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Blastil
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Posted - 2009.01.15 02:40:00 -
[1]
With a lack of real Original posts with well thought out premises, rational response and debate, and an excessive amount of whining, I decided to make a post of awesome just for you.
Recent current events with 0.0 and the political situation have certainly formed powerblocs, this cannot be denied. However, the nature of those power bloc's seems stagnant, unchanging. We've been fighting the same war for 5 years starting in 2004 with BoB vs Goon. POS mechanics seem to favor large, well established alliances with massive resources and a large BS fleets to back it up.
It also pushes out carebears and renters thanks to complicated NAP and standings procedure that makes it nearly impossible for anyone to enter into powerboc space without a lengthy 2 weeks of modifying standings to entities in 0.0. For this reason it also encourages blobbing, and simply merging into an existing parent alliance, further removing individuality and free market spirit in 0.0.
I'd like to see some serious opinions on tools and methods to help fix this.
I suggest expanding tools for alliances to operate their own space with their own player-enforcable laws. |
Diek Ran
Amarr
Autonums
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Posted - 2009.01.15 02:45:00 -
[2]
Is the debate gonna be about the recent events in 0.0 or about the exquisiteness of your post?  |
Blastil
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Posted - 2009.01.15 02:47:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Diek Ran
Is the debate gonna be about the recent events in 0.0 or about the exquisiteness of your post?
both, if it so pleaseth thee. |
Last Dalek
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Posted - 2009.01.15 03:14:00 -
[4]
0.0 is CLOSED. If your corp wants to come out here you need to merge with an established and known 0.0 corp. Their is no path to 0.0 for new corps (unless you're known 0.0 players with the resources to back it up). Don't even THINK about trying to take space if you're not part of a powerbloc. Every single alliance that has tried for the past two years has been destroyed by the existing powerblocs.
Get it through your thick head, 0.0 if for the elite. You are not welcome out here. Go away. |
Lui Kai
Logistics Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.01.15 03:18:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Last Dalek
0.0 is CLOSED. If your corp wants to come out here you need to merge with an established and known 0.0 corp. Their is no path to 0.0 for new corps (unless you're known 0.0 players with the resources to back it up). Don't even THINK about trying to take space if you're not part of a powerbloc. Every single alliance that has tried for the past two years has been destroyed by the existing powerblocs.
Get it through your thick head, 0.0 if for the elite. You are not welcome out here. Go away.
Or, alternatively, start in NPC 0.0 - build your strength and numbers there, then try to deserve the space you'd like to claim. |
Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2009.01.15 03:23:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 15/01/2009 03:25:22
fail forum fu 101. |
Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2009.01.15 03:25:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 15/01/2009 03:25:45
Quote:
It also pushes out carebears and renters thanks to complicated NAP and standings procedure that makes it nearly impossible for anyone to enter into powerboc space without a lengthy 2 weeks of modifying standings to entities in 0.0. For this reason it also encourages blobbing, and simply merging into an existing parent alliance, further removing individuality and free market spirit in 0.0.
Coming under that category, throwing away my distaste for 0.0 alliances for a moment, the issue I've always hit is that I cannot say "Hey guys, you've got plenty of unused space, mind if I join your alliance for a small monthly fee" because a "small monthly fee" is actually an exorbinant bill fuelled mostly by paranoia and the desire to fill the Alliance executors pocket in addition to a massive list of duties and responsibilities which quite frankly isn't why I play the game, let alone the fact you want to take my ISK *AND* you want me to unquestioningly serve? Yeah right.
As an individual wanting to go into a 0.0 alliance body and use their space I'm seen far to much as a security risk, which I find quite ironic with the barrage of name-calling high-sec carebears receive about being 'too scared of losing stuff'.
Cutting a long story short? I just wish alliances could secure their systems, assets and information far more easily, but with the obvious caveat that it become incredibly expensive to maintain. While I could be a spy, no amount of information would be able to change the fact that an enemy *just cannot penetrate* a key alliance system, meaning that letting little bears like me in to give them a small monthly fee on something they're earning nothing through becomes somewhat of a reality.
Quote:
Get it through your thick head, 0.0 if for the elite. You are not welcome out here. Go away.
Power trippers with enough brainless pets to keep feeding their pockets rather than the elite tbqfh. |
McTard
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Posted - 2009.01.15 03:33:00 -
[8]
Quote:
I'd like to see some serious opinions on tools and methods to help fix this.
You're making the wild assumption that CCP doesnt like the current setup, and that they think there's a problem.
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wickedpheonix
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Posted - 2009.01.15 03:40:00 -
[9]
Simple solution - put more null-sec systems in the game, and set a logarithmic restriction on territory growth (i.e. if you control a small number of systems, then you can attempt to capture many more systems, if you control a HUGE block of space then it will be harder for you to expand).
Otherwise, just make it easier to lose and gain territory, so that smaller corps can make a small push into the holdings of bigger alliances. What I think the OP is trying to say, is make territorial politics more fluid.
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Lui Kai
Logistics Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.01.15 03:52:00 -
[10]
I speak here as someone who was in an Alliance that got kicked out of 0.0. Brutally.
I also speak as someone who attempted to start their own 0.0 based corporation and failed. Horribly.
I like the 0.0 situation as it is.
You want increased difficulty as space held increases? There already is - more entry points, more people needed fueling POS, more outposts that you have to defend.
You want space where you can just go and carebear it up for an actually reasonable fee? CVA already does this in Providence. You want to do it in good 0.0? Go to NPCs and learn to defend yourself while carebearing it up.
You want your small alliance to be able to take and hold a constellation, or even a single system? WORK for it, work hard, and make your goal realistic. You're NOT going to be able to claim a Dyspo moon with a 3 corp, 90 man alliance. You're NOT going to be able to take over a -1.0 system right next door to a holding alliance. You're NOT going to be able to put up an Outpost without drawing a lot of attention. You're small - work within those bounds - find a backwater system that nobody uses, put up your POS to live out of, and dig in to defend it. Most alliances will decide you're not worth the trouble if you fight tooth and nail for that one backward system.
You want to claim Dyspo moons, build outposts, claim low true sec systems? Then you need the sheer manpower to do so. Those are things done by player run Empires. Not Joe's Friendly Mining Corp (We accept Trials!) |
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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.15 06:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lui Kai
You're small - work within those bounds - find a backwater system that nobody uses, put up your POS to live out of, and dig in to defend it.
And therein lies the problem. Why would someone want to join the small, scrappy, getting their teeth kicked in daily corp when they could simply blob it up with the big boys in comfort and luxury? Sure, you've got the rugged individualists and masochists willing to suffer. And they have NPC space to be individualistic in. But for each one of those we've got 1000 who prefer easy mode.
Anyone who's ever played counterstrike has experienced the team stacking phenomenon. Sure, it's satisfying if you pull off a counter-stack. But most of the time it's a noobs vs. vets slaughter. Which would get old if that was your eve reality day after day.
Today's 0.0 life is: you're part of a blob or you're that blob's killmail. Numbers matter most. No amount of inspirational pep talk to your present or prospective corpies is going to change that.
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Aurevoir Connard
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Posted - 2009.01.15 21:49:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Clair Bear
But most of the time it's a noobs vs. vets slaughter. Which would get old if that was your eve reality day after day.
Today's 0.0 life is: you're part of a blob or you're that blob's killmail. Numbers matter most. No amount of inspirational pep talk to your present or prospective corpies is going to change that.
[/quote
So much for trial and error and learning. If you get killed learn from it. If you get beat everyday adapt change tactics get better. If you are not doing those things you do not deserve to be in 0.0.
You also have to understand that no one survives in 0.0 alone. Ther is BoB and the GBC, there is the alliance making up the NC, even Goons have friends.
If you see an empty backwater space you set up shop in. Reach out diplomatically to those around you diplomatically. Eve can not be done alone whether it is playing solo as an individual or solo as a corp or solo as an allaince. You need others to work together, you need friends. If a big bad blob is after you find the big bad blob that doesnt like them. Then grow and become you grown big bad blob. Understand nothing happens over night in EVE it all takes time and effort(what makes this game great).
Yeah you need to scratch and claw to make it but hey that is what it is about. Talk to anyone of these alliance out there and they will tell you even several years ago they were not handed anything and had to fight for it and lose several fights to get it. Even making friends with those they are now enemies with for that help. |
Proto Tron
Luna Wolves
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Posted - 2009.01.15 22:06:00 -
[13]
to the original poster:
EVE attempts to emulate Real Life(tm). Therefore, just like in RL, the mechanics of the economies of scale rule. CCP obviously chose to allow for those mechanics to dominate. As a consequence of CCP's choice, EVE has the current political situation, just like in the RL. Perhaps, with the next expansion more null space would be available, but the first wars over it will be fought by the established players, especially if there are resources worth fighting for. |
TimMc
Gallente
Brutal Deliverance
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.15 23:34:00 -
[14]
This is like Jamaica complaining it cannot defeat USA. Simple numbers game dude, big alliance take big pieces of space and occupy them. Big guys get to choose the best space, and you exist because they let you. Only way to really get into 0.0 is to similar or numbers, or have alot of good political connections.
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar
Kernel of War
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.15 23:43:00 -
[15]
OP: It's funny, it's the exact thing I was talking about this lunch.
0.0 is not closed if you can form up a blob of an hundred (good) pilots. It's the way the game works just now, and it's sad.
The man with whom I spoked was 100% with you. He was also for putting away "99% passive" income like dyspro/promo moons.
Fetchez la vache !
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Proto Tron
Luna Wolves
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Posted - 2009.01.16 01:54:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
He was also for putting away "99% passive" income like dyspro/promo moons.
I was thinking it is more like Real Estate Income. You make a heavy investment in property, perfect your claim, periodically invest in routine maintenance and just let the isk roll in. |
Darkeen
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.16 01:57:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Darkeen on 16/01/2009 01:56:47
Originally by: Last Dalek
0.0 is CLOSED. If your corp wants to come out here you need to merge with an established and known 0.0 corp. Their is no path to 0.0 for new corps (unless you're known 0.0 players with the resources to back it up). Don't even THINK about trying to take space if you're not part of a powerbloc. Every single alliance that has tried for the past two years has been destroyed by the existing powerblocs.
Get it through your thick head, 0.0 if for the elite. You are not welcome out here. Go away.
Every time I've gone out into Zero sec I've jumped 42 jumps (give or take 4) and only ever met a couple of rats on gates (yes they were rats - pre QR).
I think I'll make an alt and go out and see how far I can travel aroudn zero sec before I get podded... Granted ppl probably wont care about a 2 day old char in a T1 frigate or rookie ship, but it will be a test at least to test your CLOSED theory...
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Fyrewyre
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Posted - 2009.01.16 02:10:00 -
[18]
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Amberly Coteaz
Amarr
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.01.16 02:16:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Anyone who's ever played counterstrike has experienced the team stacking phenomenon. Sure, it's satisfying if you pull off a counter-stack. But most of the time it's a noobs vs. vets slaughter. Which would get old if that was your eve reality day after day.
Real griefers counterstack. Nothing is more satisfying then ruining a smug bunch of berks game with a team half filled with newbies 
I miss natural selection  |
Fyrewyre
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Posted - 2009.01.16 02:24:00 -
[20]
*snip, please do not post images directly into threads, especially those with nothing to do with the topic - Mitnal* |
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Ivana Drake
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Posted - 2009.01.16 02:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Fyrewyre
dumb
You do seem to love that chicken |
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