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Dear CCP - Apocrypha = Store Fronts??

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.01.13 04:30:00 - [31] Contracts don't work for a lot of things. my argument for getting storefront is simple. My corp has a buying price on minerals in corp. SO they always pay us the same for it, same goes with building ships and stuff. So when we bring in a ton of minerals we have to place them in a can, and send an email or set up a contract to the buyer, who then needs to log on and go to the corp assest, and then pay us for the minerals. This would be much simpler if I could open the corp store and just sell to my corp for a set price.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2009.01.13 05:04:00 - [32] Edited by: Treelox on 13/01/2009 05:05:37 I for one am glad that Storefronts have been taken off the table for now. The way most of you want/desire/need storefronts to work would degrade our current anonymous broker system market. I for one think that eve would be a dull place with out that facet of market pvp being what it currently is. --edit changed a word to avoid a really bad pun
Dal Thrax Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.13 05:17:00 - [33] Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Cailais Ah ok. Could / can you elaborate a bit further? I think a few people would be interested - ie something along the lines of: a) Its a feature we want, but we want to mesh it in with ambulation. b) We thought we liked it as a feature, but now we don't. It was initially removed due to implementation issues. In the post-mortem we determined that the goals of the feature had been unclear and once we had clarified the goals and how storefronts should be distinguished from the market and from the contract system then we had fairly different design ideas. Originally by: Cailais Thanks again for the swift reply -dont you guys sleep?? No, we don't. Seemed perfectly obvious to me,storefronts = a better way to sell to the corp then contracts (where for example to sell a fit ship you'd have to sell the ship with fittings, while with a storefront a corp member could buy ship then buy fitting separate). I think the real reason for storefronts demise is that CCP does not want closed markets.
Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2009.01.13 05:34:00 - [34] Originally by: Treelox Edited by: Treelox on 13/01/2009 05:05:37 I for one am glad that Storefronts have been taken off the table for now. The way most of you want/desire/need storefronts to work would degrade our current anonymous broker system market. I for one think that eve would be a dull place with out that facet of market pvp being what it currently is. I disagree on your thought that it would make market pvp dull; it would mean you might have to build your own/corp's reputation as a seller. There is something to be said for a store you can go to and normally find what you are looking for prepackaged to be useful. This is what makes hubs popular in the first place; it isn't that they are necessarily the cheapest (many times not) but that you can buy everything in one place. Add to the fact that your name is now attached to your product without even selling it and this opens up in space pvp wardecs for moving in on someone else's turf. The anonymous market removes consequences from sale and purchase of goods. A good store might not alone corporate enemies to buy from you, while giving your friends discounts and access to better products.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.01.13 06:12:00 - [35] Originally by: Hungo Im sorry mate but you are a ****ing tool, its because of Arragont ignorant fools like you the CSM is useless and used for its own gain, who the hell are you to speak to CCP Game Master in a tone like that? Speaking down to a GM like he is nothing. You disgust me Having sat right across from CCP Explorer, who isn't a GM but director of software, I think it's perfectly reasonable that I tell him what I think. I would be more of a tool to just say "Hey CCP, that's cool, just screw with the player-base and don't give a word on what actually happened".
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.13 06:59:00 - [36] Originally by: Dex Nederland Originally by: Treelox Edited by: Treelox on 13/01/2009 05:05:37 I for one am glad that Storefronts have been taken off the table for now. The way most of you want/desire/need storefronts to work would degrade our current anonymous broker system market. I for one think that eve would be a dull place with out that facet of market pvp being what it currently is. I disagree on your thought that it would make market pvp dull; it would mean you might have to build your own/corp's reputation as a seller. There is something to be said for a store you can go to and normally find what you are looking for prepackaged to be useful. This is what makes hubs popular in the first place; it isn't that they are necessarily the cheapest (many times not) but that you can buy everything in one place. Add to the fact that your name is now attached to your product without even selling it and this opens up in space pvp wardecs for moving in on someone else's turf. The anonymous market removes consequences from sale and purchase of goods. A good store might not alone corporate enemies to buy from you, while giving your friends discounts and access to better products. How will this not be like Walmart moving into a small town and running all the mom and pops out of business?
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.13 08:58:00 - [37] Originally by: LaVista Vista Having sat right across from CCP Explorer, who isn't a GM but director of software, I think it's perfectly reasonable that I tell him what I think. I would be more of a tool to just say "Hey CCP, that's cool, just screw with the player-base and don't give a word on what actually happened". Have to say though, not very political CSM behavior. CSM should act as the buffer AND ambassadors of our community, you should refrain from telling a dev off for answering. Added questions, requests for definitions etc, sure, that's the job partly, but not a, in essence, "you suck" posting. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Enterprises	Posted - 2009.01.13 11:07:00 - [38] Originally by: Qordel How will this not be like Walmart moving into a small town and running all the mom and pops out of business? honey! over here! check this out... 5 wolfs for 20million isk AND they threw in a free fitting for the first one! go get another cart. we're stocking up on these --------- seriously, not that i'm much of a market/producer, but i was rather intrigued at the idea of storefronts. hard to believe they not only put it on the back burner this long, but they can't even decide if they are actively working on it or not.
Ambo State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.01.13 11:35:00 - [39] Tbh, I thought the implementation of storefronts that was briefly on Sisi was a solution looking for a problem. I think it's very good that CCP have decided to go back to the drawing board an concentrate on the requirements and use of such a feature rather than just slapping it in half-arsed. Admittedly, it's a bit of a shame that it won't be in M10, but seriously, there is an absolute ton of stuff in there that is far more interesting imo.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.13 11:54:00 - [40] I'd like the ability to ban my enemies from buying my stuff whilst giving discounts to my friends. If they can put that sort of functionality into Storefronts, I'll be a happy bunny. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
SentryRaven KIA Corp	Posted - 2009.01.13 12:05:00 - [41] Originally by: Rodj Blake I'd like the ability to ban my enemies from buying my stuff whilst giving discounts to my friends. If they can put that sort of functionality into Storefronts, I'll be a happy bunny. I'd pretty much like to see the feature to limit market usage by standings, if you own the station. -------- EBANK Forum Manager
Harlequ1n The Hegemonising Swarm	Posted - 2009.01.13 12:05:00 - [42] The problem is the current market is stale and lacks any way to 'market' your goods. Its just a 0.1 isk grind to get the sales. Coupled with a clunky contract system, which while an improvement over the old escrow, still has issues, something could do with changing. An idea I had some time ago for shops would split the market, leaving the market we know currently to just have commodities, mins, components, reactions, trade goods, whilst all mods, ships and other 'finished' items would be sold through a version of a store front. An advertising mechanic could be introduced to allow people to 'pitch their wares' with additional skills to allow these adverts to be viewed at varying distances from the sell point (system, 1 jump, 5 jumps etc), this would (hopefully) reduce the current contract spamming we see in trade hubs, and may allow stores to be set up at a distance. Perhaps this would also allow people to specialise in certain products; 'Harlequ1n's World of Autocannons'? or build up reputations and maybe customer loyalty, especially if this was partnered with a discount system, maybe linked to standings? All in all, currently market PVP is dreadfully dull, I feel this could shake things up a little. Thoughts anyone? Originally by: Gaven Blands Some of this may be true. Some might be a complete fabrication. Other parts may be interprative. But whatever the case it's all badly written in a hurry.
Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2009.01.13 13:58:00 - [43] Originally by: Qordel How will this not be like Walmart moving into a small town and running all the mom and pops out of business? Because right now you can't tell the difference between the Walmarts and the "Mom & Pop" businesses. The majority of the consumer market purchases at the lowest price in the nearest mini-mall (trade hub), all they know is that it is the lowest price, within a range of their location. Hubs will likely have the Walmarts; but "Mom & Pop"s can supply a more unique good (pre-packaged ships with modules for example) in more austere locations.. There is also the "minimum" profitable price where it wouldn't be more profitable to melt it down and use/sell the minerals.?
Huberek Morchu	Posted - 2009.01.13 14:43:00 - [44] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Hungo Im sorry mate but you are a ****ing tool, its because of Arragont ignorant fools like you the CSM is useless and used for its own gain, who the hell are you to speak to CCP Game Master in a tone like that? Speaking down to a GM like he is nothing. You disgust me Having sat right across from CCP Explorer, who isn't a GM but director of software, I think it's perfectly reasonable that I tell him what I think. I would be more of a tool to just say "Hey CCP, that's cool, just screw with the player-base and don't give a word on what actually happened". Maybe we could stick to the topic. I happy to see Explorer answering questions. Lets not make him regret it.
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2009.01.13 15:17:00 - [45] Originally by: LaVista Vista I think it's perfectly reasonable that I tell him what I think. There is a difference between being outspoken and plain rude. Yes it sucks they didn't put it in but who knows they've learned not to put in more stuff thats not finished. They have promised a lot during the years and not always kept it so personally I'm not shocked by this decision. As they responded it was a matter of choosing to dedicate the resources to certain fields and this part got left out. Software developers are by nature over ambitious and with time in short it makes sense to leave out the stuff with unclear goals. (My gods, wished they did that 5yr ago)

CCP Explorer	Posted - 2009.01.15 00:40:00 - [46] Originally by: Rodj Blake I'd like the ability to ban my enemies from buying my stuff whilst giving discounts to my friends. If they can put that sort of functionality into Storefronts, I'll be a happy bunny. To give you more insight into why we pulled Storefronts: Two of the initial goals of Storefronts were to allow players to easily get expert fitted ships, all in one place. In the analysis we determined that the "expert fitted" part would not have driven traffic to Storefronts since players could have just viewed the offers to get fitting ideas and then bought everything on the market, but there was no real dissemination of ideas. So we are working on other ways to solve the "how should I fit my ship" part. The "all in one place" was valid but we were not happy with the implementation and there are other ways to address that part that would be more elegant. What we discovered in the development process is that players wanted more something along the lines of "members only" stores for corps and alliances. For example, being able to not sell to their enemies, or sell corp or alliance members ships at mineral prices (possibly even in exchange for minerals and not ISK) but to others at full price. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games

Sidrat Flush Caldari Life is Experience Rally Against Evil	Posted - 2009.01.15 01:02:00 - [47] Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Rodj Blake I'd like the ability to ban my enemies from buying my stuff whilst giving discounts to my friends. If they can put that sort of functionality into Storefronts, I'll be a happy bunny. To give you more insight into why we pulled Storefronts: Two of the initial goals of Storefronts were to allow players to easily get expert fitted ships, all in one place. In the analysis we determined that the "expert fitted" part would not have driven traffic to Storefronts since players could have just viewed the offers to get fitting ideas and then bought everything on the market, but there was no real dissemination of ideas. So we are working on other ways to solve the "how should I fit my ship" part. The "all in one place" was valid but we were not happy with the implementation and there are other ways to address that part that would be more elegant. What we discovered in the development process is that players wanted more something along the lines of "members only" stores for corps and alliances. For example, being able to not sell to their enemies, or sell corp or alliance members ships at mineral prices (possibly even in exchange for minerals and not ISK) but to others at full price. The first paragraph reads like a Flavour of a month fit that would probably get nerfed 5 months later, and the second paragraph is like...you think, or you've had replies that imply corp members don't talk to each other. As a CEO (not the best or the smartest but I have a great team who enjoy playing the game so it's nice to log in) - Storefronts represented the ability for a small corp to display their wares and rare finds. This could lead to two things obviously war decs but apart from that it was where empire "only" corporations that didn't have alternative characters in foreign parts to fund the chance to promote themselves to any party that wants to buy e.g researched bpc's or a pve fitted command ship or whatever. In brief - Storefronts COULD allow the new players to see which corp was active and clued in on the goings on in EVE, be it those that sell stuff and those that buy from the same few corps/alliances. Damn wall of text, I'm sorry and it may be wordy but I needed to write it, hope you take it on board and realise the fullest extent it COULD be used for. Yes a public purchaser list why not?
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.01.15 01:25:00 - [48] Quote: that players wanted more something along the lines of "members only" stores for corps and alliances. For example, being able to not sell to their enemies, or sell corp or alliance members ships at mineral prices (possibly even in exchange for minerals and not ISK) but to others at full price. yes please :(

CCP t0rfifrans	Posted - 2009.01.15 01:30:00 - [49] Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Rodj Blake I'd like the ability to ban my enemies from buying my stuff whilst giving discounts to my friends. If they can put that sort of functionality into Storefronts, I'll be a happy bunny. To give you more insight into why we pulled Storefronts: Two of the initial goals of Storefronts were to allow players to easily get expert fitted ships, all in one place... One thing I might add is that in Apocrypha it's very likely that you will be able to save fittings, export to XML, share with friends and corp mates etc. I say very likely because we plan to do it, provided other more high profile things get done and polished.

MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.01.15 01:38:00 - [50] Edited by: MotherMoon on 15/01/2009 01:40:33 Edited by: MotherMoon on 15/01/2009 01:39:02 Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Rodj Blake I'd like the ability to ban my enemies from buying my stuff whilst giving discounts to my friends. If they can put that sort of functionality into Storefronts, I'll be a happy bunny. To give you more insight into why we pulled Storefronts: Two of the initial goals of Storefronts were to allow players to easily get expert fitted ships, all in one place... One thing I might add is that in Apocrypha it's very likely that you will be able to save fittings, export to XML, share with friends and corp mates etc. I say very likely because we plan to do it, provided other more high profile things get done and polished. The following is just me ranting about stuff I want to see :P one step closer to being able to sell fitted ships on the market maybe? or have a buy ship and fittings all at same time based on something you've saved? Bying all the same mods again and again is boring. I would gladly pay someone 10% more than the ship and mod cost if they could fit it out for me and then I could take it ot and fly it. or if I could just simply re-buy a ship plus fittings of my choice. fitting out ships is fun when you have free time, but sometimes you just want to have a (or someone elses) fitted ship already to go so the fleet can mobilize faster. bt yeah wouldn't it be cool if people were encouraged to fit out ships before putting them up for sale to make some extra money? Quote: "expert fitted" part would not have driven traffic to Storefronts since players could have just viewed the offers to get fitting ideas and then bought everything on the marke you under esitmate the pain that is fitting out the same ship again and again. In a game where dying is part of the game there should be a system in place. sure you CAN do this with contracts but... that isn't the same as having a new market window... maybe... you can put up a fitted ship for sale the same way you'd pt up a normal ship? and then while looking at market details for ships on the market, there cold be a new tab, fitted ships. Which would show prices for all fitted ships in the system and what station they were at. like normal items but yo can only see those in your system. This system would not allow for you to put your name on the ship, it wold still be an open market, with much market PvP. but yeah, I think it would spice up the market if we could pick out fitted ships in the normal market.
Sidrat Flush Caldari Life is Experience Rally Against Evil	Posted - 2009.01.15 01:55:00 - [51] I understand people like ships fitted a certain way. I realise that a LOT of people like the same fittings. If you include a generic cookie cutter copy and paste purchase these items in one go button we won't have to worry about FOTM, it'll be on a weekly basis. People can already sell fitted and rig'd ships on contracts and that's great for a PVE fit. What I was hoping for was a way of attracting "brand" loyalty via the Storefront. Possibly because it's cheaper but more often than not it's because it's located in a system/area and that particular corp has the items you need in stock when you need it. The alternative is private contracts, which may or may not be honoured on either end and is a totally different mechanic. -------------------------- Life is about memories the more the better.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.01.15 02:08:00 - [52] With T3 ships inbound, I find it completely backward that CCP didn't put in storefronts. It's pretty obvious the manufactured ships won't be available on the public market, and I simply can't comprehend how the contracts system will handle the new ship combinations for sale. Improve Market Competition!
Darth Felin	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:18:00 - [53] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs With T3 ships inbound, I find it completely backward that CCP didn't put in storefronts. It's pretty obvious the manufactured ships won't be available on the public market, and I simply can't comprehend how the contracts system will handle the new ship combinations for sale. Same for me, but they already stated that there will be special improvements to the market to handle T3.
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:20:00 - [54] Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans One thing I might add is that in Apocrypha it's very likely that you will be able to save fittings, export to XML, share with friends and corp mates etc. I say very likely because we plan to do it, provided other more high profile things get done and polished. While you are doing this, add the ability to save overview settings to XML and share with friends, corp mates, alts.

CCP t0rfifrans	Posted - 2009.01.15 22:04:00 - [55] Originally by: Lord Fitz Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans One thing I might add is that in Apocrypha it's very likely that you will be able to save fittings, export to XML, share with friends and corp mates etc. I say very likely because we plan to do it, provided other more high profile things get done and polished. While you are doing this, add the ability to save overview settings to XML and share with friends, corp mates, alts. Yep, that would be cool, it's a popular request, I recall it's on the CSM list for things most wanted. We will do this if time allows, again, not promising anything. ( I should be in politics )


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