podded me. For some reason, when you laugh at them, they don't say a whole lot.
Been a victim of a gate gank before, and got all upset then. So there was a definite difference in the way I was responded to when I did somethig stupid and ranted about it versus giggling like a mad clown and complimented my opponent for wasting my Slasher posthaste and offering up that they should get a big ship to haul away the massive amounts of loot derived from it.
Honestly, I was just trying to help them make some cha-ching. |
Flossing
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:55:00 -
[24]
The funniest thing is, you seem very annoyed that people get annoyed.
Also the fact you are annoyed, at people who get annoyed, because you go out to annoy them is almost annoying. |
Flossing
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:58:00 -
[25]
The funniest thing is, you seem very annoyed that people get annoyed.
Also the fact you are annoyed, at people who get annoyed, because you go out to annoy them is almost annoying. |
Goyda
Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2009.01.12 20:05:00 -
[26]
Laughing at me after popping someone, doesn't bother me, tears, really make the pirate world go round. a GF in local will earn you some respect. Saying nothing, well that's a ****er. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
MasterBlasters Inc.
CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2009.01.12 20:17:00 -
[27]
I love it when the smack talk goes local... then I act like I don't know what he's talking about 
----------------------
Putting the sensual in nonconsensual
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Gregor Vernof
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.01.12 20:22:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
When in EVE, you will die. Its a question of when, not if :)....
Excellent points, just had to fix one small part of your post....
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Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2009.01.12 20:26:00 -
[29]
Originally by: MooKids
I take offense to this post.
This!
Originally by: Mithos Victus
You want to amuse yourself by annoying people and then tell them not to get annoyed?
No, I amuse myself by playing the game. At times it involves me dying... at times it involves others dying. Either way it is fun. If someone else dies and doesn't enjoy it, and then decides to have a strop in local, I consider that to be an "Amusement Bonus(tm)".
Not that I agree with your assumptions, but hypothetically allowing them to be the case:
Originally by: Mithos Victus
Are you going to be upset that you can no longer rely on that competition anymore?
Why should anyone be upset about a game?
Originally by: Mithos Victus
Let us assume to the extreme that CCP virtually eliminates excessive competitiveness in Empire space. What say you then?
Eve is a sandbox; one does what one can. If bored, one quits.
Originally by: Mithos Victus
After all, you're only a victim if you think you are... right?
A misinference of my hypothesis, irrelevant, however, since don't think I'm capable of caring strongly enough about Eve to feel victimised.
Don't take me wrong, I wouldn't set out specifically to cause someone else to have a bad day. However, if I'd "Interacted Negatively" with someones character, and then found they'd got in a big huff about it, I'd find that funny. Because it is. It doesn't matter if that means randomly ganking a mission runner, or gate camping in lo-sec, or simple hi-sec wardeccing; if they don't see the funny side, that is itself very funny, and their own fault.
=]
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Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa*coughcough*aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrr!! |
Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2009.01.12 20:30:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Flossing
The funniest thing is, you seem very annoyed that people get annoyed.
Also the fact you are annoyed, at people who get annoyed, because you go out to annoy them is almost annoying.
I'm not annoyed really... I'm more philosophical. However, my philosophical style follows the conventional Angered Rant approach. I assure you, this fellow remains internally congenial. I like your sentence structure, by the way... most pleasing.
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Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa*coughcough*aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrr!! |
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