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Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2009.01.19 14:58:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Shar Tegral
Via the secure trading method, the timecard does not change hands at all. If you think so, you've been fooled.
- Seller inserts timecode for Buyer.
- Buyer accepts and is charged for the timecode.
- Timecode is applied, not changes hands, but is immediately applied to Buyer's account.
- Seller receives isk.
Might I suggest, in the future, that you know that which you choose to talk about. Might keep you from self-owning.
It could be me, but what I think he was hinting at was that some folks make false buy and sell offers (in the forums) and then 'fill' them with alts. Nothing was actually bought or sold, but no one really knows that except the person that did it (the rest can guess). That is a pretty effective and low cost way of manipulating the prices in the forum, it just takes a bit of time. Not even against the forum rules (as far as I know)...
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Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2009.01.19 15:00:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Sikozu Prioris
Who says a timecard even has to change hands. So long as it appears to have. If this happens enough times then it will look like prices are falling/rising as there "appears" to be sales.
Via the secure trading method, the timecard does not change hands at all. If you think so, you've been fooled.
- Seller inserts timecode for Buyer.
- Buyer accepts and is charged for the timecode.
- Timecode is applied, not changes hands, but is immediately applied to Buyer's account.
- Seller receives isk.
Might I suggest, in the future, that you know that which you choose to talk about. Might keep you from self-owning.
He was explaining the "fake" sell or buy posts heavily used in the forums to give a feeling of the current price.
Ie GTC are selling for 350mil, Somebody wants to sell 20 but wants 400mil+.
That person will then make numerous WTS posts asking for 400mil with several alts and then post in his own thread with different alts "Ill Take It" and Send to "MY Alt 1 2 and 3" etc.
If most of the first page is filled with these post, a new buyer usually looks at the first page see lots of WTS @ 400mil assumes its the going rate and pays it.
This works in revrse but not so well as most buyers want the code now where as most seller want as much as they can get and will match the higher price when trying to sell.
In doing so no GTC is ever sold but a casual look at the forum can be deceptive.
I have used this a few times to reduce the cost of my GTC but the ammount of posting required and then waiting for the inobservant seller posed too much of a problem.
Also with Gold Farmers willing to pay anything this method works very well for moving the price upwards.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2009.01.19 17:04:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Midas Man
He was explaining the "fake" sell or buy posts heavily used in the forums to give a feeling of the current price.
Hmmmm, guess I need to know what I'm talking about then. And this is actually a "worthwhile" activity? Hmmmm... is all I can say. |
Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.19 17:48:00 -
[64]
I'm shocked the fake timecode spam posts didn't get you a forum vacation, at the very least. It's definitely borderline GTC scamming at that point, something CCP has reportedly not been very fond of.
Personally I draw the line at that level of 100% out of game metagaming.
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Iridescent Moon
Caldari
Iridescent Dawn
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Posted - 2009.01.19 18:50:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Hmmmm, guess I need to know what I'm talking about then. And this is actually a "worthwhile" activity? Hmmmm... is all I can say.[/justify]
Shar, your just not sneaky and underhanded enough to think that way.  I have thought about doing that myself but it made me feel dirty.
To Clair, if CCP felt that that PLEXs were being used to launder RMT they could remove them from the game. All that needs to happen is to remove the ability to break GTCs and make the PLEX. They could leave the existing PLEXs and the system of use in game. Over time they would be used up. Kind of bad PR to do a turnaround like that but on the flip side they get to say it was to stick it to RMT dealers and most of the player base would be happy with that. |
Sikozu Prioris
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:15:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Hmmmm, guess I need to know what I'm talking about then. And this is actually a "worthwhile" activity? Hmmmm... is all I can say.
 , Indeed.
Originally by: Clair Bear
I'm shocked the fake timecode spam posts didn't get you a forum vacation, at the very least. It's definitely borderline GTC scamming at that point, something CCP has reportedly not been very fond of.
Personally I draw the line at that level of 100% out of game metagaming.
It is certainly NOT borderline GTC scamming. The poster simply ignores any response in the thread he makes. He then uses other alts to fake buy and then confirm the "fake" trade. No-one gets any offers or anything. If people choose to pay the price that it is manipulated to then that is their free choice.
Its the same as people bidding on their own auctions in the sell orders to try and boost the price.
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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.19 20:15:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Sikozu Prioris
Its the same as people bidding on their own auctions in the sell orders to try and boost the price.
With one minor, subtle yet all-important difference. Actions with in-game items sold in-game for game currency are one thing. Because it is a game.
Doing the same kind of thing out of game, using out of game mechanics, for out-of game items bought with out-of game currency crosses the border from gaming to ... something else. Which may or may not even violate laws in some locales.
Once the item irrevocably crosses over into the game -- have at it. While it's still in meatspace this kind of crap is just uncool to the extreme.
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Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2009.01.20 10:43:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Midas Man on 20/01/2009 10:43:35
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Hmmmm, guess I need to know what I'm talking about then. And this is actually a "worthwhile" activity? Hmmmm... is all I can say.[/justify]
I was annoyed with the ammount it was happening the other way to rise the price and it was working. I was simply using posting privaledges on my alts to make "WTB 60 Day GTC 350 mil" numerous times. A few others were doing the same and I managed to get a few sold to me at what I believe the "Correct" price was.
And no it wasn't worthwhile tbh the 50 mil or so I saved per card could have been made far easier and quicker in game. I tried adjust the price to what I percieved as normal level's nothing wrong with that. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2009.01.20 10:55:00 -
[69]
Well I can totally relate to fighting the good fight kind of thinking. As to this thread, my only thought is that Plexes will turn out to be a very big mistake. Immense actually.
Prior to the secure trading system GTC resale was possible. It created an overmarket that operated in a cartel like fashion. This was destroyed, almost overnight, by the "illegality" of GTC resale. Of course this put a reasonable ceiling on GTC activity.
Now, in one feel swoop, CCP has reinstated GTC resales via Plex. The impact of this is going to be felt for a good long while until CCP realizes that they oopsed, yet again, in their seeking the "cool" factor.
Sometimes I truly do wonder if they think about collateral effect some, if at all. I mean they always say they think about balance and effect but when you look at the sheer stupidity of their genius at times...
Well, one does have to wonder. |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.01.20 13:23:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Sometimes I truly do wonder if they think about collateral effect some, if at all. I mean they always say they think about balance and effect but when you look at the sheer stupidity of their genius at times...
Well, one does have to wonder.
I think to often, many developers, ccp not excluded obviously, tend to get myiopic when focusing on what seems like a good change. Very often the goal they set and the changes they make, are on the surface at least, a good thing for the game they are working on. But because of the tunnel vision that many project leads get in 'getting the job done and out the door' the residual effects are as apparent.
Every dev house suffers from it, and really its not just limited to gaming houses. Ask any project manager, its a problem you have to manage on a near constant basis. Not loosing site of the forest while you attempt to cut down a few trees. |
Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2009.01.20 17:42:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Well I can totally relate to fighting the good fight kind of thinking. As to this thread, my only thought is that Plexes will turn out to be a very big mistake. Immense actually.
Prior to the secure trading system GTC resale was possible. It created an overmarket that operated in a cartel like fashion. This was destroyed, almost overnight, by the "illegality" of GTC resale. Of course this put a reasonable ceiling on GTC activity.
Now, in one feel swoop, CCP has reinstated GTC resales via Plex. The impact of this is going to be felt for a good long while until CCP realizes that they oopsed, yet again, in their seeking the "cool" factor.
Now Shar, I'm sure this will surprise and disappoint you, but I'm too lazy to figure out what you meant by PLEXes being a big mistake. Please elaborate.
Quote:
Sometimes I truly do wonder if they think about collateral effect some, if at all. I mean they always say they think about balance and effect but when you look at the sheer stupidity of their genius at times...
Well, one does have to wonder.
I think the dirty secret to CCP's ideas about "balance" is that CCP is a full-blown subscriber to the Broken Window fallacy. Except when CCP "breaks windows", they generate RL revenue (as everyone eagerly scurries to exploit the new FotM).
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Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:03:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Sometimes I truly do wonder if they think about collateral effect some, if at all. I mean they always say they think about balance and effect but when you look at the sheer stupidity of their genius at times...
How long have you been playing EVE? You should know better ;-)
EVE is one big experiment, and the toons aren't the test rats, the nerds behind the monitors are. I can just imagine the whole CCP upper echelon standing around the pool with beers in their hands (while watching their latest victim... employee taking a swim in their private shark tank), "Let's do something truly vicious! We'll make sure that folks can still play EVE for 'free', but introduce the 0.01 isk market into the sale/buying of GTCs.". Oveur: "Beeeeeeer! More Beeeeeer!". Everyone grins evilly, and takes another sip of their beer (with a big villainous grin on their faces)...
Let's just say that hindsight is 50-50. The armchair generals always know how to win the wars, and "De beste stuurlui staan aan wal.".
I personally think that the PLEXes are a great idea, I just find it a shame that they aren't movable. Sure, prices have risen on a daily basis that last couple of weeks, I don't really mind. Not that I can afford them forever at this rate, but it changes the way the game is played and that is what makes EVE so interesting to me (and keeps it interesting even after three years into the game). For all it's faults, EVE is still the MMO I spent the most time with, i expect the same is true for you. So how about just doing away with the EVE/CCP bashing? Even the folks at CCP have feelings you know, and one of the reasons they bloody drink so much is because YOU say bad things about them, they actually feel you think bad things about them! Ah! There, you did it again, you made another GM cry ;-p |
nether void
Caldari
Shrapnel Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:09:00 -
[73]
Welcome to scam online. Everything is becoming one giant scam. lol
I wonder if 0.0 alliances could somehow fake a war, and make money off of it. |
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