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t3 ships is confusing me, why not make T3 the new T1?

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Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.01.16 00:46:00 - [31] This is what happens when you press rewind on the dvd rewinder!
Vabjekf	Posted - 2009.01.16 01:09:00 - [32] how about you can fit entire ships in the rig slot of a ship thats a class higher than them? Have to show up in game, naturally.
Icarus Flame Amarr Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2009.01.16 01:57:00 - [33] Originally by: Vabjekf how about you can fit entire ships in the rig slot of a ship thats a class higher than them? Have to show up in game, naturally. HIRE THIS MAN
Fyrewyre	Posted - 2009.01.16 02:10:00 - [34] Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Fyrewyre	Posted - 2009.01.16 02:28:00 - [35] ------------------------------------------- "Never let anyone stop you having fun" Mad Snoz, leeds
Napro Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.16 06:41:00 - [36] I still dont get the customization thingy Is it just for looks or we will be able to add hardpoints to our ships?
Sedious Bloke	Posted - 2009.01.16 06:46:00 - [37] I think you guys are missunderestamating him Pirates In Mie EvE?!?!!!
Jukhta Mein Domini Umbrus R.U.R.	Posted - 2009.01.16 06:53:00 - [38] I agree. Customisable ships should be the norm. It should have been in the first place.
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.01.16 09:42:00 - [39] Customizable ships are already the norm. What do you think the hi/med/lo slots and later rigs and even scripts are for? And it makes no sense to have had that in the beginning as the T3 level of advanced customization adds a lot of design complexity. It helps to have years of experience with T1 and T2 ship designs before designing this new level Would you have prefered EVE to come out a years later, by then possibly bancrupt or with flawed designs because they couldn't handle this level of complexity right from the start? Making a T2 ship by slapping a few extra parts on T1 is misunderstanding the idea. T2 variants are based on T1 hulls - but are much more advanced ships overall. You don't get a 2008 Mercedes out of a 1975 model by slapping on a different stereo and better lamps. There are changes in the motor, transmission, wiring, brakes, materials etc... It looks very similar - but is a totally different car. Using a Rifter hull as basis for a T2 variant is a simplified abstraction during the build process - but immersion-wise it does not mean that they really take a T1 base and just switch a few bits here and there. There seems to be the usual amount of jumping to conclusions and speculation-taken-as-fact regarding T3. From what I gathered from the presentation so far T3 gets you more variation during the build process. I don't expect the final ship to be changable in that way. That would mean that producers are free to "design" new ship classes (based on a fixed number of compartment variations). I have no solid info where they will be power-wise compared to T1/T2 - but I would expect them to be overall similar to T2 or somewhat better. Prices will depend a lot on what materials are needed and how rare these are. EVE is a very free economy. Prices fall quickly to cost plus acceptable margin as long as supply is scalable. Unless necessary production skills are very very expensive or insanely long to train there will be plenty competing producers within weeks after release. Some will follow what happens on Sisi and have everything prepared so they can build T3 on patch-day +whatever days needed to train new skills. T1 should not be removed. Besides many T1 ships still being fine and good bang for the buck - they are needed for T2 to be better. T2 is only good because they have something cheaper to be better than. And in many situations the T1 variant makes more sense. If you're primaried in a fleet battle - you go poof - don't matter that much (few seconds) if you fly a T1 or T2 ship. But for the cost of a T2 ship that gave you a bit extra damage or a few seconds more to explode you can have several T1 ships ready to rejoin the fight quickly. As long as the T2 fleet doesn't get a qualitative advantage in controlling distance and speed so that the T1 fleet can't really engage while getting reduced a T1 fleet will probably win over a t2 fleet in a prolonged battle for a given amount of isk. That would be even worse if Pilot number wasn't the limit it is. Value wise you get 20+ Kestrels for 1 opposing Manticore. The first volley would perhaps instapop 3 Kestrels - but then the Manti would explode and you are left with 17 Kestrels on the field. Extreme example though. Less pronounced with the BS sized ships. p.s. ok, ok - I oversimplified as the Manticore can fire its CMs from ranges that are beyond max range for a Kestrel - so the Kestrels would need a way to warp-in close enough to the Manti. :-) But that does illustrate the point I tried to make above. T2 can be a qualitative or just a quantative advantage. In a fleet battle the simple quantative advantage of T2 over T1 often isn't worth the extra isk. The qualitative - you can hit - the others can't -. would be. Depends on situation. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
ghost st	Posted - 2009.01.16 10:18:00 - [40] T3 will be interesting. Any good pvper knows about almost every ship in the game, what its roles are, what it does, and how it does it. And combat decisions rely on the ability to judge what your opponents are capable of. T3 should (if done right) throw this out the window, and make things alot more interesting. T3 will allow for alot more specialization, at the cost of versatility (at least in its initial form). T3 will be able to perform one role better than its T1 or T2 counterparts, but at the cost of being able to do other things outside of its primary role. It will also put more power in the hands of industrialists, and make r&d meaningful. Instead of industrialists just trying to churn out ships as efficiently and quickly as possible (as with t1 and t2) it will be up to them to develop these specialized platforms, through research (involving trial and error, etc). T3 manufacturers will not only have to worry about producing these ships quickly and efficiently, but also making the ship itself better at its role. A t2-esque skillset should be required to pilot these things, as well as more skills for the industrialists in order to research and build them.
Scarlet Pimpdaddy Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:11:00 - [41] Originally by: Makach'Mouchkil Edited by: Makach''Mouchkil on 15/01/2009 20:25:05 What I mean is that all ships in eve should be diverse like T3 ships. I wonder who will use T1, T2 ships any more when T3 come? I sincerely mean that T3 is what all ships should be in eve, in terms of customization. T3 Should be the new T1 and T2 should be an upgraded version of that. update: what I mean: T3 is fully customizable. All ships in the universe should be fully customizable, so why not scrap the idea of T3 and make our existing ships customizable. mumbles... fcking noob... mumble, mumble*
Mithfindel Gallente Zenko Group	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:34:00 - [42] I assume the point of the OP was to "make it possible to pick stats on your T1 ships as you're supposed to be able to have a do-it-yourself T3 ship". Now, there's one very, very important point to consider: Don't fix what ain't broken. If those new ships work, personally I have no issue if T1 ships will at one point built from components, like a Vexor needing a bigger drone bay component than the Thorax etc. but first it might be good to check if the idea works at all?
Rondo Gunn Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:35:00 - [43] To answer the OP. Because. T3 is the next uber thing to train for. The next doodad. The next fad. The next FOTM. CCP needs more subscribers. Just try to think about it for a moment. It's called filler. Hopefully it's useful filler. But whatever. Prolly be nerfed to bejeesus and back. Let's hear it for the expansion on exploration, yaaaaaaaaay!
Neamus	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:38:00 - [44] I hope that T3 ships arent only customisable during the build process or its going to be pretty crap for those of us that arent into manufacture. When I hear the words "modular ship" I envisage something that can be altered by the user, perhaps not on the fly but at least while docked. Otherwise its not really modular is it, its just a static ship preconfigured by another person, in this case not CCP but a player. If its only during the build process then the industrial side of the game will probably get a huge boost as everyone will want to be designing thier own ships, competition for resources will probably drive prices through the roof. There's no way I want other people designing my ships for me, I want to be able to change them to suit my purposes MYSELF.
stadshage Caldari Monkey Universe Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:40:00 - [45] while i get what the op wants or is saying that all ships in eve should be like t3 don't think this the right way to go there should be a time to infest in the cool stuff if ya can get everything good or cool the moment you make your acc or 6 months later then ya might as well play the game that shall not be named
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:43:00 - [46] I wish they'd release more info on it. It would help t3 stuff appear quicker if the industrialist knew what skills to train. Just a quick little checklist so that they can have the right prerequisites for any new skills. Same for the combat pilots, so there is a market for the industrialist ;) Rather than new skills I'd almost prefer to see better utilization of the skills we have. More skills mean even greater time for new players to be competitive.
Marcus Xavier Minmatar Xavier Institute for Higher Learning	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:45:00 - [47] Originally by: Jmanis Catharg Originally by: Marcus Xavier T3 will be the new fraction ship. I see what you did there Alex Raptos just fails,,, Alex will be George to my Gracie.... or Abbott to my Costello. Or Dean Martin to my Jerry Lewis.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:46:00 - [48] Edited by: Celeste Coeval on 16/01/2009 11:46:10 Originally by: Makach'Mouchkil Edited by: Makach''Mouchkil on 15/01/2009 20:25:05 What I mean is that all ships in eve should be diverse like T3 ships. I wonder who will use T1, T2 ships any more when T3 come? I sincerely mean that T3 is what all ships should be in eve, in terms of customization. T3 Should be the new T1 and T2 should be an upgraded version of that. update: what I mean: T3 is fully customizable. All ships in the universe should be fully customizable, so why not scrap the idea of T3 and make our existing ships customizable. what you want is called t3...it's just a label for categorization...you know?
Makach'Mouchkil Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.16 13:20:00 - [49] well I'm talking about the ship look. it's something gorgeous, personal introduced with t3 - you design how your ship will be assembled and how it will be viewed by others. why can't we have that with t1 ships? why can't we change the look of our t1 ships? we should be able to do that with our t1 ships and just scrap the whole t3 thing. hejebus, we arn't even allowed to put a image on our ships today and now with t3 CCP gives you the opportunity to decide how the ship is put together.
ghost st	Posted - 2009.01.16 15:02:00 - [50] Originally by: Neamus I hope that T3 ships arent only customisable during the build process or its going to be pretty crap for those of us that arent into manufacture. When I hear the words "modular ship" I envisage something that can be altered by the user, perhaps not on the fly but at least while docked. Otherwise its not really modular is it, its just a static ship preconfigured by another person, in this case not CCP but a player. If its only during the build process then the industrial side of the game will probably get a huge boost as everyone will want to be designing thier own ships, competition for resources will probably drive prices through the roof. There's no way I want other people designing my ships for me, I want to be able to change them to suit my purposes MYSELF. Then you better start training those indy skillz No eft-whoring out t3 ships for you
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.01.16 15:24:00 - [51] Originally by: Alex Raptos Originally by: Marcus Xavier T3 will be the new faction ship. faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction faction ITS FACTION It's "IT'S" The Ghost-training vote thread
Colonel Santiago Gallente The Crimson Kiss	Posted - 2009.01.16 16:55:00 - [52] Not only will we get fully assembled T3 ships on the market, but we will also be able to buy the differnt sections. Even with assembled T3 ships one can dissasemble the ship, resell the parts or buy diffrent parts of the same sections to be able to have it rebuilt to there own specifications or what may be in demand on markets. So in other words if one pilots a T3 ship they get comfortable with, but want to maybe get it to go faster. Simply have it dissasembeled and reassembled with another propulsion part... It will be very intresting to see how these diffrent setups turn out...
Pichonsita Caldari FILTHY MINKY CORP	Posted - 2009.01.16 17:25:00 - [53] i dont know u guys but when t3 is out im gona make a banana ship and im gona ride it :D damm that sounds g4y
Rex Lashar Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.16 17:37:00 - [54] You're not very bright if you think "lego ships" equates to fully 100% customizable. Modules didn't do that, and neither did rigs. All they've done here is used the basic rig mechanic of tradeoffs (gain one thing, lose another) as the foundation. You're not going to be building an uber pimp ship that can shield tank while it armor tank ecm-drone-missile deaths the enemy and fires a tachyon broadside into your fleet at 8km/s just before it doomsdays everything and opens a portal to jove space. In other words, you're even less bright if you think that complete customization is a GOOD thing. Good gameplay and combat comes from the ship differences and limitations. Both of these have been diluted extremely in the past five years - and T3 will presumably make it worse. For what? I don't recall hearing about any new combat mechanics. It's just another level of complexity that will force competitive pvpers to spend even more time in EFT, playing "rock, paper, caldari".
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2009.01.16 17:51:00 - [55] Originally by: Glengrant Prices will depend a lot on what materials are needed and how rare these are. EVE is a very free economy. Prices fall quickly to cost plus acceptable margin as long as supply is scalable. Unless necessary production skills are very very expensive or insanely long to train there will be plenty competing producers within weeks after release. Some will follow what happens on Sisi and have everything prepared so they can build T3 on patch-day +whatever days needed to train new skills. I think you underestimate how hard it will be to find the components required. They're changing exploration, and the wormholes will be the ultimate 'jackpot hole'. Did you ever even see the fanfest video that showed the mission tree route that 'might' end you up with a wormhole at the end? Now imagine how hard finding those things doing exploration will be. Ever checked the skill requirements for 'Wormhole Manipulator' certificate? Which might very well be a foreshadowing of the required skills just to stabilize the wormhole. My prediction; First few will be built within 2-4 weeks, with general availability first after a few months.
Feilamya Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.01.16 18:32:00 - [56] Originally by: Jukhta Mein I agree. Customisable ships should be the norm. It should have been in the first place. It should, and it shouldn't. Customisability is good, but making every ship totall different from every other ship is not. Customisability should be split between the pilot and the builder of the ship, so that pilot can customize some but not all aspects and the builder can customize the remaining aspects. Also, customisation should be expensive. It should cost a lot more to build 100 different custom ships than 100 ships with the same custom setup. Mass production of ships of the same kind, on the other hand, should be almost as cheap as building T1 ships. You will need to sell a large number of your ships to cover your one-time costs of customization (or sell a small number of ships for a much higher price). The point is that individually customized ships should be the exception. They should be special. Another point is that the builders probably also want to be special, like "hey, it's one of those (insert custom setup here) Ruptures made by (your name here)" or "Yesterday I met one of those new Thoraxes made by (their name here)" Right now, producers are faceless, nameless (mostly) alts who all produce some of the same kind of stuff and put it on the market. Profit margins are mathematically predictable, which is boring. Now imagine having to sell hundreds of a new custom ship type to cover your costs for designing the ship type. That would make production of custom ships risky and interesting. Custom ships could be identified with their builder or inventor.
Spurty Caldari Technologic Dance	Posted - 2009.01.16 18:43:00 - [57] Originally by: Feilamya points and stuff then THIS!!!! Custom ships could be identified with their builder or inventor. Yah, I like this. Additionally, could be stamped with the Corp logo from the manufacturer and when you are in a fleet, you get FC corp colours and something neat. Hmm sounds so simple

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